Did anyone see Howard Dean on Meet the Press yesterday?

[Leilani]

I was very impressed with his appearance. I agreed completely with just about everything he said, & was interested in that he spoke about REFORM, not talking right vs left.

He also seemed to be saying that yes, he would like to be DNC Chair, but he said, only if he could win...if people wanted him.

He also discussed the issue of becoming Chair vs Candidate in 2008.

I haven't heard anyone who comes close to Dean on rebuilding the party, bringing it into the 21st Century.

He realizes the importance of grass roots, building from the bottom up, & raising money.

Finally, he gets a really bad rap, by being called a wild-eyed liberal. He seems to be more pragmatic, & is very difficult to pigeon hole into a box.

Anyway, I signed the Dean for DNC Chair. Is there any other way those of us who support him can get together & help him get the Chair, since he seems to want it?

[hippiechick]

1. Check ouf the DFA forum.

:hippie:

[Leilani]

3. Thanks, I've been there.

I also thought DUers might want to add to the effort.

[zulchzulu]

2. Did you like his views on Pro-Life Democrats being allowed to make policy?

Here's the interview (Windows Media):
http://movies.ziaspace.com/Dean.wmv

[madfloridian]

5. He did not say that at all. Do you want the transcript as well?

Please quote him correctly.
I will find the quote for you, in case he said it too quickly in the video.

[zulchzulu]

9. Watch the video...

You saw the link.

I don't have a problem with what he said actually. As long as they don't want to overturn Roe v. Wade...whatever.

He addresses it at almost the end of the video.

[Leilani]

18. I agree with reframing the issue

& pro-lifers should be welcomed.

But we don't change principles.

[JaneQPublic]

17. Transcript

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6702005/

MR. RUSSERT: Let me turn to the issue of abortion. The Newsweek reports that John Kerry went to a Democratic meeting to thank his supporters, and they asked him what he had learned from the past campaign. And he said, "We have to find a different way to deal with the issue of abortion in terms of explaining the Democratic position, and we have to find a way to bring in right-to-life Democrats back into the Democratic Party." Could you conceive of a way the Democratic Party could say to mainstream ethnic voters, "We're a different Democratic Party. We may look at perhaps the whole idea of parental notification in terms of abortion. We may look at banning it in the third trimester." Is there a way the Democrats could change their vocabulary on abortion?

DR. DEAN: We can change our vocabulary, but I don't think we ought to change our principles. The way I think about this is--and it gets into the gay marriage stuff, too. We're not the party of gay marriage. We're the party of equal rights for all Americans. You know, I signed the first civil unions bill in America, and four years later the most conservative president the United States has seen in my lifetime is now embracing what I signed. We've come a long way. We're not the party of abortion. We're the party of allowing people to make up their own minds about medical treatment. It's just a different way of phrasing it. We have to start framing these issues, not letting them frame the issues.

I have long believed that we ought to make a home for pro-life Democrats. The Democrats that have stuck with us, who are pro-life, through their long period of conviction, are people who are the kind of pro-life people that we ought to have deep respect for. Not only are they pro-life, which, I think, is a moral judgment--I happen to be strongly pro-choice, as a physician--but they are pro-life more moral reasons. They also, if they're in the Democratic Party, are real pro-life. That is, they're pro-life not just for unborn children. They're pro-life for investing in children's programs. They're pro-life for helping small children and young families. They're pro-life in making sure adequate medical care happens to children. That's what you so often lack on the Republican side. They beat the drums about being pro-life but they forget about life after birth. And so I do embrace pro-life Democrats. I think we want them in our party. We can have a respectful dialogue, and we have to stop demagoguing this issue.

MR. RUSSERT: And if you became chairman of the party, you would actively reach out to pro-life Democrats?

DR. DEAN: In my campaign, supposedly this liberal campaign, we had a number of pro-life people. Our campaign really is a reform campaign. Now, there were a lot of progressive people, and I believe in progressive issues, but what we're trying to do is reform America. We're trying to have health-care reform, we're trying to have election reform, campaign finance reform. We're certainly trying to reform the borrow-and-spend habits of this administration, which is the most spendthrift administration in my lifetime in America. This supposedly conservative administration can't hold on to a dollar, let alone a taxpayer dollar. So we want real reform and I want the Democratic Party to stand for reform.

[JNelson6563]

30. Thanks for posting

tho' the Dean haterz won't welcome the bucket of cold water. ;-)

Julie

[Leilani]

6. Dean has always spoken about abortion being a medical issue

which I agree with COMPLETELY. As a woman, I don't want the gov't between me & my OB/GYN.

Can you tell me what's in the video? My computer is on the edge of dying right now, & I'm treaating it very gingerly.

[zulchzulu]

11. The video is the interview

You need Windows Media and possibly broadband to get the 12MB file. It should play OK when it downloads.

On a sidenote, what's wrong with your computer?

[Leilani]

16. I don't know what's wrong

I have Windows 98, & I hear it's the most unstable.

Anyway, it crashes constantly. Takes it about 10 minutes to get started...I have to reboot about 3 times.

The worst thing: it just deletes everything...I lose my E-mail constantly, lost my internet connections, lost my defragmenter, the touch pad works about 70% of the time.

My son says I need a new one...repairs would be silly at this point.

[zulchzulu]

24. Sounds like Santa needs to get you an upgrade

Get an iMac!

[Leilani]

26. My son just bought a brand new mac & is in love

with his ipod, etc.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Actually,

yes, and here's why: although I am pro choice, I feel that Dean would make the pro life issue more balanced, in that he would make sure that children older than newborns have a chance for life. I see this as a good way to turn the argument on "life" against the hypocrisy of the right.

[madfloridian]

10. Here is the transcript and the quote.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/ID/6702005/


DR. DEAN: We can change our vocabulary, but I don't think we ought to change our principles. The way I think about this is--and it gets into the gay marriage stuff, too. We're not the party of gay marriage. We're the party of equal rights for all Americans. You know, I signed the first civil unions bill in America, and four years later the most conservative president the United States has seen in my lifetime is now embracing what I signed. We've come a long way. We're not the party of abortion. We're the party of allowing people to make up their own minds about medical treatment. It's just a different way of phrasing it. We have to start framing these issues, not letting them frame the issues.

SNIP..."I have long believed that we ought to make a home for pro-life Democrats. The Democrats that have stuck with us, who are pro-life, through their long period of conviction, are people who are the kind of pro-life people that we ought to have deep respect for. Not only are they pro-life, which, I think, is a moral judgment--I happen to be strongly pro-choice, as a physician--but they are pro-life more moral reasons. They also, if they're in the Democratic Party, are real pro-life. That is, they're pro-life not just for unborn children. They're pro-life for investing in children's programs. They're pro-life for helping small children and young families. They're pro-life in making sure adequate medical care happens to children. That's what you so often lack on the Republican side. They beat the drums about being pro-life but they forget about life after birth. And so I do embrace pro-life Democrats. I think we want them in our party. We can have a respectful dialogue, and we have to stop demagoguing this issue.

[zulchzulu]

12. I wonder if he would allow those "real" pro-lifers to want to change Roe

I agree with him, but he does leave an opening for some that might test his welcoming message.

All in all, it was a great interview.

[madfloridian]

15. I agree, and I don't think he would abandon the issue at all.

He is strongly pro-choice, almost rabidly so. He is the same way about the civil unions. He will fight hard for those issues.

[XemaSab]

23. I think

There's an enormous amount we can do in this country to reduce the abortion rate without restricting abortion access.

First and foremost on the list is thorough sex ed in middle school and high school. Everyone should know how to prevent babies before they get started. But it's something the Christian wingnuts don't want kids to know. Call them out on this shit. "Abstinence-only" is utter crap and we should be diligent in making sure this doesn't take over our schools. My young friend in Texas says he got little to no sex ed, and his senior year there were 76 mothers. There's absolutely no excuse.

Second on the list is going after men for child support aggressively. For every woman who has an abortion, there's a stupid man involved.

Third on the list is providing care for women so having a baby isn't automatic financial ruin. The government already has many programs for helping new mothers, and I think it could go further, with childcare being a good start, so women don't have to go on the dole when they have a kid.

Fourth on the list is free birth control.

Fifth on the list is assisting women with adoption services.

Uh... what comes sixth????

[Cheswick2.0]

38. he made it very clear he is pro-choice

did you expect him to say they should be purged from the party?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. I liked what he said as well.

I think he would be the best spokesman for the DNC we could have, because he's already known and cannot be ignored by the media the way someone less known could be.

[madfloridian]

7. Thanks for the nice words today.

He is very practical and sensible.

I doubt he will get it, but they will be aware he was having a say.
:hi:

[msongs]

13. and he wouldnt have abandoned ship faster than the rats....like

our man John.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Leilani]

14. You're very welcome

I've been a Clark supporter, but quite a few Clarkies agree with Dr. Dean on many things.

We've had some discussions in "Politics & Issues Forum"...Campaign 2006-2008. There has been some good interchange there.

Clark supporters & Dean supporters have a lot in common, & I think we had the best grassroots effort after Dean. We also were pretty good fundraisers, & were always part of the outside the beltway crowd.

Now is the time to try & fix what went wrong, & I sure don't see anyone better to do that than Dean.

IMO, we have more in common than differences. My heart is with Gen Clark if he decides on a future run. But that's a different issue.

Edited to add: I know some Clarkies hace joined DFA & contributed.

[Julien Sorel]

19. Russert kept hitting him with his history of Dem bashing,

but Dean didn't swallow the bait.

He was amazingly subdued, perhaps too much so, in fact. He praised Harry Reid.

I could actually see supporting him, as long as he stops trying to have everything both ways.

[Leilani]

20. I thought he was very effective.

Dean took hits on Dem bashing, but there was LOTS of bashing going on, by other candidates & their "surrogates."

And some of it was more subtle; also some done behind the scenes.

[Julien Sorel]

21. Sorry, none of it was like Dean

and his Dem bashing. Every primary campaign has its attacks, its bashes, if you will. But Dean's Dem bashing was the core of his campaign. Take it, and his nominal opposition to the IWR, away, and you have nothing left.

Here's a thought experiment: look at his appearance on MTP, to which someone kindly provided a link above, and imagine where he would have been in the primaries if that were his behavior, as opposed to what his behavior actually was during the primaries. I believe he never would have got off the ground. Yet the MTP appearance is much more in line with who he was as governor of Vermont.

I agree with Joe Biden: which Howard Dean is running for DNC Chair? Is it the pragmatist who was governor of Vermont, or the fiery "liberal" who played loose with the truth in the primaries (and played games around the commitment to serving as DNC chair for the full term)? I could support the former (although I still prefer Simon Rosenberg for his work with the Hispanic community), but despise the latter.

[itzamirakul]

22. Rosenberg?

DLC under a new name...NDN. Same old same old...

[Julien Sorel]

25. Of course he is.

Again, demonstrating a complete ignorance about the DLC, the NDN, and who belongs to what. In fact, the two organizations are rivals. But ignorance, I have noticed, never serves as an impediment to speech here -- quite the opposite, in fact.

[Leilani]

27. Fair analysis...

but everytime I watch Dean in a one-on-one interview, he impresses me.

It is a different persona than he displayed on the campaign trail.He's always low key, thoughtful & moderate in interviews.

As far as his campaign, I think an additional point has always been to try to build from the bottom up...therefore, "You have the Power."
And the outside the beltway message is attractive. I also agree with him on gun rights. I've lived in many red states, & guns mean different things in rural areas. In blue states, with large metro areas, guns mean crime.

[Tom Rinaldo]

28. If Dean has the skills to work with a range of Democrats

well then a range of Democrats will work with Dean. It's that simple. The Democratic Party is always torn by factions. Most Democrats work reasonably well together despite them. The hatchet used by Dean against the DNC during the primaries is far from the only hatchet left lying around from past intra party feuds, ego clashes, and power struggles. There are many bitter rivalries within the Democratic Party, and that will be the case no matter who becomes DNC Chair. As to Dean's prior anti DNC statements, it is not that different than the old saw about Democrats moving to the Left during the primaries, than toward the center for the general election. Different context, different mix of the message. Most Democrats who adapt a more conventional stance than Dean will grudgingly afford his some respect for having skillfully filled an unfilled niche in the Party that allowed him to rise to prominence during the run up to the 2004 nomination. They are unlikely to say so now because there is still a competition underway. One of the most handy arguments to use against Dean during this competition is that he would have trouble uniting the Party. Of course his opponents will use that argument now against him if they are backing someone else.

DNC chairs need a combination of pit bull partisan cheerleading skills, serious fund raising skills, knowledge of the key players and where the bodies are buried, and organizational abilities. Nothing that I know about Dean disqualifies him. He walked a perfect line during the MTP interview, and that showed his political skills. I am not saying that Dean doesn't have a clear vision of where the Democratic Party needs to go. I think he does and that is why I back him for the position. I am simply saying that Dean can front the coalition as well as anyone can. Once the coalition known as the Democratic Party decides which foot it wants to put forward, the other foot will still stick around. Which foot gets to lead is the big question at the moment.

Dean was right. The Party needed to be shaken up. Overall fund raising exploded when Democrats started becoming more aggressive and activists found a role to play. I think Dean is smart enough and skilled enough not to deeply split the party, but wise enough and skilled enough to see and plot the mid course direction correction that it now needs to take. I think Dean is the right man for the job.

[Leilani]

29. I agree Tom.

Excellent analysis, as always.

"Which foot gets to lead is the big question at the moment."

That is exactly the question.

[JNelson6563]

31. Nice post Tom

But a real buzz-kill for some.

:toast:

Julie

[Tom Rinaldo]

37. Ha

I think it is a hoot actually that the race for the DNC Chair has actually become a hotly debated national news story. The fact that there is any buzz at all about it is remarkable, and much of that can be credited to Howard Dean. Not only because his hat is essentially in the ring and he is a charismatic figure, but because Dean empowered millions to believe that the Democratic Party belongs to its members and we should all have a real say about the direction it takes.

I think Howard is saying all of the right things. Ultimately if Dean becomes seen a divisive figure the divide he will be known for is a sharpened distinction between the Republican and Democratic Parties. The DNC Chair is by definition a highly partisan position. Promoting a clear distinction between a Democratic and Republican world view is essential to doing that job well.

For most people Dean burst onto "the scene" after he became a candidate for the Democratic nomination for President. That role by definition emphasized his differences with other Democrats. The whole point of the nominating process is for candidates to articulate a personal vision for how they would lead the Party and Nation differently than other Democrats who they are running against. So the snapshot many have of Dean is focused on his differences with many in our Party, not the common ground he shares with most Democrats, or his life time of working with a broad spectrum of interests within the Democratic Party. Perhaps a more balanced view of Howard Dean was on display during Kerry's Election campaign. Dean was a strong and effective team player throughout it

Our Party's amazing show of unity throughout the Fall campaign was due in some part to the deeply felt antipathy toward George W Bush almost all active Democrats shared. The surest way to preserve that unity, in my opinion, is to install Howard Dean as DNC Chair. Poof! End of flash point split between the DNC and the Party activist base. If Howard Dean accepts the role of helping rebuild the Democratic Party that is exactly what he will do. He will revitalize it and refocus and redirect it, not replace it with his own personal movement a la "Invasion of the Body Snatchers". The National Democratic Party should welcome Howard Dean's energy, his vision, and his dedicated following as a true God send.

[bklyncowgirl]

33. One of Dean's advantages is that he has a foot in many doors

One of the big problems with the Democratic Party is that it's a collection of factions and interest groups. Dean is a mainstream politican who has a fair amount of street cred with activists of many varieties and may be able to get them working in a more constructive manner without giving up any of their cherished beliefs. I liked, for example, the way he handled the abortion question in that interview. I imagine he'd handle the antiwar or gay rights questions in a similar fasion.

If he wants DNC he has my support (for all that's worth).

[Q]

32. Can we learn to distinguish 'Dem bashing' from...

...much needed introspection and constructive criticism? It's telling that it's called 'bashing' when it's someone trying to find a new perspective and thinks outside the box.

I like the idea of opening a 'dialogue' with various factions of the party. A dialogue with 'pro-lifers' doesn't have to mean making abortion illegal. It's about accepting their opinion as valid and working to find alternatives.

Some simply refuse to accept change in the party. Others want change that will destroy what the Democratic party is all about. It would be nice to have someone like Dean in a leadership role...willing to actually THINK AND PLAN about the party's direction instead of trying to remodel the party to appease the opposition.

[DebJ]

34. I agree with Dean's criticisms of the Dem Party. That's why I

want him as Chair.

[Snivi Yllom]

35. he was fabulous

Ass kicking fabulous. Somoeone tell me again why he was not the nominee? Oh yeah, his mic was on too loud.

This guy can win it.

[formernaderite]

36. I so miss him....but am doubtfull that the democratic elite will allow....

him in. He is both pragmatic and passionate, in and understandable way that draws a clear distinction between the democrats and republicans. But he's no insider, and probably won't get the support.