If you stand for nothing, you're on your knees.

[Wat_Tyler]

What is the point of principles if they can be discarded like so much trash in order to win elections? Would you rather win singing your enemy's song, or run the risk of losing knowing you stood for what was morally right?

[Beware the Beast Man]

1. Testify!

It's time to stop pointing fingers. I know it's only three days after the election, and the shock is still fresh, but it's time to huddle up and call the next offensive play (sorry, got football on the brain). We can either continue with the headless chicken routine or work at getting these bastards out now.

[Wat_Tyler]

3. Damn right. Stand up tall, be proud, strong, and fight,

For me now, there is no border on the 49th Parallel. This is my fight too. I fight the neo-cons in Canada, and I fight them in the US.

[Donkeyboy75]

19. Celine Dion isn't a neo-con.

And what you did was still assault, brother.

[Wat_Tyler]

20. I'm basing my defence on one mitigating factor.

Her entire recorded output.

[Catfight]

25. Let's roll baby!

[davepc]

2. well we lost for the 3rd time in a row

and they're going to take everything we stand for and fought for, and spent decades building, and they're going to flush it down the toilet.

Gone. Poof.

So now we're at square one again. All that groundwork torn up.

So you go be principled and ideological to a fault and enjoy losing election after election, and leave the few of us here who want to win elections and dictate policy again let us do what we need to do.

[Wat_Tyler]

4. What, precisely am I being ideological about?

What do you suggest we run on?

[Beware the Beast Man]

6. Then start up imsotiredoflosingimgoingtoselloutmyprinciplesunderground.com

[Magrittes Pipe]

10. Yes. I'm sure we would be much better off today...

...if the abolitionists had given up after their early losses.

Damn Lincoln for freeing the slaves. :eyes:

[Wat_Tyler]

17. Lincoln was lucky Gallup wasn't polling on the matter.

[ScreamingMeemie]

5. I keep thinking back to the Civil Rights fight, and how somehow we

managed to have politicians willing to stand up so that all people would be counted as equal. What would they think of their party abandoning gays, the elderly, and women? It makes me heartsick to think of.

[Wat_Tyler]

7. Was the Union movement popular at the beginning?

How did we get the five day working week? How did we get rights for workers? We fought. We won.

[ScreamingMeemie]

12. I'm willing to hit the streets again, and drum up the support from those

people I talked to. We need to start now, before they take any more away from us.

[Wat_Tyler]

15. Right. Be visible. Be known. Make it clear to those who despair

that there are some people willing to fight, not just in your town, not just in your state, but all over the world who are willing to fight for what they believe.

[davepc]

23. Republicans pushed the Civil rights act to splinter the democratic party

don't be so naive to think we were all holier then tho and fought the good fight.

Outside of RFK and LBJ to an extent it wasn't very popular in democratic circles.

[ScreamingMeemie]

24. I'm not being naive, but we did have RFK to fight for us. All I see right

now are a lot of suggestions to just walk away. :shrug:

[MostlyLurks]

8. Please see the following thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1327162

Please post a reply to that, if you've got one. I'm genuinely looking for guidance, I think a lot of people are.

[Wat_Tyler]

13. You have to help. We have to come to solutions together.

Sure, I've got my ideas, but I'm no guru, I'm just as much in this wilderness as you are.

[terrya]

9. Amen, brother!

Completely, absolutely right.

Some people want to turn this political party into "Republican Lite" and just shut the fuck up about equal rights for ALL Americans.

Screw that. If you don't stand for what is right, you're basically worthless.

[Wat_Tyler]

16. So much of what we take for granted today was once considered impossible.

But that did not stop us.

[terrya]

18. I'm a Gay American, Wat. I'm not a second class citizen in my own country.

That is the same and simple truth. And I will not accept those who would push me to the back of the bus.

[Donkeyboy75]

21. Unfortunately, terry, that's just what you are

according to our laws, and it isn't fair. That's WHY we all need to fight together, based on our principles...not the policies that are the least objectionable to the general population. Nobody should sell out basic human rights to obtain some power. Wat has said it more eloquently than me elsewhere. :hi:

[asthmaticeog]

22. Right fucking on, terrya.

n/t

[Ripley]

11. Morning Wat!

You are right on point. The consistency I find with centrists and those weird "fiscal conservative/social liberals" I talk to, is that they want someone to stand their ground. They saw Clinton cave a lot, and man have the Dems caved in to Bush time and time again.

[Wat_Tyler]

14. Right. This is not a matter of rigid ideology or of compromise.

What it is is setting out a clear set of principles and standing by them. People will vote for a party that stands for something solid, that presents a real, vibrant alternative. Respect is earned by standing firm. Those who constantly capitulate do not get that respect.

[Catfight]

26. Let's roll baby!

[SarahB]

27. Yes and I'll say it again....

Abandoning our principles makes us appear weak which is how the right chooses to marginalize us to begin with.

We are not weak and neither are our principles. We must remain strong!