Folks we were diebolded. And its our fault. READ!

[Kerry in 04]

I Can't believe some of you think we actually lost fair and square. Everything pointed to a Kerry victory except the diebold machines.


Why do you think the repugs wouldn't allow a paper trail? Why do you think the software wasn't inspected before the election? They cheated in 2000 and 2002 why would they stop for 2004? MUCH more was at stake for them this time. They cheated and there is NO way to prove it. I feel bad for all of us who worked this hard just to have it taken away from us.


We knew they were doing this and we didn't stop them. That is why it is our fault. You HAVE to have a paper trail.

Dumbya lost last time by 500,000 votes and it was proven he lost FL through fraud and not allowing 50,000 blacks to vote.

Lets see. 2004 the democrats were fired up like I have NEVER seen before. I know tons of REPUGS who voted Kerry. I know no dems who voted Gore last time but voted dumbya this time. The new voter registrations were more dem than repug. Independents broke for Kerry. The youth broke for Kerry. Who broke for dumbya? DIEBOLD. Over 70% of the nations votes were cast on electronic machines. Diebold and its twin company owned by his bro make up 80% of the machines.


Do you really think dipshit could have won by close to 4 million votes after losing by 500,000 in 2000? NOT a chance in hell. We were screwed. Do you really think people were so impressed with his 4 years that over 8 million more voted for him this time than last time? He lost tons of voters from 2000. The only people fired up for shrub were his base. We had everyone fired up. We need a LIBERAL media damn it. Why didn't Gore go through with his?


I am so depressed. I was sick to my stomach when they said the exit polls were wrong in Ohio and Florida because that is what the white house said. I knew they stole it as soon as I heard that. The exit polls matched up fairly well everywhere except in OH and FL. BUSH gave up on Ohio a few weeks before the campaing ended because Kerry had such a big lead there. Also there is not a chance in hell Kerry was up by 5% in the exit polls in FL then dumbya wins by almost that. Off 10%? NO!

I remember tuesday they said the heavy dem areas had HUGE lines in FL and the turnout in the dem areas was 106%(They were expecting a pretty big turnout anyways) of what they expected and in the heavy repug areas the turnout was only 90 some percent of what they expected. DON'T believe the media for a second. We were FUCKED. BAD!


On top of that I am sick.:( Sorry for the book but I had to get that off my chest.

[Kerry in 04]

1. kick

[Carl Brennan]

2. Here is a topic that shows this election was stolen

It needs to be spread far and wide.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=11874#

[sendero]

3. So what?

You know and I'm pretty sure the election was stolen.

But if Mr Kerry doesn't think so, then so fucking what?

Plenty of hell has already been raised about this issue. Until we catch them red-handed or at least get a high-level allegation of fraud, we might as well be pissing up a rope.

Eventually that will happen, and I fully support the death penalty for the treason of tampering with a free election - but for now, we are screwed and the sooner we all just accept it the easier it will be to get on with our lives.

[Kerry in 04]

5. I am sure PRESIDENT KERRY knows so.

He just knows there is no proof. No paper trail. No proof.

We should have spent more time making SURE there was a paper trail.

[sendero]

9. Dude....

... people spent tons of time. You cannot solve a "problem" until it is a "problem" in this country, just as in most workplaces.

Until they get caught at it, NO AMOUNT OF "ACTIVISM" is GOING TO DO ANYTHING - short of getting on every election board, etc, etc, etc - something that is doable in a 10 year timeframe, no less.

[m berst]

13. never mind Kerry

How can he stick his neck out if we aren't taking a strong stand? Kerry's campaign was just one avenue for stopping the takeover.

[jdj]

14. are you kidding, no charges will ever be pressed, because

no one will bring them, because their cronies will kill any efforts to prosecution.

I do believe, however,that a paper ballot is something the majority of americans would support.

[Deja Q]

4. I hear ya. But Kerry proved he's no leader by bending over backwards

all too quickly.

Diebold is an OBVIOUS repuke ploy and he did not go after them with his 80,000,000 lawyers or whatever astronomical amount he claimed to have.

We were fucked all right.

If you ask me, there was a legitimate issue. But Kerry pulled a Nader as far as I'm concerned.

[Kerry in 04]

10. I PRAY they are doing a rope-a-dope.

[gcomeau]

6. Read this.

http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

Now it looks to me that those numbers are HORRIFYINGLY indicative of massive fraud in Florida using the op-scan voting machines. Can someone please verify the accuracy of these figures?

-Grant

[FubarFly]

7. Even if there wasn't fraud,

this is still an issue worth fighting for.

We can never do a statewide recount again because there is no way to securely audit the e-voting machines. This is unacceptable even if the machines work perfectly.

[mzmolly]

15. Hey FubarFly!

:hi:

I agree, we have to fight this issue so that 2004 we KNOW that our votes were tally'd.

[bagnana]

8. what are we going to do with no proof?

Without a paper trail how will be possible to show that fraud occurred? I just don't think there is anything Kerry could have done about it, other than claim something doesn't smell right, and he didn't have the popular vote behind him to support a recount demand.

[Mick Knox]

11. Play pretend with barney and blues clues

of course

[Trahurn]

12. I have been preaching this all year

As you all know that on the past two elections 2000 and 2004 that involved Bush the exit polls counts did not jive with the official totals. But every other election in my 52 years they have. It is how they call a state and the election before actual and final totals are in. Exit polls. They do not match this year and did not match in 2000 as evidenced by anyone watching Peter Jennings first awarding Florida to Gore and then having to take it back.
Plus!!! the fact the republicans either fought tooth and nail or remained totally silent on the issue of protecting our country from another 2000 by insisting on a paper trail. They had 4 years to prepare for this election and they knew they could have such a hard cover copy but they could not allow it. Funny how millions upon millions of ATM users can have individual paper receipt but can't have it or it can't be done for a democracy.
I continue to read over and over and over the article I read when it was official who the manufacturer of the E-voting or touchscreen voting machines was. I'll never forget the article quoting Diebold executives "guaranteeing" Bush a victory in 2004. First of all to say something like that is the most inappropriate thing any "neutral" machine maker could and should ever say publicly. Finally I read where Diebold executives who issued Bush this promise were busy celebrating heartily at the election they had kept there promise on. Of course no one could inspect their software. Why? We have yet another manipulated election and some of you seem to almost be happy about it. Not me. I'm a democrat.

[jdj]

16. the four years thing is a little hard to swallow for me too.

I guess the dem leadership will have to eat crow for calling everyone who didn't trust the BFEE conspiracy theories.

[Kerry in 04]

17. I agree.

[m berst]

18. broaden "we"

"I Can't believe some of you think we actually lost fair and square. Everything pointed to a Kerry victory except the diebold machines."

The "we" who lost is all of the American people, and by extension all of the people of the world, not merely Democrats or Kerry supporters. It is vitally important to keep this in mind now IMHO. Otherwise we walk into a trap - "sure you are saying this! You want your guy to win." It is so much more critical than that.

We have to build a wall between strident partisan rhetoric and talking about this theft of democracy or we will lose both battles.

[Kerry in 04]

19. kick

[Milo_Bloom]

20. The election WAS stolen, but in many more ways than one!

#1) There certainly seems to be a discrepency between exit polls in paper ballot districts and exit polls in DIEbold districts. Here is an image from robbedvoter. However, the different is only a few points, not enough in and of itself to steal the election or PROVE fraud.



Now, is the BBV really siphoning off votes? I don't think so. However, there have been MANY MANY MANY reports from people who pressed the John Kerry spot on the screen and then on the confirmation page saw that they were voting for Bush, so they were able to go back and correct it. How many people DIDN'T catch it? If the machine just "accidentally" got the wrong info 1 out of every 30 Kerry votes, most people will catch it, but some won't. And without a paper receit, they will never know they made the mistake.

#2) There are a UNSUALLY LARGE % of provisional ballots in Ohio. Reports have upwards of 150,000 provisional ballots cast. In the state of Texas, out of 7 million voters there were only 23,000 provisional ballots cast (http://66.221.25.230/04novgen.htm) In Ohio there were 155,000 cast. (http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/results/11-02-04.htm) or 2.7% of the total votes cast. How much you want to bet MOST of those are DEMS??? There were more provision ballots issued in Cuyahoga county ALONE than in ALL of Texas!!!

#3) There is this cute little chart http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm and YES, the numbers are 100% correct. Now, what does this tell us? It doesn't tell us that there was any fraud with OP-SCAN machines, because there wasn't. I pulled numbers from 1996, 2000 and 2004 and compared several counties that stood out as strange and I found something interesting. Despite people being registered as DEMS in these counties, in 2000 and 2004, they have overwhelmingly voted GOP. In 1996, not so much, although I didn't have access to registration data back that far, but the vote tallies were very even.

I have a theory about this: If you want to scam an election. You get people from your safe states to register in swing states, show up the day of the election and vote for your candidate and then go home. Now, how do you keep this stunt under the radar? HAVE THEM REGISTER IN THE OPPOSITION PARTY!! Are the DEMS really going to question when a registered Democrat comes in to vote? Probably not.

There are probably more ways that I haven't thought of and haven't come to light yet. Keep in mind that when you want to steal something, you don't do it by taking it all from one place... it is much better to spread it around and make it look like there are just a bunch of small, insignificant blips and hope no one puts it all together.

[Kerry in 04]

22. Major kick

[m berst]

21. kick

:kick:

[irancontra]

23. absolutely what I've been saying. IT WAS FRAUD.

IT WAS FRAUD.IT WAS FRAUD.IT WAS FRAUD.IT WAS FRAUD.IT WAS FRAUD.IT WAS FRAUD.IT WAS FRAUD.IT WAS FRAUD.IT WAS FRAUD.IT WAS FRAUD.IT WAS FRAUD. DO NOT FORGET 9/11. IT WAS FRAUD. DO NOT FORGET 2000.

[kc.ink]

24. DEMAND A RE-VOTE ! ! !

New election with paper ballots and all ballots counted at each polling place in front of the voters from that precinct.

[Kerry in 04]

25. RE-VOTE!!!!!

[Kerry in 04]

26. kick

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. RE-VOTE ON PAPER WITH A PEN!!!!!!

:kick:

[GreenPartyVoter]

28. We have to fix the system, BBV and otherwise

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm