No more mister nice Democrat -- Why We Fight -- lefty black ops

[TheWraith]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

We have tried fighting nice. We lost. Yes, they stole the elections, but they did it because they were willing to do that which we were not. That is the measure of this new conflict--whether we are willing to fight rough.

The time has come to stand up for what we believe in. That means fighting hard, and fighting viciously. Turning their own hypocrisy and prejudice against them. Because unlike them, we are fighting for something, rather than against it.

To prove vote fraud, we hack the voting machines ourselves. Either they admit the machines are insecure, or every Diebold election goes to our side.

We pull out every 'pro-life' Republican who's gotten an abortion for his wife or mistress. Out gay evangelists and Republicans. Get out the truth about Pat Robertson's Liberian mining operations. Attack pro-corporate Republicans as being anti-free-market. Smear Reps who introduce anti-gay legislation. Whisper about George Bush's 1972 illegal abortion for his 15-year old girlfriend. Bring up the rumor that the current Governor of Texas was caught in bed with another man. Create a new right-of-Republican party, and run spoiler candidates in critical elections, demanding answers as to whether the Republican supports legalized abortion and other wedge issues.

Our enemies are vicious. Even if we used every piece of dirt known or rumored about a Republican, it would only amount to a fraction of what they've made up about others. If the Republicans manipulate their base into voting for them, we can manipulate them too.

To that end, I am cooking up ideas for a black ops group--a left-wing Karl Rove network, dedicated to the principle of Peace, Freedom, and Justice Or Else. Volunteers, ideas, and suggested targets are always apprecciated.

For my first proposal, I am formulating a flyer to deploy against WalMart stores. The design, based on an fact pointed out by AZDemDist6, is a single 8.5" x 11" sheet of paper with a large type-fact title on one side and a short large-print paragraph on the other.

First side:

WAL-MART SUPPORTS FORCED ABORTION

Second side:

WalMart gets almost 100% of its products from China. China is the only country in the world that practices forced abortion of healthy, wanted babies. By pouring American money into the Chinese regime, WalMart helps murder millions of unborn children every year. Please boycott WalMart, and circulate this note to all your friends.

The idea is political judo--to redirect their own inertia to suit our goals. Print a hundred copies of this and stick it under windshields at the local WalMart. Copy it into an email and send it to the Republican friend or relative who's always forwarding you chain-mail. Fight hard, fight vicious, and fight to win.

[mitchtv]

1. thank you. I thinkyou have the right ideas

my hero is the freeway blogger.I wish we could return Grafitti to its roote" a political voice for the voiceless". I miss the reistance of the 60's. I want to greet So. Baptists on Sunday mornings with Lurid, large poster fotos of mamed Iraqi children for Sunday school consumption,sorta Bring the murder home it's supporters. I am too old and sick to spend anymore time in jail so it's up to you young people.

[pa28]

2. The Wraith.

I don't like the fact that you are right. However, I admit you are.
These examples have particular meaning for me:
Back in '97 Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott declared "war" right here in America. Was the stated enemy Bin-Laden? The Russians? China? No. He declared Democrats the enemy.

In 1993 Newt Gingrich won Congress by saying Democrats were "the enemy of normal Americans" and then shaping a whole campaign around that idea. I've still never seen anything like it. Hate for Democrats and Liberals became fashion.

Wesley Clark Jr. shared a story that I thought was telling. His mother worked for a Republican U.S. Senator and as a result had an intimate understanding of their agenda. She tried to talk her husband out of running for president by saying "they don't want to just beat Democrats, they want to destroy them. All you have is your reputation."

The Republicans won the war before Democrats even realized they were fighting one. As a result we're no longer the opposition. We're the resistance.

[farmboxer]

3. Dems Need To Get Tough!

I can't believe that Gore did not fight back,nor Kerry! We need them to stand up for us, yet they won't even stand up for themselves. However, we can't blame it all on them, the corporate mainstream news media, the voting machines,etc. won the election for Republicans, so we must educate the people out there, send them to DU, that is a start. If everyone would come here, they could learn the truth. They only learn lies from the corporate media.

The truth to a Republican is like a cross to a vampire!

I have to thank the Black Caucus, they stood up in 2000 and they are standing up again in 2004.

[blondeatlast]

13. "The truth to a Republican is like a cross to a vampire!" Sadly, not so.

Read Lakoff's "Don't Think of an Elephant" to find out why this idea just blows back in our face.

Seriously--if you think the truth hurts them, you MUST read this book.

Until you can get to the library or bookstore, check this out: http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/

[stevedeshazer]

33. Nice link

Thanks

[T Town Jake]

4. "lefty black ops"...Uh-huh...

...sounds more like a freepers fantasy of how liberals operate, not reality. The way we win has nothing to do with all these horseshit ramblings you've generously shared with us - but thanks for playing.

[readmoreoften]

6. The way we win? Um, if you haven't noticed...

WE'RE NOT WINNING.

Black ops. Yes. While we still can.

[Nashyra]

21. Yes we are winning in some places.

Some here don't recall the same mumblings and grumblings that we are hearing about the Dems are the same that the Repukes were saying in 1996 when the repukes lost the re-election to Clinton, I think the Dem Govenors who have decided to take a more aggressive role is a good sign. Don't forget that a Dem beat that Coors puke even with all his money, Tauzins puke son lost in LA on Saturday, the special elections in KY an LA earlier provided a win to 2 Dems. We need to look at their success and learn. County and local Dem groups have to get together and continue to work, no breaks, the repukes went to work and worked hard right after the 1996 election. Our local repuke womens group went dormant for a lack of support, our Dem's women group is up and running strong. Support issues in your community that are appealing and get to the local papers and feed the info to them. Everytime we have a meeting, we put something in the paper, this leads locals to know we are working and working for them. Get a local group together and get someone to be a liason to the local Veteran's group, just idea's but we start to win on the local level. My girlfriend is going to church today to bring up the Wal-mart buy in china thing and the fact they are so pro-abortion. All this helps, we have to have the attitude that everyperson, every idea, every effort helps. Individually if we change one persons attitude it snowballs.

[mattclearing]

10. What T Town Jake said.

eom.

[pamela]

5. I agree...

it's long past time to get a little dirty. I have a few other ideas to add to your suggestions.

1. Push polling: I'm not suggesting we call people and ask questions about Bush's black baby but rather a simple survey about any issue we feel should be getting more media attention. For example "Hi, my name is Pam and I'm calling on behalf of Research for Democracy. I'd like to ask you a few questions about voter fraud..."

2. Join right-wing message boards and encourage the wackier posters to take action on things like adultery, divorce and oral sex. Encourage them to call for banning beer sales at sporting events and to boycott Nascar for allowing liquor advertising. That sort of thing. (The average Joe doesn't care when they target gays but just wait till they think that their beer and blow jobs are in danger.)

3. Go to the Nielson website and look in their employment section under "field positions". You can figure out where the Nielson markets are in your state this way and concentrate any efforts for boycotting the media in those areas where you are most likely to find a Nielson family and thereby actually effect the ratings. For example, in Maryland the Nielson markets are in Frederick County, PG County and the Hagerstown area so if I were going to put out a "Boycott Fox" flyer I would go to one of those areas.

Those are just a few thoughts I've had, for starters. This generally isn't my style but this is war.

[SweetLeftFoot]

7. The Wal-Mart thing

If spun right, could be real rocket up the arse of some of those Republicans.

[LauraT28]

8. outstanding!!! I agree with you 100%

I've been saying the same things...I feel you are totally correct and this is what we will need to do.

[mattclearing]

9. Hmmm...

Countering reactionary hate propaganda with more reactionary hate propaganda. Think I'll pass.

[blondeatlast]

11. I LOVE the Wal-Mart idea, and it's just the thing to show the LW won't

play nice.

Go get 'em!

[mattclearing]

16. Deleted by poster, to be moved below.

Deleted by poster

[blondeatlast]

17. Okay, find me a DU post ANYWHERE where I got involved in

the vote fraud skirmish. That's an enormous stretch. I very specifically mentioned the Wal-Mart idea only.

I have no opinion one way or the other on the vote fraud skirmish.

Just copy and paste into your search function:

blondeatlast

Happy hunting!

:eyes:

[mattclearing]

18. Not involving you in that.

Just saying, the post is part of the discussion. I probably should have directed it at the original message. It has been moved below.

My bad.

[blondeatlast]

20. Thank you. nt

[joeprogressive]

12. I totally agree

After watching the Hunting of the President last night I came to the conclusion that we can never win unless we level the playing field, and that means playing dirty. Enron has been taken down, we can do the same to Wal-Mart.

[blondeatlast]

14. Is there a more worthy corporate opponent?

The Left and friends made Nike heel, we can do this as well.

Hey, I made a pun, too!

[Trajan]

15. Wake Up Agent Mike .....

are ya there ?? ...

I understand being vigilant and intense and passionate and resourceful ... but resorting to terms like 'black ops' condescends to the strawman fallacies expounded by those who hate Liberalism ...

[mattclearing]

19. I just think this is the wrong idea.

It turns off people from the system when both parties are morally bankrupt.

This is Ralph Nader's wet dream, because it shows we really are no better than them.

Also, Wal-Mart is the symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. The problem is unmitigated corporate freedom and the abadonment of anti-trust policies...the full-on endorsement of free market policies without Keynesian controls. That can only be addressed through government.

So say we get the Christian right to boycott Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart will still be the only game in town for the majority of Americans that don't give a shit about abortion enough to boycott anything. Meanwhile, we sound as preachy and obnoxious as they do.

The end result? Less people care, less people vote.

Also, while I appreciate the hacking the voting machines idea, the only way that it was possible this time is because there is central coordination of the tabulation and fake FBI officers, if you buy into the Madsen theories. Try and find a way to pull that off enough to outdo the people with that kind of access, and good luck.

Also, you are advocating for vote fraud. Even if to expose the corrupt system, it is highly illegal, and unlike Bush, the people who mess with their voting system WILL get nailed for it and crucified on television. It will be the last nail in the coffin of the Democratic Party.

Then you really will have a Republican majority.

Have a nice day.

[Darby]

22. By doing this we can shut down the elements that suppress our message

[Mist]

23. If nothing else, it would have high entertainment value

[blondeatlast]

24. That seems to be what counts for the MSM, you know. nt

[mattclearing]

25. Can't argue with that. *sigh*

eom

[freelight]

26. I tend to agree...

Playing "nice politics" only works when you have honorable opponents. I think the Republican party used to be more or less honorable many years ago, but these aren't even real Republicans anymore. The real Republicans are shifting over to our side, at least for the time being.
You can't compromise with this kind of opponent, you can't really find common ground. Being quiet and apologetic about our liberal (there's that dreaded word) beliefs makes us look pathetic to the opposition. People who won't vote for an out-spoken liberal (not necesserily to the degree of Howard Dean, who was seen by many as a raving lunatic, but out-spoken nonetheless) sure as hell won't vote for a meek liberal. Nobody wants a meek leader in a time of war.
We have to strand strong, and yes, we do have to fight dirty. We can't play by the rules anymore because the rules have been corrupted. I'd say it's time for a new kind of "revolution". Violence in the streets would do us no good, don't get me wrong, but a "grass roots" campaign against this administration for its remaining 4 years would help. Calling, protesting, putting up signs, billboards, using the media to our advantage, and challenging NeoCon rhetoric whenever we hear someone spout it. Dig up some dirt on them (it's not exactly difficult) and spread it.
It may or may not be too late to put Kerry in office, but even if BushCo stays, it's our duty as supporters of Democracy to give them hell for the next 4 years like they couldn't have imagined. John Kerry was right - they expect us to disappear and are counting on that. So let's not.

[colonel odis]

27. i'm in. these are very bad people who have very bad plans for

folks like us.

they want to destroy liberalism, along with many of the things that make this country great.

we may not be able to win a battle for public opinion, but i believe that turning their tactics on them is a very, very good idea.

[PurityOfEssence]

28. Class Warfare

We need to fight against it, and we need to use the term: the rich are using Class Warfare on everyone else. There are many good and noble people who are rich, and they tend to vote Democratic, so we shouldn't tar all of the wealthy as meanies, but that's about as apologetic as I think we should get.

Tell the fundies that the power elite of the Republican Party is immoral and is laughing at them. Junior is for civil union protections, and he's not going to go after abortion. He's going to toss some money at religions, but only for political support; he's not going to bring more religion into government.

Use the same scare tactics they use against us. Tell them that these guys are greedy monarchists who are trying to take over the world by force of arms in order to steal their resources and subjugate their people. Let 'er rip; I'm with ya.

[Cats Against Frist]

29. "Attack pro-corporate Republicans as being anti-free-market. "

As soon as Democrats come to understand that the "free market" that they associate with heartless libertarianism is a BETTER alternative than corpo-fascism -- I think this WILL be the GOP's undoing. They've not only fooled their constituency into thinking they're for the "free market," they've convinced the left that they're free market, when, in fact their economic policies are anything BUT "free market."

I think we should start this NOW -- but it would involve changing the Democratic stance, a little -- but that's what the Dems should have done when Bush gave the Medicare Pres. Drug handout to the corporations -- he stripped a collective group of consumers of their buying power. VERY anti-free market. Same with barring drugs from Canada. This is corpo-fascism, friends -- and it's worse for the environment than free market, it gets our kids killed in corporate military adventure, it makes the corporation a human, it makes us pay rich people to run their shoddy businesses into the ground because they were greedy, it makes sure that our energy policies are "fixed" behind closed doors, and that we get regressive taxation -- which is every bit as "big government engineered" as they complain the progressive tax system is.

This is a BIG weakness of the GOP -- of course, it's complex, and about one out of every 50,000 of their constituents could probably grasp it, after an all-day course with chalkboard diagrams. But it's worth a shot.

[yorgatron]

30. here's a kick and a "hell yes"

:kick:

[From the south]

31. Did Diebold have any machines in Ohio?

I looked ...and didnt think they did

[TheWraith]

32. Batch reply

First, thanks to all who like the idea. If someone could volunteer a web-hosting spot, I can send them a draft image for the proposed flyer so everyone can check it out.

T Town Jake: No, a freeper's fantasy is of pathetic limp-wristed rollover lefties who stand around and cry because the other guy refuses to fight fair. This isn't Marquis of Queensbury rules, it's politics.

Trajan: You don't seem to be making a lot of sense. I'd love to know what 'strawman fallacies' I'm expounding--it seems to me that the classic image of liberalism is of weakness and pacifism, not strength.

tasteblind: Funny, people don't seem to care that the Republican party is morally bankrupt as you say. And how exactly is us exposing hypocrisy going to devastate the Democratic party, while their blatant lying is allowed to thrive? It seems like a double-standard: they're allowed to rape pillage and plunder, but we're not allowed to pick up a weapon to stop them. When you call it the same, you might as well equate premeditated serial torture/murder with drawing a gun to prevent a mugging.

As for the WalMart issue, think about it. If you convinced fundies to shop elsewhere, it would be an enormous blow to WalMart's cash flow, and could even force them to start carrying more American products again. And the whole point is that it would appear to be a right-winger inititive, not that we would be being 'preachy'.

From the south: I belive only one county in Ohio had any Diebold touchscreen machines, but a large number of them used optical scan systems. Diebold also manufactures machines of that type, though I don't know if they made the ones used in Ohio.

[mattclearing]

34. I care.

Hell, I'm with the Democratic Party because I like to believe it isn't morally bankrupt, despite mounting evidence to the contrary, your post included.

Like I said, Wal-Mart isn't the problem, but it is a pretty big symptom. The point is that knocking a percent or two off of Wal-Mart's margins this Christmas won't amount to dick. Do you really think that Chrazies make up the majority of Wal-Mart's sales?

What's the point? And really, do you think that many Christian conservatives care enough about abortions in China? I highly doubt they care enough to dis old Sam Walton and miss out on rollback prices.

And you didn't even address your proposal to hack the vote, which is not only far-fetched, but also illegal and likely to get you and the rest of the American liberal community shit-canned for eternity.

We win when we appeal to people's higher nature.

You are appealing to our lowest nature, which makes you no better than the Republicans, whether you believe it or not.

[TheWraith]

36. Maybe I'm missing something critical here

But how on Earth is exposing the Republicans for what they are 'morally bankrupt'? They attached a rider to the Homeland Securty bill that protected a vaccine manufacturer from liability for causing autism in children. They grabbed random dark-skinned American citizens and locked them in small boxes without contact to the outside world for months at a time. They used laws meant to safeguard Americans to attack their political opponents. They turned three thousand dead civilians on their watch into the central theme of why they should get another four years. How in the hell does exposing this make us 'morally bankrupt'? I would say we're more morally bankrupt if we don't expose it, and go on like good little suicide doves believing that if we just don't step out of line, someday we'll win by sheer weight of our wholesome goodness.

"We win when we appeal to people's higher nature."

No, we win when people see the truth. If you refuse to fight for the truth it will get buried in a mountain of smears, homophobia, bait, and bullshit. The public makes decisions based on what they're told, and if the other guy is the only one who is up there and talking, your message is never going to be heard.

[mattclearing]

37. The truth?

What, that Wal-Mart sucks? That you can get us all smeared for stealing votes?

I'm more than willing to fight for the truth. But you're willing to attack a single large corporation and attempt to get revenge for electronic vote fraud. What do you honestly hope to accomplish?

Wal-Mart is going to profit wildly next year even if the fundies don't shop there, and you will end up looking like a PETA demonstrator in front of a McDonald's.

And as for your vote fraud strategy...

The Republicans aren't going to let you hack their machines out from under them. Just because they are hackable doesn't mean you can out hack the people that designed the system.

I'm all for playing hardball with these people, but your ideas are not very good. Clever, but ultimately they cause more problems than they solve.

[Eloriel]

35. I disagree

there is no reason and no NEED to become LIKE them (by hacking the voting machines, or engage in any other illegal acts).

I'm all for fighting TOUGH, but not for fighting dirty.

We are armed with the one thing that is more powerful than anything else: the truth. Engaging in any activities that undermines OUR real credibility (as illegal actions would) is exactly the wrong direction -- more than counterproductive, it would be self-defeating and appropriately so.