Lemme Get This Straight: 56% of Americans NOW Think IRAQ Was a Mistake?!

[liberalpragmatist]

Sorry if I'm not a little bit pissed at the American general public. Fault Kerry all you want (I agree he should have come out against the war sooner), but at the debates, and in the final two months, he quite aggressively argued that Iraq had made us less safe, that it was a mistake to go in, and that Bush and Rumsfeld were botching any chance of success with their unbelievably incompetent leadership.

And yet, the exit polls indicated that Americans, by a narrow margin on Nov. 2 said that going to war in Iraq was "not a mistake."

Polls did showed that virtually all the voters who named "Iraq" as a key issue and felt it was making us less safe voted for Kerry. But most others said they were concerned about "terrorism" lumping it in with Iraq and declaring that Bush would "keep them safer."

Sorry if I feel a bit like telling all those people they got what they paid for. They had the opportunity to cast these guys out. A golden opportunity.

Sorry if I'm a bit pissed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14266-2004Dec20.html

Most Americans now believe the war with Iraq was not worth fighting and more than half want to fire embattled Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, the chief architect of that conflict, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll.

The survey found that 56 percent of the country now believes that the cost of the conflict in Iraq outweighs the benefits, while 42 percent disagreed. It marked the first time since the war began that a clear majority of Americans have judged the war to have been a mistake.

<snip>

Barely a third of the country approves of the job that Rumsfeld is doing as defense secretary, and 52 percent said President Bush should sack Rumsfeld, a view shared by a big majority of Democrats and political independents.

<snip>

The political fallout over the continuing bloody chaos in Iraq clearly is taking its toll on President Bush, who today strongly defended Rumsfeld in a press conference. Bush's overall job approval stood at 48 percent while 49 percent disapproved of his performance as president. Nearly six in 10 -- 57 percent -- say they disapprove of the way the president has handled the situation in Iraq.

***

So, what, is this b/c Republicans are now coming out of their blind cultlike embrace of Bush? Or were they lying to the posters all along and only are now telling the truth?

Or were they just so blind to facts that they refused to believe anything Kerry, or Edwards, or Dean, or Clark or any of the Democrats, or even Hagel, and Lugar, and tons of military generals and Iraq War veterans said, dismissing it all as campaign fodder with no basis in truth?

Are they happy now? Are they *shocked* to realize that maybe Kerry and the rest of those guys were - GASP! telling the truth?!

[johncoby2]

1. We live in DumbF***ahstan

with a population of 59 million mullet heads.

(sorry if I offended any DU mullets)

[liberalpragmatist]

2. Unfortunately, 62 million

According to the most updated totals.

One good sign for us though is that the final margin shows Bush's popular vote margin closer to 2 than 3: 2.45%

[LynnTheDem]

3. 100,000+ people are DEAD, incl 1300+ of our American men, women & kids.

God only knows how many are sick, wounded, maimed for life.

We are less safe now, and even bush admin reports say so.

We've spent $200+ BILLION with another $100 BILLION spent before 2005 is done, guaranteed...and we won't be stopping any year soon.

ALL FOR A TOTAL PACK OF LIES that half of America and ALL the entire world KNEW was a pack of total lies BEFORE bush waged his war of aggression.

WHY should you be SORRY you're pissed???

[Radical Activist]

4. Kerry didn't say he would get us out of Iraq any faster

than Bush. That's what happens we you don't provide a clear choice and alternative.

[liberalpragmatist]

5. Well, to be fair, we're between a rock and a hard place

Kerry didn't advocate full withdrawal because at least at this point it would probably be irresponsible. That's what makes me so mad about this whole damn war. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. Kerry did say he would try to get US troops out within 6 months, but he said that could only happen as a best-case scenario.

Honestly, I don't know what to do. And the truth is nobody does. If we just pull out right now there'll be massive civil war, secession, and the end-result will likely be a Turkish-occupied Kurdistan and an theocratic Islamic regime in Baghdad with ties to anti-American terrorist groups. Not to mention sky high gas prices and hundreds of thousands dead.

If we stay we're only furthering resentment against us, inflicting casualties and seeing more and more soldiers die, and making it tougher to stabilize the country.

It's completely f*cked.

[LynnTheDem]

8. IMO, this entire "massive civil war" meme is total propaganda.

There was no massive civil war of any kind when the Iraqis forced the UK out of Iraq.

The vast majority of Iraqis themselves say the "massive civil war" meme is total bullshit propaganda.

The "Sunni-Shia divide" is bullshit. They marry each other. They go to the same mosques. They live in the same cities. They worked together, including in Saddam Hussein's government.

I'll stand by history, and by what the Iraqis themselves say (and Juan Cole, one of THE top experts on Iraq); the idea of a civil war in Iraq between Sunni & Shia if we pulled out is only bushCartel propaganda bullshit excuse in order to keep troops in Iraq.

****

And assuming against their history and against their own words on the subject; if there would be a civil war NOW if we pulled out, then there would be a civil war FIFTY YEARS from now; so should we just stay forever, even tho RIGHT NOW the VAST MAJORITY of IRAQIS want us OUT?

Should we just CONTINUE to say F*CK what the Iraqis want? We should just STAY anyways and keep killing & wounding Iraqis? Keep losing our troops? Keep the hatred towards us rising?

We may have nothing but good intentions for staying in Iraq; but THE IRAQIS WANT US OUT. NOW. And THAT is all that should matter, IF we gave a damn about the people of Iraq. IMO.

[liberalpragmatist]

10. I don't think it would be between Sunnis and Shiites

It would be between Kurds and Arabs and/or between Secularists and Theocrats.

And frankly, I do think we should pull out after the elections. Once a new Iraqi govt. is elected, my guess is they'll ask us to leave and we should. In fact, we should probably leave after the elections even if they don't ask us to.

[LynnTheDem]

11. Between Turkey & the Kurds, possibly.

As they've been doing for decades.

NOT our business though; the Iraqis want us gone, and gone is what we should be.

We won't leave after the "elections", assuming they even take place. bush and Cartel have just stated we'll be at least another 4 years in Iraq.

The Iraqis want us out. NOW. They also know bushCartel just said we'd be in Iraq at least another 4 years. And the escalating violance would suggest they're not happy about it.

[jonnyblitz]

6. no kidding! great post!!

as a matter of fact I was just ranting (very loudly) to my sister about this very same thing earlier today, basically what you wrote but not as coherent. :thumbsup:

[Malva Zebrina]

7. the Iraq invasion was the biggest issue during this campaign

and the issue that could have brought Bush down, uncerimoniously, if only one person was willing to9 call him on it and bring to the forefront all the horror he caused with his multiple lies.

It was NOT done and further, those candidates, Kerry/Edwards actually voted on the IWR and put themselves into an undefensible position, so out of necesseity, they had to avoid that.

Oh the humanity. HOw many have been murdered and killed because of it. How many CHILDREN had their heads blown off?]

All because a candidate was NOT electable unless he pandered to the vaunted "presidency" and respected the "presidency"?

All because a candidate was too cautious and played that game, at the cost of thousands upon thousands of innocent lives. Ironically, it was the same candidate that stood before the congress to decry the Vietnam atrocities.

Enough!

Enough of this.

Are none of them any longer caring or compassionate human beings who are shamed by the actions of an insane, egotistical man whose motive is obviously to promote himself as a war president, to establish a legacy of utter destruction, not only in the entire world but in his own country, in order to rule the world?

I say enough. I am weary of them all and their belt way games, all who seem to me to be nothing more than cheap scam artists, pulling the wool over the eyes of the people, quite comfortable in their little congressional offices, playing the game and not the least bit concerned except when it is safe to be perceived as being so.

None seem to be willing to save this country from Bush and his fascism, his murders, his treasonous actions, and it is indeed, shameful.

[BeFree]

12. Know how you feel

It does seem no one has the gumption to tell the American-sumer the truth.

But imagine what would happen to anyone of any position who dares tell the truth? Just look at Jimmy Carter. He began to lay it on the line and he was summarily voted out of office. Don't think the major politicos didn't notice how that deal went down.

There are people who are working to reveal the truth, but just a bit at a time is all they can afford if they are to remain in any kind of position to get things done.

Still, things do seem to be collapsing at a rate our future can ill afford. But the real blame must be set at the feet of those truly responsible: Our own brothers and sisters. They should be informed, they should not support the kind of politicians that lie to us, but they do.

One reason the truth tellers do not last long is that we who know are not united in our actions. Kerry was as good as a leader as we are likely to see, and yet we failed to come together and give him our unified support, so now we have to put up with B*** for a while longer. That sucks, and it didn't have to happen. We could, had we just come togeteher with one mighty voice, overturned the stolen election.

We have failed. It is our fault. We get the leaders we deserve.

[proud patriot]

9. two words Gray Davis

he won re-election then was quickly rejected,
it can happen to bush too .

[AP]

13. Here's the thing about Iraq and war:

The more scared people were, the more likely they would vote for Bush. That's just how fascism works.

The other half of it is that you have to convince people that Iraq was a mess AND you also have to convince people Bush is to blame. Now a problem is that part of the trick of arguing that Iraq is a mess is that you're also implying that things are dangerous, which builds up the fear of terrorisim, which helps Bush.

Last ten days of election: missing explosives + missing OBL = terror, right? People were scared.

Implicitly, somebody has fucked up if those two things have happened, but if it's just works to scare people, then it doesn't help Dems. PLUS, if nobody in the media is blaming Bush, then you really have a problem. You've basically spent a lot of time and energy helping Bush solidify his support among scared people.

This is why it's so hard to only talk about war all the time and beat people who live off fear.

I think the strategy should have been to tell people over and over again that they only should have feared fear, and that the best way for America to be strong and safe is to make sure that each individual American is strong and safe, and employed, creating wealth for society, and was happy and wise, and that any Republican who told you that you needed to expect less wasn't doing so to keep America safe.