Should Kerry have run for President given that he did not fight for voters?

[genius]

Kerry's quick concession and his failure to take it back seems to indicate that he isn't really that interested in the job. There were nine other interested candidates who likely would not have quit. If he wasn't up to the task of fighting for the rights of the voters, should he have quit before the nomination?

[comradebillyboy]

1. i would have preferred a fighter

like dean. maybe give up some wind surfing days. kerry has that same sense of entitlement as bush and it showed

[ashling]

5. I certainly would have preferred Dean

By accepting the nomination, Kerry obligated himself to make sure that it was not a done deal until every vote is counted, whether he personallly felt it was lost or not.

[oneold1-4u]

13. Kerry lost nada!

He didn't even have that many friends to lose among the Dem. voters!

[LittleClarkie]

21. I dispute that

That's an RNC talking point, that we were all ABB. Well, maybe we started that way at the beginning of the process, but I could have sworn we had won over a decent number of them within the last few weeks of the election. The archives are back up, I could go and check how folks were talking.

Even if my perception is wrong, you will need some sort of Democratic poll to convince me that Kerry had, or has, little support. Please tell me on what you base your opinion that Kerry didn't have many friends among the Dem voters, if you would. Thanks.

[formernaderite]

35. I'm no Kerry defender but....

...just because some democrats feel that every vote has not been counted does not make Kerry's position disloyal. There are many democrats besides Kerry who have also expressed this position. Sure I preferred Dean, and emotionally I still wish he had been the candidate....but this Kerry blame game is ridiculous. We, the democratic primary voters obviously chose him.

[freedom_to_read]

2. and we get mad at Rethugs for push polling!

jeez! thanks for begging the question.

[St. Jarvitude]

25. Genius is a frequent push poller.

I totally agree with genius about most of his push polls, but push polling is a dirty tactic that we should never lower ourselves to. Especially on ourselves.

[NoPasaran]

3. Can you say...

"Flame Bait"?

[genius]

4. It's something we need to consider when selecting our next candidate.

This poll clealy speaks for a lot of people.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. What a pantload..you were smearing Kerry long before the vote

[genius]

10. The concession was what hurt Kerry. I worked hard for Kerry.

He won and then he threw it all away. A lot of people who worked hard for Kerry feel he should have worked hard for us. It was as if he did not care at all about those who had fought to make him President. I never want to back the wrong candidate again.

[Stinky The Clown]

22. I called the Kerry HQ in DC at 2.30 AM on 11/3

Its a local call for me. A young (sounding) woman answered. I asked her if they intended to fight for the vote. She said "Yes". I asked again, if they were going to fight to the end and not let us all down. Again she said yes.

And now ..... fucking crickets ....... nada .... feh! ......

Insiders .... fuck that!

[genius]

24. That's a lie. Look at my old posts. I was defending Kerry from attacks.

Although I prefered Dennis, I believed Kerry was a liberal and he was my second choice. After he was nominated, I worked like crazy to get him elected. After his concession, I felt like I had been taken in.

[NoPasaran]

14. Well, Kerry said he WOULD fight

And certainly everything he had done in his past showed that he could fight. Like you, I would have selected a different candidate. But I don't think that there was any evidence available to any of us that might have indicated that Kerry would concede as quickly as he did.

[Bridget Burke]

12. One of many....

Everybody needs a hobby.

[Generator]

6. Ya know I'm not sure I would believe any of them would fight

Has Dean been leading the charge for voting rights lately?

Anybody?

I think Dean would have held off for a couple of weeks and bowed down too. Or maybe sooner.

I think the evil we are up against is going to take some people that don't care about losing their careers or their lives over it. I know that's super dramatic talk-but I really put nothing against BushCo.

It's a new ball game. The old rules are out. Who's up for risking everything?

[genius]

8. I can think of one candidate who fits that catagory.

[lojasmo]

16. self deleted

[Lerkfish]

9. er...the two choices aren't enough...

for one thing, I would hope that Kerry did not know at nomination time if he would have to fight for voters instead of himself, so how could he have made a decision based on that...but even if he did know through some magical crystal ball, I doubt he would have been upfront enough to say to the other nominees:

"you know, I am prescient enough to know I'll have to choose whether to fight for myself or the voters after the election, and I'm pretty darn sure I'm going to abandon the voters in preference for saving millions for a later presidential bid, so one of you guys should go on ahead of me, I'll step down"

kinda ridiculous.

Better choices for the poll would have been:

Who do you think would have fought for the votes to be counted EVEN IF that meant still losing the bid for the presidency?

1. Dean
2. Kucinich
3. Gephardt
...etc.


if the question were framed that way, I'd say Dean was most likely to continue to fight for fair elections even if there was no political payoff in the end for him.

I liked Dean, I could have tolerated Clark or Gephardt, BUT I didn't even know much about Kerry or Edwards at the time of the primaries. Only by the END of the process, after the media had crucified Dean as the front runner, and it looked like Kerry was going to be "it" did I ever find out much about him.
At the time of the primaries, I was in the "I will vote for a sweat sock as long as its not Bush".
However, to be fair, I DID attend two Kerry rallies personally, and was won over by them and felt very safe putting my trust in him....I wonder now if I was correct in that assessment.

I would have preferred MORE of a fighter from him for our votes, and NOT a quick concession speech. That MIGHTILY disappointed me. I cannot tell you how much.

[Radical Activist]

11. over 90,000 votes

aren't going to come out of nowhere. Move on.

[Cheswick2.0]

15. This is really just flame bait I think

Why open wounds this way? There a lot of people here for who Kerry was their choice and you are just rubbing in the pain they are feeling.

What is the sense of this? Are we going to learn anything useful from the results of this poll?

[politicasista]

17. I am SICK of all this Kerry bashing

I want him to come out just like all of you all do. It was a BIG mistake for the campaign to write off the South. His campaign manager should have known that better than anyone. I agree he conceded too soon and should come out and let's us know what's going on, but I don't attack him personally and say this is what our guy would have done and so on.:cry:

[LittleClarkie]

19. It's Genius

It's his job. It's what he does.


Daily.

[andyadkins]

18. Kerry better than all for '08, "SO GET RIGHT"

Personal attacks on him and other democrats will weaken their efforts
to positively shape the presidents policy agenda to the benefit of all. By the way, Kerry is closer than anyone else to securing the Presidency in '08. Do not wistfully fall succor to the plans of old fools; strenghten Kerry's hand to ensure that a Democrat resides in the White House in '09.

[LittleClarkie]

20. I've seen enough Kerry 08 blogs to think you're right

Lovely little push poll, innit.

In other news, my sig picture's back! I do miss it so when we're having brown outs over here.

[autorank]

23. He should have fought for voting rights BEFORE THE ELECTION.

How fucking stupid can you get? (and I worked for and gave to Kerry).

Everybody who can find their ass with both hands knew that Jeb and Blackwell were setting up a mess. Many suspected Rove of great deviousness and cunning.

What do you do if you're the opponent? You scream, I mean scream, from the highest mountain top that everybody has the right to vote and every vote must be counted. This would have:

(a) pre-empted much of the voter suppression;
(b) set at least a few reporters on the track of dirty tricks;
(c) set up the election challenge afterwords if there was any voter suppression or electoral fraud.

It would be a different world right now if this had been done.

That it was not done is GROSS NEGLIGENCE. Shame on these arrogant, short sighted, dilettantes in the party and the Kerry campaign! They should have known better. We did!

[politicasista]

32. You sound bitter.

[autorank]

36. It's a style thing. I was feisty last night. Upon reflection, I have the

same position. Why didn't they preempt or preposition the issue. Three known facts: (a) the Republicans are shady, very much so; and (b) they stole 2000 in FL; and (c) everybody saw Ohio suppression coming, even the CM (Corporate Media). Given that, I think that the campaign blew it on this issue. I liked much of what they did but little or hesitant response on vote fraud and Swift Boat lies really hurt our guys. Ah well.

[imenja]

26. Could we please think about the future!

rather than continually rehashing the past? What is the point? Kerry was the nominee. You can't change that now. People need to think more carefully before they run out and vote for the guy who seems most popular, but there is no point second guessing it now. Let's plan for today forward.

[FrenchieCat]

27. But shouldn't we make notes of our mistakes....

so that we don't repeat them? I think they call that the "after action" reports. No need to wait until March 2008 to determine where Democrats went wrong....no need to wait until March 2008 to have our representatives scream about election reform....as I suspect that would be too late....again.

[sendero]

29. It is the future...

... in that a bunch of folks seem to think Kerry should have another shot on 08.

I will be a Dem forever but I will not vote for that man again. Simple as that. He had his shot, he blew it. If that is the best we as a party can do, we are screwed.

I'm not mad at Kerry, nor do I think he is a "failure" or a "sellout" or any of that stuff. I believe he did not challenge the election because he could not see any way for him to benefit by doing so. He is not perfect, and his particular areas of imperfection cost us an election against a candidate who should have been downright easy to beat.

Kerry is a great senator, may he have a long career there.

[imenja]

31. agree 100%

particularly about why Kerry didn't challenge the election in a serious way.

[robbedvoter]

33. How about change the voting system that it works? kerry could have

at least tried better, is he now, as a senator? Who, besides Conyers is really fighting for our future?

[The Flaming Red Head]

28. Looks like they decided in advance to let Bush have this election.

I feel stupid for even voting in it.

[zulchzulu]

30. Your assumption is a fallacy and a lie

Kerry has been fighting for votes and investigating election fraud. You're as simple-minded and uninformed as the average Hannity lover.

Do your homework.

[greenohio]

34. MM says that we lost....doesn't that mean we lost?