Bill Clinton on Howard Dean. From 1997.

[dave29]

"I'd also like to say that whatever it is that Howard Dean knows, or whatever it is that he eats for breakfast every morning, if I could give it to every other Democratic office holder and would-be office holder, we would immediately become the majority in the Congress and we would have about 35 governors."
- President Bill Clinton, Nov. 12, 1997

I just remembered this quote and thought I would share it in response to Dean's possible DNC chairmanship.

[tk2kewl]

1. i wonder if the big dog still feels the same way.

:shrug:

[jmellis44]

143. Re:

I wonder if Clinton has shifted his beliefs in general: he apparently pressured Kerry to support a gay-marraige ban.

[On the Road]

2. Call Me Foolish,

but I still think Dean is the future of the party.

[Nordic]

6. He's the ONLY future

the alternatives are gonna go nowhere. The alternatives are all Repug-lite, so by definition the party's over if it's anybody else

[On the Road]

8. Not Only That

I think Dean's moderation makes him stronger than a full-blown leftie. He just has the cojones that are not usually associated with those positions.

Everyone talks about changing the frame of the debate. Dean is one of the few people who actually DOES it every time he opens his mouth.

[Nordic]

10. exactly. the RW tarred him as a "liberal" when he's not

he's common sense, straight shooter, no bullshit

[Eloriel]

16. Absolutely -- sharp, crisp, no-nonsense, and

damned hard to argue with. I LOVE the way this man talks.

Abortion? Congress shouldn't be practicing medicine.

Guns? Keep what we've got, let individual states do what THEY need if they need something different.

Gay rights / Civil unions? It's a civil rights issue, of course we want all Americans to have the same rights as others.

[ohioan]

12. So, if (God forbid) Dean dropped dead tomorrow, the Democratic Party

is doomed?

Sorry, but I just don't believe that our entire future rests in one man. And I think it's terribly dangerous (not to mention, grossly unfair to him) to assume it does.

[quaker bill]

14. Only if doomed = losing

I suspect the party will survive with or without him. Seeing as how we now raise more money than we spend, we apparently can continue to lose elections nearly indefinitely.

[wyldwolf]

15. hang on...

You seem to be implying Dean is the only way we win.

If so, why?

[rniel]

22. he's the only one i've seen that has any balls n/m

n/m

[wyldwolf]

27. but he hasn't won.

He lost in the primaries.

There is no indication that he can win anything on a national level.

[JNelson6563]

29. Congress-critter cabal

It took them all to stop him. Kerry couldn't beat a trained chimp. Sad.

But, unlike some would-be candidates, Dean has actually won many elections.

Julie

[wyldwolf]

32. but not the one that mattered. In fact, he failed miserably

Dean couldn't beat Kerry who couldn't beat a trained chimp. Sad.

[lojasmo]

53. Hundreds of thousands of vermonters would disagree

Nearly universal health insurance, a balanced budget for 11 years running, and legal parity for gays and lesbians. If we could get those things nationally, we'd be far better off.

[wyldwolf]

57. then those Vermonters aren't facing realitty

Dean LOST in the primaries...

All the things you mentioned are in the Dem platform. EVERY Dem candidate for president was for them.

[lojasmo]

63. I'm saying that the elections for vermont governor were important

Dean is the only one among the candidates who had implemented such legislation. The other candidates could only yap about it.

[wyldwolf]

77. were weren't discussing the VT governor's race.

[lojasmo]

81. YOU SAID

he never won an election that mattered. Pay attention.

[wyldwolf]

86. I DID NOT!

I said he didn't win THE one that mattered.

We were discussing the primary race and presidency.

[lojasmo]

96. Ah, I misread....sorry.

[Cheswick2.0]

124. Clark lost the one that matter and so did Kerry...the one that really

mattered. But everyone in the media and on this board and most blogs are talking about Dean more then Kerry or Clark. That includes you. I'd say Dean is winning the war.

[wyldwolf]

132. But this thread isn't about Clark of Kerry

...stay on topic.

If someone were claiming any of the nominees were somehow the future of the party, I'd still ask for evidence of it beyond a small minority of adoring groupies.

[demwing]

140. The topic is Clinton's praise of Dean

indicating that Dean has the right stuff.

The thread is not whether the qualifications of the DNC Chair include having won a national election.

YOU should stay on topic, and if you must share your personal feelings then at least don't "correct" others when they do the same.

Now shush, and quit trying to stir up a fight.

[livinginphotographs]

138. Every Dem candidate may have been for them...

But they certainly wanted to keep it a secret in the general election.

I can count on one hand how many times Kerry talked about gay rights.

[JNelson6563]

60. Again, you ignore the point

but I understand you have to in order to justify your position.

Do you deny that Geppy threw his votes to Kerry and Kucinich his votes to Edwards?

You can if you like but there are too many eye witnesses in Iowa who have reported the facts.

Then again, you backed a guy who never won an election in his life so I can see why you so valiantly try to defend another, who needed the help of all to win his own party's nomination.

That is what is sad.

Julie

[wyldwolf]

89. I think you ignore the point - as always

but I understand you have to in order to justify your position.

Do you deny that Geppy threw his votes to Kerry and Kucinich his votes to Edwards?

So? It's called "politics." I know many Deanies were new to it.

Then again, you backed a guy who never won an election in his life so I can see why you so valiantly try to defend another, who needed the help of all to win his own party's nomination.

Again, it's called "politics." Get used to it.

Dean LOST.

The only help Kerry needed to win MY party's nomination is that of the voters.

You don't grasp that.

That is what is sad.

[JNelson6563]

91. What you call politics

I call dirty dealing. No surprise here we have vastly different standards.

Cheating to win ain't cool with me.

Julie

[wyldwolf]

92. it's called "politics." If you're going to play the game...

..learn how it is done.

Of course, Dean didn't do any cheating. No-siree! :eyes:

[JNelson6563]

134. hahaha I can imgaine how you'd feel

if the congress-critter-cabal had felt the need to join forces to stop Clark. But they used him like a spare tire so youahve no choice but to throw your lot in with the cabal.

I suspected such were your "principles", thanks for confirming.

:toast:

Julie

[Cheswick2.0]

127. The people who participated in the Smear campaign against Dean

have admited to it. If you think that kind of tactic is useful them so be it. But it didn't get us the Presidency and it lost us MORE seats in the senate. So I have to wonder why denying the truth is still so important to you.

[livinginphotographs]

139. "I know many Deanies were new to it."

Wow, how condescending.

So I guess it's okay for Gephardt to vote for the IWR? I mean, it's just politics.

Maybe the Deanies are tired of being "represented" by the Weenies of the DNC/DLC.

[American Tragedy]

99. I don't doubt that he does very well in Vermont

But that isn't the fucking point. He never convinced me or others here that he could win on the national level, which is vastly different from running in New England. Unfortunately, the morons that advised Kerry did not appreciate that fact until it was too late.

And before you say it, I did not support the 'electable' candidate Kerry, in fact I had grave misgivings about him for the concerns that I have already cited. Nor for that matter does Kerry's recent loss somehow mean that Dean would have won.

[Cheswick2.0]

128. It is an opinion

my opinion is that Dean would have done better than Kerry. IT is my opinion that Dean would have had the nomination if the democratic party didn't decide to take him out. It is fact that the democratic party has been losing ground for years. It is my opinion that DFA is actively trying to fix what is wrong with the party.
You can continue to disagree or you can join us and work towards the goals that we do agree on. 2006 is not far away and we need to build the party base and start running in Red states (an idea the party is finally starting to understand..thank you Howard).

[Forkboy]

33. Deanophobia...the disease that can't be cured

[wyldwolf]

34. Deanomania - the disease that can't be cured

[Forkboy]

35. Doesn't apply to me

He wasn't my pick.

However,the Deanophobia clearly does apply to you.

Maybe an ointment will help :shrug:

[wyldwolf]

36. sure it does

you travel to from thread to thread repeating your tired "Deanophobia." Which is misused, anyway - phobia, first dictionary definition meaning a fear of something. No one here who doesn't care for Dean fears him.

Maybe a dictionary will help :shrug:

[Forkboy]

37. I believe you do fear him

desperately.

[wyldwolf]

38. only his scream

I like Dean. I don't like the hero worship-liberal messiah come to save the party-myth that his ardent supporters have created.

[janx]

39. Did you like it when they volunteered for Kerry,

as I did? Did you like them then?

[wyldwolf]

40. are you one of the ardent supporters I described?

...with an almost cult-like adoration?

If so, thanks for the work. I still find you divisive. If not, thanks for the work, you're a true dem.

[janx]

46. Heck if I know. You're the one who is hallucinating about

cultists, not me.

[wyldwolf]

47. no hallucinations

Tell me... of all the losing primary candidates, which one has groupies who almost daily post fawning words about him, drag up 7 year old articles about him, threaten to quit the party is he doesn't get the DNC chair (just as they threatened to leave if he didn't win the nomination)?

And I said "almost cult-like."

Get it straight.

[janx]

135. ?

The reason Dean's name comes up so often now is because of DFA and the DNC chair possibility.

The primaries are over.

[Upfront]

137. How Is It Going

So far? They ganged up on Dean and he made some mistakes, but he spoke the truth, still speaks the truth, and if you can't here the truth then to bad. Kerry, the wonder boy lost, as I think he intended too. Dean is the only way we will ever have a true opponent to the Republican party. All else are just Rethug lite. Maybe you prefer Lieberman? We have been had people, and Howard tried to tell us.

[Forkboy]

41. "hero worship-liberal messiah"

Well,then you understand the problems some of us have had with same type of Kerry supporters,who you seem to oddly leave out of your daily complaints.

Go figure :shrug:

[wyldwolf]

42. two points...

1. I don't have daily complaints about Dean supporters
2. The Dean supporter is a different animal than the Kerry supporter, for sure.

The Kerry supporter was supporting the Dem nomination for president.
The Dean supporter supports a failed candidate from the primaries and still believes he has some sort of shot to "save the party."

[Forkboy]

43. Wrong on 1,right on 2

[wyldwolf]

45. right on both

...

[janx]

49. Nope. The difference is that Dean isn't running for anything

(except the possibility of DNC chair) right now. The real difference is that we and others are thinking and working toward 2006 via DFA. Does that constitute our thinking that Dean "has some sort of shot to 'save the party'" ?

Instead of sniping from the sidelines, why don't you join us in this effort?

[wyldwolf]

51. ... right.

He doesn't have much left to run for.

Others are looking to 2006 regardless of the DFA. It's about the party to us.

And, just so you know, I am FAR from being on the sidelines.

[madfloridian]

54. I think you protest too much.

I absolutely think so. I think maybe there is something about the Dean movement which is gaining new momentum which scares you a little.

Kinda sad.

[wyldwolf]

58. I think you're wrong

..no, in fact, I know you're wrong.

Kinda sad.

Too bad the Dean movement didn't gain enough momentum for him to win.

[madfloridian]

65. He has won. Everyone is using his words now. That is winning.

Kerry used his very words after condemning him for them...he said he were no safer with Saddam captured. There is more....but I don't want to relive the primaries.

[wyldwolf]

76. you ARE reliving the primaries ... which Dean lost

[madfloridian]

111. Dean lost nothing. The party did.

Guess what. They are using his words, and at the conference in Orlando I hear that the others running framed their words in the terminology of whether they agreed with Howard Dean or not. And they used his terms of debate.

That, my friend, is winning.

[wyldwolf]

112. Dean lost in the primaries. Hello? Reality calling!

Who was on the Dem ticket in 2004. Hint: he wasn't from Vermont.

News Flash: This is how politics works.

Dean used a few people's words, too.

[madfloridian]

115. The reality is that the party won....unless they run from change.

Then we all lose. And I think that is quite possible...that we have all lost.

[janx]

118. You're assuming you're

arguing with a team player, MF. I don't think that's the case...

[wyldwolf]

123. I'm not part of a team that demands we play their QB...

..when hasn't shown he's a winner.

I'm part of the Democratic Party team where our QBs are democratically selected.

[wyldwolf]

121. in post 111, you said the party lost. Now they won?

:shrug:

[madfloridian]

130. I worry about you.

I really do.

[wyldwolf]

131. be concerned with yourself

... you need to be.

[demwing]

141. And you have it, in reverse

you just can't shut up and leave the Deaniacs alone.

You have to come and piss on their parade.

Shoo fly...

[Julien Sorel]

48. Didn't you see the primaries?

Dean clearly knows how to win. He's already demonstrated it. All the rest of the Dems simply need to catch up to that sterling performance.

[janx]

50. The primaries are over.

But 2006 certainly isn't.

[Julien Sorel]

56. 2006 is over unless Dean is somehow in control.

That's the message I'm seeing here, anyway. And this place, well, some of the brightest minds in the country congregate here and spread their wisdom and knowledge, so I can only assume they are right.

[Eloriel]

17. The party is already doomed --

haven't you noticed?

Howard Dean MAY be able to bring it back to life. IMO he's definitely got the right treatment protocol outlined:

Monday, December 06, 2004
Major Speech Wednesday
http://www.blogforamerica.com/archives/005625.html
Democracy for America Executive Director, Tom McMahon, sent this email to DFA supporters this morning.

Governor Dean will lay out a vision for the future of the Democratic Party this Wednesday at 12 p.m. Eastern in Washington, D.C.

He will outline not just a direction for our party, but a concrete destination: a party built from the ground up.

That means a party powered by millions of small donors, not millionaires. It means a party that speaks plainly and commits to concrete outcomes that affect real people. And it means a party that competes in every single race, for every single vote, in all fifty states.

You can watch live video of the speech on Wednesday morning at the Democracy for America web site:

www.democracyforamerica.com

The speech itself -- WELL worth reading -- was published on CommonDreams -- I didn't keep the link, apparently.

Can the party "survive" on its own, without Dean? Probably, but how well? And how long? Anybody's guess. I just don't see ANYthing or anyONE who comes close to have any vision at all, let alone a pragmatic, workable, doable, empowering vision like Dean's.

And I can't for the life of me figure out why he's getting so much opposition. Not just here, but among DNCers too.

I'm hoping that if they turn him away he'll just get fed up enough to start his own party. God knows there's a ready-made market. Dean drew from all across the political spectrum with the exception of hardcore evangelical type conservatives. He could do it again, easily.

[JNelson6563]

28. El, haterz are deaf in some ways

this one is one of the most afflicted.

Julie

[demokatgurrl]

21. No, as long as Bill Clinton doesn't go too.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

3. Dean for DNC chairman

[BurtWorm]

4. He actually said that sometime last year, during the campaign.

He also tipped his hat to Dean during the convention, reserving a special notice of him when he was thanking the candidates for running.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

5. I agree completely.

I wish Howard Dean were our party chair.

[livinginphotographs]

7. That's awesome.

I hadn't heard that before.

[lancdem]

9. Nice praise!

[crazyzoeillinois]

11. great quote!!

Bill couldn't have said it better!!!!

[fob]

13. When is the vote for DNC Chair? It seems like the dramas been going on

forever!

[Eloriel]

18. early March, IIRC n/t

[fob]

20. What!?! Leave it to my wonderful Democratic party to schedule

4 months of turf war. I mean I don't want a secret behind closed-doors coronation of anyone, but hell. There are only 400 plus voters, get the bunch together for a frigging weekend, open online voting for REGISTERED DEMOCRATS ONLY and add the results of that "voting" to the other 400 and pick a DAMN LEADER! It's not like the 2006 election season isn't already underway or anything.


Clarification to online voting: Convert percentage received to votes, like this; If Candidate A get 46% of the vote and Candidate C gets 18% then they would get 46 and 18 votes added to their totals from the 400 odd in-person votes.

/rant not aimed at Eloriel

[mzmolly]

19. Great quote.

:hi:

[Lone Pawn]

23. Of course. Dean is a centrist. He ran as a liberal, but he's centrist.

eom

[janx]

24. Uh...no. Dean didn't run as a liberal, and in fact, these labels

the media like to use are not very useful. The media labeled him as some wild lefty; he always described himself as a centrist.

Some people, including Democrats, labeled his "social" positions (translate: civil unions bill) as "liberal."

These labels don't serve any purpose these days, since the parties are changing. Nevertheless, Dean did not run as a liberal.

[Lone Pawn]

25. He can label himself a centrist all he wants to

and labels may be entirely useless, but the public still thinks in labels, and in his take-no-prisoners opposition to the Iraq war and Bush's excesses, he labeled himself "liberal." The media isn't a conspiracy, it's a very stupid animal. The Republicans are much better at training the animal than we are, but that's beside the point.

People tend to believe that the stronger someone's convictions are, the more radical they are. Dean was firey, and Dean was firey in his opposition to the actions of a conservative government. That's all people needed to know. Whether he tried to or not, he ran as a liberal. And if he thinks he didn't run as a liberal, he doesn't have the sense to run the DNC.

[quaker bill]

30. To criticise Bush is to be "liberal"?

Pat Buchanan would be interested to know this. As I recall it, Mr. Buchanan is staunchly against the war and has firey opinions.

By your theory he obviously has to be some sort of socialist.

Think things through before you post.

[Lone Pawn]

69. Buchanan attacks Bush from the right,

and so America sees him as a radical right-winger. Dean attacks Bush from the left, and so America sees him as a radical left-winger. If Dr. Dean doesn't understand this, he doesn't have the judgement to be DNC head.

[Cheswick2.0]

31. Rofl............ you are kidding right?

He ran as who he is, liberal on some issues and centrist on others.
He knows who he is. It's not his fault if people were confused.

[Lone Pawn]

68. If he wants to be chair of the DNC,

a group that dedicates itself entirely to making sure people understand the proper viewpoint on issues, it better goddamn well be his problem if people get confused.

[greenohio]

80. WHAT, Dean isn't proud to be a liberal? Is he trying to shift the party

to the right? No wonder Clinton likes him.

[American Tragedy]

101. Personally, I would rather have a liberal who runs as a centrist

but maybe that's just me.

[MissMarple]

26. Dean's charisma, clarity and vision are desperately needed,

The Democratic Party leadership is beginning to look a lot like a bunch dinosaurs. You can't be a leader if you don't have followers. And that issue about health care and the governors, a group of Democratic governors wanted to create state level health care programs and the national guys nixed it because they wanted Congressional leadership to get the credit. Stupidheads!!!

[greenohio]

44. I knew Dean was a DLC plant. Clinton LIKES him...this

can't be good.

[lojasmo]

55. I roll my eyes at your lame sarcasm. N/T

[greenohio]

61. Heres a quarter...

buy a sense of humor. You sound angry.

[lojasmo]

62. Nice meme

That's what all the uptight impotent women in my local democratic party tell me constantly.

[greenohio]

67. You know, if lots of people of saying it, maybe you should take a hint.

[lojasmo]

70. mmm...fifth grade. N/T

[Lone Pawn]

75. Seriously, dude, are you okay?

[lojasmo]

82. heh. I'm fine.

[greenohio]

79. You ok? You sound angry.

[lojasmo]

83. ..........

:eyes:

[greenohio]

87. I'll take that as a yes.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lojasmo]

100. I don't have an argument. You're accusing me of being angry...I'm not.

[wyldwolf]

104. I've accused you of nothing

[lojasmo]

105. okay

:eyes:

[wyldwolf]

110. can you follow a thread?

:eyes:

[lojasmo]

114. Oh that's right....

you called me angry in the OTHER thread.

[wyldwolf]

120. which thread? Let's see a link

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

125. trend stops here

..unless I do something worthy of beiing T.S.ed.

[greenohio]

106. I was asking you if you were angry. Its only cause I care.

Now I forget. You are angry aren't you?

[lojasmo]

107. LOL. I'm only angry if you are a troll. N/T

[RandomKoolzip]

74. "Impotent women" (sic) ?!?!

Since when can women be "impotent?"

[lojasmo]

84. politically impotent. N/T

[greenohio]

88. Women are politically impotent? Wow, you must be a ladies man.

[lojasmo]

94. Jesus. Some that I know are.

Some that I know are very active and effective. the local party leadership is not very effective.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

71. A quarter sounds about the right price for that joke

[greenohio]

78. And 10 cents for that one....it was a joke right...FORKBOY?

Hard to tell when your tellin em. Keep trying though...you're getting better.... I think....maybe not...

[wyldwolf]

59. LOL! GOOD one!

[Freddie Stubbs]

52. Must be the maple syrup

"These boys get that syrup in 'em, they get all antsy in their pantsy. "

[proud patriot]

64. I hadn't seen that quote before

:-)

[Snivi Yllom]

66. WHY IN GODS NAME was this not a Dean ad!!!!!

Jaysus this could have helped him.

[madfloridian]

72. There is more to the story.

Don't want to relive the primaries. Clinton was not supporting Dean at all in the primaries.

[lojasmo]

85. Nope.....

"Dean doesn't deserve to get the nomination because he passed the vermont civil rights legislation"

Paraphrasing Clinton during the primaries.

[flaminbats]

73. my Republican relative thinks Dean would of won..

My cousin is more moderate, unlike me! He believes Kerry and Edwards lost..especially in Iowa, Ohio, and New Mexico, because they were Senators. Dean's record would have been harder to attack, giving him more credibility when opposing the Iraqi War and pushing for healthcare reform. Unlike Kerry or Edwards, Dean would of had no attackable voting record.

Why did Dean dropout!?!

[wyldwolf]

90. Why did Dean dropout? Because he lost in the primaries

[greenohio]

93. LOL Those darn primaries. We need to get rid of them so Dean can win.

[madfloridian]

109. When everyone is talking about you, arguing over you, using your words....

Then you HAVE won. He has won. He won because he is causing the party to talk about issues they would rather not discuss.

[wyldwolf]

113. LOL

When everyone is talking about you, arguing over you, using your words....

Only on DU is everyone talking about Howard Dean and then only when his cult-like followers bring his name up.

And Dean uses other's words, too.

For example - on the campaign trail, he said multiple times he was from the "democratic wing of the democratic party" - a line "borrowed" from Paul Wellstone.

[madfloridian]

117. Love the "cult-like" followers line. It sure gets used a lot.

At one time it would have been considered an insult here,but now it is one of the nicer things people say.

[wyldwolf]

119. glad you approve it.

[Cheswick2.0]

122. the primaries are over

you should really let it go

[wyldwolf]

126. gotta agree, which is why these "Dean is the future" ...

"...dems can't win without Dean" posts are pointless.

[janx]

136. It doesn't have anything to do with the primaries.

:shrug:

[demwing]

142. If these posts were pointless, then why bother countering them?

Unless you enjoy fighting that which you believe to be pointless.

How sad. No life.

[flaminbats]

129. great idea...

time for a national primary!

[mattclearing]

103. What a great quote.

Dean is the only hope of the DNC. He will lead the Democratic Party, either through DNC or DFA.

My money will go where he goes, and there are thousands of us out there.

[janx]

108. Hundreds of thousands,

actually! ;-)

[donheld]

133. I absolutely love it

I wish everybody could hear that.