Should Moderates Be Purged From The Democratic Party?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

It is up to the respondents to define moderate.

[mitchtv]

1. from leadership only

[itzamirakul]

25. Agree...therefore

I will pass on voting in this poll.

[Radical Activist]

52. agree

which is why I don't want Dean to be DNC chair.

[ogradda]

2. now if we have to keep zell miller

who do we have that would be o.k. to toss out?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. Zell Purged Himself

If not in action surely in deed..

[blondeatlast]

28. Zell isn't a moderate; he's a Radical Right.

He's about as Democratic in philosophy as I am Republican in mine.

Zilch, that is.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. Everybody is free to wear sunscreen

[orpupilofnature57]

4. SAM NUNN,GOOD ARGUMENT for not letting the wrong element

ALWAYS KNEW HE WAS A WOLF IN DEM'S CLOTHING.Let them all in, but watch how they walk and talk.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. funny...

if you asked jimmy carter he thought sam nunn was a great public servant....


also, i'd rather have sam nunn in representing ga. rather than Saxby Chambliss or that Issacson fella...

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good...

[orpupilofnature57]

11. nothing against pres. Carter,after the J F K ASSASSINATION

Carters administration and decision gave these neo-con artists, THE BIGGEST foot hold and nunn types helped.NUNN KISSED RONNIE'S ASS,LET OLLIE OF THE HOOK TOO,ENABLER.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Funny Thing About Sam Nunn

Despite the reputation as a "hawk" he voted against Gulf War 1...


There aren't any major Democratic elected figures in GA anymore but those that got elected tended to be moderate or conservative like the aforementioned Sam Nunn, Zell Miller, and Roy Barnes... Even Max Cleland wasn't as liberal as his his post senate career record suggests..

[Crunchy Frog]

7. I don't want them purged from the party.

I just don't want them trying to purge progressives from the party, or claiming to be the sole arbiters of what the party stands for. I would also prefer to see them spewing more venom at the Republicans than at Michael Moore, that's just me though.

We should be a big tent, but that implies a degree of tolerance on everybody's part.

[blondeatlast]

29. Very well said. Thank you. nt

[cruadin]

55. Agree---well said. n/t

[Zhade]

87. Damn straight, CF! Of course, the corporatist sellouts DO have to go.

True moderates can be pretty cool, though. :smoke:

[JI7]

8. no, i kind of like Robert Byrd

[imenja]

9. sure, and purge the Democrats from congress while you're at it

because that will be the result of such Stalinist purges. Why don't we focus on the issues that are most important rather than eating our own? What issues and principles do you believe should be the core of the party? What do you feel most compelled to work toward? The Democratic party is at a crossroads. I'd like to see us focusing our energy on making the party stronger, smarter, and more representative of the interests of the American people. Fomenting hatred and division within the party ranks amounts to political suicide.

We need more people supporting us, not fewer. Unless of course you want the Dem's to hold the same sort of power that the Constitutionalist or Socialist Workers parties do. I'm sure Karl Rove would be more than happy to offer his assistance in carrying out such plans.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. I Merely Asked The Question ...

If you can read my posts you can clearly see where my sympathies lie....

As Socrates noted many years ago you can arrive at the truth or as close as humans can get to it by simply asking questions...

[orpupilofnature57]

12. he also said, all we can see are shadows.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. We Have A Two Party Federal System

It would seem the two parties have to be broad as possible....

[scarletwoman]

34. You don't "arrive at the truth" by asking the WRONG question.

For a question to have any value it must first be framed correctly. Your question is useless because it posits false choices on two levels.

First of all, there is no way to "purge" elected officials from a party. Their constituents either vote for them or not. There exists no mechanism to expel people from the Democratic party. The party can endorse or withhold endorsement from a candidate, it cannot excommunicate an already elected office-holder.

Secondly, leaving the label "moderate" undefined makes the question meaningless on its face. If there is not an agreed upon criteria for labelling someone a moderate, then all you have is subjective judgement -- not a means of arriving at "truth".

The REAL question isn't being asked here. The real question has to do with defining what the Democratic party should stand for, and which Democratic office-holders best embody that stance.

Alternately, one might ask which Democratic office-holders best serve the interests of their constituents? Which Democratic office-holders best serve the interests of we the voters?

Which Democratic office-holders best uphold truth and the good of the country against the forces that are bringing harm to our civil society, to the economic well-being of the citizens, to our security, to our environment, and to our Constitution?

This is not a matter of moderate/liberal/conservative, it's a matter of who is best serving the public interest. We can either proffer or withhold support -- but we cannot "purge".

sw

[imenja]

90. Questions are good, but I prefer them on issues rather than labels

Yours elicited a strong response from me. I don't think labels are helpful, but I would like to know your views on which policies and principles are most important in the party. DU provides a good forum for us to explore such questions.

I'll suggest a few here: electoral reform: a uniform electoral voting system, uniform at least within a given state.
Public financing of elections or a voluntary public system like Arizona's clean elections initiative.
Ending corporate subsidies and give aways and instead using that money for the American people: education, health care, jobs training, etc...

[AntiCoup2K4]

85. Some of them should be.

While it sucks to lose a Senate seat in South Dakota, I really don't miss Tutu Tommy very much.

[Pepperbelly]

14. how can you purge people who have equal rights to the party and ...

its direction?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Stalin Did

and he did it on trumped up charges...

[Pepperbelly]

20. Are you saying you want to be like Stalin? nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. No

and any reading of my posts 5, 6, 10, 13, and 15 claearly indicate I feeel otherwise....


As LBJ said "I rather have my "opponents in the tent pissing out then outside the tent pissing in."

[Pepperbelly]

22. cool ... nt

[patricia92243]

17. I'll leave everybody being the same up to the Republicans.

[blondeatlast]

32. Hear, hear... and I think we are going to find that they are a broader

tent than we think they are.

Old line conservatives are going to start going ape shit over the deficit.

Wait, I said that 2 years ago. Nevermind.

[gottaB]

18. Typical

not even a "heck no" option

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. It's A Poll To Inspire Thoughtful And Perhaps Passionate Discussion...

I didn't want to prejudice the answer by coloring a yes vote...

[gottaB]

24. exactly

;)

[scarletwoman]

37. Your poll only "inspires" dismay,

that anyone would think that such an ill-defined and false choice had any merit whatsoever.

sw

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. It Was A Mere Question...

It provoked discussion...


And as Mao said "before you speak investigate...


Anybody that read my posts in this thread and my posts in toto knows I am not in favor of purging anyone...

[scarletwoman]

50. Please read my post #34 in this thread. (n/t)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

59. I read it...

I might not be as eloquent as you but I was taught there were no such things as stupid questions... Only stupid answers....

[xchrom]

23. won't vote on this

leftists must do a better job proslytising their beliefs.
progressives, leftists , liberal democrats, etc have been swinging from the back foot since reagan -- that has to stop.
what liberals of all stripes have in their favor is -- they are the most thoughtful crew in any society -- seeking to learn from history and putting out reasoned societal programs for us all to live with.
conservatives did better than anyone else with a more liberal than reactionary crew in charge -- they just want to narrow the field of the politically and economically powerful in this country.
i could go on -- but it's not black and white -- like liberal hawks and liberal pacifists -- we are on the same page societally -- but polar opposites when it comes to the pentagom.

[Q]

26. Purged? You're kidding, right?

I'm surprised that a Democrat would even suggest such a thing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. I Asked A Question...

If you read my posts in this thread you would know I oppose a purge....


If I ask somebody if they favor euthanasia am I suggesting they off granny?

[Q]

68. If you opposed a purge, you shouldn't have used that word...

...but I understand what you mean. But if you mean not voting for or supporting them in any way...then I'm in full agreement.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. I Oppose A Purge Big Time But I Didn't Want To Preclude People For Voting

For That Option....


It was akin to putting something on the ballot...

[tngledwebb]

27. Couldn't be done-

can't define em, can't purge em if you wanted to. The Dem platform should be LESS moderate. But the spineless Dem pols who keep quiet about stolen elections, who vote for unconstitutional Patriot Acts and illegal wars, should be purged asap. Zell Miller and the like would have been kicked out long ago by a healthy Democratic party.

[kentuck]

30. It's their failed ideas that need to be purged.....

and stop trying to force them down the throats of the rest of the Democrats.

[Zynx]

31. Self-described moderates are a plurality of the party.

If you want to lose elections from here to the end of time, go ahead.

[wyldwolf]

35. right. And since they are the plurality of the party, who...

...could possibly do the purging?

[Padraig18]

33. 'Purged'??? What the hell?

I thought we were the Democratic Party, not the CPSU under Stalin...

:wtf:

[Zynx]

39. Some here on the DU demand purity.

They want that pure 20% so they can make their statement. They're a bunch of fucking morons.

[Padraig18]

40. No shit.

The Repubs aren't the only party with ideological zealots.

[Zynx]

41. We need to be a big tent with a potential vote of up to 60%.

Our current potential vote is no higher than 52%.

[Padraig18]

43. Exactly.

'Purging' is the exact OPPOSITE of what we need to be doing, as a party.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. I Never Suggested A Purge...

I merely asked a question...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. I Asked The Question...

Even a cursory reading of my posts and post in this thread demonstrate I oppose a purge...

[Padraig18]

56. And even a cursory reading of my response...

... will indicate clearly what I think of the idea. BTW, nowhere did I suggest that you did favor a purge.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. Thank You....

[JohnKleeb]

62. Yeah I know but many people want purging

Sick eh?

[ulysses]

36. of course not. n/t

[kentuck]

38. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.....

And it doesn't have to be the largest link or the smallest link...

[robbedvoter]

42. yes! And obligated to wear stars! And beaten up by pure democrats

such as you....Their kids too....
Thank you DSB for reminding me with every post of yours of why leaving this sorry party gave me back my self-respect.
P.S If I were you, I'd change my name to Pure-Blood Democrat.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. You Follow Me Around From Thread To Thread

and make your little ad hominem attacks on me ....


If you can show where I ever demanded ideological purity I'll buy you a clue....


Tenderly,


Brian

[Harlan James]

44. How About We Purge The Knuckleheads?

You know, those daft enough to want to divide the party into distinct ideological categories and then pit them against each other.

Knuckle Logic: We didn't beat the Republicans, so let's just beat ourselves!

[mattclearing]

48. I agree wholeheartedly.

It's not moderates I'm after. It's people that say and do stupid things, and that sell us out to the crazy people on the other side.

We need to stop the madness. I'd rather be called an obstructionist than facilitate crazy people who want to hurt us.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. To Those Of You Who Are Suggesting I Suggested A Purge

I respectfully request you read my posts in this thread...


If I supported a purge I would have said so and would have entitled my poll "Moderates Should Be Purged From The Democratic Party-Do You Agree?"


Peace

DSB

[Cheswick2.0]

54. not moderates.........corporatists, appeasers and sell outs

you can be a moderate and be none of those things.

[mandyky]

57. Noone should purged, marginalized, or made fun of

I think the DLC is full of crap, but I don't want them to leave the party, I want them to realize they don't always have the final say, esp when we've been following their way and falling short. Michael Moore is more independent than Democrat, he was a Nader supporter in 2000, I think. But we don't need to insult him either.

Zell Miller is a special case, hell we could even stand letting him stay in the party. His behavior on Hardball, challenging Chris Matthews to a duel, shows what kind of person he is. Hopefully, everyone knows Dems don't behave that way.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. Zell Is Sui Generis...

He purged himself by endorsing Bush...

Even a party that embraces diversity doesn't have to embrace a traitor.....

[mandyky]

64. I heard he actually changed parties and plans

on a career in lobbying. Yes, he purged himself.

I only mnetioned him because he'd been mentioned earlier.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. Wow...

He said he would never change...


He loses his novelty if he changes...


He now becomes another neocon...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. It's the "moderates" that have been doing the purging.

All we have to do is look at the last 22 years to see how effective they've been in marginalizing the left.

How often do you see a Democratic politician claiming to be a Liberal? The DLC has made it a dirty word.

[Rowdyboy]

66. Liberal was a "dirty word" 20 years before the DLC was even formed

Race riots in America's major cities in the 1960's, fights over integration, and anti-Viet Nam protests all helped make liberal a dirty word.

Misrepresentations that began in the 1960's left liberals perceived as pro-criminal and anti-victim, anti-military, and anti-religion. Then in 1972, the media christened McGovern's campaign policy as the 3 "A's": "Acid, Amnesty and Abortion"...Following his slaughter, "liberal became a dirty, dirty word.

You can blame the DLC for anything you want-but they had nothing to do with transforming the word liberal.

[RafterMan]

67. Wasn't it even before that?

During this election season, many people posted JFK's eloquent defense of liberalism ( http://www.cjnetworks.com/~cubsfan/whatis.html ) from the 1960 campaign.

Clearly it shows that liberalism was under the same type of attack at that early date. But yes, the upheval of the 1960s doubtless added to the problem.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

76. True. But, the DLC made it a dirty word for Democrats.

They are the ones that decried the very things you point out and moved the party to the right. Ever since the advent of Clinton and the "New Democrats" they have been steadily trying to make the Democratic Party into a "moderate" entity pandering to the right. They use the word "liberal" in the same way that Rush Limbaugh does and have made it respectable for Democrats to move right and deny being liberals.

There have always been reactionaries in the country against liberals.
But, with the exception of the Dixiecrats (the ancestors of the DLC), "liberal" (or, the preferable "too liberal"), been such anathema among Democrats.

So, I DO blame them for transforming the word into something unacceptable for Democrats.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

79. I Consider Myself A Liberal Democrat

but by embracing that label folks some folks assign me to positions I don't hold.....

The word has been so corrupted that it has been ripped from it's historical moorings....


If JFK, HST, and RFK are liberals then I'm a liberal...

[Rowdyboy]

82. To call the Dixiecrats "ancestors of the DLC" is utter nonsense

The Dixiecrats evolved into the modern Republican party of the South. Trust me, I watched it occur since the election of 1964. Trent Lott was a Democrat before his first run for office in 1972, as were most of elected Republicans in the south.

You consider Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Edwards reactionaries and political heirs to Strom Thurmond, Lester Maddox, Ross Barnett and Orville Faubus? They are all DLC...Thats just ludicrous.

The DLC are moderate Democrats, many with corporate ties, who are a small but influential part of the party. So are blacks, gays, Hispanics, progressives, labor, anti-war activists and the education and artistic elite. They're all part of the Democratic coalition. Basically, we all either lose or win together.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

84. The DLC is the heir to the "Southern Stragegy".

Try to win back the south and the middle states by pandering to the right. In effect, getting the Dixiecrats that went to the Repugs back into the party fold by appealing to the same sentiments that fueled the "Southern Strategy". Just watered down a bit.

As for Clinton, Gore, Kerry and Edwards, being heirs to that notion, you bet. Remember Clinton's "Sistah Soulja" charade? The "Welfare Reform" scam? Who do you think that was aimed at? I don't believe that any of them are racists per se, but they sure pander to them.

[JohnKleeb]

63. Of course not

[Clarkie1]

69. I'm generally not into "purgings"; define "moderate" please

[DemocratSinceBirth]

72. Moderate Is In The Eyes Of The Beholder...

Conservatives are troubled by moderates as much as progressives are....

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

78. DLC "moderates" = homeless Republican "moderates".

They couldn't change the repugs into moderates so they're trying (successfully) to change the Democrats into what amounts to the country club/capitalist version of the Republican Party.

[AntiCoup2K4]

88. Well..... you're half right.

That's what the DLC used to be.

But now you have Will PNAC Marshall and Holy Joe Lieberman turning it into a fully operational branch of the neocon fascist movement.

Country club Republicans I can deal with - but preferably in their own party. Traitors who betray America in the name of greed and foreign interests, I simply will not tolerate.

[Kitsune]

70. Moderates, no.

Republicans, yes.

[Chicago Democrat]

73. Litmus Test: The war was a mistake in execution and we were sold a lie.

Liebermann out... Beinart Out... ANDREW SULLIVAN OUT! Thom Friedmann OUT!!!!!

[Bleacher Creature]

74. Absolutely -- we need to get rid of Democratic moderates like:

Arlen Specter, Olympia Snowe, Lincoln Chafee . . .

Oh wait, that's not us. Nevermind.

[zulchzulu]

75. Sure...why not...

Who's going to do it? Dean? I'd like to see the "speech".

What an incredibly STUPID idea.

[Cheswick2.0]

83. What does this thread have to do with Dean?

What is it with you haters?

[zulchzulu]

89. Perhaps...

This thread wreaks of the idea that "moderates" are "Bush-Lite", "warmongers" or whatever.

Perhaps you can answer this: Is a "moderate" within the Wellstone-hijacked quote "Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party"?

If not, then it would have everything to do with people who support Dean like he's some kind of rock star without imperfections. There is no "hate"...chill on the kneejerk childishness that Dean can't be brought under scrutiny like anyone else.

I like Dean, but don't necessarily think it would be in even his best interest to be DNC Chair...what about DFA? Do you think he could do his best job doing both?

[Romberry]

77. WTF is up with all these "purge polls"?

People, get a clue!

[IndianaGreen]

80. Purges are inherently authoritarian and undemocratic

so I must respond in the negative to your poll. Now, if you were to ask if prowar and pro-DOMA Democrats should get their butts kicked, then I am all for it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

81. I Don't Want Any Homophobes In My Party Either...

But as a philosophical question why is it o k to purge some people and not others?

[Zhade]

86. No. Of course, few are really suggesting that.

Urge the corporatist DLCers that take money from rightwing corporate bosses like the Koch Brothers, or from weapons contractors, to embrace their inner Republican and get out of the party they obviously don't belong in? Absolutely.

Demand that no rights be sacrificed for mythical political capital? Absolutely.

Disallow selling out people for corporate cash? Absolutely.

PURGE honest moderates who aren't doing any of these things, and merely have different beliefs about how to achieve common goals? Absolutely not.

I despise "New Democrat" DINOs who take election money from, say, NewsCorp or Big Pharma. I don't despise people like Wyldwolf, who are center-right (IMHO) but truly seem to be interested in what they believe is the best course to take, even as I vehemently disagree.

There are other DLCers here who can go fuck themselves, because unlike WW they are totally unwilling to have an honest discussion and only harass and insult others while laughably claiming they know what they're talking about. I'd love for these disruptors to be unmasked and purged from DU, yes.

But I don't want to purge true moderates. We need their voice as much as they need the voice of us on the *snort* "far left".

[rasputin1952]

91. I am locking this thread.

It has degenerated into a flamefest.