Clueless Assumption: Why isn't Kerry doing anything about Ohio voting?

[zulchzulu]

Kerry Files Motion to Protect Ohio Vote Evidence

Snip:

"This afternoon, an attorney representing the Kerry/Edwards presidential campaign filed two important motions to preserve and augment evidence of alleged election fraud in the November election. The motions were filed in the matter titled Yost et al. v. Delaware County Board of Elections and J. Kenneth Blackwell (Civil Action No. C2-04-1139) with the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Ohio. The document is titled "Motion Of Intervenor-Defendant Kerry-Edwards 2004, Inc. For A Preservation Order And For A Leave To Take Limited Expedited Discovery."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/122804V.shtml

Thanks Will for the report!

OK...everybody...back to your Kerry Bashing paintball guns...

Wait! There's more! You mean Kerry HAS been dooing something since right after the election? No way! No...really?

http://rawstory.com/exclusives/kerry_1216.php
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/985
http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/04/12/ale04101.html
http://blog.democrats.com/node/1605
http://blog.democrats.com/node/850
http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1100169336227680.xml
http://blog.democrats.com/ohio#comment-2915

[dolstein]

1. What do you expect him to do?

Sure, he could pull a Howard Dean and start screaming into a microphone, but that would prove as effective as the Dean meltdown.

The fact of the matter is that Bush's margin of victory is so large in Ohio, and in terms of recount scenarious, the margin is ABSOLUTELY HUGE, that there is simply no way that Kerry can reverse the outcome. Most sane people understand this. But the tin foil contingent at DU continues to bash Kerry for his "inaction."

Election fraud is impossible to prove, absent a confession from one of the perpetrators. Pointing to discrepancies between exit poll results and reported returns doesn't even come close to meeting the legal burden of proof. Again, most sane people understand this. But not the tin foil contingent at DU.

And hey, even if you had an airtight case, how the hell are you going to convince a judge to, in effect, throw out the results of the presidential election, especially with inauguration only a few weeks away?

[Bouncy Ball]

2. Actually I think the OP's title was sarcastic, tongue in cheek stuff.

She/he meant to show he IS doing something.

[OKNancy]

3. I believe

that zulchzulu agrees with you.

[nagbacalan]

4. Sorry to have to admit it, but it's difficult to

fault your argumentation.

[robbedvoter]

5. Fraud taints the election. margin schmargin - re-vote is needed.

When are you people going to understand that it's not a matter of bean counting, but throwing away the whole damn farce? (Ukraine, Romania did it - but what do they know?)

[Forkboy]

9. Yep,another stab at the unwashed DUers

consistancy is good I guess.

[dolstein]

17. Yet another stab at avoiding the truth

Instead of taking a personal swipe at me, why not response to the substance of my post? Since you failed to do just that, I can only assume that you don't have a reasoned reponse, or are simply too lazy to formulate one.

[Forkboy]

23. Or you can assume that I dont feel you're worth one

As you seem to think the only good DUer is one who agrees with whatever you say :shrug:

[Calvinist Basset]

10. Believe whatever you want.

But it's not about the difference between exit polls and reported returns. It's about undeniable evidence of wrongdoing, discrepancies in the voting reports themselves, etc.

If I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, I'll do so with pride. It will be a badge of honor in that it will show that I refuse to be subdued by GWB and his maleficent minions.

:tinfoilhat:

[zulchzulu]

11. Dude...maybe you didn't...um...read...the...um...

Take a deep breath. Ah. Good.

[Zhade]

19. I'd agree with you - if you'd said Kerry has "Joementum".

NT!

[LittleClarkie]

6. Zulu is trying to head off the "Why isn't Kerry doing something" people

at the pass.

Of course, I think Kerry you show up on a white charger with Cheney's head on a pike, and people would still say "If that man doesn't stand up for us, he must be a coward."

(No respect, I tell ya)

[marcologico]

7. so true!

Anything Kerry can do, Dean and Clark could do better, that is if they hadn't washed out ten months ago, LMAO

[LittleClarkie]

8. The pro-life discussion proved to me that Dean and Kerry could say

the exact, EXACT same thing, and Dean would be percieved as "reframing" while Kerry was percieved as "selling out."

Bias, plain and simple. Those who believe in the man see something different than those who do not.

[Forkboy]

12. All candidates supporters are guilty of that

Bias, plain and simple. Those who believe in the man see something different than those who do not.

Even Clark supporters....yep,it's true :shrug:

[LittleClarkie]

14. I've noticed it more with Velcro Johnny

He seldom seems to get the benefit of the doubt. Everything sticks, no matter how absurd. He didn't want to win. He's in cahoots with Skull and Bones. He's an elitist who doesn't give a shit. Everything sticks but the truth.

If the Clark supporter comment was directed at me, then don't let the moniker fool you. I'm more of a Kerrycrat than a Clarkie. Clark was my training wheels.

And I rather like most of the candidates. What I don't like is the circular firing squad.

[Withywindle]

15. LOL!

Velcro Johnny!

It's funny because it's true. And it's sad.

Sometimes I try to empathize with the Kerry-bashers by trying to imagine how I'd feel if, good god, Lieberman had won the nomination. But he wouldn't have. There was no way in hell.

And I have no idea how I'd feel.

I'm with ya. I like most of those guys too. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. They all have valuable roles still to play, IMO.

[zulchzulu]

13. Another excellent article about legal efforts on recount issues/strategy

http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i21election.htm

Part of it is Cam Kerry (John's brother) and the mission on November 5, 2004:

CAM KERRY'S LETTER

I am grateful to the many people who have contacted me to express their deep concern about questions of miscounting, fraud, vote suppression, and other problems on election day, especially in Florida and Ohio. Their concern reflects how much people care about the outcome of this election.

I want to you to know we are not ignoring it. Election protection lawyers are still on the job in Ohio and Florida and in DC making sure all the votes are counted accurately. I have been conferring with lawyers involved and have made them aware of the information and concerns people have given me. Even if the facts don't provide a basis to change the outcome, the information will inform the continuing effort to protect the integrity of our elections.

If you have specific factual information about voting problems that could be helpful to the lawyers doing their job, please send it to (e-mail removed for the story) rather than to me. The election protection effort has been important to me personally, and I am proud of the 17,000 lawyers around the country who helped.

It's obvious that we have a way to go still, but their efforts helped make a difference. Their work goes on.

Thank you,
Cam Kerry

[lojasmo]

16. Don't hold your breath

For any action taken by Kerry at this late date to do any damn good.

he should have been on this four years ago if he wanted to fix the problem.

[Sleepless In NY]

18. Will Kerry be standing with Rep Conyers to protest on 1/6/05?

And if not, why not? I really can't understand why every last democrat wouldn't be protesting with Conyers when the electoral votes are counted. Is it going to be like 2000 when not a one would sign? If so, what's the point of backing any of them anymore?

[baby_bear]

20. If they wouldn't do it then....

I had more or less put it out of my mind until the opening scenes of F911 reminded me of that shame. Not a single one...not either of my Dem senators, not a one. If not then, in the face of a scandalous denial of democracy in the United States, how can we expect one to stand up this time? And if so, who? Not the cowards from 2000. And there are no new ones, only fewer. If anyone, perhaps Senator Byrd; but why was he silent last time? Or Boxer?

I am not going to get my hopes up only to have them dashed again by our own party.

Can you imagine if the tables were turned? You'd have to have a queue for all the Republicans lined up to protest.

I don't get it.

b_b

[Sleepless In NY]

21. baby_bear feel the same way you do but

I guess I want to hold onto the hope that instead of constantly rolling over for republicans, the democrats will finally stand up and fight back. That maybe they learned something from 2000. And you're so right, if the tables were turned the republcans would be lined up in unison, screaming voter fraud. I dont get it either. Seems to be no fight in democrats and it's costing them. So I'll just wait until 1/6 to see what Kerry and the rest of them do. If they can't fight back, I can't fight for them anymore either.

[lojasmo]

24. No, he will not.

I also predict, as after the last election, voter intimidation, and election fraud will soon become a non-issue in the senate.

[malatesta1137]

22. unfortunately

John Kerry is in fact NOT doing enough. He's barely doing something.
He's sitting on so much cash, 42 million, why doesn't he use some of it to REALLY expose the rigging? Technicians are confessing to the crime, what else does he need?

These links you provide should be on CNN, FOX or ABC to have any value. They are not.

Protect evidence? We don't need it protected, we need it exposed before Jan 6. If Bush starts his second term, all this recount efforts and fraud investigations are WORTHLESS. Evil has won.

In a few days, we'll find out if Kerry really wanted to be President and Democrats were not victims of an even bigger fraud than the Diebold machines.

[tgnyc]

25. The most important thing Kerry should have done

is demand a recount. Only then would the national media put its efforts toward reviewing and -- dare we say it -- investigating the various irregularities and problems with the vote. Only then would it be difficult for Blackwell to get away with not appearing at a deposition or not answering Conyers's questions. Instead, he left it to the Green and Libertarian candidates to do his hard work for him.

This behind-the-scenes cloak-and-dagger act of his falls way short of the mark.