McClellan storms out of press conf when asked about 2nd coming

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

http://www.commondreams.org/scottie.htm

Scottie & Me
(formerly known as Ari & I)
White House Press Briefing with Scott McClellan
Monday, December 6, 2004 - 1:00 pm
by Russell Mokhiber

Mokhiber: Scott, on the Middle East - many evangelical Christians in the United States are supporting right-wing Jews in Israel who want to rebuild the temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. They (Evangelical Christians) believe this is a prerequisite for Christ's return to earth.

They believe that when Christ returns to earth - they call this the rapture - he will take back with him the true believers. And the rest - the non believers - Jews, Muslims - will be left behind to face a violent death here on earth.

My question is, as a born again Christian, does the President support efforts to rebuild the temple on the Temple Mount?

Scott McLellan: Russ, we can sit here and talk about religious issues. I will be glad to take your question, and if there is more, I will get back to you on that.

Mokhiber: Is he a born again Christian?

Scott McLellan: Thank you. (McLellan abruptly ends the press briefing and walks out.)

[xultar]

1. Is this true? Cuz if it is it is funny as HELL! n/t

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

2. Yes, it's a transcript from Monday's briefing.

I posted the link from commondreams.org, but it is also available on the White House Web Site (without the added comments about McClellan walking out, of course):

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/12/20041206-6.html

[ramapo]

3. Sure it's true.

Mokhiber has asked some great questions over the years. I'm surprised he gets called on.

[xultar]

6. OK, I'd give up 30mins for Mokhiber one night in a hotel room for more of

those. That was great!

[No Mandate Here.]

4. The actual transcript doesn't say he stormed out, but the words are correc

<http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/12/20041206-6.html>

<snip>

Q Scott, on the Middle East, many evangelical Christians are supporting right-wing Jews in Israel who want to rebuild the temple on Temple Mount in Jerusalem. They believe this is a prerequisite for Christ's return to Earth. They believe when Christ returns to Earth -- they call this "the Rapture" -- he will take back with Him the true believers, and the rest, the non--believers, Jews and Muslims, will be left behind to face a violent death here on Earth. My question is, as a born-again Christian, does the President support efforts to rebuild a temple on the Temple Mount?

MR. McCLELLAN: Russ, we can sit here and talk about religious issues, but I'm not -- I will be glad to take your question and if there's more, I will get back to you on it.

Q Is he a born-again Christian?

MR. McCLELLAN: Thank you.

END 1:36 P.M. EST

This is my 1000th post. Wow.

[blondeatlast]

33. Not just funny (though it indeed is), it's a gaping wound in their

"strategery."

[kranich]

5. Not all Christains

follow premillenialism. There are many, like myself, who follow the Reformed creeds and threfore fo not subscribe to the whole "left behind" thing. The only reason I say this is for the edification of any readers and not to start a flame war or religious discussion. The "rapture theories" are relatively modern (circa 1830's) and very popular in the US evangelical churches becasue of the prolific nature of the Dallas Theological Seminary, but you would be hard pressed to find these things being taught in Reformed churches such as the PCA or any of the "State Churches" that originated in Europe. MOst of them subscribe to amillenial or even historic fulfillment (preterism) teachings.

And it is my opinion that dispensationalists and premillenialists (normally one in the same) have shaped the foreign policy of the US regarding Isreal. I believe it is misplaced zeal and the consequences have been tragic, and will probably get worse

Regards

[The Traveler]

7. Sane Christians prefer

to focus on living the Christian way than dwelling on the end of the world. Live honestly, sustain the poor, cultivate inner peace, be a channel for God's love, compassion, and wisdom ... that kind of thing.

Then there's the sort focused on fire, brimstone, death, destruction, fear and all that. A boring lot for the most part. They write long boring novels about the end of the world. Their favorite sport is passing judgment on others.

Actually, when you think about it, the "Left Behinders" sound rather anti-Christian, don't they?

[kranich]

24. Sometimes

there is a mentality of "those people have it coming" and "I can't wait to be with Jesus in heaven while everyone else is in the stew". Some of it may be sour grapes (because you simply cannot have a beer or watch a R movie for fear that Jesus may come at that moment and leave you behind) but to me clean living has it's own rewards.

[Ms_Mary]

40. Well put. I can suscribe to that. nt

[B3Nut]

41. Amen to that...

Amillenial/partial preterist here. :hi:

Todd in Beerbratistan :toast:

[burn the bush]

8. is this smirky Jesus? n/t

[Dr Fate]

9. The GOP is very touchy about the heart & soul of their party.

Why are they not proud of their ideological soulmates?

I dont get it...

[proud patriot]

10. LOL

Give 'em hell Russell

[quaoar]

11. People who actually hope to hasten the end times

Are really not even paying attention to Jesus:

Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. For this reason you be ready too; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will. (Matthew 24:42-44)

[ailsagirl]

12. Excellent point! Do any of them ever READ the Bible?

I like Shakespeare's, "The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose"

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

13. Bernie Ward discussed "Big C" and "little c" Christians last week

...on his KGO radio talk show. "Big C" Christians being the ones who read the Bible, attend church, and do their best to live a true Christian lifestyle.

"little c" Christians are, of course, the George W. Bushes of the world. The ones who throw the "I am a Christian" line on their resume and really don't have a clue as to what that means. It's done so that no one will ever ask a second question: "Oh, George Bush is a Christian and he goes to church...he MUST be a good man."

Not necessarily. Plenty of "bad" people go to church.

CASE IN POINT: Think of how many people could be helped with the $2 million that will be spent to buy the "Presidential Yacht Sequoia" for Junior. Is it ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to shower the Boy King with lavish gifts like this? Was it ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for Stepford Wife Laura "Pickles" Bush to redecorate the Lincoln Bedroom with "golden crowns" right before the election in anticipation of The Chosen One's second term and his glorious coronation?

George W. Bush: "little c" Christian. FAKE "Christian." A guy who got "converted" by a snake handler in a revival tent in Texas and later tried to claim it came at the hands of Billy Graham. It DIDN'T.

:grr:

[kranich]

25. Yeah and the devil does

In the chapters in Matthew where Jesus is tempted, the Devil quotes scripture three times in an effort to tempt him.

[gratuitous]

21. Not to mention this pertinent passage from Amos

Amos 5:18ff (New RSV):

Alas for you who desire the day of the Lord!
Why do you want the day of the Lord?
It is darkness, not light;
as if someone fled from a lion and was met by a bear;
or went into the house and rested a hand against the wall
and was bitten by a snake.

* * *

Take away from me the noise of your songs;
I will not listen to the melody of your harps.
But let justice roll down like waters,
and righteousness like an everflowing stream.

__________

Amos depicts God as weary of human hypocrisy, and communities of faith that loudly declaim their piety while taking no action that would back up their mouthings. We are urged to act with justice and righteousness, caring for the lost and the least of society. We surely see very little of that sort of concern in evidence from the mega-congregations dedicated to their ambitious building programs and quest for ever greater numbers as the symbol of their opinion of God's favor.

[BlueManDude]

14. Israel is merely a piece of real estate to the Fundies

they have no respect for Judaism or those who practice it. Israel is merely where their "end times" insanity/fantasy takes place and where all Jews will either convert or die.

[Supersedeas]

19. property right propety rights property rights-Lord bless 'em

[MsMagnificent]

15. Why don't they just hire "Lying Guy" from SNL & be done with it?

Instead of McLellan

:P


Um, I THINK born-agains have to go to church every sabbath.

And tithe 10% (off the gross end) of their income.


Now... WHO'S born again, Mr. Bush?

[Guaranteed]

16. Man, we HAVE to hit them with this shit more often.

Freaking nutcases.

[blm]

20. I've been pushing that angle for over 4 years now.

I noticed the Left Behind books were actually written for political motives, not religious ones. I then discovered the longtime ties between LaHaye and RevMoon and realized this is pure mind control that would find easy targets in the more vulnerable believers.

Hell, they were HAPPY about 9-11 because they believe it signalled the beginning of the End Times. They really think Bush is there to make it all happen for them.

[Quill Pen]

36. I noticed this immediately

...about the Frank Peretti books ("This Present Darkness," et al) that were all the rage when I was in college. It is very transparent and simpleminded propaganda, in which people who think or even look differently from the accepted White, Western Standard must be part of a demonic/New Age/One World plot to destroy humanity.

[goclark]

38. I totally agree

Bush needs to be asked questions about scriptures off the top of his head.

He needs to be asked in a press conference when did he last go to church and please give his interpretation of the rapture.

He needs to be asked if he speaks in tongues as has been reported.

He needs to be asked why he doesn't set a "religious values" role model and have us see him go to church.

If he says that he doesn't want to disturb a church service, for Home Land Security reasons, ask him why doesn't he invite many of his "Born Again Friends to have service with him, Pickles and drunk twins in the WH.

Seems to me there have been Presidents that have held services in the WH.

Let's call him on all his LIES!
Let's expose his lack of religion for all to see.

[Cronus Protagonist]

17. We can only conclude one of two things here

Bush is not a born again Christian, and therefore he's been misrepresenting himself to the American Christian Community.

Or he is, and he think's a dead man is going to come back and save his sorry ass from the rest of us who plan on putting him in jail.




http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[blondeatlast]

27. I honestly believe the former. I'd like him to speak, one on one,

with Falwell/Robertson/Dobson (choose one) and see how well he could hold up.

His "born-again" credentials are bunk, and I would LOVE to have this exposed to his zealot followers.

It would bring the Radical Right down before our very eyes.

[KnowerOfLogic]

18. YES! Somebody's got to start calling the crazy Armegeddonists on this sh*t

I really think the the best way to handle the "faith" question is to be brutally frank and truthful about the "worldview" of the Bush administration and the people they represent.

[blondeatlast]

28. The best way is to have Bush address it himself, one on one, with

"millenialist" proponents.

He can't; I truly believe he is CLUELESS about the philosophy.

Hell, he'd probably think the whole thing is nutty as a fruitcake; and it IS.

[Nordic]

22. Wow! Next time: questions from Leviticus!

put him right on the spot.

Assholes.

[blondeatlast]

29. Amen, brother (sister?)!

Can I get a witness?

Seriously--it would be the death of the Radical Right AND the fundamentalists; before our very eyes.

[Supersedeas]

39. don't think Rove and Ralph Reid anticipated this?

[radfringe]

23. my questions...

Mr. McClellan, can we cut to the chase for a moment and skip the checking with the President? What is GOD's position on this? has God expressed any preference as to the interior decorating and other architectural features he would like to see? Will God be putting this job out for bid or will he just annoint a contractor?

[BurtWorm]

26. That's an important question.

I'll bet a lot of born-again End-Timers would like to know the answer to that. I'm an atheist and I would, too.

[blondeatlast]

30. One on one with Falwell/Dobson/Robertson (choose one or all).

He couldn't possibly do it; W.rong hasn't a clue about the philosophy, I guarantee it.

On second thought, not the above three, they'd soft pedal the questions.

But get him in a room, live, with a Biblical scholar, and let's see how he holds up.

I would pay through the nose to see that.

[BurtWorm]

34. I don't know if I'd pay to see it, but I wish one of the few journalists

who will be given audience with His Assholiness in the bleak near future would screw up the nerve to ask him about that. He usually says very, very unforotunately revealing things on the subject of his "faith."

[blondeatlast]

35. Exactly. What I'd REALLY like to see is one "journalist," fed up with

not being able to do his/her job the way they dreamed of, decide to chuck it all and FINALLY go for the jugular.

I can see just one pointed question and an insistence on getting it answered, and a few reporters with a modicum of chutzpah left, jumping on the bandwagon. Soon everyone in the room is struck by the sheer emotion of TELLING THE TRUTH and the room erupts into triumphant celebration of the power of a free press!

In the end, Helen Thomas is triumphantly carried back to front and center where she belongs!

Whaaa...what time is it? Oh, damn, it was only a dream...

[Nordic]

37. it's a vital question, the future of the world is literally at stake

with the answer.

If Bush seriously thinks he's gonna speed up the end times and enable Armageddon, well ......

I'm remembering a certain Stephen King novel .......

[blondeatlast]

31. I think this calls for a mass e-mail to the WH.

Very simple:

Does the President support the rebuilding of the Temple on the Mount?

In what manner does he support it, if so?

Is he a born-again Christian? (If he's born-again, he almost HAS to support the rebuilding, as he nor any other "born-again" can't be taken in the Rapture if it isn't rebuilt!)

This wound is fresh and it's wide open.

Anyone interested?

[blondeatlast]

32. This could be HUGE. Nominating for the homepage. nt

[DeminGa]

42. A must read...

Anyone here ever get this email? It was forwarded to me last month, I'm not sure if it made the rounds or where it came from orginally

"Dear President Bush,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however,
regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them:

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not to Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

4. A friend of mine feels that, even though eating shellfish is an
abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there "degrees" of abomination?

5. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

6. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev. 24:10-16)? Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?"

The email goes on, but I didnt want to bore you too much

Wouldnt you LOVE to hear some of those questions asked and answered

And yes, I would sign/or send a letter in regards to the Temple issue

[marc_the_dem]

43. great

This is great... Thanks!

[DeminGa]

44. kick

Sorry for the 'kick'

I just thought that given the climate of things, people might get a 'kick' out of the email I posted (no pun intended ;) )

Threads move so quickly here it amazes me!

[Pathwalker]

46. it's been here before, but go ahead and post the rest, please.

It DOES bear repeating - repeatedly.

Thanks.

[buddhamama]

45. Russell is the man!

How he continues to be given access and actually called on to ask a question one can only guess. :thumbsup: