What is the best "psychological warfare" to use against Repubs ??

[kentuck]

In my opinion, it should be "class warfare". Since they are already scared to death of terrorism, why not send them over the edge? :) Not only would it be good politics for Democrats, but it would constipate the Republicans. They would not know whether to shit or go blind.

First of all, we should talk up the minimum wage. But not just a .50-1.00 raise but a 3.00 increase in the minimum wage, which is about where it should be anyway. Also, we should talk about the right of every American to be able to go to the Dr. if he/she gets sick.

Then we could talk about balancing the budget and raising the taxes on those corporations that take their jobs overseas and expect taxbreaks for their treason. The tax could take the form of a tariff on all products they bring back into this country. They should make less producing their products overseas than they would make producing them in this country. It's not an income tax. It a "protective tariff" to protect the workers of this country.

Also, we should declare a crackdown on all corporate welfare. No longer will a middle-class worker pay a higher percentage of taxes than the corporations that get all the tax laws and tax breaks in their favor.

Finally, we should push for a national holiday for presidential elections and overall reform of our electoral system. They have stolen enough elections. People should not have to stand in lines for six hours because of Republican shenanigans of challenging the citizens of this country by accusing them of being illegal aliens intent on voting in the evil Democrats.

Any more thoughts on how to drive them crazy???

[SHRED]

1. The truth

:smoke:

[ClassWarrior]

2. You stole my answer!!!

:7

NGU.

[Mist]

17. That was my first response too

But then I thought: they know what the truth is because they spend all their energy 24/7 trying to keep the rest of us from knowing it.

[Griffy]

33. me too! nt

[zann725]

37. That's once of the reasons I liked Kerry so much...

He mentioned so often the importance of '...speaking Truth to authority.'

[Us vs Them]

Speaking of class warfare...

I think we should just make them afraid of the poor people. Citizens in desperate financial situations seek desperate means to an end.

I really like that minimum wage push. I'd love to see rallies of underclass wage slaves take to the streets in protest, but - catch 22 - most of the ones I know can't afford to take that time off of work.

[ClassWarrior]

8. They're already afraid of the poor people. Why do you think...

...they so want to punish them for being poor??

NGU.

[cavanaghjam]

3. humor and good times

sarcasm, satire, big words, music, and dancing. It all makes them uncomfortable. They have no sense of humor, no vocabulary and no sense of rhythm. Drives them nuts to see people enjoying all that life has to offer.

[KT2000]

4. Start with deprogramming

I really think the principles of brainwashing have been used by the RW. Their media echo chamber, which is getting worse by the day, repeats the daily message that keeps people angry and gives them an enemy - us.

Your idea of class warfare sound like the place to start after some deprogramming has taken place. Until then, they will not listen.

[alcuno]

5. Here's how. Drive them crazy by always calling them all political hacks.

And say it in a derogatory manner. Many Republican seem to have this notion that there has been some sort of divine intervention making * president. Please! They are all a bunch of politicians and they work for us. When they don't do their jobs, throw them out and try someone else. They can all be replaced.

The problem is that we actually have citizens siding with the government against their fellow citizens; totally abdicating their responsibility.

[ClassWarrior]

9. I like to say that abortion is too important a matter to leave...

...in the hands of scheming politicians. Drives 'em nuts. :evilgrin:

NGU.

[mhr]

6. Framing - The George Lakoff Approach

Class Warfare = Class Equity = Class Fairness

Environmental Protection = Poison Free Communities

Public Education = Shared History = Shared Experience = Shared Values

Etc.

The point is to reframe the labels that have been created by the republicans in terms more palatable to most Americans.

[kodi]

18. "class warfare" lets the right frame the issue. use "economic democracy"

"Class warfare" is a term with a lot of baggage, and evokes violence. Use instead the term "economic democracy" since it defines the goal of the process and evokes the "holy word" democracy within the context of economics and brings the together the market and the government in partnership.

Classical political thought says that the purpose of government is to do justice for its citizens. Part of this obligation is to foster conditions in which wealth is produced. The obligation is not met by substituting the wealth-producer for the government.

The normal and proper aim of the corporate community is to make money for its managers and for the owners of business all the better if its members also contribute to the general prosperity. However, business acts on the prevailing business philosophy, which claims that corporate self-interest eventually produces the general interest. This comfortable belief rests on misinterpretation of the theory of market rationality proposed by Adam Smith.

He would have found the market primitivism of the current day unrecognizable. He saw the necessity for public intervention to create or sustain the public interest, and took for granted the existence of a government responsible to the community as a whole, providing the structure within which the economy functions.

Economic Democracy.

[mhr]

19. Yes - I Like It - Economic Democracy

In a debate we would hear:

"This is not about class warfare; it is about economic democracy!"

"Do you want a society that supports an economy?"

"Or, an economy that supports a society?"

[Nordic]

31. Yes! Who is this guy? Give us more!

this is absolutely key!

I'm gonna google this guy. Thanks for the tip and please post more!

[ailsagirl]

7. Yes, the truth

And we need to learn how to debate these guys because they have this
devious little system of rhetoric down wherein they do the following:

1) talk loudly
2) talk fast
3) interrupt frequently
4) use diversionary tactics-- they seize on some point that's
beside the important point and focus on it, thus managing
to sidestep the important issue

We need to learn how to

1) bring them back on topic, even if it means repeating over and
over, "You're sidestepping the issue"
2) anticipate and address any and all diversionary tactics they use
and call them on it
3) create a response to each of their tactic types by categorizing
and developing appropriate responses to each (same as #2, really)
4) be serene and unruffled as we debate with them

They're bullies and bullies can be dealt with effectively. But it
doesn't mean we have to abandon "the high road" in doing so.

It's a very deliberate, and dangerous, system they have set up. But
in recognizing and pinpointing where they "score points," we can top
them. Because the bottom line is, we tell the truth and they lie.

[ClassWarrior]

10. I like your style.

Have you been to DU's Frame The Debate forum?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=252

NGU.

[ailsagirl]

11. No, but I'll check it out... thanks

[janx]

12. Michael Kinsley is very good at that!

He's not on television too much anymore, but he was a real delight. He would make a poignant comment using few words and would sit back, amused, as the Repubs sputtered and stuttered and turned themselves blue in response.

He was a seemingly gentle but very tough debater.

[ailsagirl]

13. We need many, many more like him

[Old Mouse]

14. What a great topic

Complex issues need to be avoided. For example it takes too long to explain the effect the deficit has on the average American worker.

Class warfare is good. Right now the Republicans have a large uninformed demographic who vote against their own interests. We need to take the poor and middle class base away from the republican elite.

[BrainRants]

15. Rock & Roll.

Marilyn Manson drives them batshit crazy.

Disclosure: I'm not a Manson fan, but believe it is the genetic responsibility of every generation to piss off the previous one.

Is that evolution?

[Warren DeMontague]

16. One word: SEX. n/t

[kentuck]

20. You may have spoken the magic word....

:) That usually does the trick...

[Radical Activist]

21. Use the Bible to defeat their ideology

It drives them absolutely nuts. Just quote what Jesus really said about caring for the poor, loving others who are different than you, not judging others who do wrong, and those who wear religion on their sleeve to gain public favor. They foam at the mouth and can't deal with the fact that they follow a party that is in opposition to everything Jesus taught. It's too bad many Democrats are too afraid of the Bible to make those points. It's very effective psychological warfare.

Now, if you want to win swing voters economic populism is more effective. You can call it class warfare. But if you want to mess with Republicans minds, just start quoting the Bible to show how much it contradicts the conservative ideology.

[kentuck]

22. The Sermon on the Mount from St. Luke usually works very well..

:)

[Ms_Mary]

43. I argued that point too with the same guy who said Kerry would ban

all hunting/fishing. He seemed genuinely hurt that I refused to believe that Bush was a good, moral, Godly man.

[Cats Against Frist]

23. I am a liberal who turned into a libertarian.

You might not think you need me, but you do. I can quickly turn "small-government conservatives" and "free marketers" against this GOP. Like snap.

Most people in the GOP are dumb. They don't know the following three things:

1. The GOP is not for the free market.
2. The GOP is not for small government.
3. Rush, Hannity, Coulter, et. al., get their marching orders from a right-wing, ivory tower, intellectual elite that think that the GOP constituency is so dumb (are they right, or are they right?) that they should be controlled through lies and propaganda.

I also have extensive knowledge of the conservative totalitarian brain and the ways that the GOP uses logical fallacy to do their "re-education."

The best psychological warfare would be to pretend you're a libertarian, and make them feel like Josef Stalin for supporting the GOP. It works. And, it's true.

[rasputin1952]

24. This has been covered rather weell in here, lot's of good ideas...

:)

I am in Nebraska, so for those of you who think you might have a difficult time talking to R's, just think of how I feel...:)

To be honest, I have had remakable success in getting tmany of them to think; I use the truth, nothing more, nothing less. I never "argue" with them , I just show them that what the administration is doing will harm them, as well as the rest of the nation. I am calm, and cool when I taklk t them, and they have very few points they actually bring up, the GOP platform is not a complicated one.

I do have somne hints athough...inevitably two things come up with R's, abortion and guns. I tell them what I think about their arguments about abortion, but I ALWAYS bring up RU-486. It removes their entire argument, as since there is no viable 'fetus' or 'life' to speak of, they have no argument. The only thing they can then discuss, is sex. What goes on in someone's bedroom is none of my business, and it is none of theirs. I always win.

Guns...I own guns, and I am a Progressive. I do not want to take any law abiding citizens guns away. But I don't think it is a good idea for people to posess M-2 .50 caliber MG's either. Nor do I think they should have GAU-30's spitting out 3000+ rounds of depleted uranium either. I ask them if they've ever actually seen a ploice vehile shot to pieces by an AK-47 or BAR that has run on Full Auto. They get the picture of a police officer kneeling behind a cruiser as it is demolished by an idiot, and the officer has a 9mm Auto pistol. They get the picture when you paint it out to them.

Ask them what they got back from all the 'tax cuts'. If they earned less that $95,000, their taxes actually went up. Bring up local taxes that have been increased and services like police, fire and roadwork that has declined because Federal money is no longer available. Remind them that their schools and libraries deopend on tax money, as well as ambulance and other emergency services. All of these have suffered because of funding problems brought on by bush's insane fiscal policies.

Are they any safer than before 9-11...NO.

Dismantle their arguments with the truth. Do not expect dramatic changes, you would not change immediatley because of one argument. Plant seeds, nurture them as you meet these people again. Be FRIENDLY!

I have had success, 22 have re-registered as Independents, and 2 have gone Dem. It takes time, and we have less than 2 years to help educate people to overturn Congress...:)

[Stinky The Clown]

25. Your rational, targeted gun argument .......

I saw recently on one of the "old news" cable channels (History, TLC, Discovery, dunno which for sure) the complete story of that shoot out a few years ago where those two California bank robbers kept an entire phalanx of cops at bay for a long time. The perps had a lot of body armor and simply stood in the open with automatic weapons shooting cop after cop after cop. All the while, they were like superman with bullets bouncing off them.

THAT story would fit perfectly as a "gun-state" parable that would go right along with your well made argument. (Its not about gun control, its about protecting our first responders. - GREAT reframing!)

[Guaranteed]

26. Just straight derision.

We need to shame them.

[More Than A Feeling]

27. embrace the liberal stereotype

eat a lot of granola, drink a lot of latte's, prominently display the New York Times, wear birkenstocks, drive a volvo. Wash, rinse and repeat

[Guaranteed]

30. No way. I hope you're being sarcastic.

We have to shed that PC hippie shit or we're done.

[More Than A Feeling]

32. Who said anything about being a hippie or PC?

just reading the New York times or eating granola, or any of those other things does not make one either one of those things.

Its about showing the right wing that we are tired of being scared of their stupid pointless labels.

[Guaranteed]

34. My thing is that I feel like we can't be sweating the small stuff...

which means PETA, political correctness (in the nitpicky sense) and G.E. foods are out. "Racist" is a term I believe we should be using often, though.

And also we need to be more reality-based- not like the DLC "reality," which is far FROM it- but we need to be hard on terrorism, AND not be invading countries that don't threaten us. I guess a good way of putting it would be "focused on the big issues at hand," As opposed to focusing on oppressing gays.

Civil rights and liberties needs to also be at the forefront of our fight. They define America.

[More Than A Feeling]

35. I think we need to do more with homeland security and arms control

Like in the books Nuclear Terrorism by Graham Allison and America the Vulnerable by Stephen Flynn.

I'll bet you anything that Bush does not want to talk about what he hasn't done to secure nukes and actually protect our shipping and borders. It would really scare the crap out of people if they knew how little has been done on this.

Then the American people might feel betrayed, that Bush has been pawning them off with stupid fears, rather than talking about the truly scary stuff.

[Guaranteed]

36. Absolutely.

I can't think of anything bigger, in fact.

[Warren DeMontague]

45. I must have missed the memo

about "hippie" being an insult.

Next thing you know, someone will try to tell me to cut my hair.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. As a hippie, please allow me to respectfully say screw you.

I don't tell you how to be, mr. takes-his-nick-from-a-Ken-Kesey (speaking of "hippies")-book, please extend the same damn courtesy to me.

Am I "PC"? Fuck if I know. I don't eat most kinds of meat anymore, but I also don't preach at people about it. Frankly, I used to love a nice piece of prime rib-- but my cholesterol used to top out around 300 and now it's at 140. 'Nuff said.

I LIKE Lattes. They're good. Shit, sometimes when I'm feeling extra zany, I have soy in them. Call the police! Hell, I also like green tea, which is apparently another badge of coastal snobbery and "elitism".. (Anyone who genuinely thinks I'm part of some "elite" should look at my bank account)

I never understood what the problem was with Volvos. God forbid we should be driving sensible cars, or ones with decent mileage, as opposed to huge oversized Ford Penis Substitute trucks with fifteen foot tall mag tires. Uhhh huh.

I don't know from birkenstocks (Although for years I did wear converse Chuck Taylors, until I realized that they didn't provide any ankle support) but I did attend somewhere around 100 Grateful Dead shows while Jerry was still alive.

I'm certainly not a subscriber to what I consider the more onerous parts of PC thought-police-ism. I'm across the board opposed to censorship, and I think that what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes is their own business; and that applies whether we're talking about steamy gay sex or watching Sorority Gangbang #12 on the DVD player.

I also don't believe in anything resembling the Judeo-Christian "God", and I'm sure as hell not going to shut up about that fact or stop standing up for the principle of Separation of Church and State. I respect everyone's right to their beliefs; what I don't respect is attempts to legislate religion or shoehorn it into Secular, collective government.

Lastly, I know it's considered "hip" in some circles to bash Hippies. The South Park crowd, among others, seems to have universally accepted the word "hippie" as invective or insult. (Of course, Parker and Stone think it's hysterically funny to blow up Janeane Garafolo, so I think we know where they sit) What this neglects to acknowledge is the massive contributions made by people in the 60s- many of them "hippies"- to the progressive and rights movements that we still struggle to advance today. In fact, it's no coincidence that the corporate-owned media, along with the GOP, has worked overtime for years to demonize the 60s, because the communitarian, anti-consumerist, and liberation ethos which underlied many of the popular movements of the 60s posed such a threat, in their minds.

Think about that the time you think you're being hip, by bitching about "hippie bullshit".

[NAO]

28. Moral Values War (Teaching of Jesus vs. teachings of GOP)

I think if someone were to talk about the teachings of Jesus Christ, as recorded in the Gospels, they would be mortified.

Think about it - The teaching of Jesus run contrary - very contrary - to the GOP core positions.

GOP - align with religious leaders
Jesus - High Priests are hypocrites, vipers.

GOP - strong military, strong defense
Jesus - if someone strikes you, turn the other cheek

GOP - ownership society, praise wealth as achievement, cut programs for poor
Jesus - condemned rich people, called for feeding the hungry, helping those in need

GOP - ban, oppress "sinners"
Jesus - always socialized with publicans (publicans were TAX COLLECTORS, did you get that Grover Norquist) and sinners

How did * manage to read the Bible and not grasp these very basic points? I have not read the Bible much as an adult (for 20 years), yet I remember these things from childhood Sunday School lessons.

[kentuck]

41. I think there is potential in this argument...

The "Christians" in the Democratic Party should be able to make the argument very well. he rest of us should keep our distance between church and state, in my opinion.

[Nordic]

29. "End Corporate Welfare As We Know It"

would be a good place to start.

Starting a campaign, complete with TV commercials running constantly, pointing out how our tax dollars are simply handed, by our government, to major corporations.

That and the balanced budget thing.

Oh, and the "made in America" thing.

All our shit is made in CHINA? China could shut down the American economy in ONE DAY? Yes, China could shut down every single WalMart in ONE DAY.

China! A Communist country, where, my fundie stepmom once told me, they EAT ABORTED FETUSES. (I am not making this up, she actually said this once)

[GarySeven]

38. Wave the flag and praise Jesus

The flag as the symbol of liberalism which has inspired the world and Jesus as the prototypical liberal.

[bobweaver]

39. Conservatives are (secretly) insecure and lonely people who drink heavily

Everyone that I have known well who was a conservative has had somewhat of a drinking problem, to some degree or other. The conservative ideology matches perfectly with the loner personality - everything is "I me mine" and the concept of sharing or togetherness is completely alien. They develop few meaningful relationships, particularly with the opposite sex but also few or no meaningful friendships with the same sex - only business-type relationships. There is a deep-rooted pain within these people that causes them grab whatever they can get for themselves, and this fits in perfectly with the conservative ideology, so they are attracted to that ideology. Figure out what the source of the person's pain is, and twist it to make it hurt more. I did this accidentally with a friend I have known for 13 years who is fairly conservative. He was going on and on about all the supposed "dangers" in the world and I casually said, "it's all in your head" and six months later he brought that up again and said, "You told me once it's all in my head, thanks a lot, that was really f*ing nice of you" and it was obvious it had hit home with him. This is just one example. Find out what the person's sore spot is, and rub salt in it. It's different for each person but it usually involves pain, paranoia, fear or inability to get along with people.

[GingerSnaps]

40. I know how Kentuck

Take the psychotics that come to different websites and pick a fight. The best way to deal with them is to agree with them. If someone is saying something negative just agree with them and get that gazed look in your eye. Also, try to get a bit of spit running out of the crack of your mouth like you have been brain washed. :D

To be honest your guess is as good as mine :hug:

[Ms_Mary]

42. I tried asking "Why?" a lot before the election

and when they would answer, I'd counter with the truth. You'd be amazed at how many times I got a "Well, I haven't watched the news or anything." That would be the end of the discussion most of the time. Though I did have one guy insist that Kerry was going to ban hunting and fishing and he could bring me the article to prove it. I said I'd love to read it because it contradicted everything I'd read. He never brought it to me.