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Don't let Bob Shrum come near another election EVER AGAIN!

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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 09:35 AM
Original message
Don't let Bob Shrum come near another election EVER AGAIN!
Edited on Sat Nov-13-04 10:21 AM by fujiyama
That's all I can say. This guy has about the worst record we could find...Why do we keep using him? I had my worries about him from the begining.

Wasn't he also with Gore and Mondale and other losing candidates?

The party needs a house cleaning. Now wouldn't be a bad time.

On Edit, I'd like to add a link to this article:

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?pt=%2FWAOQoLsGzQE5FcT6qGE0x%3D%3D

Maybe later I'll clip some parts or start a thread. It's a very interesting article about how screwy things were inside the campaign.

"The largest caucus of recriminators, one that spans ideological boundaries and includes critics from every corner of the party, argues that Kerry failed to offer a compelling message. As Kerry seemed to realize in his speech Saturday night, the no-message critique is congealing into conventional wisdom. I heard it in every conceivable permutation from almost everyone I interviewed. "I don't know that we ever knew what it was we were saying about George W. Bush," says one senior member of the team, whose job it was to come up with a message about Bush. It was a problem that plagued the campaign as soon as they stumbled, penniless, from the primaries into the general election. "When we got into the general, nobody knew how to go against Bush," says a senior campaign official. " Shrum and Mellman built this strategy against Bush, 'Stronger at home, respected in the world.' What does that mean? We never even had strategy memos." By the fall, things were no better. "If there was a clear message in September about why you elect Kerry and defeat Bush, most of the people in the campaign were unaware of it," says one senior strategist hired late in the campaign. "
____________________________________________________________________

"Aides complain that the litany of issues filled the message vacuum. Inside the campaign, the message was known as jhos (pronounced "jay-hose"), which stood for jobs, health care, oil, and security. "jhos," says a senior policy adviser, despondently. "That was our message. It was jhos. That was literally our message. And, by the way, someone made millions of dollars to come up with that." That someone would be the political consulting firm Shrum, Devine, and Donilon, which is now receiving the brunt of criticism from demoralized staffers. The problem, aides say, is the lack of imagination Shrum and his colleagues exhibited. One common complaint is that they were slaves to polling data and used the research in a ridiculously literal way. Says a senior aide, "When you ask people, 'What is the most important issue?' and they say prescription drugs, say, 'Well, if we run on prescription drugs, we'll win.'" One aide repeatedly pressed Kerry to give a speech about welfare reform, since he had voted for Bill Clinton's bill in 1996. The idea was rebuffed because welfare didn't show up in polling as a key issue for voters. "It's never going to be the top issue," the aide complains. "If you call me on the phone, I'm not going to say that. But, if I hear you talk about welfare reform, it tells me something about your underlying character." There seemed to be an insurmountable gulf between the consultants, at their best running issue-based Senate campaigns, and the other staffers, who pressed for Kerry to explain the values he would bring to office rather than just his specific proposals. "Things became increasingly programmatic rather than values-based," says a senior adviser. "We were talking more and more about the specifics of our plan rather than the principles John Kerry would bring to bear in making those decisions."

_________________________________________________________________

In addition to jhos, Shrum is also taking a beating for the decision not to attack Bush. The swing voters in the focus groups said they didn't want to see attack ads, so the campaign dutifully obeyed. "There was a belief within the campaign that you did not need, fundamentally, to raise these questions about Bush," says one of the architects of the campaign's strategy. "It was much more about John Kerry and filling in the picture on John Kerry and making him an acceptable alternative." One of Kerry's closest aides says, "I absolutely think the lack of negative campaigning killed us." Aides argue that the absence of a negative case against Bush led directly to the absence of a coherent message overall. "The whole strategy was based on polling," says one of Kerry's senior advisers. "Mark Mellman always focused on swing voters. You've got to start making the case for change, but we were never allowed to do that because it scared the swing voters."

___________________________________________________________________

That's not enough for most Democrats. "Nobody should put Shrum, Devine, Donilon in charge of another presidential campaign," says a senior Kerry official. "There should be a three-strikes-and-you're-out rule, and there should definitely be a seven-strikes-and-you're-out rule." Says a senior Democratic strategist who worked on the campaign, "The one thing that Clinton didn't have, and the one thing that both Gore and Kerry had, was Bob Shrum." In the spring, when reporters wrote profiles of Shrum, they could expect an unsolicited phone call from his good friend and partner James Carville, who would rebut criticism of Shrum. By the fall, Carville himself was so angry at the way the Kerry campaign was being run, and Shrum was so hurt by Carville's criticisms, that the two men were barely speaking.

___________________________________________________________

It's that time again for Democrats. Kerry aides and party strategists have thrown themselves into their quadrennial post-campaign ritual of recriminations. Old scabs are being picked. Scores are being settled. Clintonites point fingers at the Kennedy wing. Longtime Kerry aides throw accusations of disloyalty at the Clintonites. Staffers from the Democratic National Committee lob bombs at staffers from the campaign. Policy wonks gripe about inept political consultants. Kerry aides who traveled on the campaign plane snipe at the aides who were based in Washington. Democrats, out of power and out of jobs, are doing what they do best: turning on one another.
____________________________________________________________
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. I asked about this last week, and someone posted that
Bob Shrum is friends with John Kerry, and John Kerry chose him.

I certainly think 0 for 7 is bad enough, and now Shrum is 0 for 8.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. He's 0 for 8 in presidential campaigns
I have no idea how he stays employed either.
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DuaneBidoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. I have to admit when I first heard he was 0 and 7 (pre Nov. 2)
It threw some real doubt into my heart about Kerry's decision making abilities. I'd be damned if I'd hire a coach for the World Series who is 0-7.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. I think I read or heard somewhere
That he was a decent speech writer for that senatorial way of speaking that worked well in the old days. But I think for future candidates were going to have dummy down the speeches quite a bit, lets face it we are in a country were mediocrity reigns.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Yep
He helped win a bunch of senate elections in blue states.

Obviously that's very different from winning them nationwide. One person said Kerry was running his campaign in such a way that he was running for senate in umpteen different states. It's in the TNR article.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. Not just Shrum -- Carville and Clinton said it was the economy, stupid...
... and it wasn't. It was the war in terror and the war on Iraq. They are two separate issues and they were foremost in people's minds. Perhaps Kerry simply calling them "safety and stupidity" would be a start.

Check out Huffington's latest on the subject.

The Architects of Defeat

by Arianna Huffington

Twelve days before the election, James Carville stood in a Beverly Hills living room surrounded by two generations of Hollywood stars. After being introduced by Sen. John Kerry's daughter, Alexandra, he told the room, confidently, almost cockily, that the election was in the bag.

"If we can't win this damn election," the advisor to the Kerry campaign said, "with a Democratic Party more unified than ever before, with us having raised as much money as the Republicans, with 55% of the country believing we're heading in the wrong direction, with our candidate having won all three debates, and with our side being more passionate about the outcome than theirs, if we can't win this one, then we can't win ! And we need to completely rethink the Democratic Party."

Well, as it turns out, that's exactly what should be done. But instead, Carville and his fellow architects of the Democratic defeat have spent the last week defending their campaign strategy, culminating on Monday morning with a breakfast for an elite core of Washington reporters.

At the breakfast, Carville, together with chief campaign strategist Bob Shrum and pollster Stan Greenberg, seemed intent on one thing--salvaging their reputations.

CONTINUED...

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1111-26.htm

fujiyama -- I agree totally about Shrum. The guy must be a mole.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I'm not sure
I completely agree with Huffington's view of Carville.

We have to remember that Carville came in VERY late in the game. By this time a lot of damage had been done. As the TNR article states the campaign made HUGE blunders like deciding not to use negative campaigning. This sounded like a stupid idea from the begining. It was a basic rule of politics that while people say they don't like negative ads, they are effective. Negative ads are what Daddy Bush used against Kerry's boss in Massachusetts. Instead of Willie Horton we got Swift Boats.

Also as the TNR article makes clear Schrum and the Carville/Greenburg group never really got along. When the new guys moved in there was conflict. In fact the Clinton guys (Lockheart, etc) wanted Mary Beth Cahill fired!

Also, while I believe Schrum is an incompetant bastard (and find it very convenient that he run away to Tuscany after this failed election while the rest of us live with teh consequences), he did have one positive aspect - he did a decent job in debate prep. I doubt he's a mole but hey who knows.

Ultimately Kerry himself made some really dumb mistakes - saying he voted for the 87 billion before he voted against it was STUPID, same with the wearing goofy biker outfits and windsurfing. I feel Kerry would have made a great president, but I would have liked to have smacked him across the head for certain things he did during the campaign.

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Mist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Seems to me the wars (Iraq and "terra")
Edited on Sat Nov-13-04 10:43 AM by lulu in NC
are directly related to the state of the economy. Wouldn't have been so hard for them to make that connection....
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. I think Huffington has the worst political instincts of anyone claiming to
Edited on Sat Nov-13-04 11:27 AM by AP
be liberal and gets as much press as she does.

Her husband's Republican campaign for Seante was terrible. Her own campaign for governor was ridiculous, and her commentary is absurd, for the most part. She gets a platform for one reason: she's rich and she was the wife of a man who ran a high profile disasterous campaign. It's not because she knows what she's talking about
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
5. Nothing personal re. Mr. Shrum, et al.....
but I do agree that it's time to think about doing some things differently... and the truth is that we have pretty much the same campaign honchos ( or at least a remarkably similar mentality) every 4 yrs.

I think back to the '84 convention and the party's edict to the delegates that no partisan signs or banners were to be displayed during the Mondale and Ferraro acceptance speeches. Instead, delegates were, shall we say, "instructed" to wave little American flags. All the better to convince "swing" voters that we were as patriotic as the Reaganites. There is somethin pathetic about that... not to mention disingenuous.

Cut to the Dem's somnambulent, superpatriotic, painfully self-concious convention of '04. Remarkably, little or nothing has changed. Unremarkably, we lose again. Perhaps we should look at these nat'l elections more as an opportunity to PERSUADE than an opportunity to do... well, whatever it is we were trying to do... get back in power, I guess.

We haven't gone over 50% in a presidential election since CARTER. This must mean something.

I have no simple solutions, just thinking out loud. These things should be discussed. Don't get angry.

Paul

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FlashHarry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. Agreed!
:nuke:
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Gyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
9. Dead wood is a huge problem for us
Getting rid of McCauliffe is going to require EXTREME MEASURES.

On the other hand, with elections held but with no right to have our vote counted, it doesn't really matter who's in charge anymore.

Gyre
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. McCauliffe is retiring after the first of the year.
Whether he'll be working on campaigns as a private citizen is, I guess, his own business. I'm sure he'll have a home with the DLC.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
13. we seriously should have gone with Dean.
he obviously insppired enthusiasm and loyalty, which we didn't have with Kerry.

But, once again, I repeat, this article is based on moping about Kerry losing. Kerry won, they cheated, that is all.
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DuaneBidoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. We need someone from Hollywood...I know that sounds crazy
but we have to get someone who understands how to manipulate and twist symbols to get responses from large groups of people. We have let Rethugs set the ground rules for too long by doing this. We must do it better. I find it difficult to believe that we have all this backing from Hollywood and the Rethugs still "out symbol" us every time.
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