Is the United States "finished?"

[Guaranteed]

I suppose you can interpret the question any way you like.

Is America done?

My personal opinion- it's over. May as well leave before the Storm Troopers come through.

[NMDemDist2]

1. America is a great Lady who stands now tattered and abused

but she has recovered from "Robber Barons" before and she will again as her people wake to her distress and take to the streets once again

hopefully in my lifetime (I'm 50)......

[boi1946]

2. Not as long as there are people

like Kohn Kerry and Howard Dean and John Conyers and us here at DU and Daily Kos and all of the rest of the "dissidents" who still believe!

[Guaranteed]

3. I don't see any hope because of the media.

The basic foundation of democracy is an independant media. We've lost it, though, and I don't see it ever coming back. It's corporate, and the neocons are blanketing it. In fact, we're nowhere near even being able to get it back to where it was. It's beneath layers and layers....

[bahrbearian]

9. "The Revolution will not be Televised, it will be on the internet. "

[AlinPA]

30. Yes, but importantly, the media has helped to create a "crossfire"

situation. One side against the other. Take no prisoners. Right vs left. No compromise. Totally twisted in favor of republicans. example, creating "conventional wisdom" that Democrats and progressives are anti-God or "pro-abortion" or "immoral", "anti-family", etc.

[babylonsister]

4. Tis the season for faith!

Not much left if you don't have that.:shrug:

[Guaranteed]

6. Well, I believe in the other democracies around the world...

The European ones, in particular.

That's the part that really makes me teary-eyed...we planted this seed, you know, and others followed us...Now we're falling, but they're still there, still going strong.

[Chalco]

5. Financially, culturally and economically---it's over. The

American era is over. We are in transition to another era.

[bush_is_wacko]

7. Actually, I think it is just going through a "re-birth"

There are too many people out there showing thier patriotism for it to be "finished." Take a look at cultures that have been "civilized" for longer than we have. Travel to Europe and you will realize that they have very few laws which tell the citizenry to tow the line. Attend a soccer match over there and you will see what Americans consider mass chaos. But for all intents and purposes these people live much more "feely" than we do! The freepers would like to call these societies anarchal, but really spend time in them and you will realize they are "evolutionary!" They are representative of what society ultimately evolves into when the people do what we are doing right now, questioning our Government! America will I'm sure evolve into an even better system. It's just time for a revolutionary change in our society!

BTW I'm not talking about repressive societies, and I do know some old societies have "evolved" into that type of society as well.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. It's going the way of all empires. Overextended and going broke.

As it tries to control the empire it has created, the cost keeps going up, the colonies are getting restless, it resorts to brute force to keep the peasants in line, and entertains it's people with bread and circuses (or, Starbucks and NASCAR), and convinces them that it's the greatest country in the world.

Sooner or later, the bills are going to come due, and payment will be demanded. In blood, money, or both. My bet is on sooner rather than later.

Hopefully, it will disintegrate quietly, without doing too much damage to the world.

[0007]

10. Amerika has already changed, if things don't shape up fast

we'll soon be a third world country begging China for work.

[stopbush]

11. It's over because

1. We are financially over-extended by our military imperialism. Another lesson of history lost to ten-gallon-hat swagger.

2. The populace of our country is becoming more stupid every second, retreating into the feel-good guilt trip of religious mythology and abandoning logic and science. It's called the brain drain. If you think we've got a trade deficit now, wait 3 years.

3. The EU is the world's emerging powerhouse with China a close second. We've already lost that economic battle.

4. Even if bushco was replaced *today* in toto, they have done decades of damage to our economy, our military and our nation's image. The worldwide hatred that they have seeded and nurtured will not evaporate overnight. It will take decades to get us back to the ground zero of the Clinton years. Unfortunately, the world will move on during that time, and we will be left in the dust, scratching our heads and wondering how god could so desert his chosen people.

We have become the proverbial bull in the china shop, but with malice and intent thrown in for good measure. The last country that acted this way got their asses kicked in 1945. While no one is going to be attacking us any time soon, we may well be ignored into irrelevant oblivion.

[Webster Green]

12. If our votes don't count anymore.....its done...

Fat lady sings on Jan 6th.

We can still fight the fascist bastards and try to get it back!

[indepat]

13. I vote almost there for there is only a 90% chance of an economic

Armegeddon facing the US according to one Wall Street chief economist.

[kostya]

14. Yep, stick a fork in it!

[quiet.american]

15. Manchurian Candidate

Bush is the closest thing I've ever seen to a real-life Manchurian
Candidate. Complete with "a very special relationship" with the
iron maiden mother in the background (that would be the why-bother-
my-beautiful-mind-about-bodybags Babs).

Quote from the original movie from Angela Lansbury as Mrs. Iselin,
the mother, describing the faux heroism of her husband,
the Manchuran candidate:

...and Johnny will really hit those microphones and those cameras
with blood all over him, fighting off anyone who tries to help him,
defending America even if it means his own death, rallying a nation
of television viewers to hysteria, to sweep us up into the
White House with powers that will make martial law seem like
anarchy!"

Mission accomplished.

[DrDebug]

16. It's not done, it just needs to change

The electoral system, military and the media need to change. It was a system that was developed a long time ago and now it's no longer valid. When it was created they forgot about the possibility of a * adminstration coming to power. Now we know what faults there are and what needs to be done.

And the more * and the MSM try to resist, the bigger the counter-resistance will become and eventually a new system will evolve. Just give it some time.

[AlinPA]

31. Welcome DrDebug, that's a positive view. Wish I could see past the

media control and deterioration of thought in the US as in Nascar, TV "reality" and religious fundamentalists control of government.

[IndianaGreen]

17. Hitler became German Chancellor in 1933, but the Holocaust did not start

until five years later, on November 9, 1938.

I know American democracy is dead. Our elections are a sham, just like the ones we used to criticize in the Third World.

We are doomed!

[foo_bar]

27. Bush=Hitler, news at 10!

These Jeremiads are no substitute for canned goods.

[murray hill farm]

18. it is over...but...

we have not accepted it yet...still in the stages of loss..shock, denial,bargaining,anger, depression...then followed by acceptance...this will take some time....but..yeah, it is over.

[femme.democratique]

19. Until Democrats stop ENABLING Democratic leadership...

...enabling them and indeed ENCOURAGING them to maintain their power base at the expense of OUR rights - nothing will change. I hope that the smart people at DU realize that the two-party paradigm is nothing but a power game. They will allow the Repukes much in exchange for the chance of gaining power again. Problem with this is many of us will be dead or imprisoned before they will ever have power again.

[pstans]

20. Cycles of world power

I took a Political Geography class in college and learned about cycles of world hegemony. I don't remember all of the detailsm, but basically the cylces lasts 100 years and dates back to the 1400's or something. The English had back to back cycles in the 1700's and 1800's, then the US took over in the 1900's. Sorry to say that the 1900's are over and so maybe the US's reign is over.

Maybe China or the EU will take control next, or with good leadership the US can regain it.

[LongTomH]

21. The question now really isn't leadership

It's whether the U.S. is going to remain a "First-World" nation or sink into 3rd world status.

On the original question: I don't think the U.S. is really finished yet; but, it's going to take years to dig out of the hole Bush and Co. have dug for us.

[leftofthedial]

22. America ended on 12-12-2000

it is "finished"

perhaps we can start a new one, but the original is "finished"

Gawd Bless Murka

[bemildred]

23. Something else:

The Amercan Empire is finished, it could just be the beginning
for the United States.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

36. That would be great

I'd love nothing more than to see us fall from superpower status and start to concentrate on things that are important such as healthcare, minimum wage, etc.

[Blue-Jay]

24. "done"?

fffffpppppphhpttt.

[meganmonkey]

25. Is -that- how you spell fart?

I had no idea! ;)

[Blue-Jay]

26. It's close enough!

hee hee hee

[Donna Zen]

28. Democracies are fragile

Ours was very wealthy and the bastards were after it for a long time. I suppose the majority of people on DU are still "awake" and struggling to save the ideals our nation was founded upon; however, what Dec. 12, 2000 reflected was a nation composed of the sleeping.

To try to save our democracy was branded as anti-patriotic. A free and responsible press might have helped to save us, but that was not to be. Now the vultures pick over the carcass...first the budget surplus, then came the defense contractors, and now they see that pile of money in Soc. Sec.

Krugman calls it the Great Unraveling. Folks over the next four years they will complete the job, and America, a pale ghost of its promise, will sleep...nothing to see here. The vast majority of the population have either no idea or no concern about the loss of a transparent system of voting.

It is not the few and the greedy, they have always been circling the national treasure; it is the apathetic and uncaring who brought our democracy down. If you are here, count yourself among those who did the right thing which in the end is the only stand to take.

[Nimrod]

29. For a long time now

We just haven't accepted it.

Unless you consider a shadow-government controlled theocratic corporocracy the "United States". In that case, business is booming.

[satori]

32. Yes democracy in the USA is dead

Yes democracy is dead; the country has been sold out by both Dem and the Repug Party in the name of the military-Industrial-complex by means of a shadow secret plutocratic society that showed the world that it existed in Bush v. President Gore. Our democracy officially died via a Supreme Court order in the year 2000.

[Skittles]

33. it is painful to see her downfall

with the support of so many voters too

[ally_sc]

38. it will be painful for awhile...

then there will be a strong rebound. and i don't know what it is going to take for that...who knows??
i for one think there will be some shake up and we are already seeing the tip of the iceberg so to speak. it will be like watergate. bush did not win by a landslide. and we really do not know if he actually won or not. i think it will be an impeachment. just my opinion.

[The Zanti Regent]

34. America is dead

Jesus has overthrown the Constitution.

I see the blue states leaving and Jesusland going into the toilet

[psychopomp]

35. The hard facts are that the political system has failed

and the machinery of democracy has gone kaput. Our government has always relied on the informed consent of the public and, for a short time, that seemed to be working. Money and good-ole American ignorance have cooperated to grab the wheel of this MAC-truck of democracy and turn us off of the road.

The ideal of a democratic and fair land of opportunity and tolerance still exists in the hearts of some but they are outnumbered. The youth are without leadership and face a confusing barrage of "mexed misseges." What will become of those who refuse to let go of the America that we, the people, have strived for? Those for whom the dream lives on in their hearts? Will they grow old and die, leaving the pieces on the gameboard set as they are now?

I voted "something else."

[More Than A Feeling]

37. I'll take "Hell, no" for $500, Alex!

America has survived horrible governments before, and she will survive this one. It has nothing to do with anything material. America is more than just a set of borders. It is a call to the highest ideals that people can aspire to, and as long as they live in the heart of a single person, the dream is not dead. The present difficulties do nothing but breed fanatics for liberty and justice and truth, and they shall not forget. When the time is right, we will take back what is ours, and cherish it all the more for having lost it. American democracy will be even stronger and more vital than ever. This I believe with all my heart, lest faith turn to despair.

[autorank]

40. Welcome to DU!!! I agree.

This sucks and it sucks bad but * and the Republicans are not the nation. There are good things happening all over America and good, honest, hard working people doing them. We will continue despite *. He does not define me or anyone on this forum. His reign is tragic and it's forcing us and others to reevaluate their level of commitment and their strategies and tactics. We survived 6 years of Nixon and he was really intelligent. * the bumbler has failed at everything he's tried. He's on his way out.

[KnowerOfLogic]

39. On it's present trajectory, it's finished; there would have to be a major

ideological revolution to reverse the present descent into a police state. Such a revolution is possible, but not a certainty.