So lets line up all the moderate Democrats and shoot them... circle style

[ShaneGR]

Yes oh fellow DU'ers, lets continue firing rounds off at any Democrats who don't fit our preconceived notion of liberalism to the T. If they don't stand up screaming and yelling like a banshee everytime they get a chance, screw em, let a wingnut take over their seat.

Maybe we can narrow down our seats in the Senate to under 40? Perhaps we can even begin targeting our own on the House side, how does 150 seats to 300 sound? Fantastic I say!

What if a moderate Democrat is pro-life? Screw em, let a wingnut take the seat. Not fervently pro-labor? Off with his head! Doesn't oppose drilling in Alaska? Shoot em in the kneecaps and cheer! Doesn't support gay marriage? Kill kill kill.

Because only when we get rid of all the Democrats who don't fit our preconceived notion of liberalism and progressive values will our party be PURE.

Of course, we'll have even less say in how our country gets run but some would be just fine with that. Although I'm worried they'll still look for some Democrats to bash, even though the real enemy (The Republican Party) has a Howitzer pointed directly at our groins while they laugh and applaud our efforts to destroy ourselves.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ShaneGR]

3. Where do you live? nt

[Walt Starr]

8. Illinois 13th Congressional district.

Obama was the real deal as a Democrat goes.

Lisa Madigan will challenge Blagojevich for the governor's spot come 2006 and she's all about machine politics, so I will probably vote for a Republican for the first time in my life in the Illinois 2006 gubernatorial election.

[ShaneGR]

15. Kind of strange... didn't Kerry win Illinois by like 30 points?

Hmmmmmmmmm

[Walt Starr]

26. Not by quite so much, 55% Kerry 45% Bush

Obama, who is a real deal Democrat, took his race by a commanding margin.

And if you look at the county map, Kerry won mostly due to Cook County.

I do not live in Cook County, and Bush won my county.

[ShaneGR]

32. Well, not sure you can use Obama as a good example

I mean, seriously, he was running against Alan Keyes. I think I could run against Alan Keyes and garner at least 70% in Illinois.

That being said, I like Obama, a lot. I think our problem on the left is that we expect everyone to be just like Obama, which is impossible.

Seriously, and this isn't personal. But do you ever travel much through the diehard red states? Obama would probably get shot trying to run in Oklahoma or Nebraska. Do I think that's right? Of course not! But I do think we need to start taking a cold hard look at the electoral maps, like we did in 92.

People act like we haven't ever run a "real" liberal for the White House. Uhhhh, McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis come to mind for me. How well did that go?

[Walt Starr]

34. I lived in Wyoming for two decades

sorry, but DLC thinking has lost us major elections since 2000.

[ShaneGR]

38. So you're just gonna overlook 92 & 96

Keep in mind that without Bill Clinton and the DLC, we'd be looking at year #25 straight with Repug Presidents, with 3 more left.

[Walt Starr]

47. Clinton was an anomoly when Prot is factored in

Look at what Clinton's crap did to the Congress in '94, and we haven't made any meaningful gains there since.

[w13rd0]

48. Bill Clinton

Had a unique charm and amazing intellect. Though he won, we also should factor in Perot, and what was gained on coattails. I don't attribute 92 & 96 to the DLC, I attribute them to Clinton.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. I Live In Florida And I Could Beat Alan Keyes If He Moved Here (nt)

[LoZoccolo]

19. I think Obama is Republican Lite compared to me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1365687&mesg_id=1365687&page=

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eataTREE]

6. That's a great idea.

- Love, Karl Rove.

I agree with the parent poster. I think we should support candidates who are passionate about their views, but I don't think we're in a position to be turning away potential allies because they don't toe the line to our satisfaction.

Harry Reid's pro-life. As a liberal I am pro-choice. But, as a liberal, I believe in freedom of conscience. And, pro-life or not, I'll take Harry Reid over Dick Cheney any day of the week.

[ShaneGR]

12. Bingo...

You got that one right.

[Walt Starr]

20. To bad

Third Party votes are throwawys right now, so my choice is pushing the rightwing nutball agenda along quickly or in drips and drabs. If the full horror of the rightwing nutball agenda comes at one, it'll be too much for most of America to stomach.

[LoZoccolo]

7. You also said you were voting for Nobody But Dean.

Whatever happened to that? ;)

[Walt Starr]

39. I bought into the bullshit argument

and was proved that it was wrong by buying into the bullshit argument.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Q]

41. Please don't tell DUers to 'get the hell out'...

...especially those who have 'earned their stripes' and have been here from the start. How arrogant of you.

- Walt is not a Republican...he's trying to make a point. The same point that has been made over and over again: Republican trumps Republican lite every time.

[WI_DEM]

2. Good Idea!!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I Am Pro Choice, Pro Gay, Pro Affirmative Action...

While I am philsophically liberal like the fella on my avatar I am also a tough minded liberal who is operationally pragmatic...

[Maat]

11. I think I'm with you DemocratSinceBirth.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. I Wonder If RFK Was Alive Today If He Would Be Called A Neocon...

Despite his opposition to the Viet Nam War he was a hawk and an unashamed patriot.


He was an absolute moralist...


He was willing to help those in need but expected much out of everybody...


He was sui generis...

A liberal with brass ones...

[ShaneGR]

28. He'd be labeled a flip-flopper who didn't stand for anything...

Cuz he advised Johnson to go into Vietnam and then changed his mind.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. He Changed His Mind When The Situation Warranted It...

Very few Americans questioned the wisdom of the war at it's beginning ...

The Gulf Of Tonkin Resolution passed 97-2 I believe ... Even George McGovern voted for it...

[ShaneGR]

35. Oh, wasn't bashing RFK, was just saying, modern day, what would happen

But hell, if FDR ran today he'd be labeled a broken down crippled liberal by the right.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. I Know You Weren't

nt

[charlie]

36. Bobby was also a take-no-shit Democrat

You fucked with the Kennedy bros, they fucked your whole family back. So no, I don't think RFK would've been regarded as neocon. The lack of the willingness to go bareknuckle against the Repubs is probably the prime complaint in the litany I hear around here. Bobby would be chewing Republican ass and be loved for it at DU.

[RetroLounge]

49. "chewing Republican ass and be loved for it at DU"

Hell yeah, but the same people who bash Dean here on DU would be bashing RFK too.

RL

[ShaneGR]

17. Same here, I'm pro-choice, pro-labor, anti-death penalty, anti-war, etc.

But I'm also VERY pragmatic.

[AntiCoup2K4]

4. Narrow down our Senate seats??

Hey Yoda, perhaps you forgot that the 1994 theft of Congress was considered a "liberation" by your masters at the DLC.

Your so called "moderates" are the ones responsible for the slow and painful death of this party over the last decade.

Kill them? Don't tempt me. Actually the death penalty used to be the appropriate penalty for treason, but I don't think there's enough electric chairs left.

Instead I'd rather kick these neocon moles to the curb and get back to being the DEMOCRATIC party and not Repuke Lite.

[ShaneGR]

10. LOL, my masters at the DLC.... HAHA!

I'm no fan of the DLC, just as I'm no fan of those on the far left who choose to act just like those at the DLC, targeting their fellow Democrats.

[w13rd0]

5. I'm all for recognizing individuality and differences of opinion...

...but the Democratic party, as it stands today, under its present leadership, appears unprincipled and wimpy. I'm not saying we should throw "moderates" overboard, just that we shouldn't be so eager to put them in leadership positions that offer opportunity for further marginalization. You say that were we to not cater to these "moderates", we'd lose seats. WE ALREADY ARE! We'd lose elections. WE ALREADY ARE! By actual wins or by fraud, our "leadership" for the most part rolls over and asks for another.

The Fromians and Liebermen can continue to hold their own positions, I just don't feel compelled to follow their call. They seem all too willing to compromise to extinction, and think nothing of the increasing and pervasive influence of a corptocracy that has made the Republicans the dominant party, with the Democrats "playing the part" of the opposition, but not too much so.

[LittleClarkie]

9. Hey, we'll be marginalized but at least we'll be pure

See how impressively pure we are. Um, hello? Gee, why are we not getting any attention. (jumps up and down) Hey, we're relevant! I SAY, WE'RE RELEVANT! Hellloooo?!

Yep, I see it too Shane. Rove is laughing his ass off somewhere. Woohoo, two birds with one stone.

[Maat]

16. I'm a pragmatic liberalist liberal ... as stated above.

I believe strongly that we have to establish strong progressive caucuses within each Democratic party headquarters. That way we stand tall behind our principles. If we compromise with the moderate wing...so be it. Remember, the money I use to fund my progressive causes comes from a blended corporation - blended in the sense of people who have differing political views. It would do us no good to have that funding dry up. Does that mean that I will not achieve my progressive goals? No, I will for sure - because the young are not as bigoted as the old. Informal social discussion is working.

[Hobarticus]

13. Dissent is not allowed on DU!!! Report yourself for flogging!

No questions asked, or opposing viewpoints allowed. No tolerance or empathy for our own if they don't toe the line.

Sounds an awful lot like another party we know.

[ShaneGR]

14. ShaneGR reporting for public flogging

Flog me! Hehe

[Hobarticus]

18. Go pick out yer switch, boy....

Ugly atmosphere, eh?

[ShaneGR]

21. Yeah, pretty much....

I really thought the people around here would turn their anger on Bush, not each other.

[Hobarticus]

25. It'll calm down...we'll collect ourselves soon enough.

If we don't hang together, we'll surely hang seperately.

[Maat]

22. No way. You would enjoy it too much.

[ShaneGR]

23. Please?

Just a couple wacks on the behind. :-)

[demosincebirth]

31. As a moderate dem, with both liberal and conservitive values I agree with

The further left some of us want to take the party, the less chance we have of winnning national elections. We will be the party with no voice.

[LittleClarkie]

42. I know, and besides, I'm moderate because

that's where my beliefs are. I'd be compromising my beliefs if I leaned left automatically if I don't agree with what the left is saying. Sometimes I will, sometimes I won't. I'm for common sense and sanity, wherever I may find it. I'm not going to oppose a Repub with a good idea merely because he's a Repub. Those who have said that's what we should do bother me.

[kentuck]

33. I've followed them into the jungle as far as I'm going....

and we're going back to the people....and I'm not alone in these sentiments. If you want to continue this riciculous journey, Goodbye.

[Q]

40. Isn't it funny that even 'conservative' Dems use the terminology...

...of the RWing? It's ANTI-ABORTION...not 'pro-life'. And the 'pure' rhetoric? That's the same rhetoric we see from the same 'moderate' crowd when they try to rationalize the sellout of the Democratic party.

- It's the New Democrats who started this 'liberals want purity' bullshit to explain away their willingness to compromise principles that made the Democratic party great and what attracted the average person to the 'party of the people'

- You won't see the Bush* Regime compromising. They think compromise is a sign of weakness. But they LOVE IT when 'moderate' Dems continue to compromise with them...actually expecting something in return.

- It's not really about liberal versus conservative. It's about wanting a leadership that that stands up for the people and their Constitution instead of becoming part of dishonesty and corruption that's killing America.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. Yeah, what bugs me most about the DLC, even more than their

righward tilt, is their loopy notion that the Dems have lost elections because they didn't compromise enough.

I'm wracking my brains trying to think of the last time the Republicans ever won popular support by compromising.

[kentuck]

45. And if you disagree with them.....

you are lining up in a "circular" firing squad. Somebody has to lead this Party.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. Actually Bush* Has Thrown Some Bones To Folks In The Middle

He has said he isn't opposed to civil unions....


He greatly expanded Medicare...


He speaks the language of inclusion even if he doesn't mean it....

[Skinner]

51. This is just flame bait.

I'm locking.