Is Michael Moore really one of the party's leaders?

[stopthenoise]

I must say that I hope not. While I respect what he's tried to accomplish, I'm put off by his movies. They are misleading. I'm not saying that Farenheit 9/11 was a big lie. But he did manipulate certain facts and presented them in a misleading fashion. I loved Roger and Me, but from what I've heard there are serious issues with the integrity of the film. The great thing about the Republicans is how they've got their crazies out there throwing out ridiculous arguments and beating up on the Democrats, but the Republican establishment never acknowledges them. They do the dirty work and get none of the credit from the establishment. This allows the Republicans to benefit while keeping their distance from the lunes. I feel that the Democratic establishment should behave in the same manner with Moore.

Anyone else feel the same way?

[xultar]

1. You're gonna get flamed...just a warning No, MM is not a leader

he's a pundit and an important one. He's our Ann Coulter except MM is more truthful, better looking, smarter, etc.

Welcome to DU :hi:

[stopthenoise]

5. But Republicans are never associated with ANn COulter

You'll never see a photo op with GW and Coulter.

[xultar]

8. Well I mean come on, I wouldn't let my dogs shit do a photo op with AC n/t

[stopthenoise]

9. I've never seen Bush and Limbaugh either n/t

[scarletwoman]

19. Oh really.

I suppose OxyRush having Dick Cheney on his program (at least twice that I know of) doesn't count?

[Crunchy Frog]

24. What do you want to bet

that you never get an answer to that one?

[mattclearing]

33. Nor did you see one with Kerry and MM.

eom

[Kipepeo]

79. And Micheal Moore is never associated with Democrats

Except by right-wingers who spread whatever lie comes to them.

Come on...I smell something disingenuous...

[Kipepeo]

81. Oh and one more thing

in case you decide not to answer the posts about Cheney and Limbuagh. Hmm...

Michael Moore was not only never embraced by Kerry, as you suggest, he is is not generally considered one of our "crazies," as you call him. I don't consider him a crazy in the least. At least he cites his fucking sources. Coulter and Limbaugh have NO equal in the liberal realm because we couldn't tolerate anyone so fucking stupid. Unlike those sheep repukes, who either don't notice or don't give a damn when their pundits wander into fakeassland.

[Traction]

76. Well, I wouldn't say "better looking"

He's actually an embarasment the way he dresses, always wears a hat, and never shaves himself. We need someone to speak for us that looks like a normal human being, not a fat slob.

[geek tragedy]

2. No, he's not.

95% of the people saying Moore has influence within the Democratic party are Republicans and other wingnuts.

Welcome to DU! (Hope you brought your flame retardant gear)

[brainshrub]

3. Nope. He's a gadfly.

[dogman]

4. Are you a Democrat?

Or an independent like Mike?

[Cheswick2.0]

25. Moore is a democrat

[dogman]

30. Based on his vote for Nader over Gore?

Or his most recent registraion as a Dem for the recent primary. I don't know what he considers himself, I was under the impression he considered himself independent but he may be converted now. I would certainly welcome him to the Party.

[HootieMcBoob]

40. You know that MM was one of the earliest people...

to back Wes Clark for President. He was convinced that Clark would be the best candidate long before General Clark made his decision to run.

[dogman]

Yes

Because he heard Clark defend his right to free speech without personally knowing him. That's what is sad when you see the attacks on Clark as if he is a RW plant.

[Ken Burch]

44. So he voted Nader in 2000...He was back in 2004

It was Gore and Clinton and their buddies in the DLC who caused the Green Party to come into being. They were demanding unquestioning obediance and support from progressives while giving us nothing. Many of us came back this year because it looked like democracy might be restored in the party...However, in the end the Beltway hacks had their way and we got Kerry and defeat.

If we nominate another bland anti-left centrist in 2008, the Democrats will have no right to ask progressives or liberals to continue to vote for them.

[Old and In the Way]

6. An Independent motivated by a sense of social justice.

That makes him A-OK in my book.

[janx]

7. Michael Moore is a satirist.

And a very good one at that. Hyperbole is a standard tool of any satirist.

Look at Jonathan Swift, for instance.

[Zorra]

10. Yeah well, 2 good friends just saw Fahrenheit 9/11 and now are

finally getting the picture of what a fascist monster Bu$h really is. They were horrified and plan to become more politically active.

No, I think Michael Moore brought a good number of voters to John Kerry, and convinced a lot of folks to become politically active.

The crazies in the Democratic Party are the DLC - they were the folks that supported this horrible war in Iraq that began because of Bu$h's blatant lies.

Moore was right, and the DLC was way wrong.

[Crunchy Frog]

11. No, he isn't, and he's never claimed to be.

He's a concerned citizen who wanted to see Bush ousted from the White House and did everything he could to further that end.

He's not even really a Democrat. He backed Nader in 2000. I think he had to register as a Democrat to vote for Wes Clark in the Michigan primary, but I think he's essentially an independent who backed the Democrats this year for pragmatic reasons.

The Democratic establishment pretty much has kept their distance from Michael Moore. Wes Clark got crucified by the media just for affirming MM's free speech rights.

As far as the Repukes keeping their distance from their loons; is that what you call it when W refers to Rush Limbaugh as a "national treasure"?

Are you sure that you're not allowing your perceptions to be shaped by the corporate media rather than making your evaluations strictly based on the evidence?

[Stinky The Clown]

20. Don't forget the big Dick

Can Cheney's being a guest - several times - on PigBoy's show be seen as distance?

[Crunchy Frog]

22. I didn't know about that, since I don't listen to Pigboy

but no, it doesn't sound like distancing to me. I'd say your right on the money with that one.

Looks like the old double standard rearing its ugly head again.

[Stinky The Clown]

53. Ayup!

uh huh

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[housewolf]

13. I don't think he's even a registered Democrat

I saw an interview a while back in which he told the interviewer that he wasn't a registered Democrat. He is a Progressive, but he could be a Green or even some other party, or even an Independent (as I imagine many here are).

Most certainly he has no real influence within the Democratic Party leadership.

[Cheswick2.0]

27. some one posted the link that showed his registration as a democrat

[Crunchy Frog]

36. I think he had to in order to vote in the primaries,

but generally, he's an independent. I know he supported Nader in 2000.

[bullimiami]

14. I didnt think MM was a democrat.

I thought he was Green or Independent.

He is not a party leader. He is a strong liberal and populist advocate. He uses the tools he knows best to expose the issues. Film and Satire.

Im not even sure why this is a discussion.

[Columbia]

49. Moore is a registered Democrat

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0628041moore1.html

[Downtown Hound]

15. Moore is a cultural warrior, not a party leader of any sort

He isn't even a Dem, he's an independent. I think Moore did more to damage Bush than the entire DLC combined. Forget the crap about Moore turing people away from voting for Kerry. I know many people who saw F/911 and were motivated to go out and vote against Bush based solely on that. And I'm curious, exactly what was it in F/911 that was not factual? I hear lots of people say this but they never present an example.

[lindsayg]

16. Just wondering

What did you find misleading? I watched the movie twice and I can't find any lies or distortions. In fact, I'd say just about everything in the movie I read previously in British newspapers...

[intheflow]

17. We need Mike and people like him who push the fringe.

The conservatives have Rush and all of Fox to yank the chains of people on the left. Who do we have? Moore and Jon Stewart (although, admittedly, Stewart is way smooooooother). What we really need is our own tv network, like they have. And let Moore be to the our network what Robertson is to theirs.

You don't like Moore, don't watch him. But he does speak in one way or another for many of us. Personally, I like it when he talks about morals. I've heard him speak twice when he's compared this administration with the guys in the Biblical parable who ask Jesus if a reich man can get into heaven. Jesus replies, "It's easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven." I can't hear that story enough. And I don't think Bush & Co have ever heard it!

[scarletwoman]

18. Yeah, right.

*Someone* would have to have been living under a bridge not to have noticed that the "Democratic establishment" has in NO WAY acknowledged, embraced, or given credit to Michael Moore -- who is NOT a member of the Democratic party, btw.

This is a total non-issue, and doesn't even merit a sarcastic "nice try".

sw

[Bridget Burke]

21. Alas, no. He's a filmmaker.

Please supply us with a list of your "issues" with Fahrenheit 9/11.

Dick Cheney appeared on Rush Limbaugh's show but Michael is a much finer human being than Rush. I'm glad he was on our side this year.

We've had a rash of "let's dis Michael Moore" posts on this board recently. Please disabuse yourself of the notion that you're deceiving anybody.

[zulchzulu]

23. Michael Moore is a liberal Democrat with Scottish ties and connections

http://www.michaelmoore.org.uk/biography.html



The next surgeries planned by Michael and Jeremy Purvis are as follows (4.30pm to 6pm):

* Friday 10 December - Selkirk - Victoria Hall
* Friday 17 December - Peebles - Citizens Advice Bureau, 42 Old Town

Michael holds surgeries on a regular basis throughout the year. The main towns of Galashiels, Penicuik, Selkirk and Peebles are visited in rotation. In addition, in late summer, community advice centres are held in smaller towns, villages and rural areas.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. In many ways, Mike is to the Dems as Coulter is to the Repugs

An attack dog and a polemicist. That's not a bad thing or a good thing. It simply is.

I, for one, would love to have about twenty more Michael Moores.

Did he hurt our party this year? I don't think so. The stuff he put out there stuck to Chimpus Khan more than what they said about him stuck to us. IN fact, the only guy who was arguably hurt by an implied association with him was Wesley Clark, and even that was, at best, a glancing blow.

Moore should join with Luca Brazza to start a school for attack dogs. We can sure use a few.

[janx]

37. Nah.

Moore has imagination and talent.

[Dr Fate]

70. No- Coulter lies. Moore tells the truth. Big difference.

n/t

[Cheswick2.0]

28. please give examples of what was misleading or inaccurate in F9-11

or shush

[Tharks]

29. I think thats been well covered

You can easily find the specific details yourself, I'm sure you know where to find them.

[zulchzulu]

32. State three reasons here, right now & we'll Google it to see who you...

...copied and pasted it from.

Did you see the movie?

[stopthenoise]

45. Here

1. Fahrenheit 9/11 begins on election night 2000. We are first shown Al Gore rocking on stage with famous musicians and a high-spirited crowd. The conspicuous sign on stage reads "Florida Victory." Moore creates the impression that Gore was celebrating his victory in Florida. Moore's voiceover claims, "And little Stevie Wonder, he seemed so happy, like a miracle had taken place." The verb tense of past perfect ("had taken") furthers the impression that the election has been completed.

Actually, the rally took place in the early hours of election day, before polls had even opened. Gore did campaign in Florida on election day, but went home to Tennessee to await the results. The "Florida Victory" sign reflected Gore’s hopes, not any actual election results. ("Gore Campaigns Into Election Day," Associated Press, Nov. 7, 2000.)

2. he movie lauds an anti-Bush riot that took place in Washington, D.C., on the day of Bush’s inauguration. He claims that protestors "pelted Bush's limo with eggs." Actually, it was just one egg, according to the BBC. According to Moore, "No President had ever witnessed such a thing on his inauguration day. " According to CNN, Richard Nixon faced comparable protests in 1969 and 1973. According to USA Today, the anti-Bush organizers claimed that they expected 20,000 protesters to show up, whereas the anti-Nixon protest in 1973 drew 60,000 people. (USA Today, Jan. 20, 2001).

Moore says, "The plan to have Bush get out of the limo for the traditional walk to the White House was scrapped. But according to the BBC, "Mr. Bush delighted his supporters by getting out of his limousine and walked the last block of the parade, holding hands with his wife Laura."

3.

Moore is guilty of a classic game of saying one thing and implying another when he describes how members of the Saudi elite were flown out of the United States shortly after 9/11.

If you listen only to what Moore says during this segment of the movie—and take careful notes in the dark—you’ll find he’s got his facts right. He and others in the film state that 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country after Sept. 13.

The date—Sept. 13—is crucial because that is when a national ban on air traffic, for security purposes, was eased

But nonetheless, many viewers will leave the movie theater with the impression that the Saudis, thanks to special treatment from the White House, were permitted to fly away when all other planes were still grounded. This false impression is created by Moore’s failure, when mentioning Sept. 13, to emphasize that the ban on flights had been eased by then. The false impression is further pushed when Moore shows the singer Ricky Martin walking around an airport and says, "Not even Ricky Martin would fly. But really, who wanted to fly? No one. Except the bin Ladens."

But the movie fails to mention that the FBI interviewed about 30 of the Saudis before they left. And the independent 9/11 commission has reported that "each of the flights we have studied was investigated by the FBI and dealt with in a professional manner prior to its departure."

[eridani]

55. The usual bullshit that has no bearing on the major points

The "Florida Victory" sign reflected Gore’s hopes, not any actual election results. ("Gore Campaigns Into Election Day," Associated Press, Nov. 7, 2000.)

What crap. Did Moore ever say otherwise?

2. he movie lauds an anti-Bush riot that took place in Washington, D.C., on the day of Bush’s inauguration. He claims that protestors "pelted Bush's limo with eggs." Actually, it was just one egg, according to the BBC.

Your honor, my client DID NOT hit the victim with a hammer. It was an axe! Lies, lies, lies!


According to Moore, "No President had ever witnessed such a thing on his inauguration day. " According to CNN, Richard Nixon faced comparable protests in 1969 and 1973. According to USA Today, the anti-Bush organizers claimed that they expected 20,000 protesters to show up, whereas the anti-Nixon protest in 1973 drew 60,000 people. (USA Today, Jan. 20, 2001).

And this has what bearing on any major point of the movie? And when did we see any of this footage on any major TV outlet?

Moore says, "The plan to have Bush get out of the limo for the traditional walk to the White House was scrapped. But according to the BBC, "Mr. Bush delighted his supporters by getting out of his limousine and walked the last block of the parade, holding hands with his wife Laura."

Can we have a URL to the actual news quote, or actual footage of Bush doing the walk?


If you listen only to what Moore says during this segment of the movie—and take careful notes in the dark—you’ll find he’s got his facts right. He and others in the film state that 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country after Sept. 13.

The date—Sept. 13—is crucial because that is when a national ban on air traffic, for security purposes, was eased

MM is definitely oversimplifying. Leaving the country at that time was legal, but you don't mention that these jerks were flown to central contact points within the US during the time when everything else was locked down.

The false impression is further pushed when Moore shows the singer Ricky Martin walking around an airport and says, "Not even Ricky Martin would fly. But really, who wanted to fly? No one. Except the bin Ladens."

The bin Ladens were certainly flying around within the US when Martin was grounded.

But the movie fails to mention that the FBI interviewed about 30 of the Saudis before they left. And the independent 9/11 commission has reported that "each of the flights we have studied was investigated by the FBI and dealt with in a professional manner prior to its departure."

Where 'professional' means that they follow their shut up and superiors' treasonable orders to let them fly the coop, even though at least one of them had firm prior knowledge of the date of the attack. MM wouldn't go so far as to say it, because the chain of events is too complex for a short movie, but Bush needs to be nailed for treason for this. He is an accessory after the fact to 9/11.

[stopthenoise]

57. I understand that the point of his movie...

was not to prove that there were a bunch of eggs thrown at Bush's car. His main point also wasn't that the Bin Laden's were flown out of the country.

Throughout the movie, however, he manipulates images, timelines and quotes to present something as reality which is not. He doesn't explicitly state those things as true, but he makes every effort to mislead.

[eridani]

75. So, how would you sum up his main point?

And how is his main point wrong?

I've noticed that you didn't bother answering any of my points, which tells me all I need to know about how serious you are about 'truth.'

[donheld]

59. sources please

where did you get this information?

[zulchzulu]

63. It's copy and paste from some Chicago Sun Times article by a Freeper

Granted, he probably didn't actually see the movie, but there are plenty of people who can make his mind up for him.

Yawn.

[donheld]

72. thats what i figure the moran

:crazy: God forgive us for thinking for ourselves

[zulchzulu]

62. And the Google to Right-wing asshole Sites goes to:

Freeper Alert!

You didn't answer, Mr. Copy and Paste... did you see the movie yourself or do you have others form an opinion for you?

[LynnTheDem]

87. RIGHTWINGNUT BULLSHIT

Right out of the RIGHTWINGNUT FREEPER handbook.

Hmmm...what does that make you, I wonder...

[Cheswick2.0]

41. no it hasn't

no one has yet to show a single thing in that movie that was inaccurate or misleading. Maybe you can provide me a link?

[Cookie wookie]

64. Total bull.

Someone hasn't seen FH911 or .....

And to compare Moore with Coulter is like comparing day to vampire. Not even in the same kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus or species.

Moore has a perspective on life that he presents in his movies that supports the working guy, the little person, American civil rights, humanity, love, peace and justice. His film Bowling for Columbine proposed as a thesis something that I didn't think was fully supported, but it was a thoughtful examination from the perspective of a true American hero.

Whatever comes out of Coulter's mouth seems to be nothing but venom, hatred, twisted and dishonest. No doubt flowers probably die when she passes by, grass is scorched when she walks on it, and little children probably all cry hysterically whenever she comes near.

[mtnsnake]

31. I hope MM sticks to what he does best, writing & producing, but

I hope he distances himself from any of our future candidates or campaigns. His books and movies are great, and I love him for it, but when it comes to the campaigns, I think he should take a back seat to it all, and just let his works of art do the talking for him. Not everyone loves him like most of us do, and he can come off as being too "in your face" in the eyes of many voters. If he's too closely associated with any particular party or candidate, I wonder if that's really a good thing.

[proudbluestater]

34. I just find it odd

The someone would rag on Michael Moore when the Republican party has soooo many people who are so much worse.

He did not manipulate facts. He told them from his point of view. Same as Faux News, Rush, Coulter do on a daily basis. Actually they out and out lie on a daily basis. And you will fault someone for the Democratic party for a single movie?

The Republican establishment does not acknowledge their "crazies?" Since when? They are given PRIME exposure on a daily basis. Do you ever hear a Republican distance himself from Jerry Falwell's comments? I never have, not one time. They get plenty of credit for their dirty work. When we have Bush appearing on Limbaugh's and Hanniy's shows, that's not exactly distancing themselves.

The Republicans are mean, nasty, demonizers. Michael Moore is nothing like them. Just because he stands up and speaks truth to power, that doesn't make him one of the crazies.

[mogster]

91. Seconded! :-) n/t

[Radical Activist]

35. He's barely even a Democrat at all

He supported Nader in 2000. Still, it only helps the Republicans when we buy into their BS about Moore's movies being misleading. He has backed up every single statement in F911.

[stopthenoise]

38. I guess I poorly worded the question

I am aware that he is not a formal leader of the Democratic Party. I know that he has claimed to be an Independent, Green, etc. The difference that I am trying to highlight between Moore and the crazies on the Right, is that they are seen and acknowledged as somewhat extreme by people on the right. They push so hard to the right that people say to themselves "I know he's going too far, but he's essentially correct." I got the feeling during the past year that a lot of democrats felt that Micheal Moore was some kind of leader. That he had become in many ways one of the faces of the Democratic Party. I wish he was more extreme. I wish that he would be something an extremist. At least then he's not seen as a typical democrat.

[robbedvoter]

42. Name one lie, crazy thing MM said.

[stopthenoise]

50. Didn't say he lied

I said:

"They are misleading. I'm not saying that Farenheit 9/11 was a big lie. But he did manipulate certain facts and presented them in a misleading fashion."

Moore makes a big point about the name of James Bath being blacked out from Bush National Guard records which were released by the White House. The blackout might appear less sinister if Moore revealed that federal law (the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, HIPAA) required the National Guard to black out the names any Guardsmen whose medical information was on the same pages as the records which the Guard released regarding George Bush's health records. In Bath's case, he had been suspended for failing to take an annual physical exam. So what Moore presents as a sinister effort to conceal the identity of James Bath was in fact the legally-required compliance with federal law.

Moore gloats: "What Bush didn't know was that I already had a copy of his military records--uncensored--obtained in the year 2000." Moore creates the impression that he is an investigative sleuth. Actually, the records had been released in 2000. The privacy regulations for the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) went into effect on April 14, 2003, and so did not apply when the National Guard records were released in 2000.

[Columbia]

51. One

"I am an independent, I am not a member of the Democratic Party."

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/entertainment/special_packages/summer_movies/more_summer_movies/8995681.htm



http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0628041moore1.html

[Dr Fate]

71. "Independent" was not an option to check....

...and wanting to vote in the primaries does not make you an official party member.

Its a stretch to say Moore is a "liar" over this.

[cdp]

73. OUCH!!!

That looks like a lie to me. Awful Truth and TV Nation are two of my favorite television shows ever. I think he would do a better job of changing people minds if his movies weren't so heavy handed. Right now, his movies are preaching to the choir.

[LynnTheDem]

89. Oy.

They're crawling out of the woodwork around here.

[Dem2theMax]

77. Not to be nit picky, but that form is dated 1992. MM could have

changed his party affiliation since then. Just a thought.

[LynnTheDem]

88. And the ENTIRE LOG CABIN REPUBS VOTED FOR KERRY.

To do so, they had to REGISTER AS DEMS.

Gee...does that mean the LOG CABIN REPUBS are actually DEMS???

Good grief.

[stopthenoise]

52. duplicate

sorry

[robbedvoter]

39. Michael Moore is a real leader - that a* wipe party has none

So, you go Vichy way, I'll stay the truth way - with or without MM (should he abandon us. I'll thsnk him for past services - like Clinton - and move on)

[Fleurs du Mal]

43. Don't feel the same way

He isn't a leader of the party but he's certainly one of the braver voices. When journalists are being tossed in jail and others shipped to Gulag Gitmo he delivered a scathing indictment of the administration.

Are you telling me you don't tip the scales to your side a bit when trying to convince people your views are right? That's part of persuasion. It is after all a movie. The fault lies with people not expecting him to cast the issues in a particular light and to just drone on like the nightly news.

[EndElectoral]

46. Compare Moore's small problems with Bush's lies in his State of the Union

Give me a break....Moore's film is fantastic...Don't be told that there are one or two minor mistatements swerve you from the crux of the film. Damn, the right can take a masterpiece and turn it into a bush political advantage. IT sickens me.

Moore hits hard at stuff in this film that to this day HAVE NOT BEEN REFUTED!

I only WISH he was a leader in this party!

[robbedvoter]

47. And the small problems would be? (Why give in to the bullies?)

[stopthenoise]

48. Here one

Moore makes a big point about the name of James Bath being blacked out from Bush National Guard records which were released by the White House. The blackout might appear less sinister if Moore revealed that federal law (the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, HIPAA) required the National Guard to black out the names any Guardsmen whose medical information was on the same pages as the records which the Guard released regarding George Bush's health records. In Bath's case, he had been suspended for failing to take an annual physical exam. So what Moore presents as a sinister effort to conceal the identity of James Bath was in fact the legally-required compliance with federal law.

Moore gloats: "What Bush didn't know was that I already had a copy of his military records--uncensored--obtained in the year 2000." Moore creates the impression that he is an investigative sleuth. Actually, the records had been released in 2000. The privacy regulations for the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) went into effect on April 14, 2003, and so did not apply when the National Guard records were released in 2000.

[Radical Activist]

66. So he made no false statements

Nothing you just pointed out shows that Moore had any lies in his movie. Bath's name was indeed blacked out and Moore did in fact obtain an uncensored copy. No false statements were made. Your arguments are about style and tone. Either way, I still have yet to see anyone point out an actual lie or misstatement of fact in F911.

[Dr Fate]

69. The point was that Bath has bizzare connections to the "Good Bin Ladens".

Was that not true? Does James Bath and Bush not have strange connections to the "Good" Bin Ladens?

If the records had been released, then why didnt Pter jennings do a report on it then?

That was Moore's point- a FACTUAL point that Wolf Blitzer & Brit Hume and the rest "forgot" to report.

Good thing Moore did.

Sorry- no sale.

[robbedvoter]

95. I am sure Mr Bath is very grateful for the careful defense you put

up for him. In the meanwhile, MM told the truth - the records were blacked and you are defending/attacking the wrong people.
PS. This convenient HIPAA explanation appeared anout 3 years after MM made his discovery. I bet it was one of the numerous trickles down of W TANG records being found when no one was looking....Do you really want to go there?

[janx]

54. No, Moore is not of that kind.

As I said before, he's a satirist, an artist. He's a writer.

[Cherie59]

56. I have a lot of respect for Michael Moore

He is a man of integrity and is not afraid
to speak up for the truth, even when it isn't
popular.

[stopthenoise]

58. Christ

Almost every view point is unpopular with someone. When it comes to Bush, each side has ~50 million people on their side. I don't think Moore is in danger of standing on his own.

Especially with all that money he made on the film.

[janx]

61. He's a satirist, an artist.

More power to him if he makes money from his work; that's tough to do these days as someone who is not entrenched in the popular culture.

He was able to transcend the popular culture and benefit from it. I don't agree with every point he makes, but I admire him.

[Cookie wookie]

65. Republicans and right wingers are always

jealous of the financial success of others.

[LynnTheDem]

90. Gee IMAGINE THAT! A FILM MAKER making MONEY on his film!

HOW DARE HE!!!

Go back to that other board you post on, dearie.

[mogster]

92. You seem

... almost strangely hostile to MM.

Now, where have I seen this argumentation before...hmmm.. oh, I remember:

On the 100+ rightwing forums I've checked since 911.

[bvar22]

60. OMG.......Another ONE?????

Come on....tell the truth. The truth will set all of you free. You all work for the same regressive PR firm. The odds of all you low post MM haters spouting the identical debunked tripe ALL showing up here over the last couple of days.....those odds would be longer than bush* winning in Ohio.


The SAME tired debunked tripe over and over.

The TRUTH:
Michael Moore is a private citizen who makes funny documentaries. He is under no obligation to provide a "FAIR and BALANCED" film. In fact, documentaries BY DESIGN are not fair and balanced. He is not obligated to provide evidence for the other side. He is under a self imposed ethical obligation to present a truthful viewpoint and use film evidence to back up his viewpoint. Period. He has done that.



The Corporate owned republican party and the CorpoVichey Dems FEAR the populist Michael Moore and are financing a smear campaign to discredit him. You and your low count co-workers come here with the SAME talking points, the SAME approach, even the SAME terminology and phraseology. You are embarrassingly transparent. What do you tell your kids you do for a living? If I were you, I would lie to my children out of SHAME.

Michael Moore earned two distinctions last year.
He was awarded the Palm D'Or,

and he was ATTACKED from the podium at the Republican National Convention. He is one of the only (if not THE only) private American citizens to EVER be attacked from the podium during a National Political Convention. This is how much the CorpoRepublicans FEAR Michael Moore.

If the corpoRepubs and the CorpoVichyDems FEAR Michael Moore THAT MUCH, then he is doing something RIGHT.

You go on, Michael.

[Dr Fate]

67. What parts of F/9-11 are not factual??? Did he claim Saddam had WMDs??

Or are you confusing his 2 hour long movie with the past 8 years of FOX, CNN, and NBC?

Now THOSE are some "misleading" presentations.

So sorry- Moore does a better job at reporting the facts than Wolf Blitzer or Ted Koppel ever did.

If you are going to accuse him of lying, you need to back it up.

[Cookie wookie]

68. Just found "stopthenoise's" source of info on Kos:

http://anton-sirius.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/7/175530/4378

And unless he/she/it is Dave Kopel, it's called plagerism -- see "Deceits 17-23."

As far as that medical record HIPPA req for blacking out Bath's name, Kos says, "The documents Moore shows on screen during the movie, of course, contain no medical information about Bath anyway."

[msgadget]

74. Of course not, he's not a Democrat!

[Kipepeo]

78. WHO EVER SAID he is one of the party's LEADERS?

1) Republicans

2) DLCers, when saying that they don't *want* him to be seen as the party's leader...thus reinforcing the republican spin that he is

This is so stupid. He's in the fucking film industry. He has made it quite clear that he does not want to run for office. He has made a great contribution to the cause of unseating bush. He does not deserve to be vilified by the very side he's helped just because the Republicans and the DLC are doing it.

Fuck the DLC. You've been eating some Republican spin, disguised as DLC condemnation.

[Dem2theMax]

80. "Anyone else feel the same way?"

Nope. Any more questions?

[robbedvoter]

96. "Calling all disruptors" all points bulletin

[Q]

82. Yet another red meat wedge issue from the Right?

Although I make no accusations....sometimes people come to this board just to throw some red meat on the table and watch others tear it apart.

Moore is nothing more or less than an American...an independent film producer who may be anti-Bush*...but isn't a shill for the Left like Fox and Limbaugh are for the Right.

How many threads have there been just like this one since F911 came out? Too numerous to count and all with the same intention to spread suspicion and hate.

[mandyky]

83. What facts did Moore manipulate?

Please be specific.

Moore is not a leader of the Democratic Party, he voted for Nader in 00, instead of Gore.

I really found his Bowling for Columbine eye opening about how the US's gun craziness may be partly a racist thing.

Most of what was in F911 was clips of CSpan and other media's coverage of idiot cowboy. Some was his opinion, and some was from Unger's Hoouse of Bush, House of Saud.

[countryjake]

84. Hey, stopthenoise! Since you brought it up...

could you elaborate on what's wrong with the "integrity" of Roger and Me, please? Are you saying that GM did NOT slam the door on the Autoworkers of this country? Were the eighties all just a bad dream?

It truly isn't necessary to be objective when one feels a righteous rage at the decimation of an entire class of people. Try witnessing the reduction of a certain working-class elite, which is what the UAW once was, full of the big American Myth, gradually smashed down to nothingness, lumpens on the street & piddling prison-fodder for this corporate machine we call the USA! Live it, then get back here & tell us how you feel!

If "crazed loon" (or lune, as you put it) is all you get from Michael Moore, might I suggest that you may need to listen to him a little less subjectively & think about where he's coming from when you watch his flicks. He ain't no Democrat but he's a Working Class Hero when it comes to trying to drive home his point about what is wrong in America.

I don't necessarily agree with everything he's done either, but I certainly admire him for his effort! He has the right idea & he's definitely gotten more attention than any "party leader"!

[ecstatic]

85. Keep in mind, Repugs are very good at what they do

Hello? They own the media!

[LynnTheDem]

86. WHAT???? As in WTF??? He's a FILM MAKER.

Good GRIEF!

NO WONDER the rethug MINORITY owns the entire fucking country. Look how easily the NON-rethugs swallow the rethug bullshit!

[GreenPartyVoter]

93. Not a DNC leader, but a leader for those left of center

You may not like what he always has to say, but at least he speaks out! Something one would think leadership ought to do.

------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[tsuki]

94. No, he is a voice. And I think that he has

given 110% of himself. I admire him.

Plus, before you start tearing on MM, consider, he has won the admiration of the RWNJs. They are planning to emulate his success of F9/11 by trying produce movies that will capture grassroots.

Good luck guys. I think they are all Celcius 41.1 Jobs myself, and that being the case, their movies will be boooriinng.

[Cuban_Liberal]

97. No.

He's a gadfly.

[The Flaming Red Head]

98. Which party, Republican, Green, Democrat, Libertarian, or Hollywood ? nt