Why are so many people against the use of anger? Anger is a positive force

[saracat]

The Republicans whipped up the anger in their base and won control over all three branches of government. Why are we supposed to be 'accepting, reasonable and reaching out" to the other side? Why are we supposed to unite with them?
Angry talk show hosts have much more influence than reasonable soft voices. It was the angry progressives that raised the bulk of the Democratic Party's money this year. If we had used their anger , we wouldn't be talking about recounts! I have been told That my anger is "bad" I should be more tolerant. Look who is winning! I think the problem is not that there is too much anger but too little. We should really get angry and not give these people any quarter. They wouldn't , and won't "reach out to, or build a consensus with us. The Republicans view elections as war with an enemy to be vanquished. We view elections as a "debate". Even now,the DNC is talking about "re framing the "debate" ! As though that would work in the face of war! Someone ,please tell me, what is wrong with anger? And why are the Repugs able to use it successfully and we aren't?

[knowbody0]

1. you misspeak these feelings.

use the word "passion"

[saracat]

5. I don't misspeak. I meant "anger" . You can have all kinds of "passion"

but anger is anger. I admire passion as well, but I meant anger.

[MSgt213]

2. We have to be careful not to mimic the republicans everything goes out of

vogue after a while. The angry act that the republicans are putting on (and it is an act), while successful so far will eventually get on more peoples nerves then it appeals to now.

[NV Whino]

3. I think the problem is not that we are not angry, but

that our representatives are not angry. Trust me--I'm mad as hell!

[Silverhair]

4. No. Anger is a motivator, but can be used for good or evil.

It is wisdom that controls anger and directs it. Without wisdom, anger merely lashes out, and is a destructive force.

[AP]

8. Exactly, Anger can be power, if you know how to use it.

If you don't know how to use it, it can be really destructive. Often, it just plays into the hands of the other side.

[saracat]

10. well, then the republicans must use it really well because it certainly

didn't play into our hands! Why can't we use it as competently as they do?

[AP]

18. anger manisfested as anger is an emotion that benefits people who are...

...reactionary.

[saracat]

21. I believe we are now in a situation that calls for "reaction" The strict

interpretation of the definition of "reactionary" is "one who reacts." I think the fact that we haven't "reacted" is why we lose elections. There is no place for turning the other cheek in politics!

[AP]

24. We lose elections because we do a terrible job of articulating what we...

...believe in.

[saracat]

26. That is also true. And we have to sharply define our differences

so we can better articulate our message.

[AP]

29. And angrily definining differences sometimes puts the foucs on emotion

when it should be on the substance of the differences.

[saracat]

35. Substance doesn't cause people to vote!

[AP]

37. Actually it does. People need an argument. Emotion may influence what they

think is important. But the emotion prompts a question that needs to be answered by ideas the candidates present about what they're all about.

For example, Bush scared some people with terror. But that alone wasn't what got them to vote for Bush. What got them to vote for was that being scared prompted the question, "with whom do I feel safer?"

And to quote Sean Michaels, professional wrestler, warming up the crowd at Tinker Field on October 30, 2004: "If your babies were left all alone in the dead of night, who would you rather have setting there on the porch -- John Kerry and his snowboard or George W. with his shotgun?"

Bush prompted a question with an emotion, but he made sure he laid out the argument for voters that helped them answer the questions they were asking with the thought "must vote for Bush."

Now, that might not sound like substance to you, but that is the reduction of a lot of substance down to a simple question and a simple answer. Just because you don't agree with the argument or the evidence or the conclusion, that doesn't mean there isn't substance and there isn't more than just emotion at work.

[saracat]

39. You are right. Your theory isn't bad, but the Bush example doesn't work.

which is where the theory falls apart. There was NO substanive reason to vote for Bush.

[AP]

43. People believed that Republicans would...

...defend them with a hair-trigger -- would shoot first and ask questions later. They believed that the Democrats would ask the UN for permission first and believed there should be a global test.

Check this out: http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=90&ItemID=6902

[Silverhair]

44. To you there wasn't.

But to a lot of people, John Kerry's antiwar Vietnam days, and his meeting with the enemy in Paris during a war, made them afraid that he would sell them out.

Not saying I agree with. I am saying that you have to understand what many people were afraid of. You can't really address and win over voters who are only losely attached to the other side until you understand them.

[0007]

15. One can say the same about love!

[zann725]

48. But the reverse of anger, is depression...when you don't defend yourself

or fight back...as any Rape victim knows.

Inaction is also stagnation, and no 'growth'...personal or otherwise. Then again, that IS the definition of "Conservative," isn't it. No progress, no change...all 1950's, all black-and-white. No women's rights, no abortion, no Civil Rights, no sex out of marriage...ad nauseum (quite literally).

Defending ones' boundaries are fine. As Dem's we've let Repugs define us forever, and therefore 'shame' us according to their "values"...which of course are valueless, and have no "value" at all!

[AP]

51. I think compassion is the opposite of anger.

[Silverhair]

58. Anger without wisdom is ineffective.

My daughter is taking karate, and strength training, so that if she is ever confronted by a rapist, she will have something more than just anger to work with.

[saracat]

9. It needs to direct us toward winning as it has the republicans.

It is the duty of the leadership to channel the anger in that direction and not dilute it into useless acceptance.

[SharonAnn]

34. Yes, that's it exactly! Anger provides the energy but alone, it has

no controlled direction. Wisdom helps aim the anger at the right target.

[neweurope]

6. I'm German and I wouldn't know. BUT

we have conservatives, too. And I used to be a journalist. And wherever I worked: Guess who came visiting us in the office all the time smiling - and offering gifts? Guess who lied to the publisher when he didn't like what we wrote? Guess who said he wouldn't advertise anymore in the paper and his friends wouldn't either when we wrote something he didn't like? Guess who threatened that nobody would EVER advertise anymore and that the publisher would not get the medal he had "coming for him" if a certain too inquisitive editor wasn't kicked out? A conservative every single time.

And guess who just gave us a phone call every once in a while to just ask how we were doing? The Social Democrat of course. A really nice guy. Every Social Democrat I ever got to know was such a nice guy. No Social Democrat I ever met complained to the publisher. No Social Democrat I ever knew tried to use pressure. No Social Democrat I ever knew tried bribery. No Social Democrat I ever knew called the publisher when he was really fed up. And no Social Democrat I ever knew tried or even threatened to get his own newspaper going like the CDU ("Christian" Democrat Union) did time after time...

Compassion. That's what the Social Democrats went for - at least on the local and regional level. I love them for this. And I dislike them for this. Because the personal compassion that each and every one of them displayed was NOT for the good of the whole. A little more anger would have benefited us all - all of society - much more.

[kamqute]

13. AMEN

[AP]

7. Because we grew up with Star Wars?

[Geek_Girl]

64. Yoda Says Anger leads to the Dark Side

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. -Yoda

[kamqute]

11. If you're angry, any actions you take should be authentic and reflect that

but being angry is an unhealthy state that polarizes people, and it'll end up making people more conservative and hurt our cause in the long run. We can use anger, sure, but we should not aim for that. If we really need anger to move forward, what will we do when it dies down?

[kamqute]

12. Besides, it's no fun

You can't be angry in a community of people unless everyone else is angry with you, and it still doesn't work if you try to work within your community.

[saracat]

16. Bingo! You get everyone else angry with you. You keep them angry .

and you win. Winning is fun! And BTW so can anger be. Don't you think it is fun to bash Bush?

[saracat]

14. You don't let it die down. The republicans didn't and they won!

They are still angry. They never stopped being angry after contract with America. Rush feeds their anger every day. And they win!

[rman]

17. sounds very tiresome; "never stop being angry"

-

[saracat]

19. Winning is work but it isn't tiresome.

[twenty2strings]

20. Anger yes, Hate no!

:hippie:

[saracat]

22. On the other hand, they do hate us( or the loudest Coulter types do)

And it works for them It creates an influence!

[ailsagirl]

31. She's a piece of work, isn't she??

She's so angry she's going to give herself a coronary.

Perpetual anger isn't healthy for the system.

Besides, what do they have to be angry about?? They've bulldozed their way to the top!!

They're sick sick sick

[sendero]

23. I've been saying the same thing...

... almost anyway and probably not as articulately :) since I got here.

One of the main reason pukes get their message taken seriously is they deliver it seriously.

People who don't feel strongly enough to speak passionately and sometimes angrily might not ever have much of an audience.

[Cheswick2.0]

25. There is nothing wrong with Righteous Anger

It is mobilizing.

[kamqute]

27. Idiocy, Hashish and Capitalism are also mobilizing

[jarab]

33. I like that.

I suppose that's sorta like the "Christ in the temple" type anger.
...O...

[Sugarbleus]

40. Agreed. Anger for the sake of anger is a waste of emotion...

I've never hated anyone like I do these NEOCONS. I hope this bunch goes away sooooooon, as prolonged hate and anger can KILL you/me. Very bad for the old bod..

I'd much prefer to LAUGH and live w/lightness of heart....Someday soon, I hope. O8)

[kamqute]

28. You can't resolve to have a certain emotion

[kamqute]

30. Anger is part of what we're fighting

[saracat]

36. Actually ,you can create emotion. Every actor and director knows

that. You can also control and direct it. That is what Goebbels knew and the Republicans know. We need to create our motivation.

[kamqute]

41. So let me get this straight..

..you're taking advice from Goebbels and the Republicans?

I know that was a distortion of what you said, but you have to understand I couldn't resist :)--but in seriousness, the fact that you can create emotion doesn't fight my claim--I did not say that you cannot resolve to have a certain emotion as a way of saying it will be difficult to maintaint, but to say that it is difficult to maintain authentically. If an emotion is not maintained authentically, its negative effects are compounded. I think the only expression of anger, a destructive emotion, which can be construed as healthy, is one of true anger that is deep-seated in a person's consciousness. Anger is, in addition to being unpleasant, an expression of fundamental disjunction from the world that needs to be dispelled within the hearts and minds of the wider American community if we are to move forward. By forward I don't mean to someone like Kerry or Dean, but someone like Cobb or Kucinich. They are strident and they express their anger when they feel it, but it is not consistent because it is not manufactured. Anger is polarizing between people and between different facets of a personality and it is polarization that fuels Republican support.

[Cheswick2.0]

46. Cobb and Kucinich can kiss my ass

Dean is more authentic than either of them. So is Kerry for that matter.
I was warming up to Cobb until I got an e-mail from them with the same old blah blah blah about the parties being the same.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[saracat]

50. Very good argument. However manufactured anger can become genuine through

repetition. Many actors in Marat Sade developed symptoms of the mental illnesses they portrayed. I also agree about shrillness Of Cobb and DK. However, their followers are as devout as the Deaniacs. They have something to build on.
I think a better model is the of effect is Sean Hannity, who while being shrill sometimes, is presentable in his anger. He never changes course,even when he is wrong. He follows Disraeli's Maxim, "alway deny it!" We need a tiny bit of Machiavelli as well" the ends justify the means". ( I don't mean in killings or such but we should have fought back with dirt on Bush after the SBVFT).
And as for your first comment, why shouldn't we learn from Goebbels or the Republicans? If they have ideas that can help us win, we should go for it. Propaganda is not new. All political campaigns utilize it to an extent. We should do more of it. The Repugs do so through control of the media. We need to control some media! Otherwise the American voter will continue to think we are almost non existent and the whole Party will be considered a "fringe group"!

[Cheswick2.0]

45. yes you can

[FightinNewDem]

32. As a wise old man once said...

"Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering".

[Obviousman]

38. When ordinary americans get angry

then it will make a difference, until them, I'm mad enough for all of them.
William Donohue

[shance]

42. Anger is the only emotion that will save America.

Americans have grown seduced to the easy route and to being "appropriate" and comfortable. It is the "worm of ease" that will be this countrie's demise. That is their greatest weapon against us because we don't feel comfortable being "angry". Just as "they" must learn to be more compassionate, we must learn to fight, and fight hard, when necessary. What greater time than now.

In order to save this country we have to become courageous and leave our comfortable illusion, which is indeed an illusion, because as long as we live in the fantasy that all is really well and there are those Congresspeople looking out for us, we are in BIG trouble.

We have to learn to fight or we will be like every other passive group that has been erased in the past.

If we choose not to fight, then we allow the bullies to win. We will be responsible for that loss if we choose not to fight.

[zann725]

47. Nothing is wrong with anger..except to those who want you to lose(to them)

That's why Men "trained" Women for centuries to always "smile" and NOT express their anger, or when they DID, to feel shame about it.
I like what Teresa Heinz said about it at the DNC last summer, "...being Opinionated."

And what was the last part of the Gandhi quote: "...then they fight you, then you win." If they don't want us to be angry, they don't want us to fight back...which means THEY'RE on the offensive. So let's put our 'dukes' up and K.O. them without guilt!

[elaineb]

49. Rage Against the Machine: "Anger is a gift"

Don't turn away
Get in front of it

[DrDebug]

52. Anger is a destructive force.

It's very powerful, but it takes away our potential to discriminate and think and therefore it is almost always destructive and amounts to nothing but suffering.

Take a protest of 1000 people and if 10 become angry and violent then watch the media coverage. The 990 will be forgotten and the 10 angry ones will be headline news and usually destroy the motivations behind the protest.

[saracat]

54. Directed purposeful anger is productive.

I agree that the out of control ones will be headline news and perhaps negatively effect debate, but ya know, they will be paid attention to by MSM and will cause debate. Rational discourse gets no attention at all. And any publicity is better than NO publicity!

[UncleVinny]

56. Anger is not justified

No, anger is not justified. (Read "A Course in Miracles")

There is no way to know all the reasons, motivations, and personal decisiions that lead someone to a decision, so there is no way to judge a person, or to know how to respond to someone, even if they are ignorant. The only thing anger does is point the finger and decide who deserves to die. Never a good approach.

A good teacher does not come into first grade and yell at the students because they don't know how to read, but instead starts with the A, B, Cs. Believe me, MANY of these folks in politics are in first grade in a spiritual sense.

[kalibex]

57. You're confusing the message with the action.

Anger is a message that something isn't working.

It's what you do afterwards that counts.

[SemperEadem]

53. People in this county are way too comfortable to be angry

they'd prefer to sit on their couches with the remote control in their hand and be indifferent to how their freedoms are slipping out of their control. I look at the citizens of the Ukraine after the recent election---that's anger. They were in the streets by the thousands. That would never happen here--they'd have to miss their favorite tv program to do that. * has been able to steal 2 elections and folks would rather sit on their butts with their remotes in their hands and watch Survivor than to rally for their rights in the streets.

Purposeful anger, with direction and intent is good. Misguided anger for anger's sake, which the 10 out of 1000 would be about, is not. Like any other emotion, anger can be steered in a profitable direction if one has the discipline to not be reactionary in their anger. However, most folks in this country don't possess enough discipline to be successful in directing their anger in the proper direction.

[moggie12]

55. Amen! (oops, politically incorrect?)

Yes, if Kerry had not been so wimpy and had struck back
forcefully at cheap Republican attacks, he might have won. 
Didn't Kerry camp realize this Presidential race was all about
"toughness"?  How could they be so clueless????? 

[Wiley50]

59. NEVER in Personal Relationships!

As someone who has been manipulated by the threat of (or actual)anger by my sig other in several relationships, I must clarify this.

[hansolsen]

60. Yes. The anger is there, it is real, and it is insane to bury it, deny it

toss it aside, or eat it. We have the same kind of anger that sent Union soldiers into battle at Gettysburg. It is righteous anger. It is right as rain to be angry when your neighbor holds another man in slavery and will not set him free. It is right to be angry when the President lies to the nation and launches an unjust war. People who have no anger for what the Bush Family Evil Empire has unleashed on this nation, are out of touch with their emotions; they are dead really.

There is a great book titled the Four Fold Way, I forget the author's name, that talks about The Warrior, The Visionary, The Healer, and The Teacher.

The visionary is one who "speaks the truth without blame or judgement". So, for example, a parent can be angry with a child doing drugs, and demand that they stop, saying, "you are hurting yourself, and you are hurting me".

But here is what the "Visionary" cannot do (they cannot go into blame and judgement)-- they cannot go on and say, "the reason you are doing drugs is that, "you are evil, and because you are evil, you need to be punished, and because I am you judge, jury, and executioner, I will apply the punishment".

Rightous anger has a place in truth telling, but it has no place in blame, judgement and punishment, for that is where anger itself becomes evil.

[VioletLake]

66. I agree with your point about anger,

but is it possible to be all 4, not simultaneously but selectively?

Sometimes a person needs to be the Visionary, sometimes the Warrior and so on... I suppose it's even possible to be all 4 almost simultaneously.

[hansolsen]

67. The concept advanced in this book, is that the most admired people

in many societies studied by anthropologists, share the same four qualities. True leaders who are admired and not feared, encompass all these traits in one person:

Warrior -- Shows up and is present; extends honor and respect.

Visionary -- Speaks the truth without blame or judgement. Is authentic.

Healer -- Pays attention to what has heart and meaning.

Teacher -- Is open to the outcome, not attached to the outcome.

These are from memory, so may not be exact.

It is, of course very difficult and very rare for one person to be good at all these things.

[LoZoccolo]

61. You have to use it correctly.

Whenever you use it, you should have some sort of plan for how it will get you what you want. An honest, reasonable plan subjected to a more than fair amount of skepticism. It should never be used to gratify onesself, nor should your reasons for using it be twisted to serve that end.

[NVMojo]

62. Anger is good. we need to build on our anger on behalf of the

victims of 9-11 who have still not been vindicated ...on behalf of our dead soldiers from Iraq ...on behalf of our future soldiers who are being put in harms way for a bunch of lying greedy bastards ...get angry and then do something about it!!!

[Geek_Girl]

63. Don't misjudge Anger for Principle

Moderation in temper is always a virtue, but moderation in principle is always a vice. -Thomas Paine

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

65. ANGER IS AN ENERGY!!!!

I've been angry ... These three posts I had to edit a lot of out to contain what would otherwise be a seriously scorpionic rage:

Can you turn "fed up" into "anger" ??

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=206831#206886
It would seem the * admin has been counting on American's "Internal Threat Level" to not rise about 2/5, "yellow" or "darn i hate this and I'm fed up" ... Kick it up a notch to 3/5 or "orange" and I think people will start to publicly protest. Just like them "orange" Ukrainians!

Only god can protect * if the "Internal Threat Level" goes UP to, what is it? Taupe??

And then there is 5/5 ... their worst nightmare.

Speaking of which everyone HAS to see this BBC documentary "The Power Of Nightmares" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/3755686.stm

Basically it states that the "War On Terror"(tm) is a TOTAL rehash of an earlier deception the same fellows pulled back in the 70s called "The Cold War" -- Chilling and totally freak-out quality -- I'd say it's at least a "taupe"!

you can watch the video here:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm

Also if you can use bittorrent (ask a friend to show you), here's a torrent of the video to download to share with friends and patriots:
http://torrentreactor.net/view.php?id=33863

And these:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=202237#207618

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=204427

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x216096

If you're angry and you know it, clap your hands!
If you're angry and you know it, clap your hands!
If you're angry and you know it, AND YOU REALLY WANT TO SHOW IT
If you're angry and you know it, clap your hands!

Anyone clapping yet?