Howard Dean on a woman's right to choose, thread #2.

[madfloridian]

I posted this before, but since several today are again misrepresenting his stances I thought it might be ok to try again to clarify. On MTP he reiterated his stance as pro-choice but he had the nerve to welcome pro-life Democrats who believe in taking care of babies after birth as well. He is one bad guy, that Dean, wanting to include folks with differing views, but not giving up his own.

Individual freedom should apply to abortion decision
I believe that the issue of abortion is a medical rather than a political decision. I don't see how a government regulation that tells doctors how to practice medicine can be supported. Republicans claim that they are the party of individual freedom, but they are the first to tell other people how to live their lives.
Source: Winning Back America, by Howard Dean, p.142-3 Dec 3, 2003

Q: Where do you stand on the partial birth abortion ban?
A: In the four years between 1996 & 2000 there were no late term abortions performed in my state. Late term abortions are very rare and should never be used except to save the life or health of the mother. I just don't think the government ought to be making personal medical decisions for Americans. No respectable physician would ever do a late term abortion except for the most serious reasons. That is why I did not support the President's bill
Source: Concord Monitor / WashingtonPost.com on-line Q&A Nov 6, 2003

Q: Will you rollback Bush's restrictions on stem cell research?
A: Yes. The president's anti-science bias should not be permitted to deprive Americans with Parkinson's, diabetes, and other treatable diseases of the help that they need.
Source: Concord Monitor / WashingtonPost.com on-line Q&A Nov 6, 2003

As a physician, I do not like the idea that Congress or the President think they should practice medicine. Abortion is a deeply personal decision which ought to be made between the patient, the family and physician. It's none of the government's business.
Source: Campaign web site, DeanForAmerica.com, "On the Issues" Nov 30, 2002

The notion of "partial birth abortion" is nonsense. This is a rare procedure used only to save the life or health of the mother.
Source: Campaign web site, DeanForAmerica.com, "On the Issues" Nov 30, 2002

[rabid_nerd]

1. As a Pro-Life Democrat

the basic thing is being open and inclusive not exclusive, which the party has been.

The positions bolded above could be spun to "moderate Pro-Life" as well...

He is not for "legal in all cases":

Q: Where do you stand on the partial birth abortion ban?
A: In the four years between 1996 & 2000 there were no late term abortions performed in my state. Late term abortions are very rare and should never be used except to save the life or health of the mother. I just don't think the government ought to be making personal medical decisions for Americans. No respectable physician would ever do a late term abortion except for the most serious reasons. That is why I did not support the President's bill
Source: Concord Monitor / WashingtonPost.com on-line Q&A Nov 6, 2003

Otherwise, he is a "legal in most cases" type of person. Simply put, what would you do with an "un-respectable physician" doing things that "should never" be done?

This is not to discredit your argument by any means or argue with you.

"legal in most cases" is still closer to "Pro-Choice", whereas I am "illegal in most cases", which is closer to "Pro-Life".

The problem is, by adopting one or the other label, you apply to yourself the litmus test of "legal in all cases" or "illegal in all cases" which is applied not only by opposition to you, but by your own supporters.

I have Pro-Choice people argue they should be able to have abortion on demand up to 8 months 29 days. I wish I was kidding, and I assume it was shock value, but it's an extremist's extreme. Then I have Pro-Life people argue with me that contraceptives should be banned and about forcing rape victims to have children.

I think Dean's position is well reasoned as a Doctor and seriously respectable. It's not a Kate Michelman Pro-Choice by any means.

But it's Pro-Choice.

I do know there are Democrats that want the party and the country to be a 100% Pro-Life country. That is crazy.

We're not 100% either. We're no more than 20% of either extreme with a gooey middle of mostly legal and mostly illegal based on Roe v. Wade and the trimester system and when life begins and when a child is alive.

[madfloridian]

2. His stance is pretty reasonable on late term.

Q: Where do you stand on the partial birth abortion ban?
A: In the four years between 1996 & 2000 there were no late term abortions performed in my state. Late term abortions are very rare and should never be used except to save the life or health of the mother. I just don't think the government ought to be making personal medical decisions for Americans. No respectable physician would ever do a late term abortion except for the most serious reasons. That is why I did not support the President's bill
Source: Concord Monitor / WashingtonPost.com on-line Q&A Nov 6, 2003"

Sounds like his personal decision would be only to save the life of the mother, but that some physicians might consider other serious reasons.

I think it is pretty reasonable.

[janx]

3. He just doesn't want the government making the decision.

Period.

That should satisfy just about everybody.

[madfloridian]

4. Amen. Between a woman and her doctor.

Just like a vasectomy should not be decided by the government. And don't into birth control pills.

[Cheswick2.0]

7. Dean is pro-choice, you are anti-choice

you feel that laws need to be changed. Dean is telling you there are fine the way they are.

[janx]

5. NARAL speech

Gov. Howard Dean
NARAL Pro-Choice America Dinner
Washington, DC
January 21, 2003



Now Vermont is the promised land for you folks . I'm the governor, I was the governor up 'til last week. I served on the board of Planned Parenthood of Northern New England for five years. . When I became governor I had to resign because all--we contracted all our family planning services through Planned Parenthood in Vermont.

We do not hearken to the term "partial birth abortion" in my state because because partial birth abortion is like the word quota. The President used it six times last night. It's a code word. It's designed to appeal to people's fears, to divisiveness. Partial birth abortion is the same thing. .

The truth is I went and checked and tried to figure out, because I was running against a conservative person the last two times I ran. I checked, because I knew this would come up, how many late, third trimester abortions had been done in the state of Vermont in the last four years. The number was--. Zero.

This is an issue about nothing; it's an issue about extremism; it's an issue about appealing to people's fears. It is the wrong thing to do and people who use the term partial birth abortion are leading an America in a bad place. . They are trying to divide us people of conscience; it is the wrong thing to do. It's no more honorable for the President of the United States using the word quota, because he knows it divides us by race and use of the word partial birth abortion divides us by conscience. .

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/interestg/naral012103/dean012103spt.html

[janx]

6. More from NARAL speech

Abortion is connected to civil rights, because the government is so impressed with itself in promoting individual freedom they can't wait to get into your bedroom and tell you how to behave. . And I don't think, as a physician--people ask me what's your position on abortion. It's very simple; it's a single sentence. The practice of medicine is none of the government's business and they ought to stay out of it. . This is a private relationship, this is a private relationship between the physician, the patient and whoever the patient chooses to involve in that position.

[madfloridian]

8. He puts it so powerfully! "This is a private relationship..."

"This is a private relationship, this is a private relationship between the physician, the patient and whoever the patient chooses to involve in that position."

[Karenina]

9. That is the attitude where I live.

I have in a decade NEVER been involved in a discussion about abortion. NEVER. We get into it about politics regularly, these days many are ready to write the Amis off as dumber than dirt. What. Dean. Said.