Americans are now OK with having the election rigged - where will it end?

[Doctor_J]

It's now pretty much beyond debate that the election was fixed, and that between BBV and roll purges and intimidation and deliberately long lines and so on that Bush again stole the election. And the outrage is almost non-existant, and certainly inaudible, thanks to the MSM.

My question to you is, what do you think will get the people aroused enough to do something? I mean something besides us DUers complaining to each other?

Over the last four years, we have accepted, with almost no resistence,

1. The theft of election 2000
2. LIHOP
3. The PATRIOT act
4. Anthrax attack
5. A (as of now) 200 billion dollar illegal invasion of Iraq
6. Treason committed by Scooter Libby or someone else of his stature
7. The theft of elections in 2002
8. Enron
9. The WH approving torture of prisoners
10. The theft of elections in 2004

and much more. What will be the thing that actually gets us to act, and what will that act be?

[jean]

1. the majority of people haven't heard about election fraud or vote rigging

The average person just doesn't have a clue. Hopefully this will change on Monday.

[rurallib]

10. Guess who controls the media?

Good sermon on fascism and relevance to today:
http://www.uua.org/news/2004/voting/sermon_loehr.html

[Rockerdem]

18. Are today's voters rallies anywhere on TV? -nt

-nt

[mattclearing]

2. Someone needs to send out the signal.

Screw them, we're going home.

As a symbolic gesture, maybe the entire Democratic congressional delegation not showing up for the first day on the job next year would get people's attention.

I think we need to stop facilitating their madness. My post here in GD: P, which hasn't garnered a response yet, explains my reasoning.

[genius]

23. If you look at old polls (pre-election) some of us predicted this

We were being called negative but a number of predicted he would still and no one would care. I even recall this expected likelihood winning at least one poll by a landslide.

[WithStamina]

3. Excuse my ignorance...

What's LIHOP?
What's going on this Monday?

[Doctor_J]

16. LIHOP

= Let It Happen On Purpose (9/11). The fact that * was warned on 8/6/01 that we were going to be attacked, and chose to do nothing except go on vacation, has convinced many of us that he allowed 3,000 Americans ot be slaughtered to distract the public from his disastrous first 8 months in office. This theory is further validated by the fact that Bush's entire "re-"election campaign was an endless stream of videos of the carnage that he let happen.

I don't know what's going on this Monday.

[proud_Kucitizen]

19. What's happening Monday

I think they are talking about the forum by Representative Conyers happening at City Hall in Columbus and the demonstrations to take place at the State House to protest the electors voting just as the recount is starting.

You can go here www.IndependentMediaSource.com to send a letter to all of the mainstream media about covering this event.

[bush_is_wacko]

4. People are already acting!

There are protests everywhere! Spending is down everywhere! But people are also SCARED, because they don't see the media coverage and don't realize how large the numbers are if combined across the nation and the world. Some aren't showing up to protests for fear of reprisals. In Colorado, for years, the police actually go around and write down license plate #'s at protests! People can't believe it has gotten THIS bad in THIS country! Did you see ABC nightly news ran a story about Americans leaving the country and Canada having thousands of hits on their immigration web-site. Some Canadian immigration lawyer is even holding seminars on immigration to Canada. Many of us are thinking we should either move our fight outside the borders of this country or give up entirely!

[heidler1]

8. * does not seem to be aware of what he is doing.

For now the fear of a radical change in Social Security and other radical changes by the repugs could unfavorably impact Christmas spending. This would put the shoe on the other foot in regard to who's scared of the way it's all going.

[Doctor_J]

13. They don't seem to care about his policies

at all. The country is already bankrupt, at war, riddled with corporate and governmental corruption, and controlled by an ultra-right wing media. And still at least 50 million or so voted to continue the policies that got us to this point. So I don't think they care if they can shop or not, as long as they're "safe" and there is a "Christian" man in the WH.

[shanti]

24. oh, he's all too aware

read the PNAC.

[Doctor_J]

17. That's what we're doing

I am looking for work in Canada, both so my kids will have a place to go when the draft comes, and so I can spend my last 25 years or so in a country where they real elections, health care, clean water, and decent media.

[bush_is_wacko]

25. I'm close

but, I hate to say it! I still hold out hope for this country! Maybe the fact that I am a descendant of one of the original framers of the constitution, I don't know. I just want in my gut to believe there are still American patriots you know?

[The Flaming Red Head]

5. A societal purge similar to the McCarthy era (guise of homeland defense)

Where else could it go?

[Doctor_J]

14. This is probably close to correct -

black lists McCarthyistic show hearings - a revival of the HUAC.

[CrispyQ]

6. Most people will not wake up until . . .

they can no longer afford to shop. When they can no longer get their daily fix of 'new stuff', then & only then, will they (possibly) wake up & (hopefully) educate themselves. It will be a harsh reality for them to realize that while they were mindlessly doing what they were told to do, they were actually part of the problem all along.

[Pithy Cherub]

7. Next week will be a watershed week!

Americans in general have no idea about what has happened. The msm has decided that Scott Peterson is president, Michael Jackson handles Foreign Policy, the news channels exist only to carry commercials everything else is annoying filler and the latest plot twists on the reality shows are high culture...

We have to be relentless in incommunicating the message - over and over and over...it's hard work! :)

[Doctor_J]

15. Sure it will...

Bob "The Traitor" Novak has already declared that it's OK that the election was a hoax, because it was crucial for the nation to get * into office.

Face it. If the sheeple were not upset by Enron, by being lied into an invasion that's cost more than 100,000 lives, and by a senior administration official committing treason, I don't think they care that much about election fraud.

[Pithy Cherub]

20. It is all about tipping points.

You are absolutely right - the tipping point should have been reached years ago.

My snarkiness towards the msm is in the 'lite' news that substitutes for knowledge. Next week is put up or shut up time with the lawsuits that will be filed. The legal battle royales will be over the injunctive relief requests and the proposed remedies. Enter the concept of a story the US pravda press can tangentially comprehend - conflict. What it all means may be basically lost in the he said - she said stuff that generates interest from the people.

Even in the face of overwhelming odds and disappointing results, the least we can do is keep trying.:)

[s-cubed]

9. EVERYONE GET OUT THIS WEEKEND TO PROTEST

If we have 60,000 members, and there are 50 state capitals, plus DC, then
we ought to have 1100 participants at every state rally this weekend, if we get up off our butts. Get your friends and have a 60's protest party.

(yeah, I know, that ignores a few things like geographical distribution of DUers, not every state has a protest, some states are very large. It'ls what the physicists call a back of the envelope calculation: theoretically, with DUers alone, we could have a significant protests in a number of states.)

[ladjf]

11. It has occurred to me that perhaps many of the voters who

supported Bush were aware of the criminal acts but, for personal reasons, chose to vote for him anyway. Many segments of the American voting constituency are quite willing to sell out their Country in return for personal short term gains such as lucrative tax breaks, policies dear to the right-wing religionists and lastly, many approve of the fact that the Bush administration is clearly into global conquest. In other words, they are just as crooked as the administration and don't care.

[heidler1]

12. I agree. People are all selfish, but some take the long view.

I hope, sometimes, that what is often called enlightened selfishness sways the public view, but you can get pretty tired of waiting to see it happen. Especially with someone like * pulling the strings.

[ladjf]

22. Yes, it is tiring to always be waiting for Nature to correct

inefficiencies. In the "long view" the policies of the Bush administration cannot succeed. However, we may all have died of old age before the natural laws kick it. So, the question is what could be done by reasonable people to facilitate the natural fall of the current regime?

Throughout the history of life on Earth, species have succeeded or failed based on their responses to the context in which they lived.
There are no weak, strong, good or bad, simple those that have thrived or died out depending on how they matched up with the challenges.

Bearing that concept in mind, it is my opinion that among the myriads of related contextual elements, it is the basic fear factor that may be dominating the political scene. For historical reasons, people are subject to fanatical fear. For years, political and religious leaders have honed their skills in fanning the flames of those natural tendencies. In short, the American people have been driven the the brink of desperation, capped off the the 9-11 attacks, followed by the relentless barrage of disingenuous followups by the administration, particularly with the cooperation of their subsidiary corporations, the media.

The outcome of such a situation if panic is that people who normally would have thought things out rationally, are now operating at the most basic level of psychic response, an involuntary, "knee jerk" reaction. The higher parts of the brain are being bypassed.

If there is any hope to lead out of this quagmire of unnecessary nightmare of fear, it would be to try to reach people with information about real dangers. At the individual level, the odds of any of us being physically harmed by terrorist attacks are extremely low. If three planes were hijacked daily and one flew on the airlines daily, the odds would be around 1-6000 of being killed that day. ( I calculated that based on public records of how many people flew on airlines daily in the US.)

The ironic thing is that Bush and his boys have raved up the fear of terrorist attacks, talking about how they are making "amurica" more secure. Meanwhile, they have done everything possible to make America more dangerous. They have motivated our enemies to fear and despise us. The real danger to this country on a massive basis is that a Nation or group of Nations decide to attack us for whatever reason. Such an attack could be carried out, killing millions, not thousands and there would be nothing we could do about it.

In the long run, the only defense against this kind of scenario happening is to create a global political climate that would make it disadvantageous for any Nation to attack us. That might sound like hot air, and it might not even be possible. But, some chance for success is better than none.

There are over a dozen countries that have nuclear weapons and the number is growing. If we couldn't intercept three airliners, flying around the New England countryside for almost an hour, how are we going to stop a dozen simultaneously deck lanced , nuclear cruise missiles, fired from ten miles off shore from any point of our thousands of miles of coastline? From 10 or 20 miles out, the missiles would be on target in minutes. New York, Washington, Boston, Miami, Los Angeles, New Orleans,Seattle all gone at once. Everybody dead in all of those cities. Further, the land within hundreds of miles would be uninhabitable for 200,000 years.

Folks, it's time to stop play pitty-patty with the religious right wing, the group that is allowing the lunacy of the Republican administration to remain in power. The religionist must be recognized for what they are, psychopathic criminals, with apocalyptic visions of our future. They are bonifide nut cases and they are calling the shots for planet Earth. They are the tools of the corporate fascist, the real power brokers who are actually deciding what is going to happen.

[pretzel4gore]

21. the tails wagging the dog.....

robert frost wrote that 'freedom lies in being bold' and the bushbots are very bold, in part because they know they're doomed if the american people wake up.....thus the relentless boring blah blah news being soft peddled on tv....if we concentrate our energy on pointing out the media whoring (the public truly despise news media) and the money involved, we can alert even bush's supporters to the absurdity that is passing unnoticed (as listed)

[Nimrod]

26. Food.

Any society is three meals away from revolution. Old saying. We've been kept at the 2.5 mark for some time. The ruling class is going to have to get lazy and overconfident and steal just a little bit more and allow us to hit the magic three.

[Aunt Anti-bush]

27. The REAL problem is that they don't even know about it!

I have been talking about it to everyone at work and they all think I'm making this shit up. The media is failing us and I seriously think that is the biggest problem. No one even knows there are serious recount efforts going on. How can we expect them to 'see the light' if it isn't being shined in their direction?