Which of these two House members do you prefer?

[genius]

Cynthia McKinney, who has a tendency to tell the truth too much.

Nancy Pelosi, who voted for the framework for a national ID card, for simple membership in organizations (to be designated by the AG) a crime, for drug companies to be exempted from liability for giving mercury poisoning to children and for a resolution linking Iraq to 9/11.

[fob]

1. Can we get a "bad" snippet on McKinney and a "good" snippet on

Pelosi to make a more informed choice?

[genius]

2. It's hard to find a counter-example. Pelosi is denying McKinney seniority

Clearly, Pelosi is actively changing the policy to keep McKinney in line with Pelosi's Republican ideology.

[TwilightZone]

3. Republican ideology? Are you serious?

Do you know anything about Nancy Pelosi? Apparently not.

She's one of the most liberal members of Congress. She is most certainly not a Republican and her views on the vast, vast majority of issues do not represent a "Republican ideology".

Quite the contrary.

http://www.issues2000.org/CA/Nancy_Pelosi.htm

Let's try to be a little informed, please.

[genius]

4. This must be some new definition of liberal with with I was previously

unacquainted. Or maybe you are referring to Bush's logic when he said that John Kerry was the most liberal member of Congress. Her support for pharmaceutical companies over children in the HS bill, for supporting Bush with res 757 claiming there was a link between Iraq and 9/11, her support for the provisions of Patriot II included in the Intelligence Reform Act and her reprimand of Jim McDermott for his failure to tow the line and say "under God" in the pledge are signs of a liberal. Next you'll be saying Bush is a liberal.

[ooglymoogly]

6. nahhhh don't buy it

not on your bean cakes, palosi's ok in my books

[genius]

7. So you agree with her pro-Bush positions on these issues?

[Lone Pawn]

9. You know, it is possible to disagree with her on one or two issues

and at the same time realize she's one of the most liberal members of the House.

[ooglymoogly]

23. bushco is the anti christ and

i haven't seen polosi on issues that are in agreement with the things i despise about bush. but i don't see all.

[Freddie Stubbs]

26. Do you agree with Dennis Kucinich's pro-Bush positions on issues?

:shrug:

[genius]

29. HIs voting record is significantly better (more anti-Bush) than Pelosi's

You can compare it vote by vote and he comes out the winner easily. He did not vote for Homeland Security or the garbage Pelosi voted for on Tuesday. He did not vote for Resolution 757 linking Iraq to 9/11 and providing Bush with confirmation that he did the right thing in slaughtering all those people.

Pelosi clearly doesn't understand the need for the Bill of Rights and this is a big problem with her leadership.

[Freddie Stubbs]

31. Pelosi didn't vote to outlaw partial-birth abortion

Kucinich did.

[ElectroPrincess]

34. Hey hey hey! It's properly termed "late term abortion"

and it's only used to save the life of the MOTHER. Damn! Don't let the freaks of the rabid right wing noise machine pervert our terminology? Please don't fall into that dangerous trap?

[Freddie Stubbs]

38. Fine. Kucinich, not Pelosi voted to outlaw "late term abortion"

[arcos]

36. And he voted for the flag burning amendment, Pelosi didn't...

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/Speech/flagburning/news.aspx?id=11558

[Lone Pawn]

8. Um, genius?

Pelosi's rated 100% by NARAL, 100% by SANE (pro-peace), and 87% by the ACLU, 90% by the LCV, 88% by CURE (rehabilitation over punishment in prisons) and only 34% by the US COC (pro-business), and an F by the NRA. She voted to legalize medical marijuana, against legalizing school prayer, is anti-death-penalty, voted against the war, voted against all of Bushco's tax cuts, and you still think she's a conservative? Are you insane?

She voted "for" all of those things you said the same way Zell Miller said John Kerry voted "against" every single piece of military hardware we use--blown out of proportion as part of a compromise package.

[genius]

10. The ACLU warned her against the Intell Bill & she voted for it on Tues.

It also warned her about the Homeland Security bill and she voted for that too. For a leader, her record is very disappointing. People who don't think you should be required to say "under God" are also not too pleased with her insistance on those words being included in the Pledge. Her support for a resolution praising the Iraq war and claiming there was a link between Iraq and 9/11 (voted on right before the general election) doesn't make her appear particularly anti- war and neither does her statement today about the troops doing good will over in Iraq.

[Lone Pawn]

11. For one bill. She still has an 87% ACLU rating.

Disagree with her, but don't demonize her.

[genius]

13. How do you feel about her new-found support for the war in Iraq?

As evidenced by today's statement and resolution 757?

[Lone Pawn]

18. I don't have a problem with praising the soldiers.

They didn't choose Bush's war.

But I do agree with you and disagree wth her on her recent string of votes. I'd like to hear some justification from her for them, certainly. I just don't think she's worthy of anger quite yet. She has had a very good record until now, and I don't think it's likely she suddenly became a Republican--or even a moderate Dem.

[genius]

16. I bet they're in the process of lowering it given her recent votes.

[imenja]

32. delete

delete

[debsianben]

42. These Ratings Mean Nothing

These liberal advocacy groups are so spinelessly in thrall to the Democratic Party that they just refrain from asking question that mainstream Dem politicians will do badly on. That's how people could vote for NAFTA and still get OK ratings from the AFL-CIO, etc.

If Colin Powell and John Ashctoft became Democrats tomorrow, all these groups would probably find ways to give them "87% ratings" or some such.

Bottom line, think for yourself. What issues matter most to you? Where do these guys stand on them? Once you actually start doing that, you'll realize that you can't vote for the war, vote for the Patriot Act, support the whole Orwellian "war on terror" framework, support corporate "free trade", and be "very liberal."

Those are the kinds of standards that make despicable war criminals like Colin Powell out to be "moderates."

[TwilightZone]

40. What you are unacquainted with is her voting record.

http://www.issues2000.org/CA/Nancy_Pelosi.htm

Review her entire record. If you still think she's a Republican, you probably think Jesse Helms was a Democrat.

[donheld]

44. I'm not only buying it

i did so long ago. Nancy, i'm sure is a nice lady, but she's way to easy on the bushies and big business.

[IndianaGreen]

47. Pelosi likes Ariel Sharon

I guess that's a "good snippet" on Pelosi depending on your point of view.

:eyes:

[genius]

5. It was pointed out to me today that Pelosi's actions may be racially-

motivated in regards to her failure to give McKinney back her seniority, contrary to established standard procedure.

[Leilani]

12. Cheap shot!

[genius]

14. So was her refusal to give McKinney back her seniority.

[cali]

20. Oh, I see.

Because you don't think it's fair that Pelosi is denying McKinney senority, it's OK for you to accuse her of being a racist. Yea, that makes a lot of sense.

[Thomas Jefferson]

22. She should be held to the same standards as employers and landlords

An employer or landlord would be considered racist if they engaged int he same conduct as Ms. Pelosi.

[mr715]

15. Hey

Who do you perfer?

Dennis Kucinich - who abuses little children and rapes goats

or

George W. Bush - who protects French nuns



Dude, you need to really stop posting polls.

[DistressedAmerican]

17. I'm for the nun raping goat!

Any news on whether he's running next time around. Any trial balloons being floated on his pro-rape anti-nun platform?

Maybe I misunderstood the question...

[cali]

19. LOL. Exactly.

Yep. We need more false dichotomies around here. And let's not slack on demonizing folks either, goddamnit.

[Thomas Jefferson]

21. If Pelosi were a Republican, there would be a presumption of racism

Trent Lott stepped down over a comment praising a friend that contained no words of racism. Yet, Pelosi who changes procedure to deny an African-American woman her seniority is supposedly okay because she's a Democrat. Our leaders should be held to a higher standard than the Republicans - not a lower standard.

[cali]

24. Lott stepped down

for saying that the country would have been better off had Strom Thurmond been elected President in 1948. Thurmond was running on a no holds barred racist platform. I don't see this as the same thing. If it's true that Pelosi is breaking with procedure to deny McKinney seniority, that's wrong, but to attribute it to racism is also wrong. Harry Reid's being accused of racism for criticising Clarence Thomas . He said that Thomas was an embarrasment to the court. Is it racist to say that? I think not. Has there ever been any indication that Pelosi has a history of being a racist, or racially insensitive? If so, I''d like to see it, if not people shouldn't casually throw around accusations of racism.

[genius]

27. That's true. Lott did not specify why he liked Thurmund

Most people assumed it was a racist comment and it probably was. However, he could have liked Thurmond's position on other issues or just thought he was a Southern gentleman. I think that Pelosi's changing of procedure is more an attack on the liberals than it is an act of racism. But, you're right. She should be held to the same standard as Trent Lott and step down.

[ElectroPrincess]

35. Hey Genius! (gosh, I love typing that in a silly way)

Let's not get into that race baiting type tactics. We've got enough on our plates to stand up to the RW republicans using it against us, i.e., putting right ... like "foaming at the mouth" wing minorities' and women in * Administration's key high positions slots.

KKKarl Rove doesn't call them "The Untouchables" for nothing. :(

[JNelson6563]

25. No contest

I'll take Ms. McKinney hands down. She rocks. Spine of steel.

:toast:

Julie

[MrBenchley]

28. Say, genius, you never answered my question yesterday

If the bill that you were pillorying Pelosi and the Democrats was voting for was so awful, why did only the scummiest Republicans vote against it.

If there was a vote to hand out armbands with a W on them and start concentration camps, Tancredo, Barrett and Goode would vote for it...and they opposed the bill Pelosi voted for.

[genius]

30. You ought to read Robert Byrd's comment

It reads like an indictment of the Congressional leadership of both parties in both houses on the issue of that bill.

[MrBenchley]

37. So let's see it...

You dodged the question in the other thread of why the text you were claiming was in this bill didn't appear in the bill....

[ElectroPrincess]

33. Pelosi is "true blue" democrat in the classic sense

but I LOVE McKinney's style and courage. We should treasure them both. :-)

[GreenPartyVoter]

39. McKinney and Kooch and Sanders.. Love them all :)

------------------------------------------------------
Join the NEW Boston Tea Party!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/index.htm#shopping

[Freddie Stubbs]

41. Wanna guess how Sanders voted on the Intellignece bill?

;)

[donheld]

43. Cynthia by a mile

no question about it.

[jsw_81]

45. Pelosi

McKinney is a nut. Period.

[Catherine Vincent]

48. I don't think she's a nut. She speaks her mind.

[Cookie wookie]

46. Everybody complains about politicians being

too guarded, to equivocal, speaking too ambiguously, the dems being too easy and weak on * .. .

Well, McKinney is none of those. If that makes her seem extreme, or like a loose cannon, maybe that's because everyone else is so busy pretending everything is okay (conceding and "moving on" etc) when it's not while McKinney is shouting "It's Not" from the rooftops.

People always know where they are with her and don't have to read a script of what she's said under a black light, looking for the hidden code to know where she really stands. Maybe that's the way the leadership thinks Democrats are supposed to do it, just try to cover all bases at the same time and get along so well with everyone that they stand for nothing, but I'll take McKinney's style over theirs anyday. I don't always agree with her. Sometimes I may be shocked or offended even. But overall, she's working for the people, the little people like me, and she is as brave as David was with Goliath.