what kind of Dem are DU members for in terms of leadership and philosophy?

[ztn]

We have the conservative "republican lite" pro-corporate like Liebermann.

We have the true idealistic progressive types like Dean and Kucinich and maybe Pelosi and other liberals like Kerry and Joe Biden



We have your standard old-fashionned, inner beltway liberals like Kennedy....(or Hillary??)

We have the kinda socially conservative, centrist heartland liberals like Harry Reid and maybe Gephart

Then we have Moderate liberals like Kerry and Joe Biden

What type do our members want (if not necessarily those individuals) as the embodiment of where we want to go?

[Dr Fate]

1. Courageous truth tellers- I dont care how left or moderate they are.

I want DEM leaders who will go on TV and do somthing "radical"- that is, to look Wolf Blitzer or Judy Woodruff in the eye- and- hold on to your seat- cuz this is some radical shit:

Tell the TRUTH about the liars & criminals in the Whitehouse. When they lie- call them (GASP) "liars." When they do somthing illegal- call them (GASP!!!) "criminals."

OH MY FUCKING GOD! How "radical!!!" Sounds like nutty Micheal Moore conspiracy nut stuff, huh?

There is your answer- I want DEM leaders who can go on TV and speak a few lines of truth. Nothing more, nothing less.

[ztn]

3. I agree completely

And I think a Dean Type will do that. Dean handles himself quite well on TV (Biden does too). He's confident and isn't afraid to tell those store-bought TV hosts what's up and what's down. I like him. I think he wants what we all want.

[Dr Fate]

5. Dean is cool. One of the few. n/t

n/t

[LSdemocrat]

8. Yup. People who don't speak in poll tested platitudes

People like Dean, Bobby Kennedy, and Dick Durbin.

[itzamirakul]

25. Crazy? Hell no! What you are saying is

what a LOT of us want to see and yet our leadership sits on their fat, money collecting arses and does not one damn thing!

[xultar]

2. Honestly I don't like the term Republican Lite. When I hear that I

automatically know what the Deal is.

Why even play the game. I don't like Joementum because I don't like Joementum. So calling him Retug-lite is an insult to Conservative Democrats.


Harry Reid is pro-life, is he Rethug - lite in your eyes? I don't use the war as my litmus test.

I use pro-choice. If a person isn't pro choice they aren't my type of Dem. I wouldn't call them Rethug, just conservative.

This is that self destruction thing Will Pitt was talking about DUers were doing today.

[xultar]

4. Where's the Clark kickin ass taking name types???

:shrug:

[ztn]

6. I think Clark is a Dean Type with a touch of Kerry/Biden

I really like him. I meant no offense. I put him in my ideal group-type like Dean.

[ztn]

7. I correct myself on Hillary....maybe

Sometimes I think she's a radical/abrasive version of Dean or Kucinich and less like Kennedy. Just my reconsidered opinion.

[wyldwolf]

9. flawed

1. Show us how Lieberman is a "republican lite" pro-corporate?
2. Show us how Dean is a "true idealistic progressive."

Sorry - Kerry's record is much more liberal than Dean's.
Not knockin' Dean - who is a true moderate. But he isn't in the same category as Kucinich (even though Dennis voted in the "right" way on several issues...)

[Radical Activist]

10. Dean is very far from Kucinich

I know some people think Dean is a slightly more moderate/electable version of Kucinich, but it isn't true. Dean is closer to Lieberman and the DLC on the issues than he is to Kucinich. You should change your poll.

[wyldwolf]

11. Agree 100%

[ztn]

12. Sorry....

Dean always strikes me as such a grassroots, progressive, energetic type. Maybe I put too many choices. I had a hard time putting Kerry, Dean and Kennedy into different categories. I think they're ALL Great.

However, I don't see Liberamnn and Dean are in the same class. I always think of Liebermann as being in that so-called pro-corporate, pro-business group that decided it was OK to get in bed with corporations to get more money in the coffers.

Some say Clinton was in this group.

[wyldwolf]

14. aside from the Iraq war, Dean's policies have been similar to Lieberman's

As Gov. of VT. Dean was VERY pro-corporate, pro-business...

Lieberman: Rated 25% by the US COC, indicating an anti-business voting record. (Dec 2003)

http://www.ontheissues.org/Joseph_Lieberman.htm

[Radical Activist]

17. Yes Dean strikes a lot of people as progressive

by the way he talks sometimes, but when you look at his record and issue positions he is not. If you saw him on Meet the Press Sunday you would have seen him running away from the liberal label like it was the plague.

[Seabiscuit]

13. Hey - why did you just lump Kerry in with Dean and Kucinich?

I voted for Dean/Kucinich and against Kerry. Now you buried my vote in a mishmash with Kerry.

Put it back the way it was!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. Why Is Howard Dean More Progressive Than Ted Kennedy?

I'll wait to hear for the one issue where Dean, Kucininich, or Nancy Pelosi is more "progressive" than Ted Kennedy....

[ztn]

18. Kennedy is not less progressive

sorry if the poll seem that's way. I should have just said strong left/liberal or moderately liberal/centrist. All the votes, to this point, are in the former group.

[imenja]

32. Labels are meaningless

This survey simply exemplifies that problem. We would likely categorize all of these politicians differently, based on issues and ideas that we see as most crucial.

[ztn]

16. one thing is clear about the polls.....

we all seem to be in agreement on favoring the more liberal, mainly coastal types.

Small polls like these probably show the base leaning towards a progressive, populist type who pro-choice and socially liberal with no preference to corporate interests.

Sounds Ideal to me.

[wyldwolf]

19. uh...

Small polls like these probably show the base leaning towards a progressive, populist type who pro-choice and socially liberal with no preference to corporate interests.

I'm hesitant to call respondants to a poll on a message board to be any way indicative to what the "base" leans toward.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. Twenty Two People Voted...

There are sixty million or so Democrats...


I think you need a bigger and more scientific sample...

[Dr Fate]

21. But not all of those 60 million are active Democrats.

You are more likely to find actual Democrats who donate $$$ and time here at DU.

I'm not so sure that the Democrats who may or may not happen to show up to the polls every now and then really care about who our spokespeople/leaders are.

DEMS need to start throwing some bones to the hard working base- cuz this dog is leaving the yard soon if they dont.

[ChiciB1]

23. KICK!!

I will NEVER lose my LIBERAL tag! I LOVE watching the faces of Repukes when I tell them straight up that I'm a Proud Liberal! Democrats should NEVER sell their souls to become Repuke Lite!
Gagging!
I do agree that we need someone to spit in the faces of the Media and make THEM squirm. I've seen Biden on several occasions give it to them. Biden and Kerry are almost the same to me... just liberal enough. Perhaps Biden has just been "biding" his time.

[ChiciB1]

22. I Really Voted FOR Kerry...

and I would again. He's my type, but Joe Biden is someone I've watched over the years and I really wish he would stick both feet in the water.

The only thing I can think of on him is a semi-plagiarism once. Other than that, he's very very qualified. I also really like Dean and give him kudos for waking some people up. But THEY won't EVER let him run for anything again. But he has BALLS!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. I want someone who

tells the truth and doesn't back down when the Republicans pout.

[itzamirakul]

26. Hillary is centrist - Republican-Lite...

I know, I didn't want to believe it either. but don't forget, Bill and she were co-founders of the DLC and they both subscribe to its ideology. Notice how quiet Hillary has been in the recount effort?
She is my Senator and I voted for her and I still like her...but I would not support her for President and if another, more left-wing Democrat ever challenges her senate seat, she will have to fight for my vote.

[imenja]

29. Why? On which issues do you find her unacceptable?

Besides the recount. I haven't noticed Dean doing anything with that either. Am I wrong? What does centrist mean to you, specifically in terms of issues and principles? I find these labels frustrating since they explain nothing.

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

27. Evan Bayh type? Harold Ford Jr. type?

BTW, it's a bit problematic to lump Kerry in with Dean and Kucinich. Kerry is liberal, but not nearly as far Left as Kucinich, or Dean.

[imenja]

28. I object to lumping Dean and Kucinich together. And Kerry?!

I don't see them as remotely similar. They differ quite a bit in ideology and temperament. I see Dean as far more practical than Kucinich. I vote for Dean, but not Kucinich.

Edit: And Kerry in with those two? On what conceivable basis would you put the three of them together?

[msgadget]

30. I was about to ask the same thing

Kerry isn't that liberal, Dean is a moderate and Kucinich is a progressive.

[imenja]

31. Again, I need to object to the groupings: Gephardt and Reid?

Gephardt is a traditional labor Democrat--opposes so-called free trade treaties like Nafta. I imagine Reid voted for Nafta. Am I correct?
For me, this is an example of why labels--left, centrist, etc... have so little meaning. What are the issues and principles we care about?

[JohnKleeb]

33. I am not really any type

I have a lot of progressive type in me, but I also have a lot of the KEnnedy type as well, and the Gephardt.

[deminflorida]

34. Clark....

I guess your playing MSM with a poll like that...

Don't worry, you'll be forced to include him in the future.

[XemaSab]

35. I've said it before...

....and I'll say it again.

The old labels need to go.

The old ideas of what "liberal," "moderate," and "conservative" meant are irrelevant.

We're fighting (metaphorically, moderaters :-) ) people who aren't "conservative," they're something else.

One person says that Kerry/Dean is too liberal/moderate, and then immediately he or she gets jumped on by someone arguing it's the other way around. And frequently it's the same people taking opposite sides of the issue, depending on what his or her favorite "flamebaiter" is saying.

This is completely useless and unprovable, and a total waste of time.

Personally, I'd LOVE to have a good, solid conservative in the presidency right now who is willing to at least take a stab at balancing the budget.

In order for us to fight people who are apocalyptic fascists, arguing about who is more liberal/conservative is straightening the deck chairs on the Titanic. The thought just sprang to mind that the hardest people to fight are suicide bombers or kamikazes, because they don't expect to come out alive. I think that's what we're dealing with here.

Another poster in another thread made the comment that each of the primary candidates represents a potential future for the party that we'd like to see enacted.

Personally, I'd like to see a Democratic party that recognizes that the real fight here is not about the size of the tax cut, or even what the plan is in Iraq.

The real fight is against people who HATE AMERICA...

That's right, HATE AMERICA!

They hate democracy, they hate the consitution, they hate any social services that ensure a basic standard of living, they hate having a secular state, they hate the centuries of dialogue we have with other free nations, they hate the continual progress we've made towards civil rights and open mindedness and having a TRULY FREE SOCIETY...

I'd like to see a party that "gets it."

I don't think Kerry "got it," and I don't think a lot of other people in the party "get it."

I think most of the folks here at DU "get it."

I'd like to see a future for the party where we really expose them on some of these things, and where our leadership takes a real stand against this shit, instead of compromising on things like the Consitution. "Well, the president wants to scrap it and I kinda want to keep it, so we'll scrap half it to be fair."

Like, seriously, where in the election were the prisoners at Gitmo mentioned? Remember those guys? The guys we're going to let out when the War on Terror is OVER???

Did the dems ever focus on the "designated First Amendment zones?" Or the Patriot Act, which most of them voted for?

I'd like to have seen a question put to Bush about what role his faith plays... in hastening Armageddon. Or a question put to him about whether he's trying to "Starve the Beast?"

I don't think Howard Dean is the most liberal, or the most conservative. I think he's something else that defies easy labels, and I think John Kerry is something else too. So are Clark and Kucinich and Edwards and Gephardt and all the others. I think all of these candidates have good qualities, but they all have things that I respectfully disagree with them on.

But even if I don't agree with everything a candidate says or stands for, above all, I want to see that he or she "gets it."

[rabid_nerd]

36. categories are fatally flawed

skewed by your opinion of the categorizations of people.

No offense meant. Just an observation.

IMHO, and take all this with a grain of salt, I would not consider Dean and Kucinich in the same category, nor Reid and Gephardt, nor Kennedy and Clinton.

Not even by your own descriptions - Dean is not liberal, Kennedy and Hillary in the same sentence just seems... wrong, and you have Kerry and Biden twice.

And Nevada is not the heartland (I grew up in LV,NV)... I even doubt Reid and Gephardt agree on social issues enough for a category.