A student says of Dean: "his quirkiness is what makes him our champion"

[madfloridian]

MY comments: This Minnesota student, like many of us, understood the scream very well. We were screaming with him over what had been done to him. Only now, some of the culprits are speaking out. It is causing more attacks, but I don't care anymore. When you attempt to take a party back, it may not be a pretty thing. It may take a long time, and we will get insulted at Democratic forums and by Democratic leaders. It is ok, though. We understood the "scream."

Christopher Oster: Democrats have their own Reagan in Howard Dean

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5131278.html

It is time for the Democratic Party to close its ranks and unite behind a visionary statesman -- Howard Dean.

Eleven months ago, the voices of millions of Deaniacs cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. Political lyricist Howard Dean entranced a nation with his soaring post-Iowa vocals, only to meet the frenzied denunciation of a mainstream media which mistook his mellifluous chant for a momentary lapse into madness.

SNIP..."Enjoying new political prospects due to a stuttering economy and the bloody quagmire in Iraq, Democrats made a bland and responsible choice, nominating a tall, eloquent Vietnam veteran named John Kerry. Howard Dean wasn't "electable" enough; choosing a progressive from Vermont might not only cost Democrats the presidential election, but could even jeopardize gains in the House and the Senate!

The Kerry-led Democratic Party then lost four Senate seats, including that of Minority Leader Tom Daschle, lost House seats, and even managed to screw up that one great consolation -- turnout, which usually benefits Democrats. The collective reaction from the wilting violets of the Democratic Party: "Our bad luck -- we'll see you again in four years."END SNIP..

A lot of students in a private college in our city supported Howard Dean. I understand how this young man felt, as they felt this sense of betrayal by the media. One of them called me the other day when they heard about the ad David Jones admitted to putting together. They again felt a sense of betrayal. I understand how the author of this feels. I, too, feel betrayed.

[WindRavenX]

1. It's becoming clear...

...the only way that the Democratic party can survive is if more people like Howard Dean head the party. I used to not be a big fan of Dean- something about him just rubbed me the wrong way- but after hearing Dean speak at my college, I am completely falling for him. Although I still believe he may not be the most "progressive" canidate ideology wise, he ACTS progressive and right now, that is extremely important.
Oh, and he has fire in his belly. Thank god.
So, in short, Dean is winning me over.

[Radical Activist]

41. Why is it enough

to ACT like a progressive when you aren't one? There are a lot of names for that. Opportunistic and fake came to mind. I want someone who actually is what they act like when they speak to liberals and college students.

[mopinko]

2. 2 hopes keep me blue and not green

the hope that my party will stand up and reject this election, and the hope that howard dean is the next chairman of the dnc. the party has dropped the fraWd ball, if you ask me. i withold judgement until jan 6.

[madfloridian]

3. Love the car! Can't read all the stickers, though. Great car.

:hi:

[mopinko]

10. more here

http://www.pinkobuttons.com/morants.html
link to more pics. need to take some more, tho. many new ones since 11/2.

[SheathedPeace]

4. Unless he stops his ban on medical cannibis I don't need him

Just say no to leaders with no vision.

[madfloridian]

5. Do some research.

He has a very reasonable stance on it. He wants to be a medical decision, not a political one, like abortion should be between a woman and her doctor.

There was another thread here about it.

[SheathedPeace]

9. I have. Here's some for you

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/interestg/mmp030403.html



March 4, 2003--Outside a Dean for America fundraiser at Capitol City Brewing Company, supporters of medical marijuana including Marijuana Policy Project director of communications Bruce Mirken (in suit) seek to draw attention to Gov. Dean's position on the issue. Mirken said the group was targeting the former Vermont governor because "Dean played such a pivotal role in killing Vermont's medical marijuana bill last year." "I have friends who are alive because of medical marijuana, and Howard Dean is willing to put them in jail," he said. The group handed out flyers asking, "Governor Dean: Why should people with AIDS and cancer go to jail for using medical marijuana?"

[Individualist]

11. Wow - five protesters!

That's almost as "impressive" as a freeper protest.:crazy:

[SheathedPeace]

13. Your point?

Why do you not support medical marijuana?

[Individualist]

14. Please show me where I said I do

or do not support medical marijuana.

[MissB]

19. On top of that, could you please tell me when you stopped

beating your spouse?

/sarcasm

[Cheswick2.0]

12. well isn't this just a crock of shit?

Where here do you show me what Dean says about the issue?

[Individualist]

15. Indeed it is n/t

[SheathedPeace]

17. Dean is on record of not supporting it.

http://www.letfreedomgrow.com/articles/vt020131.htm

Last year, Rep. Fred Maslack, R-Poultney, was the lead sponsor of a similar measure that was referred to the House Health and Welfare Committee but never had a hearing.

Gov. Howard Dean has been on record for years as a firm opponent of legalizing marijuana in any form, but Zuckerman said he didn't take that into account when he introduced his bill.

"Just because the governor says something isn't good doesn't mean it doesn't have merit," he said. "It should be a decision between a doctor and a patient."

Zuckerman's bill has strong support from the Marijuana Policy Project in Washington, which says 12 states are reviewing similar legislation this year.

snip

In this sickening case it's a damn REPUBLICAN supporting pot for Christ sake! Don't hang the name Democrat on anyone that won't legalize it.

[Bouncy Ball]

22. More...

from http://www.stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/292/deanbending.shtml

In an e-mail sent to fellow drug reformers, Masel reported that Dean, recent former governor of Vermont, used the occasion to "clarify" his position on medical marijuana, which has reported to be anti. According to Masel, Dean claimed he opposed the Vermont medical marijuana bill because he does not believe "medical decisions should be made by legislatures."

Dean proclaimed that as president, he would "on the day I take office direct the FDA to take a fresh look at the existing studies, and issue a report in 60 days," and would then implement the report. Dean then added that "speaking not as a candidate, but as a physician," he would "expect the report to recommend marijuana be approved for chemotherapy and AIDS, but not for glaucoma, because we have new medications for glaucoma that are even better. And no medication is completely safe."

And another article:
http://www.commondreams.org/news2003/0923-05.htm


His position was more nuanced than you make it out to be.

[cali]

29. Uhh, this is Vermont

If you knew anything at all about my state, you'd know we have a different breed of repubs. Most of them are more liberal than many dems from red states. Our repub gov is pro drug reimportation and is suing the feds on air pollution. He's also pro-choice. Lots of reasonable repubs here.

That said, Dean was lousy on medical marijuana, but liberals and progressives kept voting for him here. His posture on the issue has improved, but hey, if you feel this is the most important issue, even though chair of the DNC has nothing to do with such policy issues, you go for it.

[Cheswick2.0]

37. he doesn't seem lousy on the issue to me

he sounds like someone educated in medicine and the law.

[cali]

52. I love Dean but

he was pretty determined that the medical marijuana bill not be passed. I respect his right to his point of view, but I think there's a great deal of compelling evidence as to the efficacy of medical marijuana for certain illnesses. It may come mostly from anecdtal evidence, but it's benefits seem pretty obvious. Dean's moderated his views on MM since stepping down as Governor, and I don't see it as a big deal, but he was a too stubborn about it.

[Cheswick2.0]

36. Please show me what Dean says about the issue

I am not interested in what some one issue obsessed person is ranting about.

[RetroLounge]

45. Wow! 5 stoners protesting. Impressed.

Where's the freeper Pot-a-potty?

RL

[JaneQPublic]

16. Here is Dean answering Larry King's question about medical marijuana

Q: What should the federal government do about medical marijuana?

A: I don't think they should throw people in jail, but here's what I think. The process by which medical marijuana is being legalized is the wrong process. I don't like it when politicians interfere in medicine. It's why I am very pro-choice, because I don't think that is the government's business. So what I will do as president is, I will require the FDA within 12 months to evaluate marijuana and see if it is, in fact, a decent medicine or not. If it is, for what purposes -- and I suspect it will be for cancer patients and HIV/AIDS patients. And it should be allowed for that. But I suspect it will not be allowed for things like glaucoma. But we have to do the FDA studies. I think marijuana should be treated like every other drug in the process and there shouldn't be a special process which is based on politics to legalize it.

Source: CNN Larry King Live Interview with Howard Dean Aug 4, 2003

http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Howard_Dean_Drugs.htm

[bklyncowgirl]

27. That sounds surprisingly like common sense.

Let's find out if it works.

If it works use it.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bullimiami]

6. HIs HONESTY is what made him my champion.

I KNEW if he said something I could take it to the bank.
I KNEW he wouldnt lie to me in political expediency.
I KNEW that what we saw was what we were getting.

He was a little too conservative in some things for my taste but he captured me and I worked for him until he told us it was over.

'

[Melodybe]

7. Exactly, I defy anyone here to find something Howard promised that

he did not deliver.

He promised to campaign for whoever the nominee was, and he worked his butt off doing just that.

Dean went all over the country for Kerry, he defended him on television, he debated Ralph Nader, and he spoke out on election fraud. He did more than any of the eight other candidates for Kerry. With the exception of Edwards, for obvious reasons.

Dean keeps his word, and he stands up for what he believes. He is the only reason I still give a shit about what happens in the democratic party.

End of story.

[mattclearing]

49. Amen to that.

eom

[Bouncy Ball]

8. The media didn't mistake anything...

"...only to meet the frenzied denunciation of a mainstream media which mistook his mellifluous chant for a momentary lapse into madness."

The media didn't make a mistake on that. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing. They were tearing Dean down, period.

[jobycom]

18. Bullshit. Dean finished a distant third before the scream

I don't like him. I don't really hate him, but I don't like him, and I can tell you that I and a lot of very liberal Democrats where I live felt like he was being crammed down our throats by the media and by the Democratic Party. That's the point Deaniacs don't get. Dean wasn't a victim of the media, he was a creation of the media, and Iowa revealed he had less support than the media pretended he did.

As for the way they piled on his scream, of course they did, it was goofy. I thought it was goofy when I saw it live, before they even commented on it. But more important, his inability to capitalize on that showed he was not ready for prime time. With his name being broadcast more than the person who won Iowa, he should have used that name recognition to his advantage, but he couldn't. He wouldn't have beaten Bush, he'd have lost by 10%. Bush faced negative press worse than that several times during his 2000 campaign, and always turned it his way. Every dumbass mistatement he made was turned cutesy by his handlers, and it made people like him. Dean couldn't even do that.

I don't expect any Dean supporters to accept this, but it has to be said. If he becomes chair of the DNC, the party will fragment even further. It's heading the wrong way now, everyone knows, but Dean isn't the right way, he's just another fork leading off into the void.

He'll get it, thought. That will be rammed down our throats, too, because we won't get to vote on it this time, so we won't be able to elect someone else, instead.

[Bouncy Ball]

20. You don't really hate him, huh?

Mmmmkay.

As for what place he finished in, that wasn't germane to the fact that the media didn't have to make a federal issue out of his yell, but they did.

The only thing in your whole post that I really object to is the statement that Dean was a "media creation." Now THAT'S bullshit and it's downright insulting to those of us who discovered him and liked him VERY early on and worked our asses off for his campaign. People LOVED him, they supported him in droves. Deal with it. No one crammed him down your throat. Sounds more like you were bitter that he got the attention that your choice didn't.

Of course the media jumped on the Dean bandwagon. It was obvious he had something different going on. He got a lot of Democrats very very excited again.

His inability to CAPITALIZE on it? First you complain that Dean was shoved down your throat, then you complain that he didn't CAPITALIZE on his scream???

Oh that's rich, really rich.

What's stopping you from contacting the DNC and letting them know how you feel?

Geez. Oh so sorry our support and enthusiasm for Dean felt like he was being rammed down your throat. :eyes:

And who do YOU suggest for DNC chair?

I was NEVER one to trumpet Dean on this board, I didn't take part in the primary wars (I watched them, I wasn't posting) and I have never cut down any of the other nominees, so why all the Dean bashing? I could just as easily sit here and say all the things I thought about all the nominees AND their supporters, but what good would come of that now? Seriously.

[jobycom]

31. It's a discussion board, so we're discussing

Just because Dean had a group of loyal supporters doesn't mean he wasn't a media creation. The hype built about him far exceeded his popularity, as the elections proved.

I don't hate Dean. I hate that he was inflated into a serious candidate. I hate that it's happening again. He strikes me as the type of candidate who can really fire up a minority of people who agree with him, make them so passionate that they scream and cheer louder than the rest, but he doesn't strike me as the type who can get a majority of the votes, either for himself, or for someone else. Sometimes the people most able to fire up their own followers are the least able to convince others to vote for them.

Going on message alone, I loved Dean. I just didn't believe in him as a leader. In fact, I believed the opposite-- he didn't look like a leader to me. A leader of his own followers, yes. A leader of the overall party, or the nation, no, I couldn't see him as that.

Sorry you took my posts personally. I didn't mean for it to come off as an attack.

[cali]

44. He wasn't a media creation.

By and large, the media did HD no favors. They didn't like him, and quite a few members of the media were candid about it.
It was Dean's message and his ability to speak directly that made him into a serious candidate. You don't want to deal in facts, fine, but Dean as media creation is laughable now and it was laughable then. As far as being unable to get the majority of the vote, same goes for JK in the general. Losing a primary or general election shouldn't dictate mandatory retirement from the political arena. I also want to note that Dean was elected 5 times in Vermont; clearly a majority of voters here deemed him electable.

[jobycom]

56. You know, simply repeating the word "laughable" is not dealing in facts

The fact is that every time I turned on my TV I heard that Dean was the frontrunner, Dean was the one to beat, Dean had the base mobilized, Dean had it all wrapped up, and no one could catch him. I didn't see polling evidence of this, I just kept hearing it, over and over. I didn't hear Kerry talked about favorable before Iowa, I didn't here Edwards or Clark talked about. Just Dean, and now and then Gephardt. Those are the facts. People knew who Dean was because the media kept talking about him.

That's the national media, I don't listen to local media, and I have no idea what was being discussed up north. But that's what I saw any time I turned on the TV. I was starting to believe that Dean was the one Rove thought he could beat since the media was hyping him so much.

I don't know what you mean by the media not doing him any favors. I just know that Dean was the only candidate I saw talked about on the media, and until after Iowa, it was mostly positive, or at least as positive as the media would make any Democrat sound. Along the lines of "He's the obvious choice of those idiot Democrats, so if you're a Democrat you have to like him. But of course, only our darling lover Bush can be taken seriously."

That's what I saw. Those are the facts I saw. I'm not an outsider to this process, either. I was president of a large Democratic club here in Austin, and spoke with a lot of party leaders, county and state. Some of them supported Dean, the rest felt the way I did, though we were all hesitant to say it in front of Dean supporters. I had not made my mind up yet, so I watched everyone and everything closely.

[cali]

58. You do realize (or maybe you don't)

that we all view life- and that includes news information- through the prism of our own biases. Let me give you a simple and concrete example: When I was pregnant, I saw pregnant women everywhere. Never saw so many pregnant women, either before or after. You didn't like HD, so you saw what you were inclined to see regarding the news coverage. I saw the same (probably) national news as you and read it completely differently. So who's right? At least I'm recognizing my bias.

And I didn't just say your response was laughable, I gave reasons I believe you're wrong.

[Melodybe]

59. That's not true, one week before Iowa, all democrats heard from the MSM

was that Dean was "unelectable" and that Kerry the war hero's star was rising.

After Dean said he was going to break up the media monopolies in Hardball, it was down hill from there. Go back and read some headlines from one or two weeks b/f Iowa. If it mentions Dean it is bad/ Kerry good. We fought about it endlessly here, and it is the truth.

[madfloridian]

21. Who cares what Dean people think?

Really, now.

Guess what. He won't get chair. He will keep on speaking out, and his base is growing. Maybe he won't get crammed down your throat.

[Cheswick2.0]

40. bullshit....the media had it in for Dean way before the "scream"...but

It was the party which took Dean down in Iowa. So I really don't care what you think. It is a matter of record now and John Kerry, Gephardt, Clinton, Vilsack, the DLC and Clark can KMA.

[madfloridian]

23. How the hell did my thread get turned into a marijuana thread?

.

[MissB]

24. Because some people are determined

to take every Dean conversation off track? :shrug:

[RetroLounge]

46. and seems to be the same people too.

:eyes:

They're still scared of Dean. Makes you go Hmmmmmmm....

RL

[Guaranteed]

65. Fucking bullshit infiltration? nt

[tjdee]

25. I don't know if I require quirk in my DNC chair.

I don't particularly care whom the chair is, as long as he (or she, bwahahaha) can raise money, look good on television, and can do all the schmoozing he needs to do.


Btw, when exactly did Deaniacs (the word which, IIRC, Dean supporters here disliked) scream out in terror? :eyes:

[madfloridian]

26. Who cares, really? Who cares.

As long as there is something going on like this, who cares?

:shrug: :shrug:

[Pepperbelly]

28. Despite all the Dean boosterism I've seen here lately ...

I am beginning to think that Howard might be the man for the job. One of the best indicators I have heard was on C-SPAN this morning. A rightie called into Washington Journal and started tearing into Howard. This sucker's head was spinning. And then he said something that made me think. He said that selecting Dean would GUARANTEE the anihilation of the Democratic Party.

So I'm left wondering if this clearly dumb-ass rightie had the acumen to try a reverse psychology on us but then realized the truth: Howard scares the shit out of them.

And that gives the good Doc tons of my consideration, for what it's worth. I am on his side.

On eidt, Howard said something in a speech that moved me totally to his side in this when he said that we have to be able to punch our way off the ropes. He understands the viciousness of these right wing fucks. Good for Howard, I say.

[janx]

30. I've seen that kind of reaction by the wingnuts to Dean too, Pepperbelly.

And you're right about it.

[Guaranteed]

66. I've also seen Republicans that like him.

They respect him, because they know he has the leadership.

[jobycom]

32. Good post, PB

I don't agree, but you make me think about it.

Maybe that's the difference between me and the rest. I don't think we'll win by fighting. That's the Republicans' game. I think we'll win by including. To me being a Democrat is as much about how I believe as what I believe. I live in Texas. I grew up in Mississippi, where my family still lives. If we get into another civil war, I'm divided against my family and friends. I don't see a party which excludes them as being a good party. We shouldn't compromise on our core values. We shouldn't compromise on the invasion, especially. But we should try to win the nation to our side, not just rally the people who already agree with us and turn them against those who don't.

I'm a Democrat because I believe that what we do and what we stand for includes everyone, and is best for everyone, and allows everyone to achieve what they most want to achieve. We are the party of inclusion, of diversity, of allowing and accepting progress, not the party that wants to hang on to some past way of life for our own kind, even it's a past way of life I enjoy. That's the Republicans. I don't want to become the Republicans in methodology or ideals. Both are compromises.

I think that's my basic gut unstinct on Dean. There are some people who are Democrats for the same reason Republicans are Republicans-- for what they or their group gets out of the party. Usually when I dislike a Democrat, that's why. That's how I see Gephardt and Biden, for instance. It's all about them, and their constituency. I don't put Dean quite in their category-- he is more inclusive than they are, and a better person, it seems to me. But I still get the feeling he cares more about his supporters than about the rest of the nation.

I think a lot of people felt that, and I think that's why the scream speech resonated so strongly. He wasn't reaching out to the nation the way Edwards and Kerry and even Gephardt did. He was reaching out to his supporters. That's exactly what I don't like about him, and I think the nation picked that up from his speech, even if they didn't articulate it.

I don't know who should be head of the DNC. I'd like someone like Gore, or Ann Richards or James Carville. Someone who knows how to fight for instead of against something. I just don't know who that would be.

[Bouncy Ball]

33. You said

"I'm a Democrat because I believe that what we do and what we stand for includes everyone, and is best for everyone, and allows everyone to achieve what they most want to achieve. We are the party of inclusion, of diversity, of allowing and accepting progress, not the party that wants to hang on to some past way of life for our own kind, even it's a past way of life I enjoy. That's the Republicans. I don't want to become the Republicans in methodology or ideals. Both are compromises."

Dean has said very much the SAME thing that you said in that post.

Also, Dean was focused on the people in that room that night. He was talking to them, he wasn't talking to the millions out in TV land. He's not polished enough (or wasn't then, anyway) to think of that and that's one of the very things that drew me to him--his REALness. He wasn't a media animal. He was speaking directly to the crowd of people in front of him.

I live in Texas, too, and I think you have misinterpreted Dean's desire to fight. He's the last person to want to be like the republicans. If he were, there's no way I'd support him a single bit. He believes in standing up for the values Democrats believe in, and if you'll remember, he was the ONLY nominee who ever even MENTIONED the South. He wanted Democrats to reach out to the South--remember that? And what did he get for it? Smacked down.

[jobycom]

53. Good point

About the South. I remember his pickup truck comment. It got shredded a lot here on DU, but that was one time I liked him.

Maybe you've seen something I haven't. I don't see the same Dean you do, and judging from a lot of the posts, what his supporters seem to like about him is what I say I don't. Either I'm misreading him, or some of them are.

[Bouncy Ball]

63. LOL!

I researched that guy so heavily I'd be shocked if I were misreading him. I learned more about him than most people knew (SOME Deaniacs were like that, LOL! But not me. Ahem.). He actually talked quite a bit about reaching out to the south--it was a biggie to him and I remember at a VERY early speech that was hardly a blip on the media radar he said "We CANNOT win without the south." I was impressed by that. As someone living in a southern state, I haven't seen a Dem on the national level pay attention to us in a while.

Anyway. It's been good talking to you about him!

[madfloridian]

39. When they are going over a cliff.....

and we follow to get along, then we go over the cliff as well.

Sometimes we have to stop, think, say no, and start to fight.

I am also a product of the South. I am a normal human being, able to see that my SBC is wrong now. They are wrong, so I fight back against their morality police.

It has divided my family. But that is their problem if they want to smile as they go over the cliff. I am not going with them willingly.

[jobycom]

54. I'm not sure what you are saying

But if you're implying I'm following the Republicans or the rest of the nation off a cliff, I'm not. I'm trying to turn them around. What I don't like are the ones who are willing to let them fall of the cliff, maybe even push them off the cliff, so we can get our turn.

I may have misread you, though, which means that this, like much of what I say, is nonsense. :-)

[Zomby Woof]

34. his quirkiness is also why he got his ass kicked in Iowa

Message to Dean supporters: Get over it.

When is his next bowel movement? We need to KNOW!

[Cheswick2.0]

43. and if you keep repeating a lie long enough people will believe it

the party is why he lost in Iowa. Dean haters really should get over it. DFA is out to stop our losing slide into oblivian. Why that brings out the haters is beyond me.

[RetroLounge]

47. Stop the Dean hate.

It doesn't suit you well.

RL

[mandyky]

35. And his supporters weren't just very liberal college kids either

Dean attracted a lot of Republicans and Independents to our movement. I agree that Dean is the Dems' Reagan, even a Republican consulting group wrote an article to that topic.

Dean actually listens to people and changes his minds when facts change. He used to be for Free Trade but then while campaigning in Iowa people helped him see it hurt folks. I trust Dean a heck of a lot more on Medical marijuana than a lot of other people in our party, like the DLC folks.

Just to show you a Deaniac can give criticism to Dean as well as be one of his supporters - If he plans to talk about religion, like books of the Bible and such, he needs to have a crash course on that. It wasn't a big mistake, but I think what he was doing was making a joke - patience of Job sound familiar? It just happens to be an Old Testament book not New. I am sure a bunch of Liberal Religious Left folks would be glad to help Dean out on learning this stuff.

[XemaSab]

61. word

He doesn't say things "just" to get elected. He speaks from the heart, and says what he thinks, even to the point of confessing weakness. He's not into the dogma, and that's why people either love him or hate him. Either he says what we feel and identify with, or he's spouting something totally different that we're uncomfortable with, because we've never heard it before.

[Ripley]

38. Why do so many DUers HATE Howard Dean?

I don't get it. Some of them say he isn't liberal enough (too fiscally conservative or whatever) and some of them say he's too liberal and would never carry the red states.

Why do they hate him? I mean have they given a reason other than he didn't win in Iowa? I see lots of them are Clark supporters...well which primary did Clark win? Or any of the other candidates?

We all know this election was marketed as a "fall in lockstep, a united front, ABB" in order to kick out the chimp. So Kerry was touted as "electable" and everyone followed suit in the primaries. Dean never imploded. He is right on almost ALL of the issues and problems of our country right now. Why hate the man who speaks truth?

[LizW]

42. Before Iowa, I thought it was fear

I thought people were genuinely afraid that Dean could never win and that the worst of all possible things would happen, Bush would get four more years.

After Iowa, I thought it was fear that Dean's supporters would not support Kerry and the worst of all possible things would happen, Bush would get four more years.

Now that the worst has happened, in spite of the electable Kerry getting the nomination and Dean and his supporters throwing their support behind him, I'm just at a loss.

Frankly, the handful of people who jump into every thread with the Dean hate may just be people who enjoy controversy and shit-stirring. There are some in every group.

[mandyky]

55. Because he almost won

and scared the hell out of the DC establishment! And memes resulted to help derail and deride him, and the rest as they say is history. But now Dean might be our future and that drives some people nuts. I'm not sure what they think Dean and Deaniacs are gonna do, but we are here to stay, even though Dean did not win the primaries, even if he doesn't win the DNC Chair position.

[The Traveler]

48. IT WASN'T A SCREAM ... IT WAS A REBEL YELL!!!!

sorry for shouting, but being from the South, I know one when I hear one. Not delivered with expertise, to be sure, but with considerable gusto, showing if not practice at this honorable form of defiant expression then at least a certain aptitude.

So the MSM calls it a "scream" thereby emasculating him in the minds of the voters. A prelude to "Girlie man". Etc. Bastards.

But Howard is not so easily quelled ... a true human remaining defiant in defeat and holding inexorably to his purpose. In the end, the Blitzers and O'Reillys will be revealed as impotent wretches they really are.

BTW ... I was and remain a Clark Democrat, but that just means I know quality when I see it and Howard Dean is a man of the finest human qualities. All go. No quit.

The DLC is going out of business, folks. It's ours, this party. We even paid for it in 2003 and 2004. We'll continue to pay for it, and that makes it ours. We're taking it back. And we will come salvage for our country.

[janx]

50. YES!

Yes, it was.

But you'll have a hard time selling that to those people who revile Dean for being a "northeastern liberal"... ;-)

Dean loves people, and he loves his country. He really does. If he hasn't perfected the form in the mode of that from the Civil War days, you can be sure that he if familiar with it from a time before that...from the Revolution.

The sentiment, after all, is the same.

Thanks for your eloquent Southern post.

[DinahMoeHum]

51. Yep, let's use the scream as our battle cry. All together now. . .

Y-E-E-E-E-A-A-A-A-R-R-R-G-G-G-H-H-H !!!!!!!

:kick::kick::kick:

[jobycom]

57. What?

I love your passion on this, and you make a great point about the word "scream" being degrading-- although why that has to be phrased in terms of male=good and female=weak, I don't get-- but that wasn't a rebel yell. Being a southerner, I've never heard a rebel yell that went anything like that.

I mean, it did sound like a wayward battle cry to me, kind of like what you'd scream charging into battle, but rebel yell? They must do them differently where you are than they did them in south Mississippi.

Great post, though. Great points.

[The Traveler]

60. What do ya expect from a guy from Vermont?

Look, he was trying. Clearly needs more practice, but definitely has the right attitude.
:evilgrin:

[Johnny Noshoes]

62. He's actually

originally from New Yawk - the capital of attitude :evilgrin:

I got this recently from an old friend who is an evangelical:

"First time I ever voted democrat...not as good as Dean would have been...actually...an arrogant rich ass...but the Texas fool was a lot worse of a choice."

Now I disagree with his characterization of Kerry but I never thought this guy would ever vote for a Democrat. So you see maybe Howard CAN bring some new people to our side.

"You don't go to war with the president you want.
You go to war with the president you have."
-- Randi Rhodes,

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely,the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
-- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)