Democratic Base......The DLC`s indentured servants

[democrank]

Like little poodles on a leash, the base of the Democratic Party seems willing to obey the DLC`s commands...."Sit", "Beg", "Roll over" without so much as a feeble attempt to exercise the power we have. Even though the party can not win without our support, we timidly wait for our instructions while we mull over a move to the center in exchange for a pat on the head. We`re even willing to do penance in response to corporate media`s merger of the words liberal and wicked.
Yes indeedy. We`re going to highlight that little element called "Joementum" and build on that with our friends across the aisle. Give me a break.

Perhaps it was the DLC`s famous memo that sent so many of us running scared, the one that called anti-war folks "liberal elitists" like we were supposed to believe Jesus loves depleted uranium and torture. Now we`re once again allowing the message to dictate actions as we spend hour after hour debating the newest issue....red state vs. blue state, moral vs. immoral. It`s so twisted.

Here`s my plan: I`m going to continue with my boycott of corporate media. I couldn`t care less about the foolishness on Crossfire or Chris Matthews` warm and fuzzy exchange with some Pentagon spokesperson on Hardball. Next, I`m going to continue with every possible anti-war activity I can think of....protests, letters to editors, petitions, bumperstickers. Also, every single time the DNC asks me for money, my answer will be the same...NO. My dollars will go to groups who actually care, like MoveOn, ACLU, Free Speech TV, etc. I`m going to stay away from any business that I know supported George Bush. Every single time I hear a person speak in favor of the war in Iraq, I`m going to ask them if they`ve signed up to serve or if their kids have.

I have been a loyal Democrat for more than four decades and have watched this party increasingly turn away from its base and transform itself into mini-Republicans. Fewer and fewer Democratic leaders are willing to stand up and speak the truth and support causes our party has always fought for. For me, there will be no more lesser of two evils, no more voting for the person that has the best chance of winning. From now on, I will vote my conscience. Period. Any actions I take will reflect my deep concern for social and economic justice. I`ll leave the bogus Renaissance Weekend Retreats to the millionaire sellouts in Washington and follow Howard Dean`s approach....little by little, step by step, taking my power and using it for the common good.

[Guaranteed]

1. Hear, hear.

Vote your conscience.

There will be no more ABB. YOU EARN MY VOTE, DEMOCRATS.

P.S. This is for your OWN GOOD. And it hurts me a lot more than it hurts you. :P

[blondeatlast]

4. My sentiments exactly. I'm a 4th generation Dem, too.

They can no longer take ANY demographic for granted.

[ElectroPrincess]

68. Yes, I fear save for a few brave Democratic representatives ...

the only difference between voting for a DLC Democrat instead of a Republican is that you get your customary hug and a kiss on the cheek before you get both your income and civil liberties taken away.

These NEW DLCers are sick puppies ... even more right politically than the moderate republicans of the 80s.

It will hurt us (The Democratic Party) to vote our conscious in the short term, but we must do it for the sake of future generations. Unfortunately it will require *a huge* wake-up call for us to shake loose the parasitic corporate whores known as the present DLC leadership.

[kentuck]

2. A good example is the so-called "Social Security reform" of Bush...

Why can't a Democrat stand up and say? "What the hell are you talking about, you fucking fool! Have you gone crazy! ?"

[blondeatlast]

5. Well, actually, I'll give Reid props for doing pretty much

just that on MTP sunday.

He put the lie of the SS "crisis" out there for all to see but we won't be seeing too much of it anywhere else, I'm afraid.

We're up against a very efficient machine nowadays.

[kentuck]

6. But the problem with Reid and his type.....

is that they will one day stand up and defend the Social Security system and the next day stand up and support Antonin Scalia, who would tear down SS in an instant if given the opportunity. It is their inconsistency that is so troubling. They take one step forward and two steps back.

[Q]

3. Indeed...the Democratic party is going to go through many changes...

...in the next four years. No more Mr. Nice Voter who votes Democratic out of habit or some kind of misguided loyalty. Democrats must EARN their votes by supporting (traditional) Democratic causes and principles and must be on record as opposing the Bush* junta on issues such as the Iraq invasion and occupation.

[democrank]

18. It nearly makes me crazy

listening to our Democratic "leaders" and party spokespersons water down every sentence for fear they might appear to be soft on terrorists or soft on crime or soft on something. Our party bosses don`t need to look up the word "liberal" because apparently they`ve accepted Limbaugh`s definition. Such unity....all those flags and branding irons.

Are they nuts? I`m supposed to support them when they don`t even have the courage to fight for a living wage? When they make speeches about protecting the sanctity of marriage from invisible bands of homosexuals? When they pretend they`re standing for freedom and democracy as they support Bush lying us into a war? Can they say NATIONAL DEBT? Can they say GENEVA CONVENTION? Couldn`t they take time off from their busy vacations and try to find a little extra steel to reinforce the Humvees in Iraq? Do they even have a clue as to how many Americans are homeless? In prison?

It will be a cold day in Hell before I`ll ever go back on automatic pilot and support one of these spineless little Republican-Wannabes.
The Democratic leadership has helped turn America into a country I barely recognize. I`m surprised any of them can still belly up to their corporate bowls given the amount of ankle grabbing they`ve done.

[janx]

7. kick

for DFA!

[itzamirakul]

8. I see that you, as well as I....

are totally disgusted with the way the party has departed from its base. I have been exploring other arms of the Party to try to find something more in line with my way of thinking before I abandon the Democratic Party entirely and I have been a voting Dem for over 40 years.

I would respectfully like to suggest that you visit these sites to see if their visions and strategies are more in line with your own.

www.democratsforamerica.com (This is Howard Dean's site)

www.pdamerica.org (This site has the most extensive vision and strategy for bringing the party back to its grassroots base. A DU poster is one of the founders.)

[NYCGirl]

9. A correction. The link for Dean's group is incorrect. It is:

www.democracyforamerica.com

[itzamirakul]

10. Ooops! Thanks...

for the correction. :)

I'm in Hell's Kitchen. Are you in Manhattan?

[NYCGirl]

11. Yes, the Village. n/t

[janx]

12. Is there still a pet shop full of parrots there?

About ten years ago I went to the Village to visit the Mary Boone Gallery, and I walked by a little pet shop full of roaming parrots.

[NYCGirl]

13. I don't know of a store like that, Janx. What part of the Village?

Edited to add: I'm near Astor Place (which, BTW, is the geographical center of Greenwich Village).

[janx]

16. Sorry--it was ten or more years ago.

I think the place was about five blocks or so from the art gallery. It probably isn't there anymore.

[prairierose]

27. I am seriously looking at both...

of these organizations & plan to work with both of them. I am tired of the DNC becoming repub lite & do not believe in that type of appeasement. I don't exactly like the dem bashing but if it gets some of those people to wake up maybe we should for a while. At least until they begin to see that their historic base is unhappy with their ridiculous losing plans. :shrug:

[DaveinMD]

14. and the DLC boogeyman continues

John Kerry was not DLC. Bob Shrum was not DLC. They are from the Kennedy wing of the party. You know, the liberal wing. Kerry was more liberal than Howard Dean. Even Howard Dean said so during the primaries.

[greenohio]

19. Tis true.

DLC is hated here, mostly because they are very influential on the party. Kerry is DLC though, he is on the DLC member directory. I think he joined because they are so influential. He certainly isn't a Democrat in the Clinton mold.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

65. It's the tag team again!

:-)

[kentuck]

21. If Kerry had been true to himself....he would have been a liberal....

But, his campaign was DLC through and through - from his initial support for the "war" vote forward. Democrats followed him on those ideas because the majority were convinced he "needed" to "report for duty" in order to win...

[DaveinMD]

28. he didn't support the war

he supported giving the President all the tools of diplomacy and immediately spoke out against Bush's actions. Kerry was a liberal and ran as one. This was not a DLC campaign.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

67. A REAL liberal wouldn't have voted for the IWR in the first place

Tens of thousands of ordinary people knew that Bush was not to be trusted. Kerry was either deluded or approving of the war or scared into believing Bushevik propaganda.

[Cheswick2.0]

44. bull

look at the way Kerry voted in the last four years... toltal DLC suck up centrist.

PS... and he did vote for the war because everyone with a brain knew Bush was going to war.

[Walt Starr]

106. Sorry, the DLC is as much my enemy as..

the GOP.

[Edgewater_Joe]

15. I Ain't No House Democrat

I want the Democratic LOSERS Committee out of the building A.S.A.P.

They've had their chance, and they've proven that without Bill Clinton at the top, their strategies and philosophies are LOSING strategies and philosophies.

Now if they (or anyone else) doesn't like Dean, step up and provide an alternative vision. His is one of the few that's out there - and, IMHO, it just happens to be spot on and smart.

Put up or shut up - and don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.

[DaveinMD]

29. great idea

kick people out of the party. That's a sure winning strategy.

[democrank]

33. Oh, I get it.

We`re supposed to forget that Democrats used to stand for something and accept this plastic facade that passes for party leadership? Just turn our heads when we find out members of our party signed on to the Patriot Act without even bothering to read it? Turn the other cheek when African Americans are treated like swine at their polling places? Get a few million Freedom Fighter pins and offer our services for AWOL Bush`s war of choice? Watch silently as the people who have the least drop like flies? Let the polluters "self-regulate" and the drug companies write their own drug bills? Continue to prostitute for the DLC johns even though they send out memos to the national media demeaning anti-war activists? We`re supposed to be silent and just play nice?

When did it become unfashionable for Democrats to speak for the voiceless? To offer a hand up to the less fortunate? Are we in a big old change here that I didn`t know about? Did the rules change on me when I wasn`t looking? Gee...if that`s the case, I`ll surely have a hard time sending supportive messages to the very folks who transformed this party from a working folks network to a pathetic replica of a Clear Channel boardroom.

You want "leadership" with one arm around Tucker Carlson`s waist and the other waving a ticket to a friendship summit with Dennis Hastert? Not me. I want leadership that is willing to stand on principle even if it means they won`t be invited to participate in Joe Scarborough`s next town hall meeting, where Red is Right.

[DaveinMD]

34. We just ran a true progressive for President

Kerry would have greatly expanded health care, raised taxes on the wealthy to help those falling behind. Provided greater funded for education. He would have greatly increased the ability of everyone to get a college education. And yes he would have restored America's reputation in the world.

Democratic leadership in the Congress will pick its spots. But you know what. They are largely irrelevent. Republicans control everything. The true power in the party is with the governors and state legislatures. We need to look at folks who are winning elections and let those folks lead the way. And it you don't like the leadership in the party, run for office. Progressives need to run at all levels. This is a long term thing. Bitching about party leadership does no good.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. "True progressive"?

A cautious liberal, but hardly a progressive. He was too timid to propose real healthcare reform or to put the country's defense on a truly defensive basis instead of using it to "project American power."

[Cheswick2.0]

49. Kerry is nowhere near being a progressive anymore

[Edgewater_Joe]

43. You're Too Literal

I didn't mean kick them out of THE PARTY -- just the party LEADERSHIP.

Sheesh!

[Cheswick2.0]

46. stop making things up

no one has suggested we kick anyone out of the party. It is an organization we want to kick out of power. Democrats will adjust and if From really is the republican I think he is, he will go back to his right wing think tank and they will send someone else to sabotage us.

[greenohio]

17. Kick out those evil DLCer's. Ban em from the the party. Then we can win.

Fienstein, Dodd, Cantwell, Landrieu, and Rendell all need the boot. Bill Clinton should be banned from all Democratic functions including the national convention. Those DLCer's are dead weight holding us back. Sometimes that foot just needs to be shot.

[kentuck]

22. Ban their wimpy strategy...

They can stay if they want. If they feel more welcome in the Republican Party, good riddance!

[greenohio]

23. They are people in power. They are the "wimpy" strategy.

They are the ones giving in over and over. What, you think they change their name to the "We're no longer DLC Club" that they will behave differently?

[kentuck]

25. Yes..That's what we are saying....

So where do we disagree??

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. So are you a DLC intern or something?

:eyes:

[greenohio]

58. No. I just am sick of people demonizing fellow dems.

But apparently that is the standard around here.

[wyldwolf]

82. ..and the reason it is the standard is it is way to easy to demonize...

...disguises the fact that some of these folks haven't a clue about the way politics works, organizing, and actually doing something beyond puffing their chests and reveling in their self importance.

[ursacorwin]

26. i'm not sure about your standards

because mine are telling me that the line has been crossed. i guess i'm too far to the left to really get why you'd support the leadership's actions (and lack thereof) over the last four years, but i know i could've done a far better job being the opposition.

everyone you mention has done some really great things, sponsored important legislation, etc. but what has happened in this country in the last four years? stop and think about it for a moment, do you remember 1999? what it was like? and look at us now: an emerging fascist state that plans to regulate political internet speech starting next year, just to name one example.

what has the party leadership done for us? i really don't care what little group and beltway cocktail party set they hang out in, i want to know what they've done to stop the criminals in the white house. which as far as i can tell, has been little more than appease. and counsel people like me that we just need to keeping moving to the center. it's beyond insulting.

i'm sorry to have my opinion of so many otherwise worthy leaders drop so greatly over the last few years. and of course, i don't blame them for the war, or the rest of the evil coming out of the administration. but i do blame them for being stupid, navel-gazing, and insulting to their staunchest supporters. as a black woman, i can say with confidence that the party doesn't care about me except when they need me. and kerry doesn't even seem to care about that (re:OH voting). so please, tell me why i should care about the dlc or what it believes. they are proven three time losers. that's when people *should* get fired.

[greenohio]

38. So work to out those people. They subscribe to the values.

They need to go.

[blurp]

70. Regulate internet political speech?

and look at us now: an emerging fascist state that plans to regulate political internet speech starting next year, just to name one example.

When did they vote on this?

[ElectroPrincess]

71. If we have to take some major hits to wake up the Democratic

Leadership, so be it. Clinton(s) are IMHO moderate Republicans when in the spirit they were a force for good over a decade ago. However, I'm fed up with compromise. I used to rag on the Nader crowd without mercy to vote for Kerry. NOW I believe that they may have known the score all along. I will not ever again vote for a republican lite DINO promoted by the DLC. Now it's most important for our Democratic party to "be forced kicking and screaming" if necessary ... for them stand for the working and middle classes in America.

[greenohio]

20. Flame bait..anyone?

Or is bashing fellow Dems considered in good taste, only if it's DLC?

[Q]

30. The same...

...group always shows up to defend the DLC. Why is that? When SO MANY are against something...wouldn't it be better to try to understand why than simply bring the same kneejerk defense over and over again?

And for the other defenders: Kerry is NOT a liberal. Or he certainly isn't a progressive. He was taking the advice of the DLC...which is why he came off as having two positions on everything. He left liberals and progressives behind so he could get a shot at the White House.

The DLC has no problem 'bashing' fellow Dems and friends of the party like Moore. It's finally pissing off progressives that have had to watch them smear candidates that get in the way of their chosen ones.

[UpsideDownFlag]

31. well said. i don't even consider the DLC to be true dems after their

reactions to this election. instead of protesting bush, they protest michael moore? methinks not.

[Cheswick2.0]

50. yes why is it they always attack democrats and kiss right wing ass?

I don't get it.

[greenohio]

40. The same group attack the DLC.

Many are Deaniacs, mad about the primaries. They cling to this conspiracy theory that the DLC used a mind control ray on Iowa voters, causing Dean to lose. I learned this by asking questions and listening on this board. The rest are just following the pack, reading their blogs which are actually convincing them to hate Bill Clinton and John Kerry. Convincing them that they weren't liberal enough. As if Dean is this model liberal when in fact he agrees with them on most issues. The one difference, being the war.

[ElectroPrincess]

72. IMHO all of your counter arguments ...

could be taken off of the republican party's daily talking points ... orchestrated by KKKarl Rove and promoted by hate radio:

1) Deaniacs (implication that Dean's nuts);
2) Conspiracy Theories (when all God fearin' folks know * loves us);
3) Placing the label "liberal" in the worst possible context.

IMO the DLC Democrats are almost as shameful as republicans. If they have a media outlet, their propaganda will be just as putrid.

I'm proud to be a LIBERAL and believe that Michael Moore may not be pretty but he's significantly more patriotic (loves the Constitution) than the now "corporate DLC."

[Forkboy]

74. ....

greenohio (877 posts) Sat Dec-11-04 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #42
58. No. I just am sick of people demonizing fellow dems.

But apparently that is the standard around here.

[wyldwolf]

84. Are we using post counts to judge credibility?

..if so, Electroprincess only has 1200 or so ... But apparently that is the standard around here.

greenohio could close that gap in a week.

[Forkboy]

97. my post has zero to do with post counts

the point is way over your head it would seem.

[wyldwolf]

83. except they describe a minority group of "deaniacs" and far lefties...

..perfectly... IMHO

[Q]

96. And many are just plain Democrats...

It's disgusting the way the defenders of the DLC always bring out labels in an effort to discredit anyone who disagrees with their policies.

To many of us it's not a matter of liberal versus moderate. We're very concerned about how the DLC is ENABLING the Bushies to continue on their rampage against America and Democracy.

The DLC may not be robbing banks like the Bushies...but they're sure in hell driving the getaway car.

[wyldwolf]

109. who brings out labels????

Pot? Meet kettle!

[democratic wing]

24. Mind reader ;)

When Kerry said he would have voted to invade Iraq even knowing there was no WMD and no Saddam/al-Qaida connection,I knew he was the wrong candidate ("in the wrong place at the wrong time",one might say).

I might have voted for Nader if he hadn't sold out to the thugs too. Sorry,Ralph,you can't have it both ways.

"From now on, I will vote my conscience. Period. Any actions I take will reflect my deep concern for social and economic justice. I`ll leave the bogus Renaissance Weekend Retreats to the millionaire sellouts in Washington and follow Howard Dean`s approach....little by little, step by step, taking my power and using it for the common good."

[newyawker99]

32. Hi democratic wing!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[democratic wing]

64. Thanks!

:hi:

[ShaneGR]

35. It really does crack me up all the anti-DLC posts of late

Folks, the DLC died the day Clinton left office and Gore lost in 2000. They've had zero control over party politics since then, especially this year.

[JohnKleeb]

36. even more humorous if you keep in mind the fact

that our party leaders in the house and senate aren't even in the DLC nor were Gephardt and Daschle.

[greenohio]

39. No its not true. We lost because of the DLC. That blog said so.

The DLC is to blame for all of our ills. I've read how they are the cause of Reagan success, BBV, and racism. So in short, we need to kick out these guys, all 100 or so of them. Then we can be winners again.

[wyldwolf]

91. but they have to keep that demon alive...

...like the right's "evil empire" and, now, "axis of evil," the left needs something to hate to motivate them to moan and bitch on message boards.

[JohnKleeb]

37. You guys give the DLC way too much credit

Are you aware that most of our senators and representives aren't even members and that our leadership in the house and senate isn't DLC.

[wyldwolf]

48. good point, John, but like the rightwing's "communism" and "muslims"

...the left has to have an enemy to hate.

[Forkboy]

51. I thought that was Nader

I'm so confused these days.

[wyldwolf]

53. nah, Nader was the left's darling ... and remained as such for some...

...even during the election.

[Forkboy]

54. he was?

huh...all those Nader threads full of hate had me fooled there for a minute :shrug:

[wyldwolf]

55. I guess you were fooled

every hate-filled Nader thread brought with it those defending him (after all, if everyone here had agreed about Nader there would not have been the long threads)

[Forkboy]

59. all five of them?

the horror!

[wyldwolf]

62. much more than that

[Forkboy]

69. uh huh

[wyldwolf]

80. yep!

[Forkboy]

98. Well,you convinced me!

[wyldwolf]

105. good

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JohnKleeb]

60. I dont think a member of the DLC has ever even led us in the houses

of congress. Dick Gephardt, many of you guys may not like him because he attacked Dean or voted for the war resolution and rose garden but the trtuh is Gephardt is a quite progressive democrat on economic issues and while a member in his early years in congress, Gephardt since '88 has moved to the left. Nancy Pelosi, is in fact a member of the progressive caucus that Kucinich and Barbara Lee Chair and one of the highest up nat'l democrats against the war resolution. Now to the senate, Daschle and Reid while they aren't members of hte party's liberal wing, they aren't extremely moderate either, and as far as I know, they've never been members. Yeah, we had a DLC president from '93-'00, but the DLC's power is so overhyped by some of us.

[Julien Sorel]

56. They are stealth DLC.

They don't join officially, in order to make it seem like the DLC isn't really in control. But like the out of the closet DLCers, they call Al From's secret (1-800 DIE DEMS) number for marching orders, and vote according to however he tells them. You have to pay close attention to these guys. They're crafty, very crafty.

[w4rma]

45. Fight them in the primary, leave the animosity behind in the general.

If you don't you're asking for trouble when *your* non-DLC candidate is smeared as a DLC one by the media twisting the facts in an effort to divide and conquor.

[Doomsayer13]

47. Typical knee-jerk anti-DLC approach

it's almost down to a formula. Anti-DLC posts require the folliwng things

- A mentioning and a trashing of Joe Liberman, even though he was embarrassed in the primaries
- The words "Republican-lite" and "sell-out" are required
- The poster re-iterates that he/she has been a loyal Democrat all his/her life
- The poster denounces the Democratic party as is and proclaims that they are "voting their concience" be it green or otherwise
- Broad non-solutions that offer abstract demands like "become progressive again" without offering specific policy and electoral strategies.

Why do I get the feeling that we'll be reading a lot more of this for the next two years?

[greenohio]

52. Nicely put.

[JohnKleeb]

61. Hell even with the Zellout gone, Lieberman isn't even the most

conservative dem in the senate, not really even close. The days they talk about the dems being ultra progressive were also days when the Dems had a wider range of a tent, from southern conservatives to the far left. I don't like the DLC third way approach but I think the problem is From really and not the rank and file of the DLC which has some people I admire in it.

[Doomsayer13]

63. From is useless, obviously

but the DLC and the NDN network has some good people who have good ideas. Simon Rosenberg is a particularly impressive centrist, who is looking to work with all wings of the Democratic party.

A common misconception is that the Dem party is more conservative now than they were 30 years ago, when we still had old line racist southern conservatives like Jim Eastland in the party. If anything, both parties are more partisan than they were, and our ideological line is hardening. Conservative Democrats are a dying breed - you used to be able to name them by the dozen, now you're hardpressed to name over 3.

Yet this still doesn't stop the almost rediculous Anti-DLC power conspiracy rhetoric that's plauging DU. I guess it's easier than thinking and actually coming up with solutions. Its on the same level as From's obsessive Dean bashing - as if Howard Dean was the end all be all of the Democratic party. The answer is no, but the same thing applies to the DLC.

[FightinNewDem]

78. "Facts are stupid things"

...seems to be the prevailing attitude among some of the DLC-bashers around here.

Look, I have to tell you something. The DLC is, if anything, more inclusive than most groups within the Democratic Party. The DLC's annual conference is open to any Dem elected official, regardless of whether or not they are an ideologically pure New Democrat. I have attended several National Conversations, and with the exception of Dennis Kucinich/Bernie Sanders types, you can find a wide array of Democrats in attendance.

I also find myself baffled by this idiotic notion that DLC Democrats simply parrot the GOP line and refuse to criticize Republican policies. This is simply not true:

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251191&kaid=131&subid=207

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=252796&kaid=127&subid=171

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=252897&kaid=131&subid=192

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=252901&kaid=131&subid=192

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=252985&kaid=131&subid=192

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=252934&kaid=115&subid=900025

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251202&kaid=131&subid=192

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=252115&kaid=107&subid=123

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=252251&kaid=131&subid=192

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=252422&kaid=131&subid=192

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=252886&kaid=131&subid=192

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=250113&kaid=131&subid=192

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=250167&kaid=131&subid=192

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=250193&kaid=131&subid=192

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=250267&kaid=115&subid=145

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=250422&kaid=131&subid=192

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=250509&kaid=131&subid=192

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=250963&kaid=85&subid=65

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfmcontentid=250979&kaid=450007&subid=900063

[wyldwolf]

85. well said

[Q]

87. While it's true that the DLC 'welcomes all' to their meetings...

...their stated goal is to run candidates that strictly adhere to their corporate-friendly platform. In other words...they'll never approve of a liberal or a progressive running for national office. What's inclusive about this type of thinking? If they were as open as you suggest...wouldn't ANY Democrat qualify?

The other goal of the DLC...which they're not shy about sharing...it that they agree with the Right when it comes to issues like the New Deal, Social Contract and public education. They want to see all of these ended or replaced with a corporate version where profit is more important that serving the people.

[ElectroPrincess]

75. And you know what, it's going to work. :-)

You'll have to learn the hard way that many of us life long Democrats can no longer recognize our party. I'm voting Green until you get your act together (Democratic Party Leadership).

[wyldwolf]

86. don't let the door hit your ass on the way out

[Q]

95. I must admit...YOU are the true face of the DLC...

...and I'm sure they're very proud of the fact that you're here trashing those who object to their policies and have concerns about the direction of the party.

Democrats are obviously frustrated by the DLC and their enabling of the Bush* WH. Some are so concerned that they're thinking of leaving the party. But instead of offering to discuss these concerns with other Democrats...the DLCers simply call them 'looney' for disagreeing.

Similar to your tactics here on DU...the DLC has nothing but scorn for those who want to have a voice in their party. Like the Bushies...the DLC has adopted the 'my way or the highway' tactic of smearing anyone that won't follow them into oblivion.

[Forkboy]

99. "YOU are the true face of the DLC..."

Yep

[angrydemocrat]

101. LMAO

Poor Poor Q It's All the DLC's Fault:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Q]

113. Who the hell are YOU?

Another Defender of the Oppressed DLC? You 'guys' are sounding more and more like RWingers every day...with your taunts that sound too much like their smugness.

Another poster who embodies the attitude of the DLC: we've taken the party away from the progressives and there's nothing you can do about it. And then you have the audacity to call it 'crying' when informed Democrats try to warn you that they will no longer put up with the BS from the corporate wing of the party. Do I need to remind you that the DLC forced its way on the Democratic party and are trying to set the agenda against the will of the majority? They have no mandate or consensus to blend the party with the Republicans.

As Walt and others have put it on this thread...the DLCers are going to be very shocked in 2006 and 2008 if they are expecting the progressive base to vote for their candidate. It's not going to happen.

Be as smug as you want...but we're not going to sit back and watch as the Democratic party is taken over by the NeoDems as the GOP was taken over by the RR and Neocons over the last decade. If the DLCers refuse to share power and allow progressives an equal playing field to run for national office...we simply won't participate in the charade.

[angrydemocrat]

116. No I'm Not A RWinger

I am a proud Democrat and have been all my life. And I don't need you to warn me about anything. I'm not the one sitting around pissing and moaning playing the blame game like a spoilt brat. I'm not the one trying to eat my own. Our party isn't being took over by NeoDems as you call them. As far as being shocked in 2006 and 2008 that is yet to be seen. Our party is made up of many good Democratic leaders. There are those that you agree with alot more than others. But the one fact in life is when it comes to politics and religion not everyone has the same beliefs. Some Democrats are liberal, some moderate, some Democrats are catholics, some may be baptist, not all Democrats share the exact same beliefs but the point is we are still all Democrats. To sit and criticize and make nasty remarks other Democrats because the don't think exactly the way you think or feel the way you do or because they may be more liberal than you or more moderate than you is childish and wrong. We are all Democrats and nobody is beyond making mistakes. So yes many take offense to your nasty remarks and being called NeoDems. And we refuse to sit around and not fight back. You can disagree with someone and express how you dislike a candidate or an organization without being offensive. Because you need to also remember while you don't agree with them 100% neither do they agree with you 100%. That is all part of politics.

[wyldwolf]

110. because I told a GOP enabling left voter to watch her ass on the way out?

guilty as charged!

[rasputin1952]

57. Just an observation here...but it seems to me that people ought to get

out a little more often. I think this is the 15th thread about the DLC in two days. Really, it is nice to moan and groan, hoot and holler and all of that good stuff, but realistically, as much as I'd like to see it, you won't change things by fighting amongst yourselves. Change has never come about that way, and I don't think change ever will.

I go all over DU, I enjoy the whole site. There's alot out there that is being missed, while the same old tired towels are being snapped into shreds over this.

Speaking strictly as a member of DU, nothing more; nor with any great wisdom from the Cosmos, I learned long ago, that the best of friends and the best of acquaintances, eventually feel the strain from the same old arguments hashed over a hundred times. With respect for all of you, and knowing this is an important issue, I still don't think it is the only issue.


Just figured I'd open the door and peek in...:)

[PassingFair]

66. Like, Yeah!

Maybe these DLC guys can have their own circlejerk forum! Tally-ho!

[ElectroPrincess]

76. Thoughtful points ...

The only place that I care to differ is that change will come regardless. The Democratic Leadership is drifting away from it's base, if they won't listen, they'll learn the hard way in 2006.

[wyldwolf]

88. but as a mod, perhaps you can clear this up a bit...

The DU rules state:

Do not publicly accuse another member of this message board of being a disruptor, troll, conservative, Republican, or FReeper. Do not try to come up with cute ways of skirting around the spirit of this rule.

Now, seems to me that when the DLC is called "fascist," "traitors," and "republicans," and DLC supporters are accused of parroting GOP talking points, that at least violates the spirit of this rule, does it not?

[ElectroPrincess]

89. I'm beyond surprised ... when all else fails (your arguments) ...

demand an authoritarian solution? Wow, now that IMHO is shameless personified.

If the DLC does not believe in traditional Democratic principle and shuns it liberal base, who's Dis'ing who?

[wyldwolf]

90. arguments?

ElectroPrincess, in this thread you've provided nothing but strawmen and empty, veiled threats.

There have been no arguments from me or between us.

And now you cling to a misguided and undefined term "base."

And besides, rules are here to be followed. Nothing authoritarian about it.

I could easily say your response to my request for rules clarification was nothing short of anarchist.

[ElectroPrincess]

92. IMHO the DLC democrats are DINO ...

What can you say about people who DIS Michael Moore and it's liberal base.

Your entire existence is to move to the party to the right and you think that just because you CALL yourself a Democrat that you should be able to SCREAM Rules are Rules!

"Big Brother! The liberals are picking on me again, remember I'm a Democrat and you can't let THEM do that!?!

Yes, in the spirit of the republicans taking on the "nuclear option" or a police force tasing, handcuffing and/or arresting children for something as inane as bringing scissors to school... yes, DEMAND that the *authorities* do your bidding.

No, you are NOT IMHO a Democrat with respect to the principles you hold dear. Finally the fact that you beg for authoritarian intervention and not free speech is very telling. :(

[wyldwolf]

93. INMHO, the far lefty loon nuts are DINO...

What can you say about people who threaten to vote green and actually do at the expense of our country?

Your entire existence is to move to the party to the far left and you think that just because you CALL yourself a Democrat that you should be able to whine, and set up strawmen, and advocate anarchy?

Nut job! The DLC is picking on me again, remember I'm a Democrat (or a green? what the hell am I today?) and you can't let THEM do that!?!

Yes, in the spirit of the republicans taking on the "nuclear option" or a police force tasing, handcuffing and/or arresting children for something as inane as bringing scissors to school... yes, DEMAND that the *authorities* do your bidding.

Amazing leap of logic there... typical of extreme reactionaries

No, you are NOT IMHO a Democrat with respect to the principles you hold dear. Finally the fact that you advocate anarchy is very telling. :(

[ElectroPrincess]

94. Now who's doing the "name calling" ... I just stated that

your MO is to move the party to the right. The best argument you can now throw out at liberal democrats is that we're nuts.

Honestly, and not mean spirited, you could be a good force in the republican party. There are a number of acquaintances who are what I consider "moderate republicans" who I hold great respect for ... however, I'm saddened and honestly believe that DLC Democrats do not hold the same values that our base holds dear.

Go ahead and bully your way into, even perhaps speaking in the name of the Democratic Party. What you fail to realize is there are MANY liberal Democrats and the party may have to go down the tubes in 2006 for the Authoritarian Democrats to switch to the republican party.

On Edit: Yeah I'm a real anarchist having earned a regular army commission out of ROTC and serving my country honorably as a Military Intelligence Officer on active duty for four years. Plus the fact that I've volunteered numerous hours and gave $ donations to the Democratic Party ... Oh! And I pay my taxes on time and volunteer at my daughter's school - yeah, I'm a real troublemaker :P, out of the mainstream anarchist ... NOT!

[Forkboy]

100. Which one of you two has a post in ATA right now wanting threads put..

to a stop?

Which one of you two begged the Admins to ban members who didn't tow the line during the primaries?

Which one of you two now,hilariously,asks "Who is being purged?".

Which one of you two has shown a predilection to want to do such purging?

Hint-It's not you Electro Princess :)

[wyldwolf]

107. that would be me... partially, anyway

Which one of you two has a post in ATA right now wanting threads put to a stop?

You are misrepresenting my post, which plainly asks the admins to give divisive posts a rest to promote unity unless they condone all out flame wars. See, a choice was given.

Which one of you two begged the Admins to ban members who didn't tow the line during the primaries?

I, among many, asked the admins to enforce they're own rules once the nominee was chosen. Any links on where I "begged the Admins to ban members who didn't tow the line during the primaries?"

Which one of you two now,hilariously,asks "Who is being purged?"

Who has shown any proof that any group is being purged?

Which one of you two has shown a predilection to want to do such purging?

Care to give proof on THAT charge?

[wyldwolf]

104. payback, my dear

your MO is to move the party to the far left. The best argument you can now throw out at moderate DLC democrats is that we're republicans.

Go ahead and bully your way into, even perhaps speaking in the name of the Democratic Party.

Been in the party for 20 years, dear. I mean REALLY in the party. Committee member, Post seat holder, campaign worker...

What you fail to realize is there are MANY liberal Democrats and the party may have to go down the tubes in 2006 for the Authoritarian Democrats to switch to the republican party.

In your dreams...

Yeah I'm a real authoratarian having been voted in on several offices in my local democratic party. Plus the fact that I've volunteered numerous hours and gave $ donations to the Democratic Party ... Oh! And I pay my taxes on time and volunteer at my wife's school - yeah, I'm a real troublemaker :P, out of the mainstream authoritarian ... NOT!

[Selatius]

112. Her MO seems to be to keep the party from moving any further right

I'm no fan of the DLC either. If anything, I think she is repudiating those who would take corporate cash and pay them back favors. I don't think any Democratic organization should be soliciting corporate contributions. It creates a conflict of interest whenever corporate interests collide with worker interests. I don't think the size of one wallet should have as big a pull as one's vote. I don't think money should be an issue in the election system, period. This is why I support a fully taxpayer subsidized election system.

[wyldwolf]

114. No, her MO is to whine, moan, demonize, insult, attack...

...if it were to keep the party from moving any further right, she'd be out running for office, etc., to work towards that goal.

[angrydemocrat]

102. Whaaa Whaaa

Poor Poor ElectroPrincess is't all the DLC's fault:cry: :cry: :cry:

[ElectroPrincess]

103. Time will tell ... all I'm saying is that I won't vote for a DLC democrat

and as a consequence I get called an "anarchist." I view many of you DLC (not all) folks here as *bullies* and the name calling and character assaults are unappreciated.

Guess you will have to find out the hard way in 2006 mid-term elections that "people like me" are part of the mainstream.

Peace be with you.

[Walt Starr]

115. I'm damn close to being as anti-Democrat

as I am anti-Republican.

[loritooker]

77. I wrote to Nancy Pelosi to not take me for granted

when she started making concilliatory noises about how the Democrats have to reach out to the more conservative people and the religious people. Their strategy is sounding more and more like they are just going to be "Republican II". I told her that if that was the case, the party should not count on me.

[KnowerOfLogic]

79. Say it , Brother /Sister. nt

[catbert836]

108. Good for you!

We should all have decided the same thing by now.

[Walt Starr]

111. Well I've read every last post in this thread and can say with confidence

the DLC wants the left to either shut up or just go away.

I'll go away and take my donations and activism with me, and I'll bing ten more with me.

And they'll bring ten more, and they'll bring ten more, and so on and so on and so on.

Pretty soon, you'll have only DLC chiefs and nobody else, and we'll be in the party taking on the Republican bastards while you sit around and wonder how you got Whigged.