Get over it!

[hyphenate]

Well, it's been over a month since the election, and most of us are still morose, bitter and filled with both frustration and the inability to accept the results of that election.

Here's the poop:

We lost. No, we didn't lose the election--THAT we won. I really don't give a fuck what results are being officially recorded, because we all know it's bunk. No, the loss we suffered is worse than that--we didn't cheat as well as the right wingnuts. THAT's the part we lost.

We were fooled for the few months prior to the election. We innocently thought that we would win, because we were thinking naively--we were thinking, "no, they won't cheat: we know too much now for them to be able to win this by snatching it from our hands." Well, face it, and get over it: they cheated, they "won" and they've screwed us all again.

Let's face it, folks--we're still gullible. We're still innocents in a dirty world. We think too well of people, we think that in their core, most people are good. Well, it's not true. What IS true is that pukes are dirty, filthy liars, corrupt to their core, with the motto stamped on their butts "cheat until you're dead."

I'm tired about surveys, I'm tired of polls, I'm tired about the "if......" posts, and I'm tired trying to imagine that somehow, somewhere along the line we're going to reclaim our victory. It's not going to happen--they're laughing at us, rubbing their hands in glee, just as if Snidely Whiplash himself were at the center of this election. We couldn't win, even if every state had gone for Kerry. There would have been someone to take those results and twist them in some fashion to show that Bush won. They're in control of all branches of the government now, and we're still dreaming our lives away.

I don't give a fuck either about people saying that we need to "move on" and wait another four years to try again to win back our country. It's going to be the SAME FUCKED UP results in 4 years, because we can't reclaim what we don't have. If we're going to find our path again, find a way to make certain that future generations do not have to pay for the mistakes our government is making now, we have GOT to do it in ways that make a foreign war look like a cakewalk.

We've got to do what those in the former Soviet Union did in order to have some element of dissent available to them. We've got to do many things that go against our very natures, because we are going to have to fight in ways that would make a puke blush. DU is a start, obviously, but it's got to go way beyond DU. It's got to be everything from leaflets, pamphlets and newsletters laced with the bare, grim truths. It's going to mean finding ways to infiltrate not-so-liberal newspapers and other media sources, and begin to make our cause known. It's going to mean buying our way to the top, if possible, and if need be. We're a lot poorer in general than the average puke, but there are ways: for those who have no money to donate to the cause, such as using artistic abilities to design flyers, pamphlets, etc.; being the main force for spreading the word; and most importantly--never letting up--NOT EVEN FOR A MINUTE!!--in our dissent against the unfair government we have. We are going to have to take the Iron Curtain of Rovian propaganda and turn it against them. We're going to have to make this a guerilla war that will shake our government to the rafters.

We're going to have to research. We're going to have to get down and dirty, and we're going to have to have the truth on our side. Find people who had ties to any member of the administration, even the minor ones, who have been forced on us through their own lies and deceit. We're going to have to create our own media resources since we can't rely on those already around. We're going to have to find any and all who are able to help so that a greater, widespread system of communication is in place to handle our revelations.

We're going to have to take the radical right wingnuts and blow their credibility to smithereens. We're going to have to show the people in this country the truth about these people, and we're going to have to keep their attention for the next four years.

We might find other ways to help: the 2006 election might bring us more seats in the house and in the senate. We should find local candidates and support them in any way and every way possible. We are going to have to be the ones who establish our own revolutionary war in ways that would make our founding fathers proud.

Yes, we DO need to get over it--they've won, but not fairly, not honorably and hardly legally. But now that we have witnessed their tactics, witnessed the levels they have stooped to in regaining their positions, we need to be the driving force to make sure that the secrets they are hiding and the lies and crimes they have perpetrated will not go unnoticed ever again.

Do I hear any "ayes" from those of you? Or, like the rustle of falling leaves in the wind, do I instead hear silence? If no one else wants to wage a war against this enemy, how can we expect to have any way to change our country? We're not going to win by sitting, bitching and moaning. We can only win if we fight them at their own game, and show that seedy side to the people here in our own country who have been ignorant of the truth for far too long.

And we have to realize that fighting the war online is only one of the ways we can fight. Many people are still far too poor or undereducated to own and operate their own computers. Perhaps in the days to come, we can find ways to restore an older computer, or begin to take pieces to assemble a whole, and find some poor person who needs one to get started. It doesn't have to have the latest technology, it just needs to be able to get online, and open up a new world to the people who understand it the least. We're going to have to bombard newspapers with articles, letters, columns and anything else we can to ensure that a liberal point of view is shown. We're going to have to re-compile media listings and brand each and every newspaper as to its political bias, and use that information to make sure appropriate messages are targeted to them. Those who are on college campuses are going to need to make sure that students are aware of the many avenues to help and volunteer. We're going to have to do things even as silly as bake sales in order to get the word out.

We're going to need to have hides that are a lot thicker than they are now. We will be taunted, we will be ignored, we will be insulted and we will be harassed. But in the end, none of it will matter, because we know what's at stake. And if we can teach even one person at a time, we've got those four years to take the ignorance in which many people wallow and turn their votes into informed choices. Even if they vote for the "enemy" we've managed to fight the war on the overwhelming ignorance that pervades our citizenry as it is right now.

[deminflorida]

1. Let me guess.....Translation.....

STOP CRYING IN OUR TEACUPS

RIGHT????


:cry:

[Catch22Dem]

3. Is that an educated guess?

Translation: Did you read the entire post?

[deminflorida]

6. My point is had we have chosen a candidate who would have

stood his ground and fought for us, many of us would have stood with him.

How the hell can you expect an Army to charge when the general surrenders at the first sight of the enemy.

They knew our general was too cautious in battle.... That's why they were bold in their theft of the election.

Think back to the Civil War and you'll someday realize that history will record that John Kerry and George McClellan were the best generals that didn’t like to fight that this country has ever produced.

:eyes:

[LittleClarkie]

8. That excuse doesn't hold water for me

"We would have fought if Kerry stood up first. We need a leader."

Why?

If we are outraged, why do we need a leader to tell us to get up and fight?

The troops are just as cautious as the General.

[deminflorida]

9. Please show me anywhere in military history where an Army won

a conflict without a General who was willing to fight.

[LittleClarkie]

10. Newsflash

You ain't in the Army.

I'm not in a uniform. Are you in a uniform? Armies are trained not to think for themselves, and not question orders. Does that describe you?

The anology will only carry so far.

I'm not out there either. But I'm also not blaming that fact on Kerry.

Are you a sheeple, or are you a Killer "D".

[deminflorida]

14. I'm retired military so I know that Armies DO think for themselves.

I also know that because of John Kerry's inability to lead from the front lines this is the only REAL DEAL that you'll be thinking about for the next four years.....

[LittleClarkie]

16. We'd have been stopped in investigating the fraud ALREADY

if John Kerry was up front. It might make you feel better if he did. But it would be a grandstanding useless gesture. You could salute him all the way to the ground as he went down in flames if you wanted to, but it would be an ineffectual action just the same. The point is NOT to make you feel better, however. The point is to investigate the fraud.

That's better done with Kerry right where he is.

[deminflorida]

17. For God's sake they pointed out the Fraud in Ukraine with

Viktor Yushchenko out in the front and leading....

Hell the opposition even had tried to poison the guy and he still stood up for his people.

What the hell has become of our leaders in this country?

Do you really think that people believe that Yushchenko is grandstanding?

How can investigating Fraud be done better from where Kerry is right now?

By the way, just where the hell is he, anyway?

[LittleClarkie]

19. Maybe with Bush's backing, Kerry could do the same too

Amazing how Bush railed against fraud somewhere else, innit.

Kerry is not, repeat NOT, operating from a position of strength here. As such, falling on his sword wouldn't do any of us any good.

His position of strength right now is the Senate. I'd rather he stayed alive for the fight THERE.

I salute the Ukraine. They value democracy in much the same way that people in countries where religion was outlawed value it that much more. Americans for the most part aren't awake yet. If things get any weirder, they will be though.

[robbedvoter]

40. You don't ask for much, do ya? Did the incumbent back the

challenger in Ukraine? Nope. he stood up. They got another election. Courage helps.
In spite of some deluded fraud crusaders, W is not quite as dumb as to sabotage his own ill gotten power.

[tavalon]

32. Um, not to put too fine a point on it

our government orchestrated the Ukraine thing. Our government has no interest in orchestrating a home grown one.

[tavalon]

31. and I think the point the poster was trying to make

was that we need to stop looking outside of ourselves for our leaders. We need to take up the job ourselves, we need to be the patriots fighting against this fascism.

[Catch22Dem]

2. Good post

You said nothing wrong here.

[KoKo]

4. Much of what "hyphenate" says is true. I would differ on a couple of

points...but too tired to do an argument. A good post for thought...thanks.

[SoiledEarthLink]

5. The irony of moveon.org

The premise of moveon was that America needed to MOVE ON from the Clinton Impeachment and not sit and spin on it. As we all too well know the message from moveon.org is NOT to move on from the elections of 2000 and 2004 but to pound it into the skulls of anyone that will listen that Gore and Kerry really won and Bush lost both times. I guess there really is no other choice - otherwise it would be admitting defeat of our ideas and plans for America as liberals with a better vision of America's political future.

We need something to hangon to if we refuse to moveon.

[KoKo]

23. But those of us who know they lied, cheated and manipulated their way

into the White House the first time for Sure! (Proof from the recount done by the "Media Consortium" and those who know they did it a Second Time...can't rest until they are exposed. They've been working on this for over 40 years creating Think Tanks, allying themselves with Corporations and the Religious Right and the PNAC'ers and others who had visions of American Empire. Those who were sorry the Cold War was over in the Military/Industrial Complex.

Clinton tried to find a way to deal with them and he was "allowed" to be President...his personality and populist appeal won the hearts of Americans...but we don't have another Clinton and his policies only gave them room to devour more of America while they worked to discredit him and the Democratic Party by association with him.

Some folks in our party are already working to make us "back down, move on" and accept "do nothing Daschle's cohort Harry Reid and making us accept a House Leader who may be a find person, a wonderful mother and grandmother...but who is not what we need to run a minority party when we are in desperate times because of the very weak leaders we've had in the House and Senate for a decade.

If we lose our vote, we have nothing. If we allow lying, cheating and stealing to be the way we elect a President it doesn't matter whether we move Left, Right, Middle, or Up, Down and Sidways. We will never win again. It's not our ideas, it's that we didn't fight hard enough for them, and allowed ourselves to be used by the very people trying to co-opt us into this "navel gazing" and "anst" about our ideology being wrong for the times we live in. It's a Straw Man argument meant to sidetrack us from the crimes they have perpetrated on us and our Constitution. We must never give in on taking back our right to vote in a fair and consistent manner.

[seabeyond]

7. most people are good. Well, it's not true.

its not......it really is not true. what a concept. so basically i have to totally change the way i see huh.

hyphenate, i agree with what you are saying and i am oging to be a part of whatever we walk. but certainly this is what to address. i am really just trying to figure out how i want to do this.

i received letter from an dem org, saying k, you donated and participated, now we are going to have to give and work harder

sent an email back to the orginization:

I believe it was stolen across the nation. Until the Democratic Party start addressing the controversial subject like our votes, voter suppression, media control, it isn’t going to do any good me being a part of this battle. I really saw that our voice counted this last year, until it came to vote. For the third election in a row, the republicans lectured me on moral value as they lied, and stole votes, ran a campaign in dishonesty and the Democratic Party didn’t and still is not challenging them on it. I don’t feel that the democratic party is representing me, or the over 50% of this nation, nor those thru out the world that are depending on us to stand up for our values and what we represent.

If this organization or any other organization wants my participation, then I am going to have to see the democrats that have been elected as our leaders, stand up for all of us

I am a 43 year old conservative mother raising two boys in the panhandle of Texas. They went to a Christian private school, until just recently, two weeks ago, when I could no longer in good conscious allow my children to be in an environment of the hypocrisy of what a Christian is and what is not. If I am willing to stand up for who we are as a country, against those in my community, against the strong majority, as my husband owns a business dealing with these same people, then I at least expect it from my party leaders. Or leaders you all are not


Respectfully, and expecting more,
Much more

XXXXX XXXX

Amarillo, Texas


our own party has to understand this is our party, not theirs, it is our party and we want to hear some truth, and boldness and courage. otherwise these people we elect are useless. our own people have to understand

[robbedvoter]

11. Thanks, Mr Coulter. Did the South get over their actual loss of the Civil

War? I won twice - was robbed, and you advice me to go home and cook. Mighty nice of you.
Try imagining yourself - raped repeatedly - and getting this very advice. Then you'd have an inkling of how I feel.

[hyphenate]

13. I don't see anything in my initial post

That suggests you go home and cook. In fact, my message is far more clear: get ready to fight. We can't sit back and whine and moan about the loss. We have got to get the level of our anger up a few notches, and figure out ways to get back our country, even if it means going head to head in the mud pit.

We are the ones who have to define our goal, and it's not as intrinsically simple as it has been for the past four years. We know they're dirty rotten scoundrels, and we know there is nothing they won't stoop to doing if it means victory for them. If we have to bring our fight to that level, so be it. We can't pretend to be "better" than they are anymore--if we want to prove we are capable of changing the stagnant and corrupt current regime, we are going to have to fight just as dirty. It ain't gonna be pretty, but it's going to need to be done.

[robbedvoter]

29. Getting over things doesn't lead to fighting in my book. It leads to

eating ice cream from the box - if one gets over little things, or to selling out - if the things one gets over are core values. I'll keep my anger and my love for truth, thank you very much. Got plenty of tea cups - I won't cry in them, I'll throw them at enyone saying "get over it"

[quaoar]

12. What you're saying basically

is that we need to take a 2x4 and whup them all upside the head.

I disagree. I think it will take a 2x6 at least. Maybe a 4x4.

As far as what one person acting alone can do, I like this idea:

http://www.freewayblogger.com/

[hyphenate]

15. Good find, Doug

I like that guy's style. If we got a lot more like him, we might get that message across. :)

[quaoar]

20. Check out his manifesto

http://www.freewayblogger.com/manifesto.htm

[tavalon]

33. All it will take is each one of us

doing the freeway blogger thing in our home towns. I've done it twice here.

[Mist]

18. I agree hyphenate

But a lot of people needed a good bitch-and-moan session. I like your ideas, especially the pamphletting--we used to call it tabling. Set up tables and engage people in the issues. And NEVER let up on getting rid of BBV! Every country that practices democracy has a verifiable voting and vote-counting system--why are we stuck with these bogus machines w/no verifiable counts?

[Liberal Chad from WI]

21. NO WAY

Why the hell should i get over it? that is a totally open-ended question. You got one thign right in saying that this election is rigged. Bush is such an evil man that i never need to move on NEVER. Do you not realize that there was voter fraud and that there is stuff going on right now in tryign to prove it. That is exactly what Cobbs is doing in Ohio. Why not go through with it? It's more than just this election, the democratic party needs to stay strong and stick together for what we beleive is right and if we move on now we are giving in to what repubs. want and i will NEVER do that.

[shesemsmom]

22. I will get over it in 2006

when we take back 3 offices we lost. And I will get over it in 2008 when the DEMOCRATS take back the WHITE HOUSE> Thats when I'll be over it

[Fawn]

36. What makes you think...

the Dem's will take back the white house in 2008? We were cheated in 2000 with the help of ol' Jeb. Cheated again in 2004. What makes you think they won't do it again in 2008?

[robbedvoter]

41. And these miracles will be accomplished how? Do you own Diebold

shares?

[aka-chmeee]

24. The Ship Sank

Whenever I mention any of the above topics to my best friend (What ya gonna do? I've had him since before Reagan) he waves it off with a
"The Ship sank! Get over it!". Referring I guess to the TITANIC. I usually answer that "In 90 years, maybe I will!"
Trenches dug, gazing out across no man's land, but actual warfare seems unlikely.

[quaoar]

25. The ship was torpedoed

[saracat]

26. We don't need the truth. We don't need honesty. We don't need to convince

We need to bring back the Daley machine . we need to learn to cheat and vote the dead. We need to smear and destroy their candidates and we have to learn NEVER to ever trust any republican, then we will win. We must make winning everything. That is what they did and they won!

[robbedvoter]

30. Not becoming a thug at the expense of democracy - you were sarcastic

I hope.

[saracat]

34. Well, we certainly did better with the Daley machine , didn't we?

If this is a case of "I'd rather be right than president.". I 'd rather be president!;)

[KoKo]

27. kick..........

[YNGW]

28. You lost me.

You did real good admitting that "most of us are still morose, bitter and filled with both frustration and the inability to accept the results of that election."

But then you went into this "we didn't really lose, it was stolen from us" stuff.

Waking up and realizing that Kerry didn't win is healthy. Not facing that we were out-voted isn't. Quite frankly, I'm just not interested in "teach(ing) even one person at a time" along side people who aren't even able to face that we legitimately got beat. And there's several at DU like that. I've faced up to what happened. Maybe it's just going to take some more time for others, I don't know. But until some are honest with themselves, I don't see how they can hope to go from door to door (so to speak) and be honest with others.

[saracat]

35. "legitimately got beat?" Your kidding right?

I have no interest in even working sisde by side with people who tolerate election fraud. If this country really elected Bush, then they deserve him and we should get the hell out because this country isn't worth saving! But I don't beieve they did elect him. Maybe I just hope there are more smart than stupid people. JMHO. In any event there is less reason to suppose he was elected than there was fraud.

[robbedvoter]

37. Seems to me there is a need in them to believe in that. "Losers" is

easier to accept somehow then "we didn't stand a chance from the get go".
being a majority entails a responsibility they are not ready for.

[YNGW]

38. Well.......

Actually, that has nothing to do with it. But, I can tell there's still those out there who need more time. And, there's some out there who will never have enough time. Personally, I'm moving forward along with others. Those who want to continue to say the same thing they've been saying for the last 4 years for another 4 years are welcome to do so.

[robbedvoter]

39. Healthy? It's not Kerry to me - it's ABB - and I don't buy that we're a

minority. I don't buy that after NYT wrote dems were outregistering GOP-ers 10 to one, Kerry got less votes than Gore. Same in Florida - one week of long lines in Dem districts didn't produce one vote over 2000.
How is it healty tho believe you are a minority and your candidate/coalition was less deserving of support than an imbecile who was flubbing his one line"war on terra - can't be won - oh, it can - hard work"
Just out of some desire to hack our candidate, you end up legitimizing the mock campaign they lead - loyalty oaths, same audience bused from one rally to another.
I am not advocating perfection in our candidate, party - far from it - but we were light years above the travesty they put up (remember the debates?)
So, what the hell is healthy in your truth hiding attitude then?