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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 07:19 PM
Original message
It's the terrorism.
Edited on Thu Dec-02-04 07:34 PM by Julien Sorel
Pundits have seized on exit polls showing that the electorate's single greatest concern was moral values, cited by 22 percent of voters. But, as my colleague Andrew Sullivan has pointed out ("Uncivil Union," November 22), a similar share of the electorate cited moral values in the '90s. The real change this year was on foreign policy. In 2000, only 12 percent of voters cited "world affairs" as their paramount issue; this year, 34 percent mentioned either Iraq or terrorism. (Combined, the two foreign policy categories dwarf moral values.) Voters who cited terrorism backed Bush even more strongly than those who cited moral values. And it was largely this new cohort--the same one that handed the GOP its Senate majority in 2002--that accounts for Bush's improvement over 2000. As Paul Freedman recently calculated in Slate, if you control for Bush's share of the vote four years ago, "a 10-point increase in the percentage of voters citing terrorism as the most important problem translates into a 3-point Bush gain. A 10-point increase in morality voters, on the other hand, has no effect."

...

Instead, Bush's war on terrorism became a partisan affair--defined in the liberal mind not by images of American soldiers walking Afghan girls to school, but by John Ashcroft's mass detentions and Cheney's false claims about Iraqi WMD. The left's post-September 11 enthusiasm for an aggressive campaign against Al Qaeda--epitomized by students at liberal campuses signing up for jobs with the CIA--was overwhelmed by horror at the bungled Iraq war. So, when the Democratic presidential candidates began courting their party's activists in Iowa and New Hampshire in 2003, they found a liberal grassroots that viewed the war on terrorism in negative terms and judged the candidates less on their enthusiasm for defeating Al Qaeda than on their enthusiasm for defeating Bush. The three candidates who made winning the war on terrorism the centerpiece of their campaigns--Joseph Lieberman, Bob Graham, and Wesley Clark--each failed to capture the imagination of liberal activists eager for a positive agenda only in the domestic sphere. Three of the early front-runners--Kerry, John Edwards, and Dick Gephardt--each sank as Howard Dean pilloried them for supporting Ashcroft's Patriot Act and the Iraq war.

Three months before the Iowa caucuses, facing mass liberal defections to Dean, Kerry voted against Bush's $87 billion supplemental request for Iraq. With that vote, the Kerry compromise was born. To Kerry's foreign policy advisers, some of whom supported the supplemental funding, he remained a vehicle for an aggressive war on terrorism. And that may well have been Kerry's own intention. But, to the liberal voters who would choose the party's nominee, he became a more electable Dean. Kerry's opposition to the $87 billion didn't only change his image on the war in Iraq; it changed his image on the war on terrorism itself. His justification for opposing the $87 billion was essentially isolationist: "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them down in our own communities." And, by exploiting public antipathy toward foreign aid and nation-building, the natural building blocks of any liberal anti-totalitarian effort in the Muslim world, Kerry signaled that liberalism's moral energies should be unleashed primarily at home.

Kerry's vote against the $87 billion helped him lure back the liberal activists he needed to win Iowa, and Iowa catapulted him toward the nomination. But the vote came back to haunt him in two ways. Most obviously, it helped the Bush campaign paint him as unprincipled. But, more subtly, it made it harder for Kerry to ask Americans to sacrifice in a global campaign for freedom. Biden could suggest "a new program of national service" and other measures to "spread the cost and hardship of the war on terror beyond our soldiers and their families." But, whenever Kerry flirted with asking Americans to do more to meet America's new threat, he found himself limited by his prior emphasis on doing less. At times, he said his primary focus in Iraq would be bringing American troops home. He called for expanding the military but pledged that none of the new troops would go to Iraq, the new center of the terror war, where he had said American forces were undermanned. Kerry's criticisms of Bush's Iraq policy were trenchant, but the only alternative principle he clearly articulated was multilateralism, which often sounded like a veiled way of asking Americans to do less. And, because he never urged a national mobilization for safety and freedom, his discussion of terrorism lacked Bush's grandeur. That wasn't an accident. Had Kerry aggressively championed a national mobilization to win the war on terrorism, he wouldn't have been the Democratic nominee.


...

Kerry was a flawed candidate, but he was not the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem was the party's liberal base, which would have refused to nominate anyone who proposed redefining the Democratic Party in the way the ADA did in 1947. The challenge for Democrats today is not to find a different kind of presidential candidate. It is to transform the party at its grassroots so that a different kind of presidential candidate can emerge. That means abandoning the unity-at-all-costs ethos that governed American liberalism in 2004. And it requires a sustained battle to wrest the Democratic Party from the heirs of Henry Wallace. In the party today, two such heirs loom largest: Michael Moore and MoveOn.


http://www.tnr.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20041213&s=beinart121304

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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Huh?
Liberals are the problem? I'd say the DLC types are the problem, if there's any problem at all. That said, I have no problem with them... although they do have an annoying habit of thinking they're the heart and soul of the party. There's a reason half of the people in the country don't vote: the choice is a non-choice. Vote republicrat, or... don't. Same thing, there's gonna be one in office anyway.

Of course the media and other things contribute vastly to this.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. TNR doesn't get it. Michael Moore endorsed Clark. TNR- Joementum
Which seems more rational to you?
(I won't even go into Moveon)
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I think TNR does get it.
Edited on Thu Dec-02-04 07:43 PM by Julien Sorel
I think Michael Moore might get it now, too -- four years of Bush has a way of waking people up. But it's also possible that Michael Moore supported Clark because he -- rightly in my view -- saw him as the best opportunity to dump Bush, not because he understands or agrees with the notion that the DP must become, as Clark says, a "full service party."

Clark himself, it is clear, would agree with this article. If you haven't read it in its entirety I strongly suggest you do so, as there's a lot of stuff in it that I think is relevant to people who saw value in Clark's candidacy.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. I kept trying to articulate that....
Edited on Thu Dec-02-04 07:41 PM by FrenchieCat
I kept saying..."It's the National Security, Stupid"....but to little avail. Even Kerry, with his soldier's story of over 35 years ago was a weak sell. That's not the type of National Security experience that I was envisioning would win over a nation who seem scared due to the government's tactics and the 9/11 tragedy. I was thinking along the lines of recent, detailed and all around expertise. A tactician...not a politician is what we needed. It's not the war hero story that failed...it was the lack of recent diplomatic and security experience that we needed much more of.

That's why the push now to find the moderate Southern or swing state governor for 2008 irks me. It's confirming that somehow, moral values won. They certainly were a factor....just not the most important factor.

Hopefully, the more we think about this past campaign, the more we will realize that it's about being a full service party. We must be strong in all areas....including real National Defense. I'm not talking about jumping in the water 35 years ago and saving a life.....I'm talking considerably more. Thinking that we can ignore this issue will not work. We listened to Shrum this time....and decided otherwise too late in the game. And we have to get a little bold.....not being them ain't gonna get it.
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. The Southern moderate thing isn't about values so much
as it is about credibility. Red staters and their ilk don't trust the typical Democratic politician, certainly not the ones we've been running on national tickets. It takes someone from outside the normal mode to make them look twice. Carter, a Georgia moderate and born-again Christian, made them look twice. Clinton, a "new Democrat" moderate from Arkansas, made them look twice. The rest of our candidates have been unable to do that, including Gore, who seems to have lost much of his credibility after all the time he spent in Washington.

At any rate, what I like about the TNR article is its focus on the party itself rather than the candidate per se. I watched during the primaries as the candidates zigged and zagged and twisted trying to please a base that was more interested in indulging its anger than winning the election. It was a frustrating thing to watch, especially knowing that the average Democrat wasn't interested in the same things the average activist was. If the Democrats are going to establish credibility on credibility in the future, someone in the party is going to have to face down the extremists in the base and make them choose between being Democrats and being Naderites.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. My take on the
Southern Moderate governor type is that is what worked in 1992. It appears that many Democrats are trying to now run back to that mold, after this election. But that mold is broken...because Bill Clinton was the right candidate who ran at the right time for the right era. That can't be duplicated exactly the same...because times have changed now.

I made mention that National Security has to become part of the qualifications and the dialogue now...because we live in a different era and time than when Clinton ran.

Of course Domestic issues are still part of the package, and moderation for the value voters does count for something. Even having a non senator run next time is a good idea. But some Democrats activists don't seem to want to understand that there really are terrorists out there....Heads are really being cut off....airplanes really did hit buildings...Democrats and Republicans and others really did die in those towers....North Koreans really are wanting to go all out Nuclear and cause trouble by selling weapons to terrorists. When combining those realities with the manner in which the Bush administration has played up fear and marginalized all kinds of freedoms....many voters have been made fearful. Those that won't accept that National Security is now an important part of the president's job will back the losing candidate....and scratch their ass after the election and again try to figure out what happened.

In 2004 many activist were focused on the wrongs of War in Iraq...and thought that just a war hero would do just fine. They forgot about the war on terror and that is what most Americans are actually most afraid about (Bush made sure of that). Kerry wasn't a National Security expert....and if he was, I never heard anything him speak of anything he had done that would make me think that he was all that qualified in that area. He may have done some things...but that is not what he chose to hammer home. It was not a coincidence that the only thing you heard coming out of the Republican convention was War on terror, 9/11, war on terror, 9/11.

And you are right...the activists who select candidates during primaries become minority voters during General election time. So activist have to think like General election voters while dealing with primaries. They kinda of did in selecting Kerry, in trying to get to the "electable" candidate... but then fell down on the job by taking the media's word on the type of candidate Kerry would be.... Heck, many of us saw that "Tidy Bowl" vet website even before the primaries were decided.....but the Kerry camp tried to keep it under wraps instead of giving activist the refutiation points to blanket the media with. How could we fight without having the facts and the go ahead?

Democrats must face reality...and can't continue to live in Lala land....where Terrorism is just an election mirage fabricated by Bush and his minions. When the general public perceives that Democrats once again are serious about understanding their fears and concerns, Democrats will win.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
6. Perception is everything
I am naming no names here because names don't matter right now..... it is all about perceptions

......... The perception that the dem candidates are left wing radicals in brooks brothers suits

......... The perception that the dem candidates are weak on defense/security issues

......... The perception that the dem candidates are all over the lot in pandering to one special interest group or another

And it is to counter these perceptions that we need to consider a candidate who is not of that mold. Look at Chimpus Khan for a clue. No long record. A history, to be sure, but no long record. You had to take him for what he was, sort out his history, and in the final analysis, go with the perceptions, for better or worse. We need a candidate that is acceptable to democrats across the breadth of the party, but who will also appeal to the "persuadable" voters on the other side. I am not saying we need to pander at all. I am surely not saying we need to change our stance on anything.

I *am* saying we need to run a candidate that is **perceived** by the persuadables that he represents their values or at the very least, he represents a person they could trust.

Perception is reality.

Perception is everything.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 02:43 AM
Response to Original message
8. Of course--
--why would we need a bunch of those people motivated to do doorbelling and give lots of money in small amounts?

The TNR grassroots fantasy can never happen. No way in hell will significant numbers of people give up major chunks of their free time (and a lot of their spare change) to promote NAFTA, the PATRIOT Act and wars of choice. On a second thought, there are such people--but they only work for the Rethugs.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Thank you! A voice of sanity!
The whole "national security" shibboleth is nothing more than a cover for the REAL issue, which is what the moneyed elites are doing to our planet in order to further their own ambitions for power and wealth.

TNR sides with the Ruling Class, so they need to impress upon the masses that there are nasty enemies out there (communists, Al Qaeda) that only the properly deferred to Ruling Class powers can protect you from.

It's a f**king sham. There would be no "threat" from Al Qaeda if the U.S. Ruling Class wasn't busy building an empire. TNR is lecturing "liberals" to make proper obeisance to the Ruling Class -- screw them!

sw
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