Will Easter be the next holiday that the right wingers claim as their own?

[GingerSnaps]

The Christian right wingnuts are trying to hijack Christmas and make it their own even tho the democratic party has Christan's in it as well. How much further will all of this nonsense go before a civil war breaks out?

Which holiday is next Easter?

[AliciaKeyedUp]

1. Given the attitude of many here

They won't have to hijack Easter, it will be handed them by the anti-religious people who want the people of faith out of the Democratic Party.

[tx_dem41]

2. I see your point, and agree with the spirit of it.

I am an atheist, but have often found myself defending religion on this forum. Just don't lump all of the "non-religion" people as "anti-religion" (which you didn't do on your post).

That said....you sure know how to start off a nice, quiet Sunday morning! Have fun in the future firefight.

[demnan]

3. Well Easter has always been a more serious religious holiday

than Christmas. I guess the Easter bunny is a secular symbol or something, but really everybody does go to church on Easter Sunday.

I don't want all the religious people out of the party, and I don't think that was what Ginger Snap was saying, exactly. Let's try to make sure we don't start equating religious people with fundie right wing extremists, or take an attack on fundie right wing extremists as an attack on all religious observers.

[GingerSnaps]

5. I go to Church and I wasn't saying that at all

Thanks for mentioning that :hug:

I wanted to know whats up on their agenda next Easter.

BTW I am sure that they will let us have Halloween.

[tx_dem41]

7. Not to speak for Alicia...she does a stellar job at doing that herself...

but, I don't think she is making a sweeping generalization in her post. She is addressing those DUers that tend to make the sweeping generalizations.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

13. Thanks and yes

Many are NOT anti-religious here. If they were, I would leave.

[RetroLounge]

22. Yawn

:eyes:

RL

[Forkboy]

39. They're such victims

Those poor people.

[Red State Rebel]

49. Touche!

Glad I'm not the only one who sees it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

53. Ahem.

[signmike]

4. Yeah, hahaha, or is it Hohoho...

they'll prolly do just like with Xmas, and try to say it's all about Jesus or somebody, instead of the egg laying Bunny. Dang, they gotta lotta nerve!


Oh, whilst I'm at it --- Happy Winter Solstice, everybody :D

[OnlyInAmerica]

6. Um...

Easter is strictly a Christian holiday. Some people may use bunnies to celebrate it, but to Christians it's more important than Christmas. It is the day that Jesus was resurrected from the dead.

[GingerSnaps]

9. It's not a right wingnut Christian holiday

We have Christians in our party as well. Since when did every Christian convert to Republicanism?

[OnlyInAmerica]

10. What I meant was

It has always been a Christian holiday. Whether you're a wing nut, moderate, or any other strain of Christian, Easter is the most important religious holiday, and it is strictly a religious holiday. Didn't mean to imply that it was strictly a far right wing nut holiday.

[quaoar]

11. Easter is indeed the most important Christian holiday

The entire foundation of Christianity is built upon Christ's crucificion and resurrection.

[Shakespeare]

15. Oh?

Then maybe you can explain to me the meaning of easter bunnies and easter chicks and easter eggs. Are you sure about that "strictly" part?

[OnlyInAmerica]

18. Bunnies and chicks

I would assume Easter bunnies and chicks are a symbol of rebirth, much like the Christian idea of Jesus' resurrection. Easter occurs at the beginning of Spring, when trees begin to get their leaves back and many facets of nature are "reborn" after being dormant throughout the Winter. For Christians of all stripes, the reason for the holiday is the promise of life after death, not Easter egg hunts and baskets of candy. However, Easter would not even be a recognized holiday were it not for the major role of Jesus' death and resurrection.

[Shakespeare]

19. Actually, they're fertility symbols.

And they were part of the pagan spring celebration. The catholic church quite deliberately attached the church's major holidays to the pagan traditions to help perpetuate their celebration. So, you've got it exactly backwards--if the church hadn't piggy-backed onto those ancient celebrations, easter and Christmas would never be celebrated on such a widespread basis.

Acknowledging that fact isn't attacking Christianity (I'm a Christian), nor is it "pop theology." And I think it's extremely important for those of us who are Christians to understand how our holidays evolved and what other ancient myths our own traditions sprang from.

[OnlyInAmerica]

20. I disagree

Easter and Christmas would be celebrated widely in America no matter what day they fell on due to the significance of those holidays in Christian religions. The majority of religious Americans and Europeans are Christians, and it would not matter to them if Christmas was on June 22 and Easter was March 10. Undoubtedly the holidays were timed to coincide with Pagan holidays to help with the assimilation of Christianity, but for Christians all of the traditions are merely window dressings on the main reason for the holidays.

[Shakespeare]

21. But you just proved my point.

And you're not looking far enough back in history to support your point. Piggy-backing those two events onto pagan celebrations was key in the spread of Christianity in the early church. Those Europeans and early Americans you speak of, at some point back in their history, were not Christians. By associating the Christian events with the pagan traditions, it made it far, far easier to spread Christianity throughout Europe.

For the past couple of hundred years it may not have mattered, as you say, that those events draw on pagan traditions, but by that time they'd already been well-established precisely because of the pagan traditions.

[OnlyInAmerica]

23. I don't think I did

At some point Pagans weren't Pagans. At some point back in our history nobody believed in any religion. I don't have a problem with the fact that some Pagan traditions were co-opted by Christianity to help spread the religion. Familiarity breeds comfort, after all, and I'd much rather a religion be spread in a peaceful manner like co-opting exisiting traditions than at the point of a sword like the Crusades or Inquisition. Why did the makers of the birth control pill put in a few days of placebo pills? So that women would still experience the menstrual cycle they'd been accustomed to for eons. A woman doesn't actually need to have a period. The developers of the pill knew that women might freak out and avoid the pill if they didn't have a period, so they "co-opted" the menstrual cycle to help market their innovation.

[Shakespeare]

24. Wow, you are completely uneducated on a number of topics.

Women don't "freak out" if they miss a period--our bodies NEED to have that cycle. Do you really not know that? You think we don't "need" periods?

First of all, not all birth control pills contain a placebo regimen. Some are varying doses of hormones.

Second, the ones that do contain placebos don't do so to keep women from "freaking out" about their periods. Without purging that uterine lining every month, a woman can/will develop endometriosis (which often leads to uterine cancer if untreated).

The didn't "co-opt" anything as a marketing gimmick--there's a specific medical reason that the pill works the way it does. Your lack of knowledge on this is really stunning.

[OnlyInAmerica]

37. Really? Then you may find this interesting

Apparently I'm not the only one who is uneducated

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/62/71562.htm

[Shakespeare]

41. LOL--did you bother reading the whole thing before you posted it?

Because it says essentially the same thing I said.

I mean, seriously--because this is bordering on the hilarious.

I pointed out that the pill regulates cycles NOT because women "freak out" if they miss a period, but because the uterine lining needs to be purged so that a woman doesn't develop endometriosis or, worse, uterine cancer. As the article states, skipped menstrual cycles (if one isn't pregnant) is unhealthy.

The link you posted is about a new kind of pill (the long-interval pill) that, among other potential benefits, prevents the lining from building up in the first place. It has absolutely nothing to do with the nonsense you were spouting in the previous post.

A paragraph from the link:

"For years, some doctors have been prescribing "continuous" birth control pills to treat conditions such as endometriosis, migraine, and iron-deficiency anemia. But once there is an FDA-approved long-interval pill regimen, more women will have the option to control their periods, experts say. One such pill, Seasonale, is being tested by Barr Laboratories. With Seasonale, women take the product for up to 84 consecutive days, followed by seven days of placebo. The regimen is designed to reduce the number of withdrawal periods from 13 to four per year."

psst...here's how I know so much about it: I've been on the pill since I was 17, but not for birth control. I was prescribed it to regulate my periods (I have a hormonal imbalance) so that I don't develop endometriosis.

Please. Stop trying, because you're just making yourself look sillier and sillier.

[OnlyInAmerica]

44. Hmmmm....

If I recall correctly, you did state that "Without purging that uterine lining every month, a woman can/will develop endometriosis ", however, this article would suggest that is not an accurate statement. Many medical professionals do not believe a woman needs a period every month. At any rate, I'm not a woman and have never taken the pill so I don't claim to be an expert on the matter. I simply recalled that part of the reason it was set up as it was is because women were used to monthly cycles. Perhaps I should've used a different analogy for the co-opting of familiar things to advance a cause/belief. I must say, though, that you implied I am completely uneducated on a number of topics, yet the only one you can site is the exact specifics of the birth control pill. You seized on an analogy yet failed to address the rest of my response. I'm patiently waiting to see the other areas in which i am "completely uneducated".

[Shakespeare]

45. "Hmmmmm" is right.

Here's what you said, pasted from the post:

"Why did the makers of the birth control pill put in a few days of placebo pills? So that women would still experience the menstrual cycle they'd been accustomed to for eons. A woman doesn't actually need to have a period. The developers of the pill knew that women might freak out and avoid the pill if they didn't have a period, so they "co-opted" the menstrual cycle to help market their innovation."

The developers of the pill didn't put the placebo pills in (and not all birth controls are of this particular formulation, as I've already pointed out) so that a woman wouldn't "freak out." A woman's psychological condition had absolutely nothing to do with any aspect of developing the pill. How truly bizarre to suggest it did. Not only is that statement NOT based in anything even resembling scientific fact, it's incredibly insulting. If I have to tell you why it's insulting, then you're even more clueless than I originally thought.

The article specifically states that if a woman has irregular periods,it is unhealthy. I've already gone into the reasons why it's unhealthy, so no need to repeat myself on that.

Was it a poor analogy to use? Yup. What else are you uneducated about? Well, for starters, the pagan origins/connections of some of our Christian holidays. You can continue with the cyber equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and going "LA LA LA LA LA LA" if the truth of that bothers you, but it doesn't change the truth itself.

[OnlyInAmerica]

46. When did I do that?

I agree with you that there are many Pagan origins/connections to our Christian holidays. My point is that regardless of whether the Christian holidays of Christmas and Easter were on the current dates or any other dates it wouldn't matter to Christians. They would celebrate those holidays regardless of the time of year. Had Chrisitanity not co-opted some Pagan traditions then Chrisitanity may not have as many adherents as it does now. However, that's not how history played out.

[Shakespeare]

47. sigh....back to square one

You said that we'd be celebrating those holidays now regardless of their connections to pagan celebrations. I said that no, we most likely would not, because connecting Christian events to the pagan celebrations was integral to the spread of Christianity.

Ergo, without the (familiar) pagan connections, the masses they were attempting to convert very likely wouldn't have converted. You cannot separate one from the other.

[OnlyInAmerica]

48. Sigh myself

While what you say is true, who's to say that Christianity would not have spread some other way? You can't prove a negative, so obviously we'll never know how the religion would've spread had it not tied its holidays to existing pagan traditions. I said that regardless of when the holidays were scheduled, May, August, November...whenever, current Christians would celebrate them. By the way, I want you to know that I didn't take your personal attack of "you're completely uneducated on a number of topics" personally. ;)

[Shakespeare]

51. From the post I originally responded to:

"It has always been a Christian holiday. Whether you're a wing nut, moderate, or any other strain of Christian, Easter is the most important religious holiday, and it is strictly a religious holiday."

Once again, and for the last time, no, it's not a strictly religious holiday, not a strictly Christian holiday. Its very name comes from the pagan goddess (Eoster).

[GingerSnaps]

43. The Easter bunny was created by

The bunny mother at the playboy club no i have that wrong my sister didn't create it the candy companies created it. :D

[bobbieinok]

52. very impt Christian celebration...BUT where did the bunny and eggs

come from???

aren't they parts of some fertility belief system?????

and haven't you noticed how commercialized Easter has become in the last 40-50 years??? even ads urging us to buy Easter presents for adults

[beyurslf]

8. They can have Easter. It is kind of like Valentine's Day to me

Not a real holiday.

Christmas is celebrated by people of all sorts of faiths (and no faiths) for many different reasons.

[quaoar]

12. The right-wingers are not trying to take over Christmas

They are looking for yet another wedge issue -- and the low-hanging fruit is Christmas. They are trying to scare the electorate into thinking that the evil atheist socialist Democrats are trying to take away their Christmas trees and make them stop saying Merry Christmas and make their children stop singing Silent Night at the school Christmas pageant.

And they succeed because there really are people -- quite a few right here on DU -- who would like to see that come about.

The Republicans want to use Christmas as another example of how they represent traditional American values and Democrats are somewhere off in the ozone. And we merrily give them plenty of ammo to do just that.

[ikojo]

14. Easter IS the foundational holiday of Christianity

Ins't the promise of death followed by resurrection what Christianity is all about?

I can totally see the hard right fundies getting their knickers all in a bunch over the Easter bunny and such.

What many fundies fail to realize is that for many years, in the US, Christmas was not a holiday and was a day of excessive drinking and carousing.

[maxsolomon]

16. it was called Oestara or something

i'm only an ignorant pantheist, but can some neo-druid clue us in?

once again a pre-existing holiday was co-opted by the roman empire/roman church.

the bunnies & chicks are what it was about for the druids: SPRING, not DEATH & GUILT.

for some christians, the death & resurrection are NOT what it was all about. it is a creed by which to lead your life, demanding agape, unconditional love, even for those who hate you. but those people are heretics.

his death & rebirth are not central to HIS message, but were essential to SOME of his early follower's message. unfortunately, those who espoused the importance of the resurrection won out as their beliefs served constantine's purpose the best.

the gospel of thomas contains no crucifixion.

[Cheswick2.0]

17. The Resurection is central to his message

It is his message.

Any other idea is pop theology of the internet kind.

[kayell]

26. Strange, I thought THIS was central to Jesus's message

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.....

But hey, I must have just missed all those red entries in the KJV where he talked about resurrection being his central message.

[Cheswick2.0]

29. that is a very important message, however

Christianity is all about the resurrection. Just ask a Christian. All the rest is important but would be meaningless without the promise of life after death.

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

when asked what was the most important commandment Jesus answered first to love God and only second to love man. We are promised a life in heaven when we will see clearly. None of that happens without the sacrifice and resurrection of Christ.

[Walt Starr]

28. Um, celebrations in the Spring are as old as humankind

and are not owned by any single religion.

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/religion/blrel_hol_spring.htm

The pagan roots of Easter can be located in the celebration of the Spring Equinox, a date that has been treated as an important holiday by many different religions and for many millennia. Occurring every year on March 20, 21, or 22, the Spring Equinox marks the end of winter and the beginning of spring. Biologically and well as culturally, this date represents for cultures in northern climates the end of a "dead" season and the rebirth of life, as well as the importance of fertility and reproduction.

As a matter of fact, celebrating the beginning of Spring may be among the oldest seasonal holidays in human culture. The earliest reference we have to such a holiday comes to us from Babylon, 2400 BCE. The city of Ur apparently had a celebration dedicated to the moon and the Spring equinox which was held some time during our months of March or April. On the spring equinox Zoroastrians continue to celebrate "No Ruz," the new day or New Year. This date is commemorated by the last remaining Zoroastrians and probably constitutes the oldest celebration in the history of the world.

It is believed that the Jews derived their Spring equinox celebrations, the Feast of Weeks and Passover, in part from this Babylonian holiday during the period when so many Jews were held captive by the Babylonian empire. It seems very possible that the Babylonians were the first, or at least among the first, civilization to use the equinoxes as important turning points in the year.

Most cultures around the Mediterranean are believed to have had their own spring festivals: whereas in the north the vernal equinox is a time for planting, around the Mediterranean the vernal equinox is a time when the summer crops begin to sprout. This is an important sign of why it has always been a celebration of new life and a triumph of life over death.

<snip>

More at the link.

[Cheswick2.0]

31. ummmmmmmmm... none of that has anything to do with Christ's message

and it is pop theology. I am not going to go to Atheism.com to get information about my religion. I can read five different theories right on this very thread about the origins of the word Easter. Which one is right?
None of it is about Christianity.

[Walt Starr]

33. Awwww, so anything that doesn't fit into your religious beliefs

is "pop theology".

Argumentum ad verecundiam.

[Cheswick2.0]

35. no... anything cut and pasted from an internet sight

which is pop theology is pop theology.

[Walt Starr]

36. Ahhh, so here's some stuff cut and pasted from a "pop theology" internet

site:

Matthew 28
The Resurrection
1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.

3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.

4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.

5 The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified.

6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay.

7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.’ Now I have told you.”

http://biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=28&version=31

[Cheswick2.0]

38. this is ridiculous Walt

I am not posting from the bible gateway to prove that you should believe in God. You are the one who has a need to prove you are right. I am simply telling you that Atheist.com is not a reliable source for theology of Christianity.

And I did not say that everything posted on the internet is pop theology. Clearly retyping verse from the bible is not theology at all anymore than retyping sections of Grapes of Wrath is a Critical analysis of the Depression.

IF you want to continue this you are going to have to talk to yourself.

[Walt Starr]

40. Sorry, but you implied it

and I was posting FACTUAL DATA regarding the spring celebrations throughout time, whether you choose to regard it as "pop theology" or regard it as what it is, anthropology.

And it wasn't "atheism.com" that I quoted. It was about.com. The server the data related to this abthropological entry in about.com is named atheism.

Reading text fully as well as reading URLs fully reveal a lot of information. I highly recommend the practice.

[Walt Starr]

27. Eostar

Meaning "before Ostara". This is the Spring Equinox.

Ostara is the first full moon after the Spring Equinox.

Eostar through Ostara is a time for celebrating the rebirth of Mother Earth after the winter.

[disillusioned1]

30. You're absolutely right

I don't remember the exact spelling, but it was very close to estrogen, egg, etc. It was actually a fertility celebration.

As I've said in other threads, Easter is determined every year by the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Spring Equinox. This full moon is called the Paschal moon. That's why Easter moves every year.

Here is the "hare constellation". That's where the bunny comes from.

[disillusioned1]

32. Here's another thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=176785&mesg_id=179802

Here's the calendar showing moon phases:
http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=2005&country=1

This shows when Easter 2005 is scheduled:
http://www.holidays.net/easter/eadates.htm

Easter 2005
Ash Wednesday is 9 February
Palm Sunday is 20 March
Good Friday is 25 March
(Western) Easter Sunday is 27 March

So...
Spring Equinox is March 21st. That never changes.
First Full Moon after the Spring Equinox is March 25th.
The first Sunday after the full moon is March 27th, which is Easter!

I've found very few Christians who realize that their high holiday is set by the moon phase.

Here's more. The name of that full moon is called the Paschal moon.

...

Easter is the Sunday after the Paschal Full Moon. The Paschal Full Moon may occur from March 21 through April 18, inclusive. Thus the date of Easter is from March 22 through April 25, inclusive. The date of the Paschal full moon is determined from tables, and it may differ from the date of the the actual full moon by up to two days. This definition, along with tables, etc. may be found in "The Explanatory Supplement to the Astronomical Ephemeris and American Ephemeris and Nautical Almanac". This definition that uses tables instead of actual observations of the full moon is useful and necessary since the the full moon may occur on different (local, not UT) dates depending where you are in the world. If the date of Easter was based on local observations, then it would be possible for different parts of the world to celebrate Easter on different dates in the same year.

...

http://www.smart.net/~mmontes/ec-cal.html

[Walt Starr]

34. Yes, Easter is tied to moon phases

Most prefer to ignore that, just as most prefer to ignore Pagan symbolism contained in a high holy day of their faith (as is also the case with Christmas).

[GingerSnaps]

42. Two like minds

How did that happen on DU I guess because most of us are open minded? :D

[IHeart1993]

25. New Year's!

Right after Christmas, Faux will launch a seris of reports of "New Years Under Siege"

[maxsolomon]

50. The Gospel of Thomas is NOT "Pop Theology"

its from the Nag Hammadi library, and its as old, or older, than any of the 4 gospels or the books that follow it in the bible.

it may be a gnostic text, but that doesn't mean you can dismiss it outright.

it is fully possible to believe in the central message of christ (do unto others...) without believing in the resurrection or its ascribed meaning. just ask Thomas Jefferson.

But you are right on this point: that makes you a Deist or other variant, not a Christian per se.