Did Kerry throw the election?

[maxsmom]

Bellaciao.org seems to think so! Read it and come to your own conclusion.

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4534

[aquart]

1. Well, let's see.

You have a low post count and have posted a thread head that has deliberate incendiary intentions.

Also, no quotes from the article.

Hmm. Don't think I'll go there. Could be computer cooties.

[JohnnyCougar]

3. Don't bother...nothing but hyperbolae there

[maxsmom]

6. Oh, I forgot . . .

Only people who have spent lots and lots of time posting absolutely not much worth reading are viewed as worthy. And, as this is still a democracy, and there are always two sides to a story, and people may want to get another point of view, I post this as a discussion piece.


Friday 26th November 2004 (18h41) :
Kerry’s Silence Indicates Complicity with Vote Fraud

Go to JohnKerry.com and you will find absolutely nothing about the mounting evidence of vote fraud- why? There is no mention of the official voting receipts found in the garbage, or about the vote suppression in Ohio, or about the GAO starting an investigation into the 57,000 reported cased of voting ’irregularities’ nationwide. 13 Members of Congress have asked for an investigation into the voting problems, heaven forbid JohnKerry.com mention that. Why is it that VoteNader.com and VoteCobb.org both address the voting problems right on the front page, but the Democratic ticket of Kerry and Edwards won’t address the issue at all?

read more here http://bellaciao.org/en/ (for a not so popular opinion but something you may want to discuss and may even want to ask for further explanation)

[Mike L]

58. He's probably a Green Party member.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. That's our Johnny!

Adam Weisburg's puppet.

/me smacks forehead and vows to strangle the first person who mentions ZOG or The Illuminati or Bilderburgers sans Cheese without laughing and pointing.

Next up: The Wit, Wisdom and Essential Humanitarianism of Milton William Cooper.

[flowomo]

4. It's total lunacy....

but not any moreso than some other things I've seen on DU lately. And the guy keeps ranting about $50 million. I believe the correct figure is $15 million. And the rant is outdated -- the Kerry folks are active in Ohio now.

[notadmblnd]

5. I read today that bush had 15 million left over too

and I haven't heard anyone bitch about it yet.

[flowomo]

7. ah, he needs it for the big inauguration party....

or maybe to pay those guys who fixed the voting machines.

[DenverDem]

8. 15 mil is small change compared to what they really paid

to fix the election.

What do you think all those billions that were "mislaid" in Iraq went to?

We're talking literally trillions over time.

[flowomo]

10. didn't that other guy say they bought the election for $29 mill?

jeez, that's Wal-Mart prices. Or maybe that was only for a few precincts. If I had trillions, I wouldn't buy an election, I'd buy a whole country outright (talk about an "ownership society"). Or at least a group of islands.

[DenverDem]

12. $29 mil is a steal, literally.

"If I had trillions, I wouldn't buy an election, I'd buy a whole country outright"

I think that's basically what has happened over the last four years.
"Today amerikkka, tomorrow the world."

[ohioan]

25. "Dear Jack: Don't buy a single vote more than is necessary...

I’ll be damned if I’m going to pay for a landslide."

--- telegram that JFK jokingly claimed his father sent him during the 1960 campaign.

[DenverDem]

30. Not germain.

So that justifies what happened in 2004?!?!?! "Hey, JFK did it."

Fucking BULLSHIT.

[ohioan]

31. My, my, aren't we a little testy this morning?

A rather odd and over-the-top reaction to an amusing - and quite germane - anecdote.

Take a breath.

[DenverDem]

39. Not germain.

This is the exact incidence that is used universally to excuse every excess the wrong wing has perpetrated since.

Hardly an over the top response to a bullshit publican talking point.

Don't bring that shit in here and expect not to be challenged.

[ohioan]

59. What makes you think anyone was making an excuse?

Your hysteria is causing you to try to spin my comment into something that just wasn't there.

And, by the way, if you're going to continually use the term, you might want to spell it right - the word is "germane," as is my point.

Now, calm down and watch your language when addressing me.

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. Why do you think they needed to get those poppy fields

in Afghanistan back on line. That was a major source of funds to oil their war and political machines.

[DenverDem]

22. Good point.

Forgot about the CIA's smack trade.

[ebayfool]

23. $15,583,806 n/t

[bunny planet]

40. He needs it to buy back the Presidential yacht that Jimmy Carter had the

temerity to sell. Didn't Jimmy know that Emperor* was going to need that expensive toy.

[lthuedk]

9. Nonsense.

[whistle]

11. Well, the site is not too dangerous although it could be flame

. . . based. I see no evidence at all documented in the article that suggests Kerry had no plans to win the presidency. As for Kerry not spending all of the funds he had available to move the electorate to his side or begin pumping funds into immediate recounts, that is a matter of campaign management. Even the amount of money Kerry was supposed to have had left was an exaggeration and he is now helping fund the recount in Washington state.

I see no reason why Kerry would throw good money into something that states may be required to fund or that if fraud is uncovered must be investigated and paid for by the federal government. So, I'm willing to accept that John Kerry knows what he is doing and will take the right action as the events unfold. I am also not convinced that this election has been an honest appraisal of the will of the people and that sooner or later the truth will come out that illegal actions were taken to ensure a Bush victory. But that too will take time and investigation.

Neither the democratic party nor the American people are willing to accept the results of the vote counts on face value and will demand validation especially with the mounting evidence pointing to questionable practices surrounding counts in many precincts in multiple states. This election is not over by a long shot.

[Bridget Burke]

14. maxsmom: Did you vote for him?

I did.

[maxsmom]

15. yes, I did

and I encouraged everyone I knew to vote for him too. I'm just very concerned how this has all been handled, and would really like some explanations that make sense. I do feel as though the people who supported Kerry need to know why he didn't truly fight for the Presidency, especially after the election, and lord knows he had plenty of ammunition. Why is it that so many others are so much more vocal than the Kerry camp concerning the vote manipulation? It was pretty blatant, and they're just now getting around to sticking their big toe in on the Ohio issue?

The good people who supported him are all spinning their wheels trying to figure it out, spending lots of time, money and energy speculating and blaming others. I would just like for these same good people to be told the truth, whatever it may be, so that they can truly move on and spend their resources more wisely.

[MNBiker]

16. The Facts "as I have seen them"

Some of that money was from the primary campaign and couldn't be used after a certain date. I don't know how much more money was needed, it seemed there were 3 ads an hour, my mailbox was full and the phone rang off the hook...If we spent all that money in Nebraska would it have mattered? Give me a break, this article is BS...Last thought...If more money was needed, it would have been spent....and paid later...

[bemildred]

17. I don't find the idea strange at all.

I've been watching politics in the USA for forty some years now.
I voted for Kerry, but I refused to give the DNC money because I
half-expected he would run to lose. I'm sorry to be right. When
you have seen it as many times as I have, you learn the signs.
Repubs run to lose too, think Bob Dole.

It's not so much a matter of running to lose as making winning a
lesser priority than maintaining the status quo, not providing the
people with a real choice, not challenging the Washington consensus.

It's not necessarily deliberate, some of it is just timidity and
group-think at work. Kerry quitting like he did was the most
egregious example I can think of though, after taking all that money
and making all those promises, and then saying pull together and get
behind the pResident. What a fighter, eh?

[insane_cratic_gal]

19. We just don't know the facts

We really have no idea what is going on in Kerry's head. We have no idea if he shut-up himself or was told to shutup.

We don't know if the party told him to step aside, to not tarnish the democrats name in 2006, for gaining more seats. There could be things going on behind the scences we are unaware of.

There are all sorts of things we do not know. I think time will tell.
All we do you know is come Jan. we will have a better idea of how Kerry is going to interact with the Hill. His call for votes on a child's insurance bill. Insight into the things to come? Getting a movement of we the people to take back congress? How much can you do with these Fundies sitting in?

What I really want to see in Jan. is how the moderate reps are going to react to this new nazi congress. The split in the reps is bigger then the divide in the dems. We may eat our own, but their policy of fall in line or shutup, is going to wear on nerves like you've never seen before.

It should be an interesting year, lets wait and see before drawing any conculisons.

In the mean time we can still fight for electronic voting machines to carry a paper trail. Lets just focus our attention on what we can do. Give em hell every step of the way.

[bemildred]

21. Like I said, I've been paying attention 40 some years now.

Mr. Kerry is just a bit player as far as I'm concerned. But I don't need
to wait another year to reach some conclusions either. Whatever is in
his mind, there is no doubt in mine the system is rigged and the two
parties are in corrupt collusion with each other to thwart democratic
government.

[WoodrowFan]

18. complete crap

gee, thanks for letting us know about another site full of crap. :eyes:

[Cheswick2.0]

20. no

I see no reason to believe he threw the election.

[blm]

24. Yeah. It was obvious during the debates that he let Bush win all 3 easily.

What did you conclude?

[ohioan]

26. And clearly, the multimillionaire Kerry had nothing better to do with his

time than to spend the last year and a half busting his ass running around the country pretending to be trying to win an election he fully intended to give to Bush.

Right.

[robbedvoter]

27. No, just the post-election. The article is pure BS

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. last person to say kerry and awol were in cahoots was seventhson

i wonder if maxsmom is seventhson's nom de plume..

[NoSheep]

29. Stacy?

[leftofthedial]

32. the fix has been in since the coup of 2000

when gore rolled over and played dead.

This is a dictatorship masked with just enough of the safely neutered trappings of free discourse and deomocracy to keep us all playing the game.

was kerry a willing participant? From Nov. 3 on, I believe it is likely that he has been.

[PATRICK]

35. Something bigger than Gore or Kerry

is how the GOP took the vote reform issue over! Whenever a Democrat brags about how they are working hard or retooling HAVA I merely have to look at who really is getting the system "fixed" in their own behalf. Often Dem officials like SOS's seem strangely happy with the results.

Not just the machines but ALL the crookedness in star relief in Florida was there. Very little has improved and certainly nothing total or decisive. Racial profiling and vote suppression with near impunity. All manners of tricks, rarely if ever even noted. Intimidation. Trashing of votes. And on and on. The party can barely dream of defending itself and one singles out Gore or Kerry? The huge pattern takes the wind out of blaming the individuals.

The obvious was ignored and not planned for and not beaten back and nor challenged when it happened all over again- by the party.

That's not a political party in any definition of the term. Daley would be rolling over in his multi-grave that this is the form of Democratic innocence today. Can't do it, can't fight it, can't think it, won't say it.

[Dover]

33. I thought maybe they were going to pull a Nixon and allow him to be

re-elected so that they could impeach him early in his second term.
I'm dreaming of course......but liked thinking that they are actually building a case and will release the dogs soon. Of course I still believe in Santa too!

[ThorsHammer]

34. Why?

I'm not so sure I'd want that if it means Cheney will be President. I'd have rather just defeated Bush last month than try to get him after the election. Unfortunately, we're stuck with him for 4 years, and I hope like hell he doesn't run the country into the ground.

[Dover]

37. Well my little fantasy scenario would have included Cheney and others

based on various litigation and criminal allegations that have been swirling around these guys for some time.

Like I said......just easing my own pain with a little fantasy.

[ThorsHammer]

38. Good point

As bad as Bush has been, Cheney may be worse. At least Bush is out in the open where people can see what he's doing, whereas Cheney is usually at some 'undisclosed location.' I probably misread your post and was thinking that you should be careful what you wish for, as impeaching Bush may harm more than it helps. I don't know what the provision would be if they're all forced out.

[The Wielding Truth]

48. Like the Gang of Five? Nice thought,Maybe......

if we find out that Cheney and Halliburton engineered
this with he help of old time Rep plan to take over the Mideast oil followed by the Russia.
If we only had tons of proof.It could happen.

[St. Jarvitude]

53. Gee, then we get President Hastert!

Won't that be a barrel of fun? :eyes:

On the bright side, we'd get a seat for the Dems in the House.

Does anyone know who the first Dem in the line of succession is?

[mtnsnake]

36. The only thing Kerry threw was the towel

I doubt he threw any election, but in the end I think he may have been relieved he didn't win it and didn't think it was worth fighting for. It kind of pissed me off how relieved he looked when he threw the towel in.

[zulchzulu]

41. What a load of garbage

A little tinfoil hat theory here peppered with a tinfoil hat theory there with a touch of some other tinfoil hat theory and....
mangi la merda di cane!!!

[RetroLounge]

42. and you just happened to stumble across this site

and come post it here.

Why?

Never mind, I already know...

RL

[maxsmom]

46. no, you don't know, you just think you do

I happen to check www.whatreallyhappened.com daily and it was on the reading list today.

You know, the more posts I read on this site, the more aware I become of just how narrow minded and uninformed some of you really are. When someone posts something that could lead to an honest, forthright discussion, many of you trip over yourselves to criticize and condemn. The world is in deep shit right now, and it's getting deeper by the day, and some are just trying to make some sense of what is going on by discussing the issues with other, like-minded individuals, or even with those who don't agree but can still carry on an intelligent, thoughtful conversation.

I thank those of you who responded rationally. I would have truly welcomed a good discussion with most of you.

[NoSheep]

49. I too am shocked at how cocky and rude some responses are.

Disagreeing is one thing, and an important part of why we are here; but some are accusatory and mean. What's that all about?:shrug:

[bemildred]

50. Yeah, I agree, I get tired of the "great leader" worshippers.

This is supposed to be a democratic republic, we're not supposed to
run around worshipping leaders, we're supposed to run the place
ourselves, and throw these swine out if they don't do as they are
told. And it's annoying when people start in with the name calling
and incivility just because you question their cherished assumptions
about the saintliness of some politician.

[m berst]

55. welcome maxsmom

I can easily see where a rational person would have legitimate concerns about the motives and intentions of the Democratic party. The "bones" speculation and other things that blogger says are over the top, but it looks to me that he is mostly just ranting to express his frustration and sense of betrayal.

The gang running the Republican party seized power by channeling the vague sense many people have that things are wrong into scape-goating liberals as the cause of their distress. People are correct to think that they are being shafted, of course, but are being led to blame the wrong people. That same dynamic seems to be taking over among Dems and here at DU. Everything is black and white, and people are channeling their bitterness and frustration into attempts to identify, isolate and attack the bad guys mostly using hints and innuendo. So you have to be 100% in support of anything and anybody that others support or believe in, with no questions asked, or you run the risk of being accused of being one of the bad guys.

The accusers are accusing the accusers of being accusers - shoot first and ask questions later, and if anyone tries to defend themselves - well, then that is taken as PROOF that they are guilty. And guilty of what? Wink, wink, you know - being one of "them" - if you get my drift.

[RetroLounge]

57. "Read it and come to your own conclusion"

I did, sorry you didn't like it.

RL

[genius]

43. Could be right. I just don't think he really cares about the voters..

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. spoken like a true genius (nt)

[skip fox]

45. Gee. This is a legit hypothetical attempting to explain

what seems inexplicable to many of us.

Some on this board might do well to act as though they believed in free speech and difference of opinion.

[From the south]

47. I dont think so

But Terry McAuliffe didnt do him any favors by moving the primaries up.

[BillZBubb]

51. Not throw, but blow.

He blew it.

[w4rma]

52. No. (nt)

[shance]

54. Only Kerry, and perhaps a few others, knows the reasons for his actions.

I don't have the answers and neither does anyone here that I know of .

However, to become defensive and try to intimidate those who apparently have the capacity to see value in exploring the bigger picture and the importance in acknowledging the truth, is both absurd and immature.

We deserve the truth, so we can better know what is happening in our election process.

Again, I dont have an answer to this current situation regarding this election, however the facts and actions by candidates and the parties continue to show important information that bears some scrutiny.

One good thing is to take a look at history, which is always a great compass*. From what I have observed in taking a review through our history, the continuation and acceptance of misinformation/lies over the truth have led our country to this *exciting* place we are today.

Our denial to accept the reality before our eyes has led us to this place as well.

We have been comfortably disconnected to the destruction and demoralization of the Democratic process since the lies behind JFK's death and the protection of those who were involved in such a huge assault on our nation, done by those here in our own political system. It has further allowed more arrogance and more harm to fall on our best leaders. The allowance of scapegoating by right-winged interests towards MLK, Bobby Kennedy, Malcom X and JFK continue to allow more abuse to occur on us as citizens and our government, which is supposed to be an instrument of good and fairness, not a pigs trough for the wealthiest one percent and corruption who may speak about hope and truth and justice and turn around and cut some deal in a hotel room. We are all capable of doing it, and that is why we must all hold each other accountable. The more lies that are allowed to occur in the name of power and privilege, Democracy will continue to die a little more.

On the other hand, the more truth that is promoted, protected, defended and VALUED, the more Democracy will continue to grow and thrive a little more every day.

We all must learn to better accept whatever truth is the reality today. It does no good to protect ourselves from what potentially could be and/or is the reality in whatever aspect of life we are talking about. If Kerry threw it in and he betrayed his supporters, well at least from the way it "looks" there is a possibility. Not a warm and fuzzy possibility, but a human possibility that needs some accountability and truth if it is indeed the case.

I hope whatever the case we will know the truth, because from healthy community perspective we have to know. When people don't realize the consequences of their actions, people continue to do what WORKS for them. Even if its creating wars and killing innocent people, or if its rigging elections.

Our responsibility is to make sure we hold ourselves and others accountable to the truth.

In order to correct broken-ness of this system, we have to know WHAT IS BROKEN, corrupt, whatever.

We seem to have some pretty broken parts involved in this election which are allowed to continue due to secrecy, and as a result of that secrecy, it continues to attack the integrity of our nation and our party system.

[m berst]

56. we know that we don't know

And we know that we need to know, and that we have a right to know.

That applies to every argument going on among Democrats now IMHO. Rather than puling together in the cause of demanding to know the truth, we destroy each other over it.