How Many Dominionists and Rapture Fanatics Do You Know?

[Cats Against Frist]

Someone -- I suspect a "skeptic" -- posted in another threat that he/she wasn't quite so sure that there were such things as dominionists, who are trying to bring about the end of the world, or whatever.

I, myself, do not know any. Splitting most of my time between an very liberal city in Iowa and Seattle, WA -- I don't mingle so much with fundamentalists. I know one left-wing fundamentalist, and he's scared shitless of the right-wing fundamentalists and swears they're out there.

My family is no help -- they're all white trash pseudoChristians, who care about Christ so long as it doesn't interrupt the television schedule.

Who are these people? I fully believe they're there, and I want to be ready for them. Who bought those "Left Behind" books? Who calls up Washington Journal and goes into a near-delusional rave about how God appointed Bush? Do they ALL live in the South? (Sorry, Southerners, I know you hate that). Are they white? Are they poor or middle class? Do they live thriftily or is there seriously a dominionist out there who rolls around in a giant Chevy Tahoe listening to Toby Keith, dreaming about getting an air compressor for Christmas -- when he's not waiting for the Lord to smite the nonbelievers?

Do they wear embroidered teddy bear vests -- or is this just my sterotyping again? Is it the fun-lovin', turned-up-collar-ed frat boys from the GOP convention pics?

WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? TELL ME, because I don't know.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. If you really want to know more about it, check out this site.

or just google dominionism. It will keep you busy for a while.
The man who financed the four companies that built the e-voting machines is adominionist, if that means anything. Many of the Ultra-conservative Republicans are of that persuasion.

http://www.tylwythteg.com/enemies/reconstruct2.html
What is Reconstructionism?

Reconstructionism is a theology that arose out of conservative Presbyterianism (Reformed and Orthodox), which proposes that contemporary application of the laws of Old Testament Israel, or "Biblical Law," is the basis for reconstructing society toward the Kingdom of God on earth.

Reconstructionism argues that the Bible is to be the governing text for all areas of life--such as government, education, law, and the arts, not merely "social" or "moral" issues like pornography, homosexuality, and abortion. Reconstructionists have formulated a
"Biblical world view" and "Biblical principles" by which to examine contemporary matters. Reconstructionist theologian David Chilton succinctly describes this view: "The Christian goal for the world is the universal development of Biblical theocratic republics, in which every area of life is redeemed and placed under the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the rule of God's law."

More broadly, Reconstructionists believe that there are three main areas of governance: family government, church government, and civil government. Under God's covenant, the nuclear family is the basic unit. The husband is the head of the family, and wife and children are "in submission" to him. In turn, the husband "submits" to Jesus and to God's laws as detailed in the Old Testament. The church has its own ecclesiastical structure and governance. Civil government exists to implement God's laws. All three institutions are under Biblical Law, the implementation of which is called "theonomy."

[Cats Against Frist]

3. Oh -- I know ABOUT them, and what they believe

I'm seriously trying to figure out who they are, as in, like when I'm out on the street. Or if I visit a small-town shop or something -- how do I know? I noticed the other day that this local Iowan Salsa I bought to send back to Seattle had a little Christ fish thing on the side, and it said "thank you," by it. I figured that I just gave money to dominionists. It said that the family operates a small tomato farm. That's all I know.

I have images in my head -- one is of a really rich white guy who has like a gimungo business and eight adopted Romanian kids and he's got a house like a palace and believes in conservative social institutions and that God smiles down on the rich.

Then, on the other hand, I have Pearl, on a threadbare couch, sending her last five bucks to Pat "Diamond Mine" Robertson.

But, if there were some common identifier, you think they'd be easy to spot. I want to know if they go to, you know, Menards.

[Obviousman]

2. All the ones I knew

were raptured already. I saw it happen before my eyes, they just lifted up into the sky :eyes:

[leesa]

36. Did you get their stuff?

[On the Road]

4. I Used to be an Evangelical

although the only I know any longer are my family.

There are tons of "rapture fanatics," as you put it. You would not believe how many people believe in the rapture, the tribulation, and the second coming. They are in the Bible, even though there are other interpretations.

There are very few true Dominionists, on the other hand. It's an obscure offshoot of Calvinism (Rushdoony of the Dutch Reformed Church), which somehow managed to get a following among some dispensationalists. A lot of evangelicals might nod in agreement with the idea that society should be governed on Christian principals or with the Bible verses dominionists cite. But I don't think many of them have either read the material or thought the issue through.

[Cats Against Frist]

5. OK -- but do they listen to rock-n-roll?

What kind of cars do they drive -- either the "rapture fanatics" -- what should I call them? End-timers? -- or the Dominionists. Do they go to strip clubs or watch "Survivor."

I just have this terrible dissonance with people talking about fundamentalists and these people who are all up on the lord. I simply do not know any, and I do not know what they do or where they go (besides church, I presume). Are these the people who live in exurbia? What does the lord have to do with vinyl siding?

Do they think that Pat Robertson and Ben Kinchloe REALLY have magical powers to see sick people in "Colarada?"

[yellowdogintexas]

9. it would have to be Christian rock n roll, only I am sure

[Ms_Mary]

25. Not really, there are a lot of contradictions, but most listen to country.

[On the Road]

13. You're In Iowa City?

You probably know more than you think. You may know people who go to church and speak in tongues or knock on doors evangelizing and don't mention it at work. (Many people at work don't know my political or religious views.) They look for cues to detect like-minded people, just as liberals do. If you have anti-Bush or anti-religion messages all over the place, evangelicals may just go into hiding.

Evangelicals have a wide range of beliefs and lifestyles. Some believe in healing, for example, others do not. Pat Robertson is not universally accepted. Some are extremely traditional, combative, and moralistic. Others are more laid back, try to accommodate wherever possible, and have a lifestyle indistinguishable from many non-Christians. Like politics, some people wear their beliefs on their sleeve and try to influence others; just as many do not.

A lot of evangelicals pretty much live the way other Americans do. They do tend to avoid TV shows or movies with sexual themes. Any evangelical who goes to a strip club knows he is committing a sin, although some may still do it from time to time. (I was in strip clubs twice when I had those beliefs -- in one case, I was taken by my boss, and the other as a passenger with a large group of people.)

[Cats Against Frist]

14. I don't mingle with the locals so much

I did sort of snap at a woman who had a "Christ is Lord" license plate and a B/C '04 sticker the day after the election -- but just about everyone else I'm around is in the writing community, and they're all like nihilists, pseudobuddhists, postmodernists and alcoholics. Not a lot of "fundies" there. There is one neocon, in my circle of acquaintances, though, I hear. I haven't met her.

Again, if you read the post below, I'm seriously trying to flesh out what these people are like. I hear people talk about them all the time. Was it different, in say, the 1980s? Because I grew up in a small, Christian, "dry" town, and all the adulterers and embezzlers and drug-addicted housewives went to church and played pious, and all, but they were just normal people, you know "acting." I'm curious about these fundies, and how they "act."

Also -- I haven't figured out, yet, at this point, how much sway they really hold within the administration. Seems like capitalism would trump them -- which would get in the way of a lot of their moral stuff. Do you think they care about, say -- a girl in a bikini selling hair conditioner? I assume they object to outright porn -- but it seems kind of ironic that the fundies never attack prurient advertising -- or maybe they do, and I just don't know about it...

[blondeatlast]

22. "how much sway they really hold within the administration"

VERY LITTLE, post-election day.

Seriously, I don't think W.rong truly believes in the "end times" philosophy, but he and his crime family have figured out how to exploit what is true fear in these people, but they left them cold and alone on November 3.

They won't get a "call back" until W.rong is desperate and up against a wall to get what he wants.

The administration may use the "code," but they don't believe it.

These people are very careful NOT to let others know their beliefs unless they get an idea you are like-minded, but if you give them any sort of code, even if it was by accident, look out.

[On the Road]

30. It's Not Too Different from 20 Years Ago

that I know of. Evangelicals have adapted a lot more to the style and culture of America. They used to be all squares -- now there are Christian groups on tatoos, choppers, and powerlifting (as Chavez keeps us informed of). Most evangelicals are basically moral people, but they're still people. They have the same inconsistencies and blindnesses that all of do.

Think of how you would adapt to society if you felt that much of the culture was immoral. You could be outspoken and try to look as different as possible or just fit in and avoid doing things that you particularly disagree with. There's a whole range there, but it's skewed more in the direction of accommodation on style while trying to maintain principles.

One reason is that evagelicals are more likely to accept that society is no longer Christian. Evangelicals definitely hate prurient advertising, but you don't as much of a public outcry as you used to during the 60's.

One way to get a better feeling is to actually go to a big evangelical church in the suburbs.

[Cats Against Frist]

15. Exellent punctuation, by the way

It's getting late for me, and I start to screw up, but you have comma and hyphen savvy.

[blondeatlast]

21. From my experience (see my post below) they tend to rather

boring and even shy. Very modest in their dress (JC Penney might be too "chic" for them). I'm pretty sure rock 'n roll and strip clubs are completely verboten; we've gotten "request for reconsideration" on CDs by Christian artists, for pete's sake.

Very polite until they get you engaged in a conversation, then look out.

True dominionists they aren't, but they believe in the "Left Behind" books as docudrama, not fiction.

Mind that I work in a public library in the heart of the city; they are EVERYWHER, but they don't stand out in appearance at all.

[Geek_Girl]

32. I have a friend who use to leave

Rapture Pamphlets around the house so his agnostic room mates would know what to do if the rapture comes. But most of the people I know who believe in the rapture are pretty normal and not to fanatical. I don't think you could really point them out in public.

[leesa]

37. They do all these things and more. They mostly look regular, usually

lot's of Jesus paraphanalia in their office, cube, car, etc. I know lot's of Fundies both in my family and at work and in my very conservative neighborhood. Probably the only commonality in this group is that they are all low-middle class, or poor, some have had real rough times in their past, some didn't, but have convinced themselves they have. None of them seem very happy.

[bobbieinok]

45. watch TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network) it's probably on cable

everywhere

then watch Benny Hinn, James Hagee, Kenneth Copeland

Richard Roberts Something Good Tonight
http://portal.orm.cc/servlet/page?_pageid=1086&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30

[AntiCoup2K4]

48. Guess you haven't seen the 700 Club for a few years

Ben Kinchlow is long gone. What's weird is that he left in about 1996 without any explanation at all, and his name was never mentioned on the show again, to my knowledge.

Here's where it gets interesting: Around this time I was the tech support manager for a bible software company. A lot of religious right types from the South were among the customer base. One day I was talking to a guy who mentioned he lived in Virginia Beach VA. Jokingly I asked him if he knew Pat Robertson. Turns out the guy was actually a former CBN producer, and still in regular communication with Pat Robertson and others involved with the show. I asked him what happenned to Ben.....

About 30 seconds dead silence. I thought the call was dropped. Finally he kinda stutterred and said "well.....uhhhh I really shouldn't repeat anything until I've had a chance to speak to the man" and wouldn't elaborate further.

So whatever it was that broke up the "Johnny Carson" and "Ed McMahon" of televangelism, it must have been some serious shit. I'm thinking Ben's either gay, or he was having an affair with Pat's wife.

[Maat]

8. I've kind of had a similar experience, Ribofunk.

My in-laws, who never went to church in their lives before (that I know of - and I've known Mr. Maat for 27 years) - moved back to Oklahoma, near Oklahoma City. As far as I can tell, that's the Bible Belt of the Bible Belt. They became far right Southern Baptists, and talk about their pastor thinking that it is 'the end of times.' The Church is the focus of everyone's lives there, and all social activities seem to go through there. And, it seems as if political news and belief systems concerning everything flow from the pastor, including whatever has to be set up for Christ to come back, or whatever.

They certainly haven't become official Dominonists, but sometimes they scare me with what they say - viewing Muslims and other religions as the enemy, almost.

They have high school educations, plus a couple of the family members that moved back there have a couple of years of nursing training each (enough to be registered nurses). Two are retired, one is a doctor's wife. Retirees are middle class; doctor and wife are upper middle class. Just the area, I guess.

The one thing I noticed is that each fundamentalist, before they were 'born again,' really believed in the patriarchal society, with women staying home with the kids. Education is almost considered a waste. Sewing is more important.

Very mysterious to my husband and I, who have two Bachelor's, three Master's, and two doctorates between us.

[Cats Against Frist]

12. So they go to church, and like church picnics

and probably like have a Scrabble night, or something, with Church friends, and then the browse the 'net for Thomas Kinkade paintings and do a lot of housework so things are "just so," and send people their birthday cards on time, and wear white polyester underwear with like the cotton crotch (I'm not making fun, I sometimes do), and maybe they play mini golf sometimes? Own a flower shop?

I think people are going to think that I'm joking, but it seriously seems like its an alternate universe, and there must be tens of MILLIONS of them (I'm not discounting election fraud), for Bush to get so many voters. Then I read a poll where some 60 percent of people believe every literal word the Bible says and that the Earth was created in six days -- I KNOW AMISH PEOPLE who don't believe everything they read in the Bible.

But no one I know is like this. Even the people I know that have a "The Solution is as close as your knees to the floor" cross-stitched in an oak frame are not fundamentalists, and barely care about religion except for in an identification sense.

Where do you think I could go to see a lot of them, at one time? What are some of the names of the Churches that they go to?

[InvisibleBallots]

35. about these statistics:

"Then I read a poll where some 60 percent of people believe every literal word the Bible says and that the Earth was created in six days"

When asked a question like this:

"Do you believe that God created the world in 6 days like it says in the Bible"

60% will check the box marked "yes".

What does that tell us about what these people actually believe or think? Next to nothing.

[bobbieinok]

46. for churches....look in the phone book for Assembly of God or non-denomina

non-denominational churches (they are usually pentecostal)

[bobbieinok]

47. maybe not in IA City, but check DesMoines and Johnson City

I know there are pentecostal churches there

[UTDemocrat8204]

53. It's like a weird

Twilight Zone episode.

[UTDemocrat8204]

52. I think it's sad

they focus on just the end of times. I'm a church go-er and at our church we don't talk about the end times but just how to make our lives better spiritually and life lessons etc. I've never heard any of our preachers or teachers talk about end times. I think it's nuts to focus on death and Jesus comes back. What if you die and he isn't there? I'm as faithful as anybody but sometimes I do wonder..... :shrug:

[UTDemocrat8204]

51. Not too long ago

at my church in the college class we talked about the 1,000 rule reign that Christ is supposed to do here on Earth before he takes his rightful followers to Heaven. There's this book we're studying now called "Why the Church of Christ?" and the guy who wrote the book wrote about this and he has biblical scripters to back him up. Basically he says that couldn't be true because Jesus always talks about not putting your posessions and things of the heart here cause in his world they'd be useless and also how his world can't be shaken and the Earth can. So I personally wouldn't believe everything out there on that and in the book of Revelation. I was once watching a program on the History channel about the final canon books and how they got there and one point some of the people talking about this (Bible scholars) said the book of Revelation almost didn't make it there cause of how crazy it sounds reading it.

[Ladyhawk]

6. I used to be one.

In fact, I don't know many people who don't fall into this category.

They are definitely up to no good!

"Do they think that Pat Robertson and Ben Kinchloe REALLY have magical powers to see sick people in 'Colarada'?"

In a word, yes.

That's what you're dealing with.

[Cats Against Frist]

10. Besides the fact that they're totally superstitious and weird

do they look and act like anyone else? If you seriously thought the end times were coming -- would you like, get up out of bed and go to a job? Or clip coupons?

Maybe I'M the extremist -- but if I thought the world was going to end soon, I think I would probably stop brushing my teeth or paying my water bill or something. :)

[blondeatlast]

23. Yep, they are often delusional, and the W.rong administration exploits

it like hell, but doesn't really give a rat's ass about these people, only their votes and checks.

[yellowdogintexas]

7. My brother in law may be convinced that the End Times are

near, but I don't think he is on a campaign to have it happen anytime soon. He just got caught up in all the "Left Behind" garbage and believes it is confirmation of all that is in Revelation. I don't even talk about it with him.

He is a white male Texan, co -owner of a family business with his brother and sister, divorced with not a whole lot of cash flow.Bush's economy has hit him too.

I have no doubt that they are out there, and that the descriptors you use could apply equally.

I just don't personally know any and wouldn't hang around them long enough to get the details.

[Cats Against Frist]

11. Would he go to, say Red Lobster?

If I saw him on the street, would I think anything of him? Do his kids watch Nickelodeon?

[yellowdogintexas]

17. yeah, he took us all out to Bennigans for his daughter's 21st

birthday party.
He never forgets our birthdays
He is a very nice guy
He is sincere in his dedication to his faith.

I think he had some sort of revival conversion.

I just consider him to be somewhat misguided.

He has even gone to Candlelight Communion with us on Christmas Eve and our service is so vastly different from what he is accustomed to I was not sure how he would react, but he took Communion with us..which I did not expect. (He is Baptist, and I am Methodist) But he accepted our open table concept and complimented the service.

Poor old duck, his ex wife really treated him terribly, screwed him over, used their daughter as a pawn, etc ..and the poor guy thinks he can never marry again as long as she is still alive because of the statement in the Bible that if you divorce and remarry you are an adulterer.

And if you want a good deal on work clothes, jeans, sweats or scrubs his business is the place to go.

[UTDemocrat8204]

54. Aw sounds like

a nice guy who's had some hard luck. :(

[yellowdogintexas]

62. you said it

and just handled it in a different way ..

[MrSlayer]

16. I've never met one.

Outside of the lunitics on the subway I've never come across any.

[gottaB]

18. I used to be one until about age 7, an evangelical

The only ones I know are family, distant cousins, aunts and uncles. They are based in rural Minnesota, Wisconsin and South Dakota. Most of them are white. They fall into all income brackets. Some have done quite well, but none are billionaires. They are all thrifty, as am I.

I don't know about the "Left Behind" books, but I imagine that some of them have read them and talked about them. Actually, I seem to recall an aunt once-removed who talked about those, or some similar series of books. One cousin known for her fervor has often recommended books to me, but I can't say that I've ever followed up on one of her recommendations.

The most religious members of the family tend to be the least partisan. Their primary allegiance is to Jesus. The most partisan Republican in the family is not remarkably religious, and surely would not say that Bush was appointed by God. The most partisan Democrat might well believe that Bush is the antichrist. I'll have to ask her.

There is indeed a rightwing fundamentalist politics which has gained adherents among the evangelicals. It is creepy. It should be regarded as a force to be reckoned with.

I don't think most of the devout evangelicals have an attitude like they are waiting for the Lord to smite the nonbelievers. They see themselves as gentle people who want to be with Jesus, and pray for every soul to be saved. Of course some people do have a nasty streak, and surely that's part of the reason why the rightwing stuff appeals to them.

Embroidered teddy bear vests, turned-up-collar frat boys. There are a few of those, I guess, but that's not especially evangelical.

[pantouflard]

40. Know more than a dozen, most family members.

Don't honestly know if any are dominionists, but I wouldn't be surprised if several were. They are mostly good people, take the bible literally, attribute any tragedy or illness to satan, believe the end times are approaching, Bush was appointed by god, etc. One has a particularly nasty streak, loves Ann Coulter and Rush, feels threatened by anything that's "different."

These people are all from Oklahoma and Texas. Surprise, surprise.

[UTDemocrat8204]

55. Do they think

Clinton was the devil and John Kerry his sidekick? :eyes:

[orpupilofnature57]

19. Religious fanatics employ their ideologue on everyone, how many

fanatical do you? Because you BELIEVE in something DOESN'T MAKE YOU A FANATIC.

[blondeatlast]

20. Working at a library public service desk, I can say I truely know of many.

They do indeed exist, and your stereotype isn't terribly far off, actually. While they love to make use of the library, we are also seen as a tool of Satan--I'm not kidding, I was told this once.

W.rong is NOT a sincere one, or he'd be as delusional as the ones I've encountered. For him, it's a convenient way of winning elections, nothing more.

These people walk it, talk it, breathe it. They tend to be polite and unassuming until they get you engaged in conversation, then look out.

I've taken to pretending I'm losing my voice or have a bad cough in order to avoid engaging them (we are required to walk them to the item's location).

:scared: :scared: :scared:

[Ms_Mary]

24. I grew up with that. Maybe I can shed some light on it

I wouldn't have called myself a fanatic but it was always presented to me as THE ONLY WAY and for a long time I was scared of exploring other things. It wasn't until I was an adult that I truly began examining my beliefs and understanding that it wasn't necessary or required that you interpret the Bible literally. I am now a liberal Christian and I'm far more comfortable in that than I ever was as a conservative. I understand how these people believe because I'm surrounded by them. I am one of a few odd people out here.

It's fear based religion. They learn from an early age that sinners die and go to hell and they don't want that. So they become afraid to question. They are afraid to accept sinful ideas like evolution, because they think that failing to interpret the Bible literally is to reject God's word. They fear exposing themselves to things they don't understand. They think anything other than exactly what the Bible, the infallible word of God says, is wrong. There's a whole idea that if you stray, you might not really be saved and you'll go to hell even though you thought you were saved. So, you not only have to be afraid of hell, you have to be afraid that you were wrong about being saved and burning in a literal fiery hell forever even though you thought you were saved. That kind of fear keeps people in. There's no middle ground.

I was never a truly closed minded person. I was always curious and insistent on asking questions. I didn't see any reason why creation HAD to be in conflict with evolution. Still, I had to overcome a lot of deeply ingrained fears to come to where I am today. But I'm damn glad to be at the place I am. Many years ago, I would have been upset and angry to hear anyone say it, but it's very much like brainwashing. The same message is repeated over and over and because it's a message of fear, sin, and hell, people are terrified to do anything that might be seen as rejecting it.

Me? I prefer to follow Jesus's teachings of tolerance, generosity, charity and love. The current religious right does a lot of things in the name of God that don't have a thing to do with God.

[blondeatlast]

26. Were you taught "dominionist" or "end times" philosophy?

Again we are talking about Christianity by degrees. I know many very RW Christians who balk at the "Left Behind" books and Armageddon philosophy.

They think it's as wacky as I do (I'm a liberal Christian).

"Dominionist" and "end times" (not quite the same, but similar) philosophies are a subculture of fundamentalist Christian thought that is becoming increasingly mainstream.

W EXPLOITS their fear, but he doesn't believe in it, I'm willing to bet.

[Ms_Mary]

27. End times. And it's funny that some people seem to think it's detectable

A lot of people believe that but you can't tell it by looking at them or often enough, even by talking to them unless they start witnessing to you. A lot of normal, everyday people believe in the literal end times philosophy, even some of my more liberal friends.

[FlaGranny]

38. Your upbringing was much like my father's

from the 1890's until he rebelled, I believe as a teen. The whole hellfire and damnation thing turned him into a lifelong atheist. I have a bible I was given as a youngster, which my father got ahold of at some time, and made notations throughout it, i.e., "horrible," "murder and torture" and such things, in the appropriate places. He was extremely repulsed by the old testament and I have no trouble seeing why. He died 15 years ago at 89 years old. A gentle, compassionate, and generous man, and more "christian" than any Christian I know.

[UTDemocrat8204]

56. Nice to meet another

liberal/democrat Christian. :hi: I remember Al Franken did an interview with Mr. Carter not too long ago and he made so many great remarks on how to show people Bush isn't really doing God's work in the House. Oh and has anybody seen the movie "When God Entered the White House?" Now that is scary....

[countryjake]

28. I had to abstain from voting...

on your poll cause you give no option for "I am surrounded by them & fight a day-to-day struggle to OPEN their minds"! And I've got a bullet hole in my window to prove it! You can't characterize them all under one appearance, locale, or attitude. Some are quite sincere & unassuming, regular as a sunrise & hesitant to even discuss their beliefs, until some conflict arises, which tends to bring out a nasty superior guise, especially if they view you as a heathen or "unaware" of our purpose on Earth. Others (and these ones tend to be the "misfits" who were somehow "transformed to see the error of their ways") are very much in-your-face, ready to fill another seat at church; arguing the daily news, saying grace at school, the threat of homeless in the woods, or their right to roar an ATV next to your home.

I have an ongoing conversation with one friend who thinks we have to take over the Middle East in order to make room. She believes that the only way she'll get to heaven is after we've shipped all the American Jews back to the holy land, where they belong, so her god can burn them all up, like it says in the bible. This woman has had an extremely hard life, worked her fingers to the bone, buys her clothes at thrift stores, butchers elk in her carport cause she can barely afford groceries to feed two kids & goes to a born-again biker baptist meeting every Sunday afternoon, in her pick-up truck. She doesn't much like our prez cause she thinks he's a phony rich man, & makes fun of him with the best of us, but gave in & voted for him cause she thinks he'll get this country onto a better track. Her religion is very important to her as it's pretty much all she has left, to keep her life together, something to hold onto...hope. But she despises & distrusts most politicians, right down to our local sheriff & views "politics" as the way rich people control the rest of us.

[UTDemocrat8204]

57. What your friend said

about Jews isn't very Christian at all. <I have an ongoing conversation with one friend who thinks we have to take over the Middle East in order to make room. She believes that the only way she'll get to heaven is after we've shipped all the American Jews back to the holy land, where they belong, so her god can burn them all up, like it says in the bible.> What would Jesus say about that? It's amazing how cruel these people are.

[countryjake]

63. Funny thing is, she's not even one of the pushy ones.

The only reason I'm aware of this belief of hers is thru many discussions on each of our personal lives. I had mentioned that my daughter's family is Jewish & she questioned whether they were religious; when I said they weren't she implied that there was still hope for her. She went on to explain her entire "endzacomin" theory, & as absurd as it is, she was totally sincere & believes there are certain events which definitely must be fulfilled before the "Rapture" occurs & the "good" will be yanked to heaven.

Aside from this gal's bigotry, she's not a bad person, at all, & whenever I get a chance to shoot-the-shit with her, on mommie stuff & griping about the price of eggs, I always manage to worm in a bit of enlightenment on her racism problem & intolerance of my own heathenhood.

If you haven't seen it, you should check out the PBS show Frontline's thing they did on our prez & all of the "Poof People" (that's how I think of those Rapture folks, behind their backs, of course). Here's a link for the site:

Frontline - The Jesus Factor

[supernova]

29. Here in the bible belt

Actually, no. I don't know any dominionists or conservative evangelicals for that matter.

I must belong to the wrong denomination. :crazy: I belong to a mainline protestant church. I'd say it's about 1/2 liberal 1/2 conservative, perhaps a smidgen of old-time fundie (a couple of people who used to be Babtist). This is a PCUSA church and I'm liberal protestant.

Everyone I know who identifies as conservative, who I can see in my mind's eye, doesn't take the Bible literally. They are not big rapture fanatics either. Most are just trying the best they can to get by day to day.

I could offer up my cousin who was a Pentacostal Holiness preacher at one point. Though, none of his siblings are that religious. When we get together, we don't talk religion so I can't guage his feelings on the matter.

I think whoever pointed out that the rapture/dominionist folks seem to be a seperate subculture have it about right. I know they exist. Their effect on our government is obvious. But I personally have no experience with them. :shrug:

[blm]

31. You have no category for my reality. I know at least 40 people in my

family and various acquaintances. They are in Ohio, SC and NC.

[InvisibleBallots]

33. I read the Left Behind books

well, I read the first one and half of the second. The first was a pretty good read. I know a number of Republicans, but no one that "raves" over Bush, in fact, basically everyone that I have ever talked to has had mostly criticism for him. I do not own a car, but I have listened to some Toby Keith songs.

In fact, aside from the anti-abortion movement, I don't really think there is much to this fundie scare. I believe it's meant as a distraction. Rushdooney sold a tiny number of books, even for Christian publications, and probably 99.99% of people who voted for Bush have no clue who he is, nor do they want ancient Jewish law enforced by gunpoint in the US.

However, it's easy to get liberals and Democrats riled up with stories about the fundies - exactly the way it's easy to get cons and Pukes riled up with stories of athiest homosexuals at the ACLU. It's a great fundraiser for both sides, and it keeps everyone's attention focused on something besides General Electic, Walmart, ClearChannel, etc. I fully expect Social Security to be quietly privatized while America is in the throes of yet another concocted fight over "social issues".

[Lydia Leftcoast]

34. I know two men, high school classmates of my brothers, who

are Dominionists. One of them, in fact, is an attorney for a variety of right-wing causes.

However, most evangelicals are not into this stuff. Evangelicalism is a huge movement, characterized by emphasis on the "born again" experience, and what happens after that can take a variety of forms: involvement with a conservative congregation in an otherwise liberal mainstream denomination, joining a liberal congregation in an otherwise conservative denomination, avoiding politics, getting very involved in politics, joining a fundamentalist church, joining a Pentecostal church, starting one's own church...You name it.

[NAO]

39. Dominionism is a matter of public record - easily verified

There have been several scholarly works on the topic, most notably Sara Diamond's books, "Roads to Dominion", "Not by Politics Alone", "Spiritual Warfare" and "Facing the Wrath".

Then there are the fine essays on The Yurica Report, which are heavily documented with references to primary sources of Dominionist thought.

http://theyuricareport.com

The Despoiling of America
http://theyuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

Articles Revealing the Rise of Dominionism in America
http://theyuricareport.com/Dominionism/DirectoryRiseOfDominionismInAmerica.html

This is no joke or no mere diversionary tactic to keep us from seeing "the real agenda". These people are dead serious and this IS their real agenda.

[dobegrrrl]

41. They are EVERYWHERE

but I think most are in the South. I live in VA, just a few miles from Pat Robertson's university (Regent). I have a cousin in TN who tried to persuade my Mom to turn to bush before she died. (One of the last things my Mom did before she passed in Nov. was vote for Kerry.) My cousin told her there were so many good Xtian people who support bush, that if she supported him, they would pray for her and she would be healed. Sick, huh? There people really believe it too - so sad.

[UTDemocrat8204]

58. It is truly sick

and sad how blind the people are to Bush and his ways. Have you tried telling your sister about PNAC and Bush's involvement with that? Try sometime showing her a movie on Hitler and then a movie of Bush.

[bush_is_wacko]

42. I live near a city that has a 4000 member church full of them!

Of course they call themselves "non-denominational" and claim they just want to make the world a better place. In recent years this same city has sprouted MANY of these churches! My experience is that these people are some of the rudest and most judgmental people I've ever had the displeasure to be around. They feel completely entitled to EVERYTHING and if they don't recognize you as a member, they will first try and recruit you, but if you refuse, they will target you! these people spend almost every day of their lives involved in Church activity! they attend seminars, have concerts, etc. etc. My husband and I went to see "The Passion" at a local theater. The members of this church had reserved half the theater and as the theater got full REFUSED to move over a seat or two to let other people sit next to the people they came with! Their behavior is despicable! I could probably write a book about the downfall of my little area. This used to be a great place to live but these people have taken over every aspect of our lives!

[Karenina]

43. If the Dominionists dont get their triple

the Reconstructionists will step up to the plate...

http://www.politicalamazon.com/cr.html

[bush_is_wacko]

65. Couldn't of said it better myself!

That is a perfect description of what I've witnessed. How do you get them out, is what I want to know! I have thought for many years now that this church was actually a haven for the KKK. They have a "separate" campus located about 5 miles away for the Hispanic crowd. Am I imagining it, or does that sound a little like marking the drinking fountain white and black? The main church has signers at every event, you'd think they would also have Spanish interpreters if they really held no prejudice!

[UTDemocrat8204]

59. Sounds like the

"with us or against us" stuff. Heh.

[bush_is_wacko]

66. Yes, exactly!

The above website is quite accurate in it's assertions!

[bobthedrummer]

44. They tried and failed to "recruit" me in the early 1990's as a returning

adult college student. I always thought the Rapture crowd was a cult.

[crasmane]

49. I knew one, but she alienated me totally about 2 years ago.

Frankly, I'm relieved to be rid of her.
She was efficient and scary.

[UTDemocrat8204]

60. I used to be

involved in Christian music for a while and once was going to enter this contest someone was running. It was this girl in her late teen's or early twenties running it for her own company or whatever. I got to talking to her and made the mistake of telling her I had some psychic abilities and she started really going off on me saying I was of Satan and evil and stuff. :scared: Luckily I don't talk to her anymore. I still write music dealing with my faith but just no contacts of her. Heh heh.

[seabeyond]

50. i know tons, i just was never one, so couldnt mark the first

choice. panhandle of texas. kids went to a fundie school. i know tons. and yup they talk the rapture. when talking bush screwups or anything, well not my concern i am concerned more with rapture. holding bible up saying, it is happening, nothing we can do so bush make mistake oh well. he is christian. we are all sinners. (that is only good for the christian to be forgiven with the we are all sinners. all other sinners not like them, kill em)

[UTDemocrat8204]

61. Have you noticed how

they love their guns and killing those who aren't with them? I remember in my church before the service my brother was talking to a family friend and she was an older woman and she told my brother if anybody in her neighborhood had a Kerry/Edwards sign up they would get shot. This is supposed to be a Christian woman too. :eyes: Then my cousin also was with me and my Mom on my Mom's bday coming home and we passed this house that had a Kerry/Edwards sign and she made her hand like a gun and went "bang." :wow:

[The Zanti Regent]

64. My whole family believes this crap

Yes, they believe Jesus is going to come down and pull 'em up into heaven next week.

Oh, and they're gonna leave their clothes behind, too!

[Bridget Burke]

67. Even in Texas--I'm not sure that I know any Dominionists.

I live in a fairly liberal area & work in a field that encourages knowledge of reality. However, I doubt that any Dominionists identify themselves as such. They are, indeed, the ones behind the recent politicization of religion, but they operate by stealth. Formerly, the Southern Baptists believed in separation of Church & State; that changed quite recently. And I well remember when the Texas Republicans were "taken over" by the Right Wing Religionists.

Most Fundamentalist / Evangelical Christians would be appalled if they knew the full plans of the Dominionists / Christian Reconstructionists. And any Catholics who've been sucked in really ought to learn what these people think about Papists. It's not just that the Dominionists expect the world to end--they want to take control of the US & the world first. And some of them may not really care whether or not the world ends--they're just in it for the power. And they've been very successful.

[Pegleg Thd]

68. I am related to several who are totally

hung up on the rapture theory. As one who has studied theology for over 45 years I find the entire idea of this absurd. Only a blooming idiot would believe in such crap.:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: