Age of New Green Party members and other defectors from the Dem Party

[imenja]

Age of Defectors from the Democratic Party


I'd like to know the age of people who have decided now, in the aftermath of the 2004 election, to leave the Democratic Party in favor of the Greens, Libertarians, or some other party.
Why now and not in previous cycles? Why not under Bill Clinton? Why not in 2000? Or has your Democratic allegiance been temporary: you were, for example, Green in 2000, Dem in 2004, and now want to go back to the other party. Vote in the poll and note your reasons below. My question is why this year over previous years?

[imenja]

1. Please note your reasons in a post. n/t.

[Mojambo]

2. I've always had a loose alliance with the Democratic party

I feel entirely comfortable with my decision to formally join the Green party and I wish the (real) Democratic party nothing but the best. The DLC'ers...not so much.

I'm not bitter about it. It's just time for me to move on.

[nosmokes]

3. the democratic party doesn't exist anymore.

and i'm tired of watching 'em trying to out republican the GOP to pander to the middle for a few votes. i'll be happy to sitch back to being a democrat as soon as they're willing to embrace my liberal values and stand up for the disenfranchised - the minorities, the poor, organized labor, human rights, choice, and the environment. switching parties was not easy and not a move i took lightly. i worked for george mcgovern's campaign in '72 and since then i have cast exactly one vote for a republican (who was then indicted within months) and i have never missed an election. i feel like i'm deserting a friend in a time of need, but i don't know how else to get my message across. i'm a liberal, dammit, and there's nothing wrong with that. and mark my word, we will need the liberal/progressive voice and vision to drag us out of this morass that shrubco has gotten us into, or we'll be turning into a puritanical third world hell hole.

[imenja]

4. do you think it is less liberal now than under Clinton?

Some have referred to Clinton as a great Republican president. That's probably why the Right hated him so much: he took over many of their issues. Perhaps that contributed to their moving even farther to the Right--reactionary foreign policy, anti-abortion, so-called "moral values."

[Mojambo]

5. I always thought of Clinton as the ideal centrist

I respect him and think he's brilliant, but he was far from my ideal President.

[nosmokes]

13. less liberal than under clinton?

probably not, but it hasn't moved left any considerable distance either.

and while i'm no huge fan of clinton, i'll take him back in a hearbeat over what we got right now. at least compromise was in his vocabulary, perhaps too often, but the boob in the oval office now makes clinton's tenure look better and better.

[ally_sc]

23. i bet a lot of the sheeple

would take clinton back in a heart beat i know i would. i have thought about alligning myself with green but i keep dreaming i guess that things are going to get better with the democratic party. i would like to know when...

[sarahlee]

6. Repeater

Left once. Came back for Kucinich. Leaving again.

[hippiechick]

9. Same here ...

Left in 95 after Clinton pushed thru Tommy Thompson's horrible Welfare to Work scheme to appease the GOP.

Did volunteer work for the Greens in 96 and 2000.

Came back to the Dems when Howard Dean popped on the radar. Depending on what he decides to do, I may go back to my Green roots and get some local issues organizing going.



:hippie:

[not systems]

7. Most "mainstream" Dem's make me illl...

Lieberman and others like him who are constantly
put up as the face of the party.

I can not stand.

Even the ones I like frequently capitulate rather
than perform as an opposition.

The lack of fight on Kerry's part and not
opposing the continued escalation of the war.

Leaves me out.

Maybe if Dean or another reformer with a strong
message of opposition to Bush emerges otherwise
forget it appease the right on your dime not mine.

I will support other directions for political action.

[imenja]

8. Lieberman is by no means a mainstream Democrat

he sits on the far right of the party. That's why Republicans like him.

[lastliberalintexas]

30. Yes, he is

Lieberman isn't as far "right" as most people think he is, at least not according to the political spectrum as it exists today. Lieberman is a Middle East hawk, and so he seems to be very conservative. But he is also adamantly pro choice, against school sponsored prayer, pro-labor, etc. I don't have the time or patience to list his other left of center votes/positions, so you can check his actual voting record for yourself if you don't believe me.

But the fact that Lieberman is actually left of center underscores one of the biggest problems in the Dem party today. Lieberman should be a centrist, in the true sense of that word. The fact that probably 3/4ths of elected Dems actually fall to the right of him shows just how far out of step and right wing our party has become.

Which would also explain why so many people have considered leaving or have already left.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. 60. Been a Dem since '65. Finally, giving up on it.

Being a socialist, I've never really been comfortable in the party. But, with one exception, (in '68 I voted for Dr. Spock), I've always voted for the "lesser of two evils".

The left wing of the party has been marginalized by the rightwing under Clinton and the DLC to the point of irrelevance. The difference in voting Democrat or Republican has become virtually meaningless as the parties merge into one capitalist entity.

As Harry Truman said, "If you vote for a Republican(R) or a Republican(D), you still get a Republican."

I'm switching to the Greens and voting for candidates that I can support
without the aid of a noseclamp and Pepto-Bismol.

Besides, witnessing the suicide of the Democratic Party is better than participating in it.

[Walt Starr]

11. I've voted straight Democratic Tickets since 1982

'82 was the first election I could vote in.

I've never voted for a Republican or a third party candidate in all that time. I've been a loyal Democrat my entire life. I've sought office twice as the democratic nominee against an incumbent when nobody else would give opposition.

I am not leaving the Democratic Party. It left me.

[ElectroPrincess]

12. My reasons are similar to yours ...

And I'm getting real irritated when people call me a "defector" because I've devoted countless hours to my local democratic party.

At the run up to this election, I did my best to encourage the greens, left libertarians as well as the Kucinich reporters in the primaries to PLEASE come on board and join the team to get * out.

However, NOW I see the light. Kerry may have served honorably in combat and even more honorably for his country upon return, but IMHO the DLC's guidance has taken his "fighting spirit" away.

The loud voices of the conservative end of the Democratic party are, in essence, forcing me out.

I would love to return with zeal and volunteer time and money again when you have the insight to listen to what Paul Wellstone referred to as "The Democratic Wing of The Democratic Party."

But until then, please have the decency NOT to refer to good people such as myself and many others as "defectors" or "anarchists." The Democratic Party, at least as I see it - the foreseeable future has left it's base, i.e., the working and middle class PEOPLE.

[imenja]

20. Defector truly was not meant pejoratively

Can you suggest another short hand term besides "defector"? I intended no disrespect of your political position. I very much applaud your strong moral convictions.

[lukasahero]

35. "It left me"

I still haven't "defected" and may not in the long run but I am having a crisis of "faith" with the party for the same reason Walt notes here: "It left me."

I've always been left enough to be Green but have believed the best way to get the Dems to represent my values was by being one of them, voting for the candidates I believe in during the primaries and working to shape the agenda from within and the bottom up. I have given money, time and effort at every stage this election cycle - from local to national, from pre-primary to post-election.

And there's the final straw: I gave money post-election to the only parties that were out there fighting for my vote - the Greens (and the Libs, but I'm just not Libertarian material). They stood when the Dems rolled over. I really BELIEVED in John Kerry and the Democratic party would fight for me, for us. I feel betrayed.

I haven't given up just yet, and I will watch to see what they (Kerry and crew) do from here, but right now I am not inclined to fight for those who won't fight for me.

[catbert836]

14. I'm tired of the DLC pandering to the Corporatists

The Democratic Party dosn't exist anymore, its just the loyal opposition to the Republican Party.

[imenja]

16. I'm afraid it's not even that

They don't seem to have mustered the power to even operate as an opposition party. The Republicans, as the intelligence bill demonstrates, seem to be fulfilling that function for themselves.

[Kitsune]

15. The straw that broke the camel's back

was when Kerry refused to fight. Voting for him in the first place was hard enough, and I really feel like it was a complete waste at this point.

/22 in february

[tedzbear]

17. The Green Party platform perfectly represents my moral values.

Unlike the current platform of the Democrats.

[IndianaGreen]

37. Greens and Socialists support full equality for GLBTs

including marriage rights. They also oppose the war in Iraq, and want an immediate US withdrawal, and want the outright repeal of PATRIOT.

Greens and Socialists are also opposed to trade agreements such as NAFTA that pits workers in one country against the workers in another country in order to lower wages and ignore environmental and labor laws.

[debsianben]

18. Most Greens Not Dem Defectors

Keep in mind that a large chunk of people who voted for Nader, Greens or other left-wing alternatives were never Democrats in the first place, nor were an even larger chunk of card-carrying Greens.

When I turned 18 (1998), I didn't bother voting (in the Michigan Gubenatorial election). The ONLY reason I was inspired to register to vote in the first place in 2000 was the candidacy of Ralph Nader. If he hadn't run, I wouldn't have voted.

Since then, I've voted for exactly one (1) Dem, twice (in the primary and in the general), a "Kucitizen" who was running for Congress who I had known in the anti-war movement. While I disagree with them, I feel some kinship with those real progressives who think the Democratic Party can be reformed to represent jobs, peace and democracy instead of war and corporate power, but I have a hard time taking seriously the idea that the likes of John "Bush didn't send enough troops" Kerry are just more moderate members of the same team.

As far as I'm concerned, Kerry and the like are the enemy--despite their less awful stands on many social issues as compared to the repukes, these guys are basically pro-war, pro-"free trade," wholly owned subsidiaries of corporate America.

When people argue, e.g., that Kerry voted for the IWR "as a tool of diplomacy," I realize we're just operating from a radically different worldview. To my mind, a resolution threatening a sovereign country that has never attacked us or threatned to attack us with invasion could never under any circumstances be a legitimate tool of diplomacy--it's more like a tool of international terrorism. I could never imagine voting for some one who wants to conduct "diplomacy" by threatening innocent, defenseless third world nations with cluster bombing, invasion and occupation. I really can't see how I could ever be on the same "side" as them.

[imenja]

19. Now is the time to change the party

That was my theory, that most Green party members or recent "defectors" (sorry, that wasn't meant pejoratively) would be quite young. I felt the same way when I was younger, even not so young. I voted for Nader in 1996 and 2000. But I never imagined a Republican could be as damaging to our nation as George Bush is. He knocked some sense in my head, and I'm determined to work within the Democratic party. Since serving as a delegate for Jesse Jackson in 1984 (yes, I'm getting old), Dean and then Kerry were the first campaigns I'd worked on.
I certainly understand your frustrations with the Democrats and I respect them. I do believe, however, that we now have the opportunity to turn the party in a more progressive agenda with economic justice and human rights as it's core principles. The party is at a cross roads now, and I believe this is THE most important moment for progressives to become involved because you just may have an impact.

Note: the poll above shows I was wrong on the average age of those leaving the Democratic party. Most, as you can see, are in the 41-50 range.

[Cheswick2.0]

24. I agree with you

I have never been anything but a democrat and have little patience with the leave the party folks. I am sure it doesn't hit you quite the same way and I am not suggesting you feel as I do about third parties.
However I think this is the time to remake the democratic party and leaving it is going to change nothing. It will be much easier to reform the democratic party than start from the ground up with a new party.

[debsianben]

25. I Doubt It

As if a pro-Iraq-war, anti-Kyoto, anti-ICC, pro-NAFTA, pro-Patriot Act candidate like Kerry wasn't bad enough, from all indications, the mainstream of the Democratic Party leadership will be lurching to the right to pander to those alleged "moral values" voters in 2006 and 2008. Every time these people lose an election to the GOP, they conclude that its because they haven't done a good enough job of blurring the line between the two parties.

I like Medea Benjamin's comments on the whole issue: http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041220&c=14&s=forum

[welshTerrier2]

28. 54 here ...

i don't see any basis to assume those leaving or thinking of leaving the party fit neatly into an age demographic ... frustrations are very high with the party right now and i see them doing everything they can to make things worse ...

i'd like to believe progressives can move the party in a new direction ... and the "you'll never know til you try" arguments are all valid ...

but still, there's a fine line to be walked between pouring more of your heart into a party that frankly doesn't seem to want its left wing, and joining a party, that while perhaps not nationally viable, could begin to make inroads on the state and local levels ...

my crystal ball is not very clear these days ...

[Disturbed]

21. Registered Green

I was Dem for many years until I read the Green Party Platform last year. Their principles are real close to mine so I switched. I am not a pro Nadar although I agree with his views regarding Corp. Amerika. The Dem Party has abandoned it's roots in my view. I vote Green on all local elections and for Congress.I would still vote for a Dem for Pres. if that candidate came close to views that I agree with at least 60% but I don't feel a Dem, other than one from the South will have a chance to win for another three or four elections.

[ulysses]

22. no decision yet

and I'll probably never jump ship entirely (hey, we got Cynthia back this year), but if I did decide to leave the party at this point, it would be after having voted Green in 1996 and 2000.

[welshTerrier2]

26. thinking seriously of leaving but still a dem ...

Kerry was not my choice in the primaries but i fought hard for him once he was the nominee ... i was a die hard ABB ...

at this point, I have grave doubts whether I can remain in the party ... i'm sitting on the sidelines right now watching Dean's DFA and Kucinich's PDA ... i'm also following the selection of the new DNC chair ...

frankly, i've about had it with the party ... where's the outrage over Iraq ... do elected Democrats consider it unpatriotic to speak out against the madness? how many more must die? how much more must be spent? what party represents my views that the Iraq invasion is insane and immoral and threatens both global peace and our security within the U.S.?

and what party is willing to start educating Americans about the endless corruptions of our democracy? where do I turn to find representatives who understand that our government was put up for sale and sold to the highest bidders? what party represents my views that ALL federal policies are lobbied for and implemented on behalf of big business?

are the Democrats better than the republicans? of course they are ... much better ... but they have spent the last 30 years dancing around the truth rather than fighting the battle that must be fought ... I hate to leave; i really do ... but i just see little hope that the Democratic party "gets it" ...

[morgan2]

27. 23 never considered myself a democrat

switched from indipendent registration to dem to vote for Kucinich in the primaries, will probably switch to Green in the future.

[goodhue]

29. Most folks I know moved the other direction this year.

Back to the Dems after being wayward in late 90s. I was born in 69.

[depakid]

31. My reasons are simple- though I left in 96

Clinton and the "new" Democrats sold us out one too many times.

While I may vote for their candidates, I can no longer in good conscience be a member of the party.

Add to that the fact that the Green's long term agenda better reflects my values and relies on more sensible applications of science and economics.

[mandyky]

32. I am not "defecting" unless the DLC gets their way

I am not sure I'm leaving the party, but I'm not sure I'll be voting Dem next cycle. I plan on supporting progressive candidates when and where I can.

The question about why now is a good one. I think the more I realize what was done in the primaries to sandbag Howard Dean by "my own" party has a lot to do with it. And how spineless our Congressional Leagership seems at times. I did not vote for Gore in 2000.

My first vote was in 1976 for Carter. I've always been more Independent than anything but in NY you have to be registered Dem to vote in the primaries, etc.

[Skidmore]

33. You've said it best. This is exactly the way I feel. nt

[formernaderite]

34. I'm remaining a registered dem because of local issues..

...but as you can recongize by my moniker...I've swung both ways. In 2000 I voted Nader, albeit in a blue safe state. In 2004 I was a Deaniac, who pulled the lever for Kerry. If Dean is ignored as a viable leader of the DNC, I will once again leave the democrats in the voting booth on national issues and in some local races.

It's called tough love.

[sockpuppet]

36. I can't vote because I wasn't registered when the poll started.

But I'm feeling greener by the minute. I think that the Green party is the future of the progressive movement. I am greatly heartened by the gains they have made in Europe.

[yardwork]

38. This is the first time I've considered joining another party

I've always agreed with the Green platform, but felt it was better to fight within the Democratic Party. In the aftermath of the vote debacle in Ohio I'm not so sure. I'm very, very disappointed in the lack of Democratic leadership.

I'm disappointed to see Democratic officials call for appeasement by moving the party's positions to the right, instead of recognizing and fighting the real problem - vote-fixing.

If the Greens will fight for a fair vote, I'll join them. I'm in my mid-40s.

[Harlan James]

39. Chump

Anyone helping to divide the anti-fascist vote in this country is a chump.

I've no respect for "greens," Nader, and the rest of the bloviant more-moral-than-thou crowd. The stakes are too high for such stupidity.

Shut up and leave already. Or better yet, fuck off.

[debsianben]

40. Even Cobb?

Does it bother you, when you take this position, that there WOULD BE NO RECOUNT IN OHIO IF NOT FOR THE GREEN PARTY? If you'll recall, the Green candidate David Cobb took the initiative to ask for the recount and (although he co-sponsored it with Badnarik) his side raised most of the initial money. Sure, the Dems have finally joined up (better late then never), but without the Greens, there'd be no recount. The challenge to the voter fraud in Ohio was, at least initially, a Green-led effort.

[Harlan James]

41. The Ohio Recount Really Doesn't Mean All That Much

And honestly, I'm beginning to believe we'd have been better off without it.

The only way this thing is going to turn around is if some truly courageous and conscience-stricken soul emerges from the bowels of Diebold or some such vile place with an arm full of tapes and computer chips that prove beyond a doubt that the election was fixed. And the odds of such a smoking gun miraculously appearing at this late a date don't appear so hot to me.

The numbers that are being recounted are post-fix. This recount is the equivalent of going back into the barn to search for a horse that left a long time ago. This is an after the fact exercise that will only appear to prove the GOP contention that those complaining about the Ohio election result are foolishly wasting both the taxpayers' dough and the time of those who have to do the actual counting.

Dig it, daddy-o. They're recounting numbers that have already been screwed with. A recount does nothing to change that. In the end this exercise will only serve to give credibility to the cause of those who could very well have fixed the presidential election of 2004.

[debsianben]

44. Yeah...

I agree with a lot of that, but you've got to admit that the recouters' efforts have at least drawn a lot of national attention to the fraud, intimidation and "irregularities" in Ohio and elsewhere.

[Sugarbleus]

42. Lifetime Dem here...........not sure where to go yet.

If the party can clean up it's act; get real about the needs of the people of this country and serve up a candidate that speaks to all of us, then I will stay here. If not, I'm off to some other unknown political camp. I can't take it anymore and don't have many years left to "finesse, nuance, hope and dream" over the face of the party.

Either get with the program or get outta my face...LOL (little Zell Miller there)

[Forkboy]

43. huh...I thought Greens were all birkenstock wearing college kids...

having their parents pay for everything while they got high.

At least,that's what I heard on DU :shrug:

[KoKo]

45. If they don't clean up this Election Fraud, Corporate Fraud and Lies about

why we are invading countries in the next year...I'm out of the Dem Party. I'm giving the "Progressives" a chance but they aren't friendly.

I'll go Green. I'm sick of this. AND, I got involved and am a Dem Precinct Vice President...all because of "Selection 2000." I've been a Dem all my life and they never cared about me in all the places I lived and voted Democratic and gave money to candidates I was never on the list of "high donors" so I didn't count. Now that I'm a Precinct VP and have given more money, I get invites...but they didn't want to know me before or reach out to me.. They aren't the party I admired. They lost that way back with spinelessness. I don't need them...let the Insiders run it to hell into the ground and out of existence if they don't do something about this Election Fraud.!!!!!!! :nuke:

[Catchawave]

46. I joined the Greens after 2000

but came back to the Dems in 2003 when I didn't see any serious effort to even try to DEFEAT BUSH.

I'm still a Dem now, but a frustrated one, and waiting for the DNC to select their new chair before I decide whether or not I'm hanging around. I'd like to see Dean take over the DNC because he does support the progressives of our party. Someone needs to stir the pot so I can feel that passion once again for politics, instead of rage:silly:

I believe DU does bring the passion and the people together, as diverse as we are, probably why I'm here now :)