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Scalia To Synagogue - Jews Are Safer With Christians In Charge

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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:14 PM
Original message
Scalia To Synagogue - Jews Are Safer With Christians In Charge
Published on Thursday, December 2, 2004 by CommonDreams.org

Scalia To Synagogue - Jews Are Safer With Christians In Charge

by Thom Hartmann

 
Antonin Scalia, the man most likely to be our next Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, turned history on its head recently when he attended an Orthodox synagogue in New York and claimed that the Founders intended for their Christianity to play a part in government. Scalia then went so far as to suggest that the reason Hitler was able to initiate the Holocaust was because of German separation of church and state. The Associated Press reported on November 23, 2004, "In the synagogue that is home to America's oldest Jewish congregation, he noted that in Europe, religion-neutral leaders almost never publicly use the word 'God.'" "Did it turn out that," Scalia asked rhetorically, "by reason of the separation of church and state, the Jews were safer in Europe than they were in the United States of America?" He then answered himself, saying, "I don't think so."

Scalia has an extraordinary way of not letting facts confound his arguments, but this time he's gone completely over the top by suggesting that a separation of church and state facilitated the Holocaust. If his comments had gotten wider coverage (they were only noted in one small AP article, and one in the Jerusalem Post), they may have brought America's largest religious communities - both Christian and Jewish - into the streets. Born in 1936, Scalia is old enough to remember the photographs that came out of Germany when he was a boy - they were all over the newspapers and news magazines at war's end. It's difficult to believe he wasn't exposed to them as a teenager, particularly having been raised Catholic. And if he missed all that, one would think that his son the priest would have told him about them.

The photos that can be seen, for instance, at www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm of the Catholic Bishops giving the collective Nazi salute. The annual April 20th celebration, declared by Pope Pius XII, of Hitler's birthday. The belt buckles of the German army, which declared "Gott Mit Uns" ("God is with us"). The pictures of the 1933 investiture of Bishop Ludwig Müller, the official Bishop of the 1000-Years-Of-Peace Nazi Reich. That last photo should be the most problematic for Scalia, because Hitler had done exactly what Scalia is recommending - he merged church and state.

Article 1 of the "Decree concerning the Constitution of the German Protestant Church, of 14 July 1933," signed by Adolf Hitler himself, merged the German Protestant Church into the Reich, and gave the Reich the legal authority to ordain priests.

Article Three provides absolute assurance to the new state church that the Reich will fund it, even if that requires going to Hitler's cabinet. It opens: "Should the competent agencies of a State Church refuse to include assessments of the German Protestant Church in their budget, the appropriate State Government will cause the expenditures to be included in the budget upon request of the Reich Cabinet."

That new state-sponsored German church's constitution opens: "At a time in which our German people are experiencing a great historical new era through the grace of God," the new German state church "federates into a solemn league all denominations that stem from the Reformation and stand equally legitimately side by side, and thereby bears witness to: 'One Body and One Spirit, One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God and Father of All of Us, who is Above All, and Through All, and In All.'"

Section Four, Article Five of he new constitution further established a head for the new German state-church with the title of Reich Bishop. Hitler quickly filled the job with a Lutheran pastor, Ludwig Müller, who held the position until he committed suicide at the end of the war.

Which brings up one of the main reasons - almost always overlooked by modern-day commentators, both left and right - that the Founders and Framers were so careful to separate church and state: They didn't want religion to be corrupted by government.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1202-33.htm
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. OMG
He is just out of control. He must be wetting his knickers with excitment over the W win and Renquist needing to be replaced soon.

Get my a bucket - I'm gunna hurl.

JTT
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. Just when I thought these jerks couldn't appall me further...
,,,,they appall me further.
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ithacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. the theocrats are emboldened
and starting to make clear their intentions.

Even CNN allows Falwell to host crossfire. And what exactly are his credentials other than being an extremist?

The GOP has been hijacked by the "Religious Right". For all the details check out Theocracy Watch, at http://www.TheocracyWatch.org/

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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Speaking of Protecting Christianity
"The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press-- in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of LIBERAL excess during the past years." Adolf Hitler
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Vincar - is that quote for real?
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. YES it is. Sad isn't it?
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. History repeating
Sounds something like Scalia would say.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Germany did NOT have separation of church and state under Nazis
and definitely did not before 33

Scalia knows no history....US citizens know no history
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Sara Beverley Donating Member (989 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Hitler and the KKK used Christianity to spew their hate.
The same is happening now with the Christian right. They will pesecute Muslims and any other religion not RW-funddie. The truth be known, the secretly despise the role the Jews played in the crucifixation of Christ as taught in the Bible. The most biggoted and racist Americans in history were Bible-thumping Christians who lynched blacks and attacked Jews all over this nation. That's why the alliance between the RW-funddies and Jews is so mind blowing to me. But the alliance serves the agenda of each so I guess it makes sense.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. What a load of hogwash. There was absolutely NO separation...
...of Christianity based churches and the Nazi German state. That's why it was so easy to persecute a small minority of people who believed differently and had been historically blamed for the ills of society as a whole.

This article is an excellent response to Scalia's hate-mongering.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. Excerpt:
"Throughout most of the 1700s in Virginia, a citizen could be imprisoned for life for saying that there was no god, or that the Bible wasn't inerrant. "Little wonder," notes Cousins, "that Virginians like Washington, Jefferson, and Madison believed the situation to be intolerable." Even the oppressed Quakers got into the act in the 1700s. They finally found a haven in Pennsylvania, where they infiltrated government and promptly passed a law that levied harsh fines on any person who didn't show up for church on Sunday or couldn't "prove" that s/he was home reading scripture on that holy day.

Certainly the Founders wanted to protect government from being hijacked by the religious, as I noted in a previous article that quotes Jefferson on this topic. But several of them were even more concerned that the churches themselves would be corrupted by the lure of government's easy access to money and power.

Religious leaders in the Founders' day, in defense of church/state cooperation, pointed out that for centuries kings and queens in England had said that if the state didn't support the church, the church would eventually wither and die.

James Madison flatly rejected this argument, noting in a July 10, 1822 letter to Edward Livingston: "We are teaching the world the great truth, that Governments do better without kings and nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson: the Religion flourishes in greater purity without, than with the aid of Government."
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
8. Fat Tony has a deal I can't refuse? My answer: "Fuck you, Fat Tony!"
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. What Jim said.
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. synopsis: "why, pogroms only happened under secularism!" -Scalia
:eyes:

and does certifiable insanity legitimize removal of a Supreme Court Justice? no, because Scalia is still on the bench...

so how far around the bend must we be before this madness ends?
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. Remember to visit this link...
...that visually disputes Scalia's silly claims:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
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The Flaming Red Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. Scalia is bonkers. He just gets worse and worse.
Can we have him declared mentally incompetent to stand over trials?
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SCRUBDASHRUB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. WTF? Scalia don't you have an orgy to get back to?? Then again,
banish that thought (shudder!). :puke:
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Why?
It is amazing that no one within the Christian community is challenging this nutcase. Anyone have the email addy for Jimmy Carter?
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The Flaming Red Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. he didn't get any ducks on that hunting trip. Maybe they had an orgy
Maybe ducks were involved in another way. hint hint
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. Oh, Dear God.
I have nothing else to say.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. I wonder if there are Jewish voters out there who voted Republican
and who are regretting it now.
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MRKARNO Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
19. Scalia is an idiot
Last time I checked, Pope Pius XII actively helped out the Nazis, or at least was partly in cahoots with Hitler and Moussalini. What about the Spanish inqusition? What about all of the British laws descriminating Jewry from living with equal rights? What about pretty much every Christian country until WWII in Europe descriminating against the Jews? When Secular states were allowed, the Jews began to have more rights. Scalia is a tool of the radical, extremist Christian Right whose arguement is attempting to mislead Jews into voting for a President who doesnt share their values (Tzdeakah (charity), Tikkun Olam (healing the world), etc.).
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. I bet Scalia had been alive during Hitler... he would had been...
kissing every Nazi boot he could find.

he probably would had been 2nd in command under Pope Pius XII
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. He was
He was a boy. He certainly remembers Hitler, and not just from history books. The dumbass.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. I should had clarified the situation...
scalia old enough to be involved and living in Germany at the time.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
23. Everyone will believe it because Scalia and others will keep repeating it
Edited on Fri Dec-03-04 12:26 AM by LiberalFighter
And that is what they are counting on.
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LimpingLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
25. Except when you look at Europes history.
Jews were safe so long as they converted.

Otherwise its "get out or die" time.

Maybe you can consider the once Christian areas and ceetainly Muslim in the Mid East where Jews werent treated so badly.Infact it was a refuge.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
28. That's our Tony
The man who mused that democracy and Enlightenment values were a problem because they undermined the divine authority of the state. That the death penalty was no thang because we're a nation of believers and believers know that death isn't The End. That Catholic judges who oppose the death penalty have an obligation to resign -- nevermind the Pope's pronouncements on the matter, they aren't "binding."

And that's the reason when you hear rightwing clots talk about "strict constructionists" you should reach for your gun. Tony's the original and the nonpareil of the bunch that flies under the cover of that dishonest title.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
29. Christians are safer with the lions in charge
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
30. Has Scalia had his physical?

He and Bushy Boy need twin couches.

We need some serious mental one on one time for both of these idiots.

OMG!

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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
31. Scalia is morphing into a syphelitic Al Capone right before our eyes
what next, shall we be finding him barking at a full moon on the banks of the Potomac?
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
32. Sheep fire Shepard, Contract Out Security to Wolves

On the impression that their chief danger is some bear.
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MsConduct Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-04 03:14 AM
Response to Original message
33. Yikes! That's all I can say, I'm dumbfounded. n/t
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