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Probelms in Iraq? Perle says it is Clinton's fault.

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Willy Lee Donating Member (925 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:37 AM
Original message
Probelms in Iraq? Perle says it is Clinton's fault.
Sorry I have no link- heard him (Perle) interviewed on NPR this mroning regarding Rumsfeld's "catastrophic success" in Iraq. His take on it- we only had 1 year to prepare before the war came, and we had to work with Clinton's army. Clearly 1 year is not enough time to prepare the army WE wanted.

So many outrageous statements it was hard to keep my jaw from dropping. Did anyone else hear this?
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. the army did a great job
The army did a great job in toppling Saddam... the problem has come in keeping the peace. What a crock of shit.

Next thing, they'll be blaming Christ's crucifixion on Clinton.
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. Wow never saw that
coming, completely out of left field.
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Paleocon Donating Member (422 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. Perle is an evil pig of a human being...
If anyone is responsible for the shape our army is in it is he and the cabal that he hangs out with...
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
4. Will the ever stop blaming Clinton.
After 11/2 any problems in this country are no longer linked to Clinton.
This nation made it clear on 11/2 that they believed in what the shrub was doing to this country and world and by doing so exonerated Bill Clinton from any connection to problems, foreign or domestic.
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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. Well of course its Clinton's fault
How could our great and exalted leader (bush) ever be wrong? Oh shit, I haven't had breakfast yet, I better stop that kind of talk before I lose my appetite entirely.
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Kellanved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. seems to be a "new" spin
A quick google news search found several pieces using that line, ranging from very conservative to extremely right-wing.

It goes like "Clinton expanded social spending and regarded the military as slush..." in about half the articles and slightly less fiction-laden in the other half.
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koopie57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
7. what is this crap about
"the war came" ... there wouldn't have been a war if it were not for this administrations greed
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Willy Lee Donating Member (925 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. My feelings exactly. It is THEIR war, not Clinton's.
Perle implying that it was not their CHOICE to go to war (it was), they didn't pick WHEN it would happen (they did), therefor it is not Rumsfeld's fault that the troops were sent unprepared (it is).

Will this madness ever end? It is doublethink.
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colonel odis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
8. would that be the clinton on whose watch the military developed
the sophisticated weaponry they used in the iraq war?

of course they had clinton's army, probably the scariest and most powerful fighting force in history.

in their hubris, this administration simply thought people would throw flowers instead of homemade bombs at them.

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freestyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
9. Shouldn't this part-time American be in jail right now
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 09:33 AM by freestyle
I remember something sbout shady dealings with an English company headed by someone named Conrad Black. Also, even though the NPR host said he works for the American Enterprise Institute, they neglected to mention that he is only a part time American. Hypocrisy knows no bounds.

On edit: Conrad Black is actually a Canadian who somehow ended up with a British Lordship and stole from Hollinger International, which is an American company substantially owned by one of Black's Canadian holding companies that owns newspapers around the world. Tangled web anyone? Black is accused of stealing in the neighborhood of $400 million. Perle's take was allegedly around $5 million. Perle does own a home in Provence and spends much time there, while doing the ritual France bashing that has become de rigeur among neocons.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. But according to Chimpy and Rummy, they had the best
equipped and most efficient modern army ever! That is why they won. And with Clinton's Army!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Deleted message
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. I gather you support the war?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Deleted message
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. No, the problem is presenting pure b.s. as fact such as you are doing
with your assertions.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Deleted message
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Your posts have an interesting slant.
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 09:24 AM by saracat
You appear quite supportive of the current administration.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Deleted message
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Using lies to attack a former President is supporting your country?
HA! :nopity:
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Supporting "your country" by distorting history and ignoring it's faults
is like supporting your children by ignoring everything they do wrong and never disciplining them.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. What do you think of the current administration?
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 09:32 AM by saracat
And is it your country right or wrong? Is it not patriotic to disapprove of the war? Is that not supporting your country? And what is so great about this war? Or this leadership?
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. But you aren't using facts
You are using right-wing propaganda when you claim the military reductions started under Clinton. That's simply NOT TRUE.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. Sorry, but what I believe is FACT, what you believe is not.
They can't both be fact, and an honest look at what actually happened over the past 20 years or so, reveals that what I am stating is fact, and what you are stating is tripe.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #20
34. Now just WHY would you support us invading & occupying a nation that
had done NOTHING WHATSOEVER to us. Or to anyone else?

The WMD that haven't existed since the early 1990s?

The ties to the 911 attacks that Iraq had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with?

The world support for the invasion that the vast world majority OPPOSED?

The "humanitarian intervention" that the vast majority of Americans, plus the International Red Cross, Amnesty Int., and Human Rights Watch all deem as NOT a humanitarian intervention due to no atrocities occurring in the past decade?

Or do you just like America being responsible for the deaths of 100,000+ Iraqi civilians, mostly women & kids?
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #34
48. I see he is no longer with us! LOL!
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. So I won't be getting an answer to my Q?
I think I can guess what the answer was anyhoo..."60%". ;)
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. And he didn't answer mine either! Sniff, sniff.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Well how WUDE!
Ain't that just like a RW nut, leaving without answering! :D
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Because they can't!
:)
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Ufour20 Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. They need the argument
They live on the argument, not the answer. While we are discussing the deatils of a subject, they talk of the generalities. Their faith is too weak to survive without a demon constantly to pursecute in their heads.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #17
30. Yes, and Saddam is a man of his word
:eyes:
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #30
42. Well he was when he said, for 10 years, that Iraq DID NOT have WMD left.
It was BUSH who lied his ass off.

Hussein did think world opposition to bushCartel's illegal invasion would stop the invasion. Unfortunately for 1400 dead/50,000 sick & wounded soldiers and 100,000+ dead & god only knows how many sick & wounded Iraqi civilians, Hussein was wrong; bush simply ignored massive world majority opposition and invaded anyways.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. I totally agree
I just thought it interesting that the poster blaming Clinton would also believe anything Hussein says. The right-wing will use anything as long as long as they can make Clinton look bad. Grrr..... Clinton didn't get us into this collassal mess, Bush did, and we must not let the right-wing get away with trying to pass the buck onto Clinton.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Read that poster's other posts on DU.
As you said, the rightwing will use anything to make Clinton look bad.

BUSH was in office for 9 mths, yet BUSH isn't responsible for 911.

CLINTON was in office for 5 WEEKS, yet CLINTON is responsible for the Cole attacks.

BUSH ordered US troops into an illegal unjust immoral war of aggresion against a nation that had not done anything to us or anyone else, using a pile of lies and deceit to do so...yet that's CLINTON'S fault.

But there's no reasoning with rightwingnuts; they have no brains, so they can't be reasoned with. Let's just send them to Iraq to die for their bush-god's bullshit.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #45
49. Looks like he got tombstombed
:evilgrin:
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. Drats...
That one was just a humongous bit too obvious.

:evilgrin:
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #17
41. We didn't have to go to war when we did.
In fact we didn't have to go to war at all. Bush picked the fight and Bush picked the place. If we didn't have what we needed why did we go to war? All along these idiots have been saying things like 'we'll go it alone' and 'bring it on'. They sold this war as a cake walk to the American people. Now it's three years later and these assholes are trying to blame Clinton for their poor planning, ignorance and hasty rush into a war we didn't even have to fight. Only someone as stupid as Bush would buy this excuse.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. The military budget was NEVER 'cut'...although the first Bush admin...
...started a series of base-closings in order to cut down on duplicate and triplicate services.

Some RWingers would suggest that not supporting the early deployment of 'starwars' as cutting the Pentagon budget. The Zell Miller's would tell you that not buying every piece of equipment offered by defense contractors was tantamount to cutting the military budget.

But there was never any significant cuts during the 90s. That's a lie perpetuated by Republicans that want to claim the mantle of Defender of the US by throwing money at every aspect of the military EXCEPT the troops.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Let's also not forget who wrote and voted on the budget
(including the military) THE REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED CONGRESS.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. The cuts started when Reagan was still in office, don't give me that crap
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 09:09 AM by ET Awful
Base closures started while Poppy Bush was in office.

The cuts that took place in the 90's were, in large part, initiated by Dick Cheney, and were, in reality, refusals to continue spending, or increase spending.

How much quicker we could have responded in Afghanistan? Ummmm, we rersponded pretty damned quickly. I'm not sure which planet you were on at the time, but the military was ready to go instantly.

You might want to study some facts instead of propaganda.

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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. BINGO!
The right is trying to create yet another myth by destorting the facts on this issue, we must not let them! The reductions started under Reagan and continued under Bush Sr. as the massive spending under the cold war was no longer needed. Sheesh, these people must think we are really stupid to not remember something that happened less than 15 years ago. :eyes:
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:19 AM
Original message
I was in the military at the time, I tended to pay attention to things
like that.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. The reductions started long before 1993
Military reductions started under Bush Sr., long before 1993, as the massive spending under the cold war was no longer needed.
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. Attribute cuts to post-Cold "Peace Dividend"
Cuts still need to be made on lots of "Black Works" projects and Star wars. Our military wastes more money than any other sector of Government. The military was in fine shape to protect us but not to illegally occupy a country and have presence in 60 other countries. We can't afford to protect corporate interests around the world especially if they do not pay taxes here.
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davidwhite0570 Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
28. I was in the military in the 90's.......we had no problem
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 09:24 AM by davidwhite0570
doing our mission......even with the cuts.....we were taught to adapt and overcome....its just an excuse for the top dogs these days to cover their butts.....pitiful.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #11
43. Since you're so fond of facts
The attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon were on September 11. The US began bombing Afghanistan on October 7, less than four weeks later. I don't think that a bigger military budget during the Nineties would have made the pace of international diplomacy leading up to the military campaign work any faster. And the decision not to commit major US ground forces and instead rely on Afghan "allies" to do most of the fighting was a political one, not a military one because of a shortage of troops.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #11
47. The Gingrich GOP controlled congress cut all those military budgets
Clinton simply signed them.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
12. I was wondering when they would get to that. Someone has to be blamed.
And it can't be Chimpy! Clinton is their tried and true. Second term and still blaming his predecesor! Not very original are they? I had heard a rumour they were going to blame Isreal. But this is their reliable excuse!
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Willy Lee Donating Member (925 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Yes, I bet Clinton is responsible for all of the torture that is going on.
Torture of "prisoners" who have yet to see a courtroom and have their guilt (or innocence) verified.

Democracy Bush style- guilty until proven innocent. Way to win the hearts and minds, guys.

When I think of all of the enemies of the U.S. we are creating daily, it is a scary scary situation.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
26. Except it was RUMMY who was cutting the US military and RUMMY who STILL
wants to cut the US military.

And then there's that wee FACT that we never had to, and never should have, invaded Iraq in the first place. It was BUSH who decided to lie this nation into invasion & occupation and Iraqmire.

And then there's the FACT that it was BUSH who kicked the UN weapons teams out of Iraq so he could invade; WHY didn't bush WAIT until the weapons inspectors had finished their work in the 90 days they needed? BUSH said he'd ONLY invade as a LAST RESORT; how was KICKING OUT the weapons inspectors a "LAST RESORT"???

And then there's the FACT that the PENTAGON DIDN'T BOTHER PLACING AN ORDER for more armored humvees.

And then there's the FACT that BUSH said this invasion would be a cakewalk; that we'd be greeted as "liberators", that the ENTIRE US MILITARY BRASS TOLD BUSH what would happen is exactly what has happened.

And then there's the FACT that poppa Bush called it right 12 years ago, when he explained why he didn't go into Iraq to effect (illegal) regime change.

And then there's the FACT that BUSH disregarded EVERY PLAN for the invasion; EVERY PLAN for the occupation, and EVERY PLAN for contingency of rebel insurgency.

BUSH IS RESPONSIBLE. PERIOD.

Rightwingnuts don't like that FACT?

TOUGH. GET OVER IT.

YOUR boy's war. YOUR boy's fuck-up.
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Willy Lee Donating Member (925 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #26
39. Good one. Hard to argue with the facts! eom
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 09:29 AM by Willy Lee
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
27. The traitorous Likud spy Perle will never get over the fact that Clinton..
....rejected the PNAC plan when they offered it to him in 1998, which made it neccessary for them to run a brainless chimp as their puppet frontman.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
61. Someone posted on another post that Perle use to be a registered Democrat
do you know if that is true?
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susu369 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
40. Perle is the turd that won't flush
Evil man. Period.
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flobee1kenobi Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #40
46. How much quicker we could have responded in Afghanistan?
Probably a lot quicker if we hadn't had to pull troops to go fight in Iraq
At the start of the Iraq war-Rummy stated we had the best army in the world
We did-an army that was put together on 8 years of Clintons watch.
The army we have now after 4 years of Bush-The one that can't keep the peace, is Shrubs army
A lot of them are Reserve units because the tour of duty of the Clinton army has come to an end.
Clinton, Bush1, regan no longer have A N Y rellevance to what is going on right now.
Could Clintons army have been better? mabey- but whats the point?
We had the best in the world- no one even close.
When Bushco tries to lay the blame for this nightmare we are in now at the feet of Clinton-he becomes an asshole and a coward in my book.
Did Clinton declare "mission accomplished"?
Did Clinton say that they would throw flowers at our feet?
NO-BUSH and RUMMY did!
and that is where the blame lies
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Bush was AWOL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
50. I didn't know you could prepare an Army for occupation of another country
Hey Perle, that's why the job isn't getting done in Iraq! You can't occupy a Muslim Nation. Get a clue moron!
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Bush was AWOL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
51. Read this in Re: to who reduced the size of the military Post Cold War
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 12:10 PM by Bush was AWOL
Post-Cold War Defense Spending Cuts: A Bipartisan Decision

Steven Kosiak & Elizabeth Heeter Published 08/31/2000
Highlight
The question of who is responsible for the substantial reductions in defense spending that occurred in the 1990s has arisen as an issue in the 2000 presidential campaign. A strong case can be made that these cuts were an appropriate response to the end of the Cold War and efforts to bring the federal deficit under control. But, more importantly, whatever the merits of the defense drawdown of the 1990s, one thing is clear: the decision to cut the defense budget, and to do so relatively deeply, was very much a bipartisan decision. Among other things, CSBA finds that:

The post-Cold War decline in defense spending began during the Bush Administration.
There is almost no difference between the level of funding proposed for defense by President Bush in his last fiscal year (FY) 1994-99 budget plan and the level of funding actually provided for defense over this six-year period under the Clinton Administration. Both Bush planned funding and actual funding amounted to $1.72 trillion (in FY 2001 dollars).
Congressional add-ons since 1995, when the Republican Party gained control of both houses, account for only about 3 percent of the defense topline of the past six years.
Not only was the drawdown of the 1990s clearly a bipartisan affair, the best available evidence suggests that Democrats and Republicans are still remarkably close in terms of their support for defense spending. Under the latest Clinton Administration plan, funding for defense is projected to remain essentially flat in real (inflation-adjusted) terms through fiscal year (FY) 2005. The latest Congressional Budget Resolution (CBR) would provide only about one-third of 1 percent more over this period. In reality, the effectiveness with which the Department of Defense (DoD) is able to address US security challenges in the future is likely to depend much more on how wisely DoD spends than how much it spends.
Cuts Began During Bush Administration
Funding for national defense declined by about 16.9 percent between the last Reagan Administration defense budget (FY 1989) and the last Bush Administration budget (FY 1993). These were the deepest cuts of the post-Cold War period. To be sure, the depth of these reductions owed much to the actions of the then Democratic-controlled Congress. However, the Democratic Congress was hardly acting alone: all but the very first of the Bush budget submissions called for cutting defense spending.
By comparison, under the Clinton Administration, funding for defense declined by about 13.1 percent between FY 1993 and FY 1998, when funding for defense bottomed out, and has risen 6-7 percent since then. The actions of the now Republican-controlled Congress have been partly responsible for the recent upswing in funding for defense. Like the cuts begun under the Bush Administration, the increases of the past several years owe something to the actions of both Congress and the Clinton Administration.

Little Difference Between Last Bush Plan and Actual Spending
In January 1993 just before leaving office, President Bush presented the FY 1994-99 defense plan that he would have submitted to Congress had he been reelected. Under this plan, funding for DoD was projected to decline in real terms by some 19 percent over the FY 1992-97 period and then stay flat at that level through FY 1999. By comparison, under the Clinton Administration, DoD funding actually declined by about 18 percent between FY 1992 and FY 1997. Moreover, while actual funding fell by another 2 percent in FY 1998, it then grew by 5.6 percent in FY 1999. Thus, the FY 1999 budget was actually about 15 percent below the FY 1992 level, compared to a projected 19 percent reduction under the last Bush plan.

A year-by-year comparison of projected funding under the last Bush plan and actual funding levels confirms that the United States ended up spending almost exactly the same amount under Clinton as recommended in the last Bush budget for the FY 1994-99 period, a total of $1.72 trillion (in FY 2001 dollars).

Congress Added 3 Percent to Clinton Budgets
To some extent comparing actual funding for defense with the 1993 Bush plan is unfair. It is possible, for example, that had President Bush been re-elected in 1992 and been succeeded by another Republican president, his original plan would have been adjusted upward—perhaps in response to improvements in the overall budget outlook or to a reevaluation of strategic considerations.

Indeed, this is what happened under the Clinton Administration. The level of funding for defense projected under the first Clinton defense plan, released in 1993, was about 5 percent below the level called for in the last Bush defense plan. In later years, the Clinton Administration on several occasions made upward adjustments to the budget levels projected in its defense plan.

However, based on Congress’ record of the past six years, since the Republican Party took control of both the House and Senate, it seems unlikely that substantially more would have been provided for defense in the 1990s had the White House been occupied by a Republican. Altogether, Congress has added about $50 billion to the Clinton Administration’s defense budget requests over the FY 1996-01 period. That amounts to only about 3 percent of the $1.71 trillion total provided. Moreover, Congress’ own annual spending plans over this period have not called for major long-term increases in funding for defense. The CBR, which lays out Congress’ overall spending plan (typically for the next five years) is a purely congressional document not subject to presidential control or a veto. Over the FY 1996-01 period, the various CBRs passed by Congress have generally called for adding only about 1 percent to the Clinton Administration’s own defense plan. The fact that these CBRs have not included major long-term increases in funding for defense reflects, among other factors, the critical importance placed on deficit reduction and, especially over the past few years, tax cuts within the Republican majority in Congress.

Spending on Contingency Operations
Even if it is true that the defense topline of the past eight years would have been roughly the same under a Republican Administration, a case could be made that the funding provided would have been spent somewhat differently. In particular, it might be argued that a Republican president would not have used the US military in as many contingency operations as has President Clinton. This might, for example, have freed up more funding for weapons modernization. Congress’ support for many of these operations has been lukewarm at best. Republican presidential candidate George W. Bush has asserted that US military deployments are “too often open-ended and lacking in clear objectives.” Bush advisor Condoleeza Rice has criticized the Clinton Administration for using the US military as a “global police force.”

However, spending on Clinton-initiated contingency operations has absorbed only a small fraction of DoD’s topline over the past eight years. Between FY 1993 and FY 2000, DoD incurred incremental costs for various contingency operations of about $27 billion. This represents only about 1 percent of total DoD funding over this period. To be sure, this may understate the full impact of these operations on DoD funding requirements. For example these costs do not include the higher pay raises provided over the past several years which, some argue, are needed in part to keep re-enlistment rates adequate in the face of the higher operational tempo caused by these operations. On the other hand, it is far from clear that significantly less funding would have been required for contingency operations over the past eight years under a Republican presidency. Almost $8 billion of the $27 billion provided since FY 1993 was for operations in Southwest Asia begun under the Bush Administration. Some of the $1.5 billion spent on operations in Somalia might also be fairly attributed to the Bush Administration, which first sent US troops to Somalia in December 1992. Likewise, it is unclear whether a Republican president would have necessarily refrained from deploying US military forces in Bosnia or Kosovo, along with Southwest Asia, by far the largest and most costly deployments of the past eight years. Former Senator Bob Dole, the Republican candidate for president in 1996, for example, was a strong supporter of US military action to defend the Kosovo Albanians against Serbian “ethnic cleansing” in the late 1990s. Future Defense Funding Levels: Little Difference Between Parties
As indicated above, the decision to cut defense budgets in the 1990s was clearly a bipartisan one, driven in large part by the disappearance of the Soviet Union and a bipartisan desire to bring the federal deficit under control. Over the past several years, the federal budget outlook has improved dramatically. It is as yet unclear how this improved outlook will affect the budget levels for defense supported by either Democrats or Republicans.

However, the limited evidence available suggests that neither party is yet ready to support a major increase in funding for defense. Under the last Clinton Administration defense plan (released in February 2000) defense budgets are projected to remain essentially flat in real terms over the next five years. And the latest CBR, passed in April, would provide essentially the same level of funding as the administration’s plan—providing 1.5 percent more in FY 2001 and less than one-tenth of 1 percent more over the FY 2002-05 period.

Both parties appear to place higher priority on other policy initiatives, such as protecting Social Security and Medicare, expanding some entitlement benefits, increasing funding for some domestic programs like education, and cutting taxes. The two parties differ considerably in the relative importance attached to these other priorities (e.g., entitlement expansion versus tax cuts), but the effect on the prospects for a major increase in defense spending may be the same. In other words, while the bipartisan consensus for cutting defense that characterized most of the 1990s may be over, neither party has as yet shown a clear commitment to funding major increases in funding of the kind being called for by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Spending Smarter
Fortunately, the effectiveness with which DoD addresses the most pressing US security challenges in the future is likely to rest much more on how wisely, rather than how much, it spends. Indeed, at least until the US military begins to transform itself so that it is better able to meet the very different, and far more serious, challenges likely to emerge over the long term, the value of a substantial boost in defense funding may be questionable.

The next administration needs to move beyond the current highly politicized debate over military spending and near-term readiness and begin addressing some more fundamental and critical questions: Is the US military “ready” for the right kinds of missions and challenges? And, perhaps most importantly, what are we doing to ensure that the US military of tomorrow will be ready for the very different kinds of challenges that will likely emerge over the next several decades?


More in Link:

http://www.csbaonline.org/4Publications/Archive/H.20000831.Post-Cold_War_Defe/H.20000831.Post-Cold_War_Defe.htm
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Sparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
54. The republicans and their ABC's.....
Always Blame Clinton!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
55. NPR - National Pentagon Radio
Yeah and how about NPR Host trying to hold his feet to the fire. *yawn*
It made me want to throw my radio out the window, that Perle interview did. What a slimy toad.

Moochy
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Ms_Mary Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
59. Yes, I heard Perle, one of Rum's 2 supporters.
The other being Bush himself.

Of course, it's all Clinton's fault... After all, he insisted Iraq had WMD. Oh, wait.
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
60. A LTTE from my senator blaming Clinton was printed last Sunday.
My reply:

To the editor,

Senator James M. Inhofe‘s defense of Donald Rumsfeld published in the Examiner Enterprise December 19th Readers Roundtable painted an incomplete picture of the problems confronted by the Department of Defense in the Iraq war effort. Mr. Rumsfeld is responsible for our Iraqi quagmire as well as the shortage of armor for our soldiers.

In 1991 Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney defended President George H.W.Bush’s decision not to invade Iraq after the liberation of Kuwait by arguing that such an invasion, “would have had to go all the way to Baghdad, we would have to commit a lot of force because I do not believe he (Hussein) would wait in the Presidential Palace for us to arrive. “ Cheney went on to say, “And once we'd done that and we'd gotten rid of Saddam Hussein and his government, then we'd have had to put another government in its place.” Defense Secretary Cheney continued to justify the decision not to invade Iraq on the grounds that the US would be required to occupy Iraq while suffering large casualties to maintain whatever type of government replaced Saddam. Cheney concluded, “That it would have been a mistake for us to get bogged down in the quagmire inside Iraq.” (Soref Symposium, April 29, 1991) It is also important to remember that the first Bush administration’s decision not to invade Iraq was made after Hussein gassed his own people, the Kurds, at Halabja in 1988.

If Cheney’s decade old predictions weren’t enough there were others who sounded the alarm that an invasion wouldn’t be a short and simple exercise. Prior to the invasion, then Army Chief of Staff General Eric Shinseki testified before Congress that hundreds of thousands of troops would be required to win in Iraq. After his testimony Shinseki was scorned by Rumsfeld as an obstructionist. Shinseki retired shortly thereafter when Rumsfeld announced Shinseki’s replacement a year before Shinseki’s scheduled retirement.

In his letter to the EE Sen.Inhofe naturally places blame for Rumsfeld’s failures on former President Clinton. Perhaps the Senator is unaware that funding for national defense declined by 16.9 percent between FY1989 and FY1993, during the first President Bush’s administration. Had the budget proposed by President G.H.W. Bush for FY 1993 been adopted, defense spending would have declined by another 19 percent through 1997. Rather than the 19 percent reduction advocated by G.H.W.Bush, defense spending did fall another 13.1percent under the Clinton administration, until 1998. Defense pending increased during the last two Clinton years by 7 percent. Mr. Inhofe must also recall that almost all of Mr. Clinton’s budgets were passed by a Republican congress.

There is no doubt that our enemy is savage and ruthless,(those were Inhofe's words) but the enemy will not be defeated by poor planning with absent accountability. If an invasion of Iraq was necessary, it was also necessary to plan for the probable consequences of the invasion. Sec. Rumsfeld was warned of the likely consequences of an invasion but chose not to heed those warnings, opting instead for a single plan; a quick victory after the “shock and awe” initial attack.

Senator Inhofe should demand that Secretary Rumsfeld answer for his failure of leadership. A single party now controls all three branches of federal government. This leaves the country without the traditional checks and balances of divided government. Without those checks a new responsibility falls on Senators like Inhofe to require government to correct mistakes, particularly when the lives of Americans are in peril.

Sincerely,
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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
63. Perle is so bogus!
He's blaming the failures in Iraq on our SOLDIERS!

Right, like is was THEIR fault! All soldiers do is do what they are told.

Of course, Perle was the chair of the Defense Policy Board, primary advisors to Rumsfeld. Of course the Iraq failures could NEVER have been the fault of the folks running things.

Perle is SO lacking in credibility in this matter, he's too busy covering himself and his friends.
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proudbluestater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
64. "We only had 1 year to prepare before the war came"
OH, MY GAWD. He and his neocon buds had approached CLINTON to invade Iraq in the 90s. They have been preparing for this war for a LONG time, and gee, it didn't just "come" they WENT AFTER IT! And to further their sick agenda, they want to hurry up this election in Iraq so they can move on to their next "conquests," Iran and Syria.

So glad I did NOT hear it. I would have had a freaking stroke.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. So, tell me Richard, you knew the war was coming?
You prepared for it for a year?

Makes me wonder how long you have been planning for it. Must be long before 9-11.
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SteveIrving1 Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
65. They would...
Demonetize Jesus if the stood to gain something from it.
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
67. why doesnt he release all his papers on Iraq`
and prove he was never thinking about invading Iraq?

Wasnt he a signature to the letter asking Clinton to invade Iraq?
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
68. Clinton's Army did just fine in Afghanistan
And this non election Mis Administration had a "plan" to attack Iraq ten days into their occupation of the WH! A year my ass! The MePublicans will blame Clinton forever. They can go Cheney themselves!
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