Binary Bill Clinton Poll...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

The opening of the William Jefferson Clinton Library in Little Rock has made me nostalgic for the eight years of peace and prosperity we all enjoyed under Bill Clinton....

God I miss him....


Do you think the Clinton presidency was good for America?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. 22,000,000 New Jobs And Justices Breyer And Ginsburg

What's not to like?

[Atlant]

15. The destruction of the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party.

> What's not to like?

The destruction of the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party.

Clinton and the entire DLC are simply what an Eisenhower Republican
would be nowadays.

Essentially the *ONLY* elections that the DLC won were the two Clinton
presidential elections, and those with massive help from Ross Perot.
Every other election that the DLC has touched has turned to shite or
given us a DINO.

Atlant

[ArkDem]

19. during Clinton's administration, the Democrats lost:

- 48 seats in the House
- 8 seats in the Senate
- 11 governorships
- 1,254 state legislative seats
- Control of 9 legislatures
In addition 439 elected Democrats had joined the Republican Party while only three Republican officeholders had gone the other way.
While Democrats had been losing state legislative seats on the state level for 25 years, the loss during the Clinton years was striking. In 1992, the Democrats controlled 17 more state legislatures than the Republicans. After November 2000, the Republicans controlled one more than the Democrats. It was the first time since 1954 that the GOP had controlled more state legislatures than the Democrats (they tied in 1968). Among other things, this gave the Republican more control over redistricting.
In fact, no Democratic president since the 19th century suffered such an electoral disintegration of his party as did Clinton.

[Atlant]

22. Thank you for the hard (and hard-to-take) data. (NT)

[minkyboodle]

57. says it all really

[The Wielding Truth]

58. Then you are saying that the Democratic Party is an aberration?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. The Democrats Have Lost Seats And Elections In 2000,2002, and 2004

without Clinton...




As far as governing like Ike... Ike looks pretty good when you are being governed by a president with the domestic policies of Calvin Coolidge and the foreign policies of Genghis Khan.

[Atlant]

39. As I recall, they lost a few seats in '94 *WITH* Clinton, too.

(Something about the Republican take-over of Congress?)

Atlant

[Florida_Geek]

2. Duhhhhhhh

But his statements at the end of the 2004 election has me wanting Bill to Now Go Away and hide in your DLC world.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. my DLC world....

I never said I liked or disliked the DLC...


As for the Clinton years they rocked... How much they rocked can only be seen in the light of living under the Bush* junta and looking back in retrospect....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. kick-in honor of his library...

[Florida_Geek]

11. Sorry not your DLC world but Bills

:)

[aprillcm]

5. NO Question

He was great for this country! Its the Republican slime machine that is bad for it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. Those Were The Greatest Days...

I was in Charleston, South Carolina at the Omni Hotel on the day after the election in 92...

There were two African American bellhops in their sixties reading U S Today... One turned to the other and said "he (Clinton) kicked his ass"...

Those were fun times...

[against all enemies]

7. Would the two that voted no please explain.

[ClintonTyree]

10. The two that voted, "no".....................

are trolls that wouldn't dare let us know who they are. They're the brave "anonymous" types, you know?

[Atlant]

16. I voted no. I'm no troll. You still have time to edit your message.(NT)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. They Are Not Trolls Just Malcontents

Unable to enjoy possibly the last Democratic president of our lifetimes...

[Atlant]

40. That would be Carter, right?

> They Are Not Trolls Just Malcontents, unable to enjoy possibly the
> last Democratic president of our lifetimes...

That would be Carter, right? Clinton was more of "Republican Lite".

Atlant

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. You Should Read More...

Historians said Carter's presidency was the most conservative Democratic administration since Grover Cleveland....


Why do you think Ted Kennedy challenged him in 1980?


Beacause he was too liberal...

[Atlant]

42. I'm sorry, I thought it was Clinton that destroyed welfare, etc.

I'm sorry, I thought it was Clinton that destroyed welfare, signed
NAFTA, and the like.

Carter was the guy that was busy fighting the (still ongoing -- how
curious!) energy crisis, making progress on Middle East peace, etc..

Atlant

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. What's Wrong With Welfare Reform?

There should be provisions for working mothers but the able bodied should work...

Hell, even the Soviet Union had anti-parasite laws....


The energy crisis... What did the Carter administration do that that negatively or positively impacts us today...

As far as the Middle East Clinton spent much political capital trying to forge a two state solution...

I'll give Carter his props but he was no liberal Democratic icon during his tenure... Why do you think he got a challenge in the primaries from the left by a member of his own party... It was liberals like George Culver, Birch Bayh , and Pat Moynihan who urged Ted Kennedy to run and stop the rightward drift of Jimmy Carter...

That being said... Carter and Clinton are fine Democrats imho and Ted Kennedy's mission was not a wise one...

[A Simple Game]

59. What did the Carter administration do about energy policy?

If Carter's initiatives, incentives, and proposals had been acted upon instead of canceled by Ronald (we'll stick with oil) Reagan, this would probably be a much nicer, safer, and cleaner planet.

All of Carter's proposals would have been high tech and produced, at the time, the next generation of high paying jobs.

Energy policy can not be enacted in one presidential term, it must be long range.

[Goldmund]

26. I voted "no" too

Maybe you should hit "Alert" on me...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. It Practically His Birthday...

Can't we suspend our dislike for one day...


After living through the Bush junta I would look naked through a ton of dogshit to vote for Clinton again...

[Goldmund]

37. I don't vote for candidates...

...because I like them or dislike them or because it's their birthday or because they're nice. I've never met Bill Clinton; I don't like and I don't dislike Bill Clinton; to me, Bill Clinton represents all of the policies he championed and didn't champion, and their effects. I don't care whether or not it's Clinton-the-person's birthday.

Of course I'd vote for Clinton over Bush. I'd vote for Spongebob Squarepants over Bush.

[formernaderite]

14. I didn't vote no....but I'm not nostalgic for him either....

...he managed to pull the country rightward....and here we are.

[Blue_Roses]

50. he didn't pull the country rightward

in fact, he kept it from tipping totally on it's "right side" with all the idiots who tried to push him out of office. Some people...:eyes:

[ScreamingMeemie]

8. The presidency was.

The aftermath? I'm thinking not so much anymore. :(

[Kahuna]

9. Not just good, but excellent.

Bill rules!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. I Second That Emotion!

[KalicoKitty]

12. Oh, how I miss President Clinton!

With President Clinton, we enjoyed EIGHT YEARS of peace and prosperity, and could have a good night’s sleep every night!

His Legacy:

Under President Clinton, we saw a budget surplus, and the bringing down of trillions of $$$ national debt that Reagan and Bush created, tripled the stock market, 22 MILLION new jobs, crime went way down, wages went way up, abortions went way down, homeownership went way up, the list goes on and on. But Bush has destroyed it all.

President Clinton made the economy flourish by giving the American people confidence. He didn't give big tax cuts to the wealthy. He didn't instigate wars and squander tax dollars bombing innocence a single administration, and more than were created in the previous twelve years. There was the longest economic expansion in American history.

During his eight years we saw the highest homeownership in American history, and the lowest unemployment in 30 years!!!!

President Clinton raised education standards, increased school choice, and doubled education and training investment....connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet.

There was the lowest crime rate in 26 years.

President Clinton enacted the most sweeping gun safety legislation in a generation.

He gave us the Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans.

There were higher incomes at all levels, and the lowest poverty rate in 20 years.

Also, the lowest teen birth rate in 60 years, and lowest infant mortality rate in American history.

Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union.

Protected millions of acres of American land.

Paid off $360 billion of the national debt.

Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus. More families owned stock than ever before.

All the above is being undone by the dictating fraud!

And, The GOPers were out to get him from the get go, because they were sooooo highly pissed because he beat TREASONOUS POPPY!

Bush is not a president. He is a dictator and he is controlling the economy. Tax cuts for wealthy, billions for his grudge/oil war, etc. We taxpayers pay for all his many vacations, flying all over the world like a monkey in a tree, entertaining a..holes like Blair, and on and on.

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. With the good comes the bad...I lost half of my EIC. I think he was

a great president, but I am not willing to deify him. :hi:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. You Forgot Justices Breyer And Ginsburg

without whom the hideous Hardwick v Georgia decision likely still stands and men and women who fell in love with members of the same gender and wanted to express that love in a sexual way were subject to arrest and imprisonment...


Though arrests and imprisonment were rare the stigma was enormous

[Angelique]

17. I haven't been posting long enough to have an negative opinion of Clinton

without being called a turncoat.. But I am sorry, I don't think Bill Clinton did anything for our longterm goals. His reckless behavior in the White House with that young slut was disgusting. I have been saying this to my family since he was president, that his actions and our acquiescence will come back to haunt us..

All of this morality stuff is a direct result of his lecherous behavior and Hillary's blaming everyone else created a backlash that hurt both GORE and KERRY and every other Dem candidate as long as we keep him in the forefront.

[aprillcm]

18. Yeah Cause Felons

and criminal behavior is so much better than Marital Infidelity which by the way was NONE of the publics Business. I struggled at first because of my views of marriage, however when the day was done I came to this conclusion Hilary forgave him, they worked it out and appear to have a good marriage.
It took Hundreds of Millions of our tax payer dollars and years of investigation into everything the man had ever done to find this evidence! was it worth it NO I don't think so. Clintons Presidency as much as you and the Republicans would like can not be nailed down to this. Personal life wise he was a toad, Presidential wise he was great for us, its people like you who allow this kind of thing to divide us as a party and a country.

So what do we end up with?? Sorry I will take a little infidelity over a war based on lies and being totally run by a party full of thieves when you consider these things Clintons so called crimes do not seem so bad do they??

[Angelique]

20. Maybe we wouldn't have this moron if we kept our pants

zippered in the oval office either.. I stand by my man and always will until he slaps me in front of the entire world. Hillary should have slapped him silly, and he should have fessed up at once and stepped down and let Gore take over.. he would have made a great president and gotten re-elected, and maybe we would be in a war now..

[aprillcm]

21. Okay you are so informed

How many past Presidents that we consider great had Mistresses living right in the White House?? I can not tell you exact number till my daughter gets home. But it was a lot of them.

You and People like you, who can not except failings in other people are what have brought our country to this point. The President of the Untied States is a human being not a God, and they make human errors. Clinton did not send this nation to war based on a Lie he did not run our national deficit through the roof to give his buddies tax breaks, Clinton did not do a host of the evil things that this administration has done, it seems to me we need to get our priorities straight in this country and quit focusing so much on the Personal lives of our leaders and more on the Public Deeds.

No Gore would not have been re-elected had Clinton Stepped down the Republicans would never have allowed it. Period.

[Angelique]

23. Listen, we don't need to be fighting each other

We have an entire half of a nation to convince we are the better choice.. But I am not wrong about this power happy couple, and I cannot be persuaded otherwise.. If Hillary runs we will lose not only the presidency again, we will lose the future of our party..

This couple and their defenders remind me of that old saying.. "do you believe me or your lying eyes".. No offense, we are on the same side with different views of this single problem.. Thanks

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. I Love Bill Clinton But Adultery Is Wrong

Wrong but not uncommon...

FDR had a girlfriend

Ike had girlfriends

JFK had girlfriends

LBJ had girlfriends...


Great men all and none of them deserve to be judged by their worst moments....

[bullimiami]

32. Wrong, but a problem between him and his family.

And Monica of course.

Truly it was stupid.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. Worse Than Stupid... Insane....

It was the catalyst for a spiral of bad events...

That being said I don't want to be judged by my worst act and I refuse to judge others by that measure....

[wuushew]

55. Right and Wrong are artificial concepts

that exist with certainty only in your own mind. Marriage is not a legally binding contract that prevents sexual contact with others. It certainly is no more wrong then the opinions some harbor about polygamy, prostitution and homosexuality.

The only universal wrongs are coercive and rather real effects of personal and governmental policy. Personal sexual behavior does not constitute a wrong even though it may enrage or sadden a significant other.

[lilfroggy]

29. John Kennedy even

n/t

[newyawker99]

27. Hi Angelique!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Angelique]

31. Thanks, it is a real pleasure to be among friends.

I have been lurking around here for a very long time, and always just talked (and sometime screamed), at my monitor especially in these troubling times.. I decided it was time to join this very important discussion. I hope I can contribute to a winning agenda..

[Andromeda]

61. If Ken Starr had been getting regular...

bj's he never would have gone after Clinton.

Instead, Starr produced the most massive pornographic dump in the history of this country.

I'd much rather have Clinton in office, warts and all, than what we have running the government now.

At least Clinton didn't kill anybody.

[bullimiami]

30. He was the best republican president ever.

Really he is so moderate socially and pretty conservative economically.
At least he was not a total sellout to the powerful.

He screwed up some pretty fundamental things. Media reform, Globalization, Welfare Reform (sic), but i remember that he had to find a way to work with the maniacs that have shown how insane they are in the last 4 years. He was truly a uniter not a divider, the rabid republicans do not know how to play well with others.

On balance he did a lot more good than bad.

[Catherine Vincent]

33. I definitely miss the Clinton/Gore golden years!

[Clinton Crusader]

38. It was a wonderful golden time

Im flipping around the channels and fell on MSNBC, and they are running speech clips from WJC and it depresses the crap out of me, what a presidential figure he was and IS!!! And this moran we're stuck with. GOOD GOD, this asshat isnt fit to wipe his shoes.

While I disagree with his actions (WJC) it was a PRIVATE matter, the Repukes escalated into hysteria. How about all that this fool is reposnisble for? My God, there is no comparison.

I look back so so fondly on those 8 years and miss him so much.

And I saw John Kerry there and that hurt, too. :cry:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. kick for the nighttime crowd

[OrwellwasRight]

45. The Clinton Presidency was bad for America because

1) it ushered in NAFTA and the era of the "free-trade" hegemony. Because Clinton signed NAFTA and painted free-trade as a bipartisan concept, anybody who questions the wisdom of it all (e.g., Kucinich) is marginalized in the party as well as in the press. Free trade is good in principle (yes, I've seen the economics equations to prove it), but when quality of life is at stake, the answer is not that simple. When we engage in free trade without any conditions (e.g., we will free trade with you if you do not engage in slave labor, child labor, and if you do not lack worker protections and environmental laws), we simple either have created a recipe toward outsourcing or have signed the death knell for these things in our country or both. As we all know, the free trade turkey is coming home to roost.

2) it killed the Democratic Party. Clinton's success convinced too many people that the only way to be a winning Democrat is to move to the right policy-wise. Well, the strategy has not worked so far, and even if it did, again, it means certain policies and views will never be on the table: single-payer health care, European-style vacation laws, tax policies that ensure externalities of certain products (e.g. fossil fuels) are factored in, a foreign policy that is really based on human rights, not oil reserves, etc. We are in shambles because we will forever have this left v. moderate debate and we won't appeal to anyone because we will keep being wishy-washy because of it.

3) he set back the cause of health care reform by backing off his plan at the first sign of trouble. And where are we now? 45 million uninsured and rising; insurance more expensive than ever and rising; and a Repub Congress that is vowing to decouple health insurance and jobs.

4) he was married to Hillary, who is now a likely candidate in 2008, who will likely lose, and keep us out of the WH until at least 2012. If he had not been President, most of the country would never have heard of her.

5) it allowed the Repubs to claim the moral high-ground. I know this is bu'shit, and I think it is falling apart fast, especially given DeLay's antics and that Bush-Condi affair, but anytime we say anything, they just come back with some stupid non sequitir about how at least they are not gettin gblow jobs in the Oval Office and setting a bad example for our children.

I just think he was not good for us in the long run. I think Jerry Brown or Jesse Jackson would have done a much better job. I can't remember who else ran that year, but there were at least 6 or 7, and looking back, I bet there are a few of them whose impact would not have been so devastating to the party--and the country--in the long run.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. Jackson Didn't Run In 92... He Ran In 84 And 88....

And God bless Jesse the presidency wasn't his destiny...


I still don't have a problem with free trade as long as there are programs in place for those who jobs are displaced as a result of it... Ultimately countries like people are best off doing what they do best...


Americans have never embraced a European style welfare state... Not before Clinton and not after him... A safety net yes....

He's not the first Democratic president to fail in providing universal health care.... By my count he's the fifth....

I oppose a Hillary candidacy but you can't blame Bill for that... Your argument is without Bill there's no Hillary... Counterfactual history is a fun parlor game but it only gets you so far... Without Sirhan Sirhan there's no Nixon...

The blowjob... Anybody that blames the entire party for Clinton's moral lapse was never ours for the taking...

22,000,000 new jobs, progressive court appointments,peace abroad...

What's not to like?

[OrwellwasRight]

47. Actually

I was so obsessed by Jerry Brown that I have blacked out much else from that campaign, so I stand corrected on JJ.

Well, to each his own on free trade. While David Ricardo posits a nice theory in comparative advantage, it doesn't do much for the planet when the reasons that one country has a cost advantage over another are that they pay children a quarter and hour and spew toxic chemicals in the local river.

Regarding health care reform and progressive policies, my point was that these are "off-the-table" for good now in the party and the press, not that they were "just-around-the-corner." My point was not that we were somehow going to achieve them tomorrow before Clinton came along.

My point is that mainstream members of the party used to talk about a lot of things more progressively than they do now. Now, visionary ideas are, for the most part, ignored. I remember Jesse Jackson and Ted Kennedy talking and writing about the CIA's illegal war in Angola in the 1985-1988 period and how it was disrupting the country (Angola) economically and crippling so many children with land mines, and it was immoral and not justified simply because Angola's government had a Marxist bent. Where's THAT Democratic party? Where's the party that could bring up things as we'd like them to be (ala RFK) instead of the party that seems to be content moving left by inches. My point is that Clinton's giving in (whether on health or BLM reform or gays in the military) really set the stage for a leap rightward in the party to where visionary voices are marginalized and certain options are not in the debate (even if those options would lose hands down, I would rather have them championed and considered).

As to progressive court appointments, we'll just have to differ. I feel that Clinton's court appointments are largely center-left, not progressive. Where's the new Harry Pregerson (9th Cir), Thurgood Marshall, William Brennan, Stephen Reinhardt (9th Cir)? Instead, we get moderate liberals Ginsberg and Breyer. I'm sorry, but Ginsburg wrote the decision that allowed the Sonny Bono copyright act (which extends the life of a copyright before it can go into the public domain) to stand. This is a blatant violation of the constitution in my book, and a giveaway to Disney and all the other big money corps. Ginsburg also sided with the majority in US v. Vonn, which basically allowed a plea to be upheld even though the judge had clearly and without doubt violated a rule stating that he had to apprise the defendant of his right to counsel. These may be esoteric cases that don't get as much press as abortion and homosexuality cases, but these are the meat and potatoes of our legal system, and the decisions do have repercussions for everyday life.

This court, with the occasional blessing of the Clinton appointees, will continue to whittle away at our civil rights and liberties bit by bit. Because there is no extreme left-wing on the court to balance the extremist right wing of Scalia and Thomas, again, some views just won't be heard. And I believe that silence will affect the decisions.

I'm not saying that the country was not prosperous when Clinton was around. I'm saying that, to me, I think his legacy is more damaging in the long run.

I know this is the minority view here, and I don't expect to convince you. I'm just answering the poll question with my $.02 FWIW (which, I admit, may be very miniscule indeed).

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. Without Breyer And Ginsburg

Hardwick v Georgia or Georgia v Hardwick is still likely the law of the land....


The Lawrence v Texas ruling which removes the stigma from same sex relationships is an infinitely bigger step on the road to the fulfillment of human rights than some obscure intellectual property case...

[OrwellwasRight]

52. No, not if his picks were MORE liberal

than Breyer and Ginsburg, which is what I'm advocating for. E.g, if he had elevated Reinhardt and Pregerson from the Ninth Circuit, they would certainly have ruled to overturn Hardwicke (and what I am saying is that they would have made many more similar rulings instead of going along with the majority, which happens quite often in this court: there are many 6-3, 7-2, and 9-0 decisions that aren't necessarily that lopsided to court watchers).

Your argument about Hardwicke only holds up if Clinton nominated even more conservative folks than he did, and I wouldn't advocate that unless I had Mad Cow Disease that had caused giant holes to appear in my brain. When I'm disease free, I say the more liberal, the better.

Moreover, how is your argument (about what would have happened if Clinton didn't nominate B & G) any less counterfactual than my comment about Hillary not being the losing nominee? (not that I think there is anything wrong with counterfactual analysis; it is often a quite enlightening way to examine history)

BTW, Eldred v. Ashcroft is not "some obscure intellectual property case." It is a case about protecting corporate power, keeping the rich rich and everybody else down. It is about preventing competition, and it is about discounting the words of the Constitution. It affects everyone, and it received lots of press during oral argument and after it was decided in about January 2003.

[RummyTheDummy]

48. Hahahaha -- DU Clinton haters getting crushed!

NT

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. At Least Bubba Ain't Getting The Kerry Treatment (nt)

He's worse than cooties on this board...

He wasn't my first, second, or third choice but I ain't gonna kick a fella when he's down...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

66. This Rummy Ain't No Dummy

nt

[xequals]

54. Clinton is bad for this country because he is not a man of principle.

I don't care as much about what he did with Lewinsky as much as I do about his seeming lack of conviction or ideology - whatever it may be. Clinton's poll driven personality politics has contributed to the dumbing down of politics and the electorate, where someone unqualified like Bush using Clintonian tactics managed to slip into office in 2000. Kerry lost using the same tactics, because the electorate has shifted out of it's 90s mentality and into a more serious post 9-11 mode, where electing a leader who stands for something matters more than anything else.

I'm an independent - a moderate libertarian - and I prefer to have a candidate tell me what they really believe - no matter what that is. I prefer to have a real debate about tough issues, in addition to the usual debate about character and personality. The Democratic Party has turned into a ball of poll driven mushiness - which only worked for Clinton and in the care free 90s - but cannot work now or for anyone else.

edit: I should add that I voted for Kerry to get Bush out, not because I felt he was a great candidate, because he wasn't. Kerry only got as many votes as he did because so many Americans see the grave threat Bush and the neoconservative theocrats represent.

[A Simple Game]

60. Clinton gave us hope for real tax relief.

I don't recall the number, but the interest and principal on the National debt is a significant amount. Paying down the debt was a promise of real tax relief in the future, no some borrow now pay latter scheme like we have now. It may have been conservative fiscal policy, but it was smart policy! Nothing wrong with that.

Not minding paying taxes myself, I believe we could have used the savings to cover everyone with a national health plan. I still feel we could do this for less than the cost everyone now pays, just by simplifying the system. The reduction in paperwork itself could be enormous. How many different forms must doctors offices and hospitals now be able to fill out for each different insurance provider?

National policy is not usually taken in leaps and bound, it is usually taken in baby steps. I think Clinton did what he could after His first big attempted leap, and the defeat of His and Hillary's health plan failed.

[Piperay]

62. Clinton was good for the country but bad for

the Democratic Party, thanks to his BJ with Monica we will never get over being hit with the immorality label. :argh: I love him though and sure miss him!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. Anybody That Was So Petty To Blame The Whole Party For Clinton's

Philandering Wasn't Ours For The Taking...

[Zynx]

64. Yes, but not for the Democratic party.

The Democratic party left the Clinton years shattered by losses on the state and Congressional levels. It wasn't because of Monica either. It was because in his first couple years he pretended he had a mandate that he didn't and pissed off a lot of people. We have never recovered from those 1994 losses.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. kick (nt)

[Leilani]

68. With Clinton, it;'s never an easy answer..

so I didn't vote.