I don't think I like Obama. I just got Newsweek( I get it as a gift)

[saracat]

and I refuse to read the article about a "purple country" and how he is going to lead us to our"moral core" Fuck that. I don't want my country purple.I want it blue. If you want to flame me,go ahead.I haven't liked what Obama has been saying for a while.He believes in being "centrist" to get elected. I don't.I never will. And I don't respect cetrist as they are trying to be all things to all people and it can't be done.And I would rather NOT have the people he wants to appeal to in the party. If this party goes to the center( much more and we will be right! ) I am history!

[Melissa G]

1. I met him and I liked him But

I am with you this center BS is garbage we just won with a major liberal Senator! Count the Votes! All of them! enough of this bs that we need to be middle to win. We need to fight for the win we already have now!

[formernaderite]

49. Perhaps he's planning to become a media whore like McCain....

...and this is just a stepping stone for him.

[Eloriel]

80. I only saw his convention speech, but judging from that

I think those who are going off on him are wrong-headed by a long shot.

Just to be clear, I MAJORLY reject centrism; I also reject the rightward tilt of this party to the max AND I loathe, loathe, loathe the DLC. If Obama indeed comes up in favor of any of that, then --- pffft, he's off my list too.

BUT, there's something different afoot (again, judging from my viewing of his Convention speech) and I'll also add a plug here for Howard Dean because he's the one who taught me this. The best I can describe it is transcendent liberal politics. It goes BEYOND labels; it assumes a point of view and a position literally above the typical polarization so many of us feel and practice and frankly believe in. It is NOT capitulation in any way, it is NOT "compromise" which for Dems too often means losing our way (and giving away the farm not to mention the seed corn) for the sake of some false harmony. No, it's quite simply a dramatically new way of seeing things, and framing them.

It's also highly populist, whether it's recognized as that or called that or even uses some of the standard language of populism. It's not an "us against them" but an "us and us" and a "we're all in this together."

It's also not some pale or even vibrant version of Bill Clintons' "Third Way" which sounded so good but ultimately meant so little except, again, for what we ceded in the name of "bipartisanship" or something equally harmful.

To a large extent, it's reframing things, but it really requires that transcendent SEEING of issues before they can be reframed.

Think back to Dean's positions on some of the traditional wedge issues for a glimmer of what I'm talking about:

Abortion? Congress shouldn't be practicing medicine.

Guns? Keep what we've got and let the states decide what they need; Indiana and Vermont need something entirely different from New Jersey and California.

Civil Unions? Everyone in America should have the same rights as others. It's a civil rights issue.

These kinds of argument render these and other wedge issues completely impotent. And had a couple of his primary opponents not opportunistically seized upon some style over substance in the Confederate flag remark, Dean would have hammered home a BIG one on the populist front and helped greatly to neutrilize the racial wedge issue: we ARE all in this together and no matter what you think or believe, your children are hurting too. (I know some people don't agree with me, but Jesse Jackson Jr. defended Dean on that, so I feel in pretty good company here, AND he'd been saying it for months with no backlash AND his Deputy Campaign Director whom he picked up from Carol Mosely Braun's campaign let him get away with it repeatedly.)

Anyway, as I said, if the kneejerk reaction against Obama is appropraite, I'll join in, but I was very impressed in the very same way as with Dean over Obama's speech at the DNC. I'd suggest taking another look.

[Alizaryn]

2. I totally agree. LAST thing we need to do is

begin to emulate the false morality of the current administration!

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donheld]

25. Yes we are being very premature

BTW welcome to DU :hi:

[serryjw]

9. I remember how Kerry choked.......

when he was discussing his (Catholic) faith during the debates. We WANT a separation of Church and State. I don't want to elect a POPE. I am electing a President of a SECULAR Nation....Have we forgotten that?

[LittleClarkie]

19. How was it a choke?

I thought it was a good and honest answer.

Separation of church and state doesn't mean that our elected official can't have a faith, just that they don't legislate that faith.

Kerry said that quite well, imho.

[Q]

35. It's much more than about 'legislating faith'...

...it's also objectionable to USE that faith to pander for votes. Whatever happened to politicians who thought their faith was a private matter?

[paulk]

60. you mean like Bush and the Republicans do?

just askin'...

[LittleClarkie]

63. Well, he was asked during a debate for one thing

does he pander normally? I hadn't heard him mention it much.

Speaking of pandering, can anyone tell me about Gore 2000 and why the word pander was used by at least one article I read when looking up his campaign and Donna Brizalle on Google? They seemed to be saying that he'd change his message depending on where he was, but I was wondering if anyone had more info.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saracat]

14. Excuse Have you been talking to anyone? I have and we are NOT a

minority. There is anger everywhere I go. Almost my entire precinct is full of anger. I have pledged to fight to keep this party from going center or right. We are NOT fringe elements.Moveon.org is not "fringe" This is that DLC garbage that is a total disconnect from the real world. I am not "fringe". I am a educated professional and a wife. I serve on the boards of various philanthropic organizations. I am a Democratic District Chair. I am a member of the State committee. I have been campaign manager three times. Don't you dare call me or any other of the angry Dems "fringe". We were the ones who coughed up the money. We were good enough to finance an election the Centrists lost. And I am NOT a "college sophomore who never graduated". The mental masturbation is being done by the DLCers who keep doing things the same way and expecting a different result.I am sure you know what that is the definition of. I am sure you would have a lot in common with Al From.

[Rowdyboy]

21. Excuse me, but if Senator Obama isn't good enough for you

then you'll never find an electable Democrat you could support. You guys want to blame the DLC for all the country's problems, yet when a brilliant, electable, non-DLC Democrat like Sen Obama comes along, you can't wait to lynch him.

I'm just as angry as you but that doesn't change the fact that leftists are and always have been a minuscule minority in the United States. Please give me a link that disproves that statement...Cite me an election in American history when a leftist has won...Give me one example, please, just one, of where a leftist nominee or candidate has ever accomplished a damn thing besides glorious defeat (see Adlai Stevenson, Stuart Symington, Gene McCarty, Bobby Kennedy, George McGovern, Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, Bill Bradley, and Dennis Kucinich...(I deliberately omit Howard Dean because he's one of the most politically moderate Democrats in America in spite of his supporters delusions).

And if you consider Barrack Obama a centrist, then I cannot help but consider you "fringe".

BTW, implying that I "have a lot in common with Al From" is funny. If you're so politically sophisticated, and deeply involved in changing the party, and on the state committee and all, why don't you know how to spell your enemy's name? It's Al Fromm-but I guess accuracy is not your strong point. Just smearing anyone who dares to disagree with you.

[gottaB]

29. It's "Al From"

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=86&subid=191&contentid=1131

[hfojvt]

89. but it's Erich Fromm n/t

[saracat]

30. Excuse me. Who did I smear? I said I didn't "think" I like Obama based on

what he has been saying recently. How is that a smear? I think he is a centrist. I also wouldn't be so sure about him being non DLC. He certainly is quite the favorite of theirs. To quote the Newsweek article ( I did read it after all)
" Illinois Rep. Rahm Emanuel, an architect of President Clinton's "Third Way" approach, sees him as a bridge from the left to the center of the spectrum: Not just a phenomenal writer_he wrote that convention speech himself_but incredibly pragmatic". The key word is "Third Way"
The one who is smearing here is you. You call anyone who disagrees with you uneducated and sophomoric! You called me part of a "pathetic minority! " You insist I am "fringe" . Who is smearing whom. I haven't said a thing about anyone except that they are centrist! You might notice , if you glance at this weeks Newsweek that the article on Santorum is entitled "Mr. Right". That is a clear definitive statement of his position as well as a play on words. The article on Obama is entitled "The Audacity of Hope". Which candidate do you end up with a clearer picture of? Obama is going center which puts him nowhere. He, then, has no position. If center was such an electable place to be, why don't the Republicans use it? Centrism hasn't won us any elections either. Clinton won because he was Clinton.He could have sold ice to Eskimo's. Centrism didn't give him coattails. We have never gotten control of Congress back since. I don't count the Jeffords incident. That had nothing to do with us. The Republicans took control by going right. We have to define ourselves as different, not as the same. People want a choice. End of rant we must disagree. And BTW, when did Bobby Kennedy lose? He was on his way to the nomination. And he would have won. That is usually a given. And FDR was a liberal, as was John Kennedy, and Lyndon Johnson. Jimmy Carter was also a liberal. And Al From is Al From.

[Darth_Kitten]

45. John Kerry?

:shrug: I'm still thinking he won this election yet corruption and cheating robbed him of the presidency. But that's just my "hunch" (though my hunches are almost never wrong. heh heh)

Uh, and no one is out to "lynch" Obama. Honestly. I'm personally sick of "do nothing, want everything, sitting on the fence, won't take a strong position on anything", republican lite "centrists" wailing that liberals and progressives don't belong in the party. What would the democractic party be without women, minorities, gays, working people?

AGain, progressives and lefties are not "fringe" elements. :)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. Robert Francis Kennedy Was A Pragmatic Liberal....

He was far from a leftist...


Also, he never lost an election and won every primary in 68 except one...


I don't remember him being "defeated"..


I do remember his and our hopes ending when he took a bullet in the back of his ear...

[Cheswick2.0]

83. "Dean's supporters delusions"

We don't have any.

Fiscal moderate, social liberal.

JFK, LBJ and FDR were all liberals.

[blackangrydem]

85. Was JFK really a liberal?

We know he cut taxes to stimulate the economy.

He expanded the military (special forces) and increased our presence in Vietnam.

Tried to oust Communism in Cuba.

I'm not sure what his stand was on abortion, but I have a feeling he was not for it.

Hell, today he'd be a right-wing wacko.

[itzamirakul]

40. Saracat: I posted this question in its own thread but ...

from whence cometh Al From's salary?

How much does he earn annually?

Personally, I think he gets his money from the corporate donors that the DLC solicits and that is the main reason he keeps promoting their causes against the desires of the progressives in the Party. I don't think he buys ANYONE'S ideology except his own. And that means lining his pockets with as much money as possible.

[saracat]

67. From Corporate donors and membership dues I know it is over $100,000

but what it is I don't know!

[Darth_Kitten]

43. Right on!!

:D :thumbsup:

Progressives and liberals are not "fringe". They are the meat and potatoes of the Democratic party, and they shouldn't be tossed aside.

[Carolab]

17. a way for Democrats to reconnect to the mainstream.

What a bunch of crap. We ARE the mainstream. This election was STOLEN, GOT THAT? The rest is spin.

[Clarkie1]

22. Clark/Obama 08'

'nuff said.

IMHO

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kahuna]

39. In the northeast, "moderates" and "centrists" are the vast majority...

My proof is the makeup of our congressional delegation. What's your proof for stating that they're "progressive" (whatever that means)?

[saracat]

66. Depends on where you live. I am a NYer who now lives in the SW.

I used to live in Boston and Conn. The vast majority of Dems I know are liberal. More so now than ever. Upstate NY tends more moderate,as do wealthier areas of Conn. Depends. But overall numberswise they are not the "vast majority". Congressionasl makeup means nothing, if the party leaders choose only moderates to run in primaries. Here in the SW many of the repugs are actually moderate but the Repug leadership only supports RWs who are nominated. The repugs don't have a choice either in that case.

[itzamirakul]

37. Thanks for your many compliments...

I think you are in for a rude surprise when you consider "real progressives" or left-leaning liberals to be a radical fringe.

Anyway, count me in among them.

[Kahuna]

38. What you said.

:thumbsup:

[latteromden]

4. I've got to say I disagree.

I've seen a lot of your posts on this issue, and I think that A) Now, I'm as much of a liberal as the next former Green, but I would consider fiscal responsibility a centrist policy. It's not left or right. That doesn't make fiscal responsibility a "weak" position. B) Hey. Sorry, you can't have everything your way. Until the people of this country realize that Democrats represent their values (and even when they do realize, there will still be Republicans), it WILL be a purple country, whether you like it or not, and yelling about it isn't going to get you anywhere. Going out door to door and convincing Republicans will. But as of now, it IS a purple country. We ARE the minority party in Washington. We can't AFFORD to work against the moderates. They'll understand sooner or later, if we reach out to them, and THEN you'll get your blue country. That doesn't mean going to the center. That means compromise and sensibility. Yes, with the centrists you apparently hate so much. They want our basic goals. They want expanded healthcare, better education, equal opportunity for all Americans. Give up this centrist hating thing. It won't get us anywhere. LISTEN TO THEM because they have valid concerns. Liberals should be the ones that care about ALL of America, not just the ones that vote their way.

[Blue Christmas]

13. I agree with your disagreement, letteromden

I agree with latteromden. I think the key to advancing democratic ideals is the ability to compromise without sacrificing the core structure of one's beliefs.

I read great article awhile back about the illusory nature of the "red vs. blue" US electoral map and how that encourages divisiveness and discord instead of cooperation and solution.

The reality, of course, is that most states are rather evenly split, and that there are overlaps in morals and beliefs across the great "red/blue divide." I'm sure a lot of people out there have seen the revised electoral map which is shaded and gradated as opposed to either/or - I believe this map more closely represents the truth.

And while in no way am I advocating the selling out of one's ideals, I do believe that an "us vs them/no compromise" approach results primarily in a lot of fighting (and infighting) and not a lot of results.

[saracat]

15. It is interesting that in this same issue They use Rick Santorum as the

counterpoint to Obama. Rick is as RW as can be. The repugs define themselves by extremism,and it works. People know what they stand for. Voters understand black and white concepts.We must define ourselves. The only way to paint with a broad brush is to go to the left. We have to offer a choice. We are working on standing for nothing. We are shades of grey and "the big tent".Well, the voters proved that isn't what they want or understand. So why are we trying to offer it to them yet again by redrafting the party in its former image? Another thing. The party will lose all the progressives that it acquired this cycle.I doubt very mush they can replace them with the moderates. And the progressives will leave and take their money with them. And they "will NOT stay because there is no where else for them to go". I have heard that quite a bit lately as well. The party can take the gamble, and they will be wrong.

[dansolo]

52. How soon people forget about true liberals

Barack Obama's political mentor was the late Paul Simon, the excellent, VERY liberal Senator from Illinois. He was also one of the strongest advocates of a balanced budget. That is why I feel that the liberals who so blithely discount balanced budgets are part of the problem, not the solution.

[seito]

5. Our morals are just fine

Unfortunately, we have let the right define to the world what our morals are. What we need to do is to educate American on what a liberal is an exactly what liberals have done for this nation.

[Alizaryn]

26. You sum up my feelings Seito. Obama is a dynamite

personality and I have high hopes for him. What I was trying to say was I admire him reflecting what he is, my fear is our attempting to emulate the administration and its definition of "moral". THAT is where I think we would be making a mistake. I don't consider myself fringe either but I can't see compromising ourselves to the point that we loose who we are as a party.

[Kahuna]

41. Obama is just the type of spokesperson that we need.

nt

[fearnobush]

6. I read it too, had some mixed feelings but overall like his approach

since he focused on the notion of Liberal christians - a group we cannot neglect.

[RageKage]

8. don't be so simple...

Judge him by his actions, not his rhetoric. His rhetoric has a broad appeal had, but his actions have been anything but centrist. That is is strength. He is able to justify very progressive policy in very centrist language. It is a shame it makes you so uncomfortable.

[shraby]

10. I'm not in favor of a purple country because

it would mean everyone is thinking alike. That doesn't bode well to me. Opposition is necessary in a free society. Not only necessary it is mandatory to keep it a free society. Remember Hitler had everyone on the same page (almost everyone) and look what happened to Germany.

[dansolo]

90. No it means that people are working together

A purple country, as opposed to a red/blue country, would indicate that people can ackowledge their differences, and work together towards a common goal. It doesn't require everyone to think alike.

[elehhhhna]

11. You've just defines the Anti-Bush! We need more of him!

[loyalsister]

27. Bingo!

It's not even always his rhetoric. The pundits spin is largely what everyone is having a fit over here.
This guy may be able to accomplish what we desparately needed during the last election. IT'S THE LANGUAGE STUPID!!! I recommend reading "What's the Matter With Kansas" in order to really understand what has gone wrong. Democrats are not speaking the same dialect as most voters who should be voting for us. A lot of it has to do with this "play by the rules, lead simple life, and go to church on sundays" thing. Obama gets it and speaks the language because he grew up in the culture. He knows you can sell them health care if you talk about it the right way.
Also check out the current American Prospect. It's language and economics that are winning elections for Democrats. Neither of these things are intrinsic elements of the DLC. They are cultural norms and policy issues that appeal to ordinary people.

[Smarmie Doofus]

12. Obama... much hype but, where's the beef?

I'm sure he's a nice guy, must be a smart guy ( Harvard Law Review editor)but what the heck is all the excitement about???

Democrats deluded themselves into thinking that a combination of William Jennings Bryan, Adlai Stevenson and Demosthenes was going to keynote the Boston convention in the person of Barack.

In fact, the speech was a rushed, badly delivered mishmash of dull we're-all-flowers-in-god's-garden cliches that said precisely nothing to the general public about why the Democratic party exists. It did succeed in capturing in tone and content the central message of the convention: we don't make waves; we make "nice".

Conversely, the republicans kicked ass at their convention. Result: the republicans convention helped their candidate immensly and the Dem convention helped Kerry et al little if at all.

The fact that Newsweek has discovered yet another mushy and muddled centrist in the senate dem caucus does not surprise. My question is
how far is the dem rank and file going to allow the Bernard Kerik wing ( ask Hillary and Schumer about him!) of the Democratic party to dominate at the leadership level before it demands something more.

[Guaranteed]

53. That's what I'm sayin'. He's so PRETTY, though. nt

[QC]

54. How about we let him take office and then decide how he's doing?

There's plenty of time to hate on him once he's actually had a chance to do something.

[RageKage]

88. The reason the convention had so little impact

is because only Al-Jezeera and C-Span gave it complete coverage.

Obama's speech at the convention moved me more than any other political speach I have every heard given. (I am only 27, however) People at the convention were moved to tears! And it was so sly, politically. The way he could effortlessly parallel a traditionally 'right' platform or value, with a traditionally 'left' one. Mastery!

For a fleeting moment this cynical Canadian actually believed in the promise and hope of the United States of America.

[davsand]

96. My opinion won't mean dick to you, but Obama is, quite simply, amazing.

I've been doing this politics thing for a little while now, and I'll tell you that as somebody who's met a few politicos, Obama really appeals to me. He's sincere, he's ethical, and he's talking about stuff he really feels.

I was not convinced we'd get him out of the primary, but we did--and he kicked ass because the Illinois Dems responded to Obama, not some hype put out by the media. Obama is a very smart man, and all the things he accomplished as an Illinois State Senator he did when the GOP had control. THAT is pretty amazing stuff if you actually LOOK at his legislative record here in Illinois.

I only wish more people could physically meet that man. he is a force, and he has potential to help a great deal with the issues facing this nation.

How about giving him a chance to actually represent those of us that elected him before you form up the infamous Democratic Circular Firing Squad?


Laura

[idealista]

16. I think of purple as very countercultural.......maybe my age

I also want to say that I have long accepted that politicians representing my views are unlikely to be elected, as being more centrist generally helps get the larger share of the electorate.

Therefore, I do two things: I support interest groups that represent my agenda (environment, population growth, etc.) but support politicians that I think CAN ACTUALLY GET ELECTED. Over time, the interest groups, thru lobbying, education etc., will pull the center in their direction, I hope.

"Liberal" ideas are so sensible, so I am so glad to see new blood that can speak in language the average person understands, and hasn't been innoculated against by the stealth right-wing media.

[DaveinMD]

18. that's not what he's saying

He's saying that the right wing likes to divide us against each other. Red and Blue should have a lot in common if we get over the division that the right stirs up.

[Edgewater_Joe]

20. Did You Actually Listen To His Convention Speech?

Because if you did, you'd be embarassed by what you just typed. When Obama talks about a "purple" country, it's his way of saying that in reality America's values are shared a lot more than those who divide us into red and blue think -- and we all know which of the two parties works day in and day out to keep red states red and blue states blue.

Obama's rhetoric talks about an America that brings everyone together over a group of core values that, trust me, is as progressive as you can get. I personally worked on the campaign here in Illinois to abolish the death penalty, and Obama was one of the few brave senators who co-sponsored a bill years before George Ryan stunned the world by actually doing it.

Simply put, his record matches his rhetoric -- and his rhetoric can, if you get the burrs out from under your butt, help our side figure out a way out of the mess that Dear Leader Dubya is putting us in.

If you want to pick a fight, pick a fight with a REAL pseudo-Democrat like Zell Miller or any random leader of the Democratic Losers Council. Obama is the wrong fight.

[Clarkie1]

23. Obama had the best convention speech, Clark's was 2nd best

Clark/Obama 08'

[angee_is_mad]

24. When will u know?

When you actually see what he will do in office? If that is the case why make this post? Call me curious!

[saracat]

32. I won't really know much until I see him in action. But then we never know

much about candidates until we see them work. I feel his recent statements don't auger well for the state of the Party as I don't agree with moving to the center. Hence, based on his remarks, I am uncertain as to whether I like him. I post to get the reaction of others.

[WyLoochka]

46. Sara, calm down and wait

There are only nine elected members of From's Dem base hating, repuke adoring, organization from Illinois. And Obama is NOT one of those nine.

He owes nothing to From and the DLC. He was elected to the state legislature and now to the Senate despite NOT signing onto the From-Emanuel pathetic, third way or no way, prescription to massive electoral losses.

I hardly think he's going to be bowing, scraping, capitulating and kissing wingnut butt on core policies, ala From, once in DC.

Our path back to the "Blue" will take time. Afterall, it has taken the corpo-fascist theo righties since 1964 to pull us all the way to the right wing cliff. No one person can possibly lead this country back to "Blue" overnight.

[AP]

28. People don't think that the core of being a Democrat is morality?

I certainly believe Democracy is built on morality and the other party is built on immoral greed.

[Piperay]

31. I agree

COMPELETLY. :thumbsup:

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WyLoochka]

47. Talk about "diminutive ignorance"

"Bayh/Richardson '08" Bwahhahahahahahahah

in your puny dreams.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. Did Jake Say He Supported Bayh Richardson In 08?

Us RFK guys stick together...

[hippiechick]

59. Diminutive Ignorance ...

...from someone with 'Bayh/Richardson 08' in his sig line ??

Now if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black !!

:freak:


:hippie:

[Kahuna]

36. Oh please. ..

:eyes:

[mattclearing]

42. I think he has great potential.

I don't get the impression he is leading from the middle politically, but rather gives a moderate impression. I didn't read all of the Newsweek piece, though. I don't mind if he comes off as a centrist if he is willing to hold his ground on key issues.

Christ, the guy hasn't even cast a single vote in the Senate yet, and already he's not liberal enough.

I say give him a break and see how he does.

[GOPBasher]

44. I think you read way too into his rhetoric.

He's as far left a senator as we have. He just talks the moderate "talk." That's exactly the same thing that Bush does. He acts like a reasonable moderate, but in reality he's a hardcore right winger. That gets him more votes, and when he's in office, he governs from the right. Why can't we do this? Look at Obama's actual stances on the issues. He's very left.

[Deja Q]

48. 'centrist' equals 'put-corporate-first'. I agree with you in that respect,

I haven't kept up with Obama reports, but I do like the guy.

But when a 'left' politician starts suggesting he's a 'centrist', then there is no point in voting. Corporate power has precedence in this country, whether we like it or not. Not until there is a left-wing party that the people agree on, OR until the corporate element play fair again. (give me about 20 minutes, I need to go laugh hysterically to the point of involuntary urination...)

[AngryAmish]

50. We must crush our enemies unmercifiully

The Repubs are vermin and must be dealt with as such.

[greenohio]

56. Ahh, we're back to eating our own....or actually we never stopped.

So Obama, who requested he have his name taken off the DLC list is no good now too. We don't like Pelosi, Obama, Clinton, Rendell, Stabenow, Cantwell, Feinstein.....

For those wanting to start their own party... I have a name for you:

Little Tent.

[QC]

57. But it's what we do best!

Spoilsport!

[greenohio]

58. Yes. Practice makes perfect.

And I think we have it awful close to perfect.

[Radical Activist]

61. You made that judgement without even reading the article?

Wow you sound very level headed. :eyes:

[WilliamPitt]

69. My first thought, too

[saracat]

72. See my answer to the previous poster ,Will . I did read it. I originally

was so aggravated that I didn't want to finish it. I went back and read it seriously and was more annoyed. I discuss the article and use quotes from it. I even mention the counter article on Santorum. Both articles irked me. And yeah, I don't appreciate centrism, and I don't want to see a "purple country". And BTW, the first time I heard of that concept was at the 51 Capitol Protest, and the argument was presented to me by a conservative Dem who claimed he was there to see the loonies! Except he called the color maroon! The only color that works for me is blue. We may not get it but if we aim for purple we will end up red!

[saracat]

70. No. I had glanced through it initially and didn't want to read it.

It was making me too angry! But if you read the rest of this thread you will see, I did read it . I even quote from it!

[Radical Activist]

86. Now I see. Thanks for clearing that up

[LiberalFighter]

62. The problem is identifying the center as a place that Democrats are not.

Bullshit... WE ARE THE CENTER!!!!!!!!!

[Hippo_Tron]

64. Lets see his votes in the US Senate

If he follows in the footsteps of say, his senior Senator Dick Durbin, instead of in the footsteps of say Joe Lieberman or Evan Bayh, then I will be quite pleased with him.

[sampsonblk]

93. Dittto

We've heard what he says. I am not impressed at all. But let's give the guy a chance. Let's see what he actually DOES before we pass any final judgments.

[w4rma]

65. When any Dem politician *mentions* something in a religious way

some Dems in the base seem to freak. It's a kneejerk reaction that I think is pretty stupid.

[scbluevoter]

68. Uh not to go all black-white but. . .

white democrats have forgotten over the last 15-20 years that most black americans are very religious. We do, however, know how to separate our selfish interests from the interests of the country though. Like it or not, one of the key constituencies of our party is quite religious. So be careful about blasting all things religious. It's sad that Republicans pick up on that better than Democrats.

[w4rma]

71. My observations concur with yours. (nt)

[saracat]

74. Where do I mention religion?

[saracat]

73. Where do I say ANYTHING about religion?

[w4rma]

75. religious way: going to lead us to our "moral core" (nt)

[saracat]

76. That is religion? You can have a moral core without religion!

I said nothing about religion.

[w4rma]

77. "morals" are religious. "ethics" are philosophical. (nt)

[saracat]

81. For the record, according to Webste'rs Dictionary:

morals: " principles or standards with respect to right or wrong in conduct"

Morals are not about religion.

Religion; "Belief in and worship of God or gods.

I make NO reference to religion.

[w4rma]

82. If it's not about religous morals, then what issue(s) are you worred about

Obama being a "centrist" on? And are you even sure that's what he meant?

[Kahuna]

78. It's not only stupid, but it's counterproductive too...

As is condemning Obama for wanting a purple America.

[Kahuna]

92. "Stupid" is not the word for it. It's waaay beyond stupid...

It's an excersize in futility.

[Logansquare]

79. No, no...let him start legislating

*then* you can hate him :-)

[bajamary]

84. I'm from Illinois. He's the real deal.

Hi all,

I'm from Illinois and I've watched Obama for years in our State Senate. He's the real deal, a progressive and a bright legislative mind.

A tiny grassroots tax reform group that I'm part of had amazingly easy time getting Obama to help our proposal through the nasty legislative maze in Springfield. He was always extremely responsive and right there anytime we needed his help.

Okay, no one is perfect (except a few DUers) but this fellow is the real deal. Arriving in our nation's capitol in a time of a divided nation is another lanky lawyer from Illinois. He is thoughtful, funny and by God, our tiny tax reform bill was actually signed into law. His help was always with our group: trac.org

Best,
Mary
www.4-my-country.com

[maxanne]

98. he is the real deal

and he has close ties to the progressive community in Illinois. He's a remarkable man, who is widely loved and adored in Chicago, by the kind of people we once called liberals, who now seem to be called pinkos and lefties.

[ButterflyBlood]

87. oh trust me, he's a liberal

he's just a good politician. He covers a liberal voting record with moderate record, and is great at selling liberalism to the masses. He did a great job with this in his keynote speech. We definately need more like him.

[Must_B_Free]

91. he's from Oahu

so he has to have his head in the right place.

[quinnox]

94. Same here

I thought Obama's speech was very overrated.

I don't see what is so great about him.

I mean, it is good that there is a new Dem senator from Illinois but beyond that can't get excited about Obama.

[Kilkenny5]

95. Why? Because he's not Maxine Waters?

This is the U.S. Senate.

He has to get along with everyone, whether you like it or not.

Heck, even Wellstone had to play the game as well.

[youngred]

97. perhaps you should read it

his idea of centrism is to couch liberal ideas in centrist language, which is a very effective way of staying true to our beliefs and still winning elections