VOTE FRAUD FOLK, READ THIS NOW: HEARINGS!

[WilliamPitt]

From Kevin Spidel of Progressive Democrats of America:

===

Friends,

As you know, we are in DC lobbying our allies on the Hill this week. Our
grassroots have made it clear that their main issue of concern right now is
the election recount and potential fraud in Ohio. We took that message from
you at the grassroots to our meeting with staff in Conyers' office.

Conyers' staffers put us in touch with the folks who pushed the Government
Accountability Office (GAO) investigations. We also left with the press
release you'll find below; they specifically requested that PDA get it out
to our base. Next was a visit with the Minority Legal Council, who informed
us about hearings on the irregularities in Ohio being held by the House
Judicial Committee this Wednesday. Conyers' staff has invited PDA to attend
these hearings on the Hill on behalf of the thousands of grassroots
activists who have been writing us and asking PDA to put pressure on the
Democrats. Rep. Conyers and his staff have been allies all along. We will be
coordinating efforts to assure your voices are heard during these hearings.

Stay tuned!

Please read the release and forward it far and wide!

You can download the letter at:

http://www.spidel.net/ohblackwellltr12204.pdf

Kevin Spidel & Tim Carpenter
Progressive Democrats of America
http://www.pdamerica.org

[knowbody0]

1. fresh air to breathe

thank you

[Patsy Stone]

2. Wow. Warren County!

I've been DYING to know...that IS my TFH theory.

Spectacular to see it in .pdf also.

Thx.

[texpatriot2004]

3. Hey thanks WilliamPitt this is great. n/t

[WilliamPitt]

4. Concurrent thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x106915

[clover]

5. quick question for the levelheaded and more mature types here:

is this as big of a development as it seems to be? i'm one of those "feeling" types, an old beatnik fella, and this feels significant, but i am often misled by intuition, so i call on right-brainers for their assessments. thank you.

[Newsjock]

6. In a properly configured and functioning media

... yes, this is what we call FREAKIN' HUGE. The big giant question: Will our lame 21st-century infotainment media follow suit? I hope yes; I fear no.

[clover]

7. thanks newsjock.(nt)

[WilliamPitt]

8. Well, I'm going down to cover it

so if the 'mainstream' buttheads take a pass, the alternative media will be all over it. Again.

[clover]

9. once this process starts rolling--well, i guess it already has--

will it be as powerful, with or without MSM coverage? does it require public support to keep moving? or is it, as i hope, unstoppable? thanks in advance for helping me to understand.

[WilliamPitt]

11. Without MSM coverage

it will be the mouse that roared. But it'll keep roaring. One of these days, either the MSM will get hip to the program, or enough people will throw up their hands and go alternative that the MSM will become irrelevant, like infomercials.

One can hope, anyway.

[clover]

17. thanks, william. (nt)

[Brundle_Fly]

16. More power to you Mr. Pitt

I look forward to your reporting.

[Cheswick2.0]

25. thanks for doing what you do

it is important.

[The Wielding Truth]

36. Will sounds like your head is all better. Good trip. Thanks.

[Cheswick2.0]

24. I think you mean left brain

Your are intuitive and feeling....that is right brained. It is the opposite of what it seems it should be. Left brained people are the logical thinking people.

[asjr]

58. Thanks . Now I know what is wrong with me. I do not have an

ambidexterous brain. I only think with half of it.

[BareskinMatt]

10. What fraud is being focused on?

Is it any and all voting fraud or just that which may be pinned on the republicans?

[WilliamPitt]

Read the .pdf

[flyarm]

38. thank you , thank you WILLIAM PITT!!

as a retired 33 yr flight attendant american airlines ( ny based)...i worked so hard on this election and fought so hard to get truth out...
i prayed for kerry , for he stood in front of me several times and promised we would have a real investigation into 9/11..i worked hard for kerry..as i knew that he was the only chance we had for truth...for my co-workers who died that day, and for people from my home town who lost their lives that day..
we are as a people and a nation doomed without the truth!!


thank god we still have a few investigative reporters left...please keep up your search of the truth..all of us are at the mercy of the truth, and the few of you that are left!! MERCI' MR WILLIAM RIVERS PITT!!

[sweetladybug]

60. Sure BareskinMatt, all voting fraud. But please tell us where the

Democrats have committed wide spread voting fraud like the Republicans have.

[BareskinMatt]

63. No clue

I'm waiting and looking for any and all fraud. Let the chips fall where they may.

[lavendermist]

12. Hey Will,

:hi: You can be eloquent in one thread and then turn around and be informative in another. Thanks a bunch. You are an inspiration to me.

:kick:

[WilliamPitt]

13. Thanks!

:)

[shraby]

14. What were the electoral vote counts

for Bush and for Kerry? If neither gets Ohio, where does that put them?

edited to add:
I notice they mentioned the down-ballot votes for Connally, I wonder if they are aware that in New Mexico two Democratic Judges on the ticket both got more votes than Kerry...a substantial amount. It looks a tad smelly to me.

[Brundle_Fly]

20. final if ohio is removed from total

Bush 266 Kerry 252

[flyarm]

40. DO REMEMBER KERRY...AND IRAN CONTRA& BCCI

we all assume kerry is not involved in this...its a big assumption..if this election gets turned on it's ear..we could have a constitutional disaster..kerry knows that, hes a brilliant man..he needs to be insolated as much as possible in this ..so he can be presidential should this be overturned...he knows that...
he also has a long history with the bush crime family..remember kerry was in deep with the bcci investigation..and remember one of the bush boys was eyeball deep in it..and got off almost scott free ..we pthe tax payer paid off the debts of the bushes in that one...and kerry was the guy who blew the whistle on iran contra..kerry knows what he is doing folks...and he knows who and what he's up against..and he knows this will be a blow to our democracy..and our credibility world wide..he has to stay insulated to be able to take office without putting this nation into a horrible crisis..we will be in a crisis no matter what..but it can be kept under control if fraud is proven in a judicious way...
kerry knows this has to be proven by others..so he keeps out of the fray...so he doesnt get slimed like gore did ...he has to look and act presidential in every way...so he loses no credibility ..here at home and abroad...
thats how i see it..and i see nothing that makes me think otherwise..

the silence everwhere is deafening from all the activists in power postitions...i would bet the farm that there is so much going on that we can not be privy to...but just remember..kerry is a prosecutor , edwards is a top notch lawyer, kerrys brother is a lawyer..peter angelos is good friends of kerry another top notch attorney...( how hates bush) and the majority of lawyers in this country backed kerry...they know what they are doing...and they are nor fools...this is being played out like a fine tuned instrument!!

these are my opinions...fly

[KerryReallyWon]

46. I agree, Kerry is in on this all the way!!!

Kerry new about computer fraud in 2000 and 2002, and obviously prepared himself in many ways for this.

[buddysmellgood]

50. I agree. The alternative is far to depressing.

[Nothing Without Hope]

64. I really, really, REALLY hope you're right!

I agree, Kerry's weirdly quick concession and his near-invisibility since then, along with some parsings of the wording of things he's said since the election and some other odds and ends do support an active behind-the-scenes role. And then there was Bev Harris' comment in a Nov 5 DU post that her team was not the only one looking for computer fraud. She never enlarged on that comment, and I wondered at the time if Kerry people could be on the case.

I'm hoping very hard here, but Kerry is running short on time. Let's hope the hearings spark non-invisible investigations and that the recounts show some big discrepancies. One of the big fears is that the number fixers covered enough of their tracks to make proof difficult. Despite rumors of coming exposures, that's still a big hurdle.

My sister-in-law, who considers herself a progressive Democrat, literally laughed in my face when I told her that I believed that the election was stolen. "What!? You want me to believe that every network news channel has deliberately blocked this? Come on, this is still America!" That kind of blindness isn't uncommon and requires major, undeniable PROOF not just of "discrepancies" but of outright theft of the election.

So, like I said, flyarm, I really hope you're right about Kerry. These are fearful times.

[tblue37]

79. My own son,

also a progressive Democrat, insists that I am just into conspiracy theories because I hate Bush so much. And my daughter, also a progressive Dem, refuses to believe that they would dare try anything like that.

They aren't dumb. My son has a master's degree and my daughter is a very successful second-year medical student. They both follow politics. But this all seems "impossible" to them. Obviously it's denial. Some people just can't accept the possibility that the US suffered a coup in 2000 and again in 2004.

It's akin to the technique of the big lie. This crime was so audacious, so out in the open, that even many people on own our side can't wrap their minds around the possibility.

[Nothing Without Hope]

86. Yes, it's brazen and "unAmerican"

I think our mutual experience of smart, progressive people rejecting outright the possibility of election theft is one of the biggest hurdles we face in trying to expose the fraud aggressively. They not only can't believe that something so big, so brazen could have been pulled off without the major media saying a word, they can't give up their comforting trust in their view of what America is. What happened is the opposite of democracy and it is brutal and criminal -- they can't accept that without admitting very painful doubts. They'd rather go on believing something comforting and false.

This is very hard to overcome.

[demo dutch]

66. You are so right,! there have several articles written about this

scenario, specifically by Betsy Velasquez in the Moderate Independent

http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i21election.htm

[Spangle]

41. Ohio 20 electoral votes

The present tally is
Bush 286 + 34
Kerry 252

If Ohio's votes are tossed
Bush 266 + 14
Kerry 252

If Ohio's votes are given to Kerry
Bush 266 - 6
Kerry 272

This isn't even considering other states which had problems as well.

[shuffnew]

77. And what is the status in Nevada?

There's another one that if contested, the Nevada electoral might be tossed, right? Any other states?

If Ohio votes are tossed, giving Bush 266 and Kerry 252 case... neither would have 270 required to win. Then what would happen next? Overturn and start over?

[intheflow]

70. The first paragraph of the letter stated it's a nation-wide investigation.

My guess it that they know. They're getting pelted with emails.

[GingerSnaps]

15. Thank you Will

You gave me hope again tonight. It's been a difficult time for me after fighting for 4 years and knowing inside that BBV existed. I believe that we all had the feeling deep down inside of us that something was going to go wrong on the electronic voting system but we didn't want to accept it. When it happened it hit me like (excuse me for saying this) a ton of bricks.

What I had felt deep inside was happening and it took me a long time to get home after my last class on election night. Over the past years your messages and articles have brought hope to my life and you don't know how grateful I am to you.

We must fight for our Democracy or we will no longer be a free country. I wish that we could make the republicans understand that our fight is for the entire United States and not just for our party alone.

I pray to God that the election is overturned and the rightful winner John Kerry will be able to be inaugurated as our President. My ancestors go back several hundred years in this country. I had ancestors that fought for the North and the South. I was brought up to love this country and I care so much for our country and I respect everyone that lives in it and visits it. I was taught to be proud of where I came from and what our rights stood for.

I hope to God that we will be able to take back our country before it's too late but something inside of me keeps saying that it's going to be a long drawn out fight.

I am so happy that you are here to fight for us. You are a wonderful and caring person Will. Thank you for fighting for us through your writing, teaching and activism.

Peace be with you! :hug:

[Kevin Spidel]

18. .

kick

[Desertrose]

23. Hey Kev!!!! ....you & Will totally rock......

:hi: a big :hug: and many thanks for your unceasing work!!

You guys team well together :)

:loveya: from the red rocks :hug:
Desertrose

[Kevin Spidel]

43. kathy!!!!!

i miss you! i still have your medicine bag in my car! that is why we rock!!!!

[hippywife]

69. Welcome to DU, Kevin!

Sorry I missed meeting you when you came to OKC to work with Skye and Bob and all of us Kucitizens. Thank you so much for all you are doing.

:hi:

[DeepModem Mom]

19. kick

[understandinglife]

21. Missoula Independent: Does Not Compute

A nice summary of various studies and something those following the Conyers hearings may find to be a useful 'primer,' as topics include "A Rat is Smelled," "Vote Stealing 101,".....

Link:

http://www.missoulanews.com/News/News.asp?no=4508

Introductory paragraphs:

2 Dec 2004

Does not compute

by Alan Waldman
Watchdogs want to know: Did every vote count?

Talk radio and the Internet are abuzz with suggestions that John Kerry was elected president on Nov. 2—but Republican election officials made it difficult for millions of Democrats to vote while employees of four secretive, GOP-bankrolled corporations rigged electronic voting machines and then hacked central tabulating computers to steal the election for George W. Bush.

The Bush administration’s “fix” of the 2000 election debacle (the Help America Vote Act) made crooked elections considerably easier, by foisting paperless electronic voting on states before the bugs had been worked out or meaningful safeguards could be installed.

The Wall Street Journal recently revealed that “Verified Voting, a group formed by a Stanford University professor to assess electronic voting, has collected 31,000 reports of election fraud and other problems.”

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Peace.

"Did Bush Know?"

[Rambis]

22. Kick

:kick:

[NoSheep]

26. Yahoo! KICK!

:kick:

[MsUSA]

27. Keeping this info kicked.

[meganmonkey]

28. Oh Yeah!!!!

This isn't going away, is it?! WE WON'T GIVE UP!
:D

[Botany]

29. What do we have here now?

From Conyers letter to Blackwell; 3,100 person appear to have registered on one
day in 1977 in Perry County, Ohio. :wow: A rural small County.

Their is so much info in Conyers letter to Blackwell the results in Ohio must be thrown out. :toast:

Come on folks, it is time to fly some Ukrainian Flags. To Everybody out there
please come to Columbus, Ohio 12/04 @ the Statehouse from 1:00 to 3:00 PM.

If you can not please contact everybody you know and ask them to please attend.
We need #s! :grouphug:

[On the Road]

30. Hope is Hard to Come by These Days

but this is really promising. Especially since it's moved beyond statistical evidence to things like this:



Now, THAT'S some hard evidence that will make the GAO turn over a few more rocks until they find something. And when they do, it will be part to keep it on page 6.

[Botany]

31. Perry Ohio = The Smoking Gun

The over vote is bad but 3,100 registrations on one day in 1977 seems damning
to me.

:kick:

[LaloCeli]

32. Check this link (Democracynow.org)

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/03/164231

[intheflow]

71. Welcome to DU, LaloCeli.

Most excellent first post! :hi:

[gtar100]

33. Is there leverage with this letter?

I'm too much of a political outsider to know if this letter holds any power to move someone like Blackwell to comply with the information requests. I think it's great to see the requests but what if the guy just stalls? From what I've seen I don't expect Blackwell to do a damn thing about it. Is there any clout behind this letter that would move these criminals to expose themselves, let alone in a timely manner?

[Laughing Mirror]

35. I'd like to know the same thing

What happens if Blackwell fails to respond by December 10, the date requested him in the letter? What's the next step?

Wonder if Blackwell will read the letter. It's an excellent letter laying out the facts as we know them, with a few surprises. MY congressman is one of the co-signers and that makes me happy. I do hope Blackwell at least reads the letter. Hope he shares my footnote fetish too, because I would love to see his face when his eyes alight on footnotes 47 and 48 Id.

Bob Fitrakis, How the Ohio Election Was Rigged for Bush, The Free Press, Nov. 22, 2004.

Wonder if he read that report?

[The Wielding Truth]

37. Yes, for everyone that doesn't write you speak for them and it is

very important.

[intheflow]

72. The letter should carry weight.

It's from a sub-group of the House Judiciary Committee, and signed by four US Representatives. It is in conjuction with the an investigation being undertaken by the Governmetn Accountabiity Office (http://www.gao.gov).

When it goes for review before the entire House Judiciary Committee, it is a stong, heavily documented legal argument for fraud. Obviously, there are Republicans on the Judiciary Committee, but the pattern of all these aggregious voting irregularities will be hard to deny and impossible to suppress.

This memo is very hopeful. Welcome to DU. :hi:

[InvisibleTouch]

34. Thank you, Will!

Be safe, and keep us informed!

[Megahurtz]

39. This is good, BUT

We should have a RE-ELECTION after the recount!
There's enough evidence and proof of fraud to have the election THROWN OUT. Any chance of us pushing for a re-election? (Without the stupid "Bush owned machines" of course)

Even better yet how about if Bush DEFAULTS THE ELECTION TO JOHN KERRY DUE TO FRAUD!!!

HA! Wouldn't that be justice?

[shance]

52. You're right. We need to focus on a 2004 RE-ELECTION.

We continue to harm ourselves by not giving ourselves *permission* to be asking for literally what we DESERVE, which of course is a re-election.

The hampster spinning is doing little to promote progress, its the continuation of falling into the same patterns by sticking with the safe, easy non-effective path does nothing essentially to right the tremendous wrong that has just ocurred in our name.

We need to be going for the truth and we should be demanding the illegitimacy of EVERY, SINGLE election that ocurred on November 2, 2004.

And, like you mega, said the evidence is astounding.

If this were the Republicans, can you imagine how much there would be be screaming, the usage of tax payer money to ignite paid-for protests, and there would be havoc being wreaked on every governmental institution imaginable.

You are right Mega. We continue to go for bread crumbs when we should be demanding the steak that we ordered and PAID FOR.

[Megahurtz]

57. MISVOTE! or miselection?

Sorry shance, I didn't see your reply until now until now (I'm new).......

I really do agree that there should be a re-election. Do they not declair a mistrial in criminal court cases when the evidence was wrongfully gathered, and then throw out the whole case?

Obviously the 2004 votes were "wrongfully gathered" and the truth will come out.

We should speak up for our rights and declare a MISVOTE!...(or miselection?)

And how can the newsmedia keep a cap on this for much longer? Aren't there any democratic news stations ANYWHERE out there? Are they ALL controlled by the GOP? How and why are they ALL on lockdown?

[intheflow]

73. I was thinking that when I heard about the Ukraine re-voting

that's supposed to happen the day after Christmas. Wouldn't that be a great Christmas present here--doing a UN monitored re-vote? Well, I can dream...

[understandinglife]

42. Press Advisory -- 8 Dec 2004; 10am EST

PRESS ADVISORY

Congressman John Conyers, Jr.
Fourteenth District, Michigan
Ranking Member, Committee on the Judiciary
Dean, Congressional Black Caucus

------------FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
December 3, 2004
CONTACT: Dena Graziano [phone]

CONYERS AND OTHER CONGRESSMEN TO HOLD FORUM ON VOTING IRREGULARITIES IN OHIO

Rep. John Conyers, Jr. and other Representatives will be holding the first congressional forum on election irregularities in Ohio, the pivotal state in the presidential election. The forum will include leading advocates, election experts and investigators who have reviewed the myriad of election day and recount problems in Ohio, as well as numerous individuals who experienced problems and outright disenfranchisement on election day. Among other things, the forum, which is open to the public, will concentrate on many of the issues raised in letters from Ranking Member Conyers and other Members to Kenneth Blackwell (http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/ohblackwellltr12204.pdf).

WHAT:
"Preserving Democracy - What went wrong in Ohio?"

WHEN:
Wednesday, December 8th @ 10:00am

WHERE:
2237 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, D.C.

WHO:
Rep. John Conyers, Jr.
Rep. Melvin Watt
Rep. Robert Scott
Rev. Jesse Jackson, Founder Rainbow Push Coalition
Kenneth Blackwell, Ohio Secretary of State (invited)
Ralph Neas, President, People For the American Way
Jon Greenbaum, Director, Voting Rights Project, Lawyers Committee For Civil Rights Under Law
Ellie Smeal, Executive Director, The Feminist Majority
Warren Mitofsky, Mitofsky International, Coordinator of National Exit Poll (invited)
Prof. Robert Fitrakis, Editor, The Free Press
Cliff Arnebeck, Arnebeck Associates
John Bonifaz, General Counsel, National Voting Institute
Steve Rosenfeld, Producer, Air America Radio
Shawnta Walcott, Communications Director, Zogby International
##JUD-108-12/3/04##
\

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001018.htm

Peace.

"Did Bush Know?"

[intheflow]

74. Who's attending is interesting: Fem. Majority, AAR, Zogby, PFAW...

Your post also has the info for the .gov document, which makes it a creditble, mainstream source. The original link was from an unknown source, and could have been a manipulated letter or just a fake.

Thanks, understandinglife. :toast:

[TankLV]

44. Why is it the ONLY the DEMOCRATIC candidates had problems?

All "lost" absentee ballot applications were DEMOCRATIC
All machine "errors" went against DEMOCRATS.
All thrown-out ballots were for DEMOCRATS.

Any "mistakes" and "tests" of network or government items ALWAYS favored Repukes.

Any "jokes" were ALWAYS at the expense of the Democratic Candidate?

Why is that?

Why has NOBODY asked these questions?

[rdmccur]

62. Then Let us ask them!

Damn it let's pound our reps and senators with questions like that!

45. Fraudulent Election

Can there be any doubt that the election was rigged in many states for George the Stupid to win. There are simply too many inexplicable mysteries for there not to be some shenanigans afoot.

[cantstop]

47. All disputes have to be settled by 12/7

Date for Determination of Controversy as to Appointment of Electors
States must make final determinations of any controversies or contests as to the appointment of electors at least six days before December 13 meetings of electors for their electoral votes to be presumptively valid when presented to Congress. Determinations by States' lawful tribunals are conclusive, if decided under laws enacted prior to election day.



http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/electoral_college/2004/dates.html#dec7

[WilliamPitt]

48. This isn't about getting Kerry into the White House

so much as it is about saving the right to vote. I hold out no hope that this past election can be reversed, but the next one...

[donhakman]

49. and the next one and the next ect.

2 words

Warren Commision

[Megahurtz]

54. you're right William, but if only

we could right the wrongs of the 2004 election, this one reeks the worst of all of them!

I'm just dreaming anyway.......but the security of future elections are most important (and our feeling secure that our votes WILL be counted.)

[Liberty Belle]

59. It SHOULD be about putting Kerry, the legitimate winner in

the White House. If Bush "won" by cheating, he should be in jail. I find it a stretch to believe he had no inking of this, don't you?

[Megahurtz]

61. MISVOTE! or miselection and Bush defaults to Kerry

Again, we should speak up for our rights and declare a MISVOTE, or miselection.
And since Bush won by cheating he should be IMPEACHED!

(jail would be appropriate, but I'm sure he'll just buy his way out)

[tavalon]

68. I wondered what your point of view on that specific point was

I guess I shouldn't have. When I first saw you a couple of years ago at a teach-in conference in Austin, I told my boyfriend that you appeared to be the male equivalent of me, at least from a political and thought process point of view.

Short comment: me too.

[intheflow]

75. Not true. We have until January 6th.

That's when Congress convenes to confirm the electoral count. If evidence of fraud was compelling enough, Congress could overturn the electoral college vote.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6533008/#041121a

Even a Republican Congress might overturn it. It would be too big a story to hide. It's hard to run for re-election when you support an election that was conducted fraudulently.

Welcome to DU.

[buddysmellgood]

51. How is it that these official vote tallies are approved by a bipartison

commission. If there are Democrats in these precinct/counties, is it that the votes are being tallied and sent for verification over their protests or are they caving in? What's the story there?

[intheflow]

76. I have also wondered this. n/t

[Jo March]

53. Beautiful.

Will, you are one of the reasons that I have hope. Thanks for posting this.

I am getting more and more excited as the days go by.

Great news indeed.

[understandinglife]

55. Their invitation to Mitofsky can be found here:

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/mitofskyelecinfoltr12304.pdf

Peace.

"Did Bush Know?"

[WilliamPitt]

56. TRUTHOUT REPORT ON HEARINGS

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/120404W.shtml

[stevedeshazer]

65. ...

:kick:

[demo dutch]

67. I see "Voter"gate written all over it!!!

[shuffnew]

78. Bush's Ohio Win Was Closer Than Thought...

According to below article, Blackwell plans to certify the vote on Monday because the margin of difference w/o requested recounts is not small enough to have "automatic" recount, but Kerry and others have the funds for the recount. So, if these efforts on fraud and recount are successful, I assume that even if Blackwell "certs" on Monday, that the Ohio electoral could be overturned even after Blackwell's "cert", right?

Bush's Ohio Win Was Closer Than Thought
12/03/04 15:01
By JOHN SEEWER
http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20041203%2F1501481509.htm&sc=1131

<snip>
TOLEDO, Ohio (AP) - President Bush's victory over John Kerry in Ohio was closer than the unofficial election night totals showed, but the change is not enough to trigger an automatic recount, according to county-by-county results provided to The Associated Press on Friday.

Bush's margin of victory in the state that put him over the top in his re-election bid will be about 119,000 votes - smaller than the unofficial margin of 136,000, the county election board figures showed. That means Kerry drew closer by about 17,000 votes.
<snip>

[Proud liberal Kat]

80. posted your links in my one Mom board...

i suppose every little bit helps. I want people to at least take 5 seconds to give it a thought...I am not sure how much the problems and fraud changed the actual results it could be basically nil to the whole kit and kaboodle in my thoughts. but no matter which it is...it just blows my minds that so few care that we can and will never know which it is with the way we have set up our own systems. In the place that is supposedly a bastion of democracy for all the world:eyes:

[hickman1937]

81. I have a question

If black box fraud is proven, and it looks alot like it will be, can diebolt be sued? I mean till it really hurts?

[Kevin Spidel]

84. OK FOLKS - READ THIS

Published on Thursday, August 28, 2003 by the Cleveland Plain Dealer
Voting Machine Controversy
by Julie Carr Smyth
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.htm


COLUMBUS - The head of a company vying to sell voting machines in Ohio told Republicans in a recent fund-raising letter that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

The Aug. 14 letter from Walden O'Dell, chief executive of Diebold Inc. - who has become active in the re-election effort of President Bush - prompted Democrats this week to question the propriety of allowing O'Dell's company to calculate votes in the 2004 presidential election.

O'Dell attended a strategy pow-wow with wealthy Bush benefactors - known as Rangers and Pioneers - at the president's Crawford, Texas, ranch earlier this month. The next week, he penned invitations to a $1,000-a-plate fund-raiser to benefit the Ohio Republican Party's federal campaign fund - partially benefiting Bush - at his mansion in the Columbus suburb of Upper Arlington.

The letter went out the day before Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, also a Republican, was set to qualify Diebold as one of three firms eligible to sell upgraded electronic voting machines to Ohio counties in time for the 2004 election.

Blackwell's announcement is still in limbo because of a court challenge over the fairness of the selection process by a disqualified bidder, Sequoia Voting Systems.

In his invitation letter, O'Dell asked guests to consider donating or raising up to $10,000 each for the federal account that the state GOP will use to help Bush and other federal candidates - money that legislative Democratic leaders charged could come back to benefit Blackwell.

They urged Blackwell to remove Diebold from the field of voting-machine companies eligible to sell to Ohio counties.

This is the second such request in as many months. State Sen. Jeff Jacobson, a Dayton-area Republican, asked Blackwell in July to disqualify Diebold after security concerns arose over its equipment.

"Ordinary Ohioans may infer that Blackwell's office is looking past Diebold's security issues because its CEO is seeking $10,000 donations for Blackwell's party - donations that could be made with statewide elected officials right there in the same room," said Senate Democratic Leader Greg DiDonato.

Diebold spokeswoman Michelle Griggy said O'Dell - who was unavailable to comment personally - has held fund-raisers in his home for many causes, including the Columbus Zoo, Op era Columbus, Catholic Social Services and Ohio State University.

Ohio GOP spokesman Jason Mauk said the party approached O'Dell about hosting the event at his home, the historic Cotswold Manor, and not the other way around. Mauk said that under federal campaign finance rules, the party cannot use any money from its federal account for state- level candidates.

"To think that Diebold is somehow tainted because they have a couple folks on their board who support the president is just unfair," Mauk said.

Griggy said in an e-mail statement that Diebold could not comment on the political contributions of individual company employees.

Blackwell said Diebold is not the only company with political connections - noting that lobbyists for voting-machine makers read like a who's who of Columbus' powerful and politically connected.

"Let me put it to you this way: If there was one person uniquely involved in the political process, that might be troubling," he said. "But there's no one that hasn't used every legitimate avenue and bit of leverage that they could legally use to get their product looked at. Believe me, if there is a political lever to be pulled, all of them have pulled it."

Blackwell said he stands by the process used for selecting voting machine vendors as fair, thorough and impartial.

As of yesterday, however, that determination lay with Ohio Court of Claims Judge Fred Shoemaker.

He heard closing arguments yesterday over whether Sequoia was unfairly eliminated by Blackwell midway through the final phase of negotiations.

Shoemaker extended a temporary restraining order in the case for 14 days, but said he hopes to issue his opinion sooner than that.

© 2003 The Plain Dealer

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[Kevin Spidel]

85. more just posted on our blog

http://blog.progressivevote.org/index.php?p=131

[Hekate]

82. Go with God, Will Pitt.

Godspeed, PDA.


Hekate

~~~ Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever does. ~ Margaret Mead ~~~

[liberal N proud]

83. Saturday, December 11th hearings in Lorain County, Ohio

I recieved an email just stating that there will be hearings on the 11th and asking for any infomation on any problems encountered on election day in Lorain County no matter how trivial.
Anything from long lines (several hour waits should never happen) to being asked fro ID when nothing has changed regarding your address/voting location/etc. to being told to vote a different day or a different place. Also, if as poll workers, challengers, etc. you saw or experienced anything concerning problems.
As a challenger on Election Day, I am sure I will contribute in some way here.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

87. My mom is usually a moderate Democrat

She believes in privatizing social security, is not too fond of labor unions, and thinks we should give school vouchers a try. But Bush and this election have radicalized her...she is convinced that the election was a fraud...I am beginning to think she is right...I know people who go to Oberlin who waited in line for five hours to vote...imagine how many gave up...I think more people may have come out to vote for Kerry than for Bush on election day in Ohio...unfortunately, it is not something that a recount could correct or that we could really ever know. But I want a national law requiring every precinct in the country to have one voting machine for every 200 voting age residents of the precinct, regardless of past turnout.