Liberals and Conservatives Unite!

[txaslftist]

No. Really. I mean it.

I find the most amazing things on Lew Rockwell's (conservative / Libertarian) website. There is an article by Pat Buchanan of all people, bashing Bush and the neocons on taking us falsely to war, busting his budgetary policies and essentially exposing the naked emperor for what he is, a fraud.

Ron Paul (a republican congressman from Texas) is equally harsh to the Bushistas, and all but supported Kerry for president. There are a ton of other columns posted at the site, and although some spend almost as much time bashing "liberals" as they do the Prez., on several points they seem to all agree:

Iraq was a terrible mistake and a big departure from traditional conservative 'non-entanglement' in foreign affairs.

President Bush's economic policies are crushing the value of the dollar and imposing a drastic debt on our children.

The Christian Fundamentalists seem to have hijacked the Republican party so that it is no longer even remotely "conservative".

You may find that you have more in common with a conservative than you think.

[AntiCoup2K4]

1. I won't doubt that I have something in common with true conservatives

But it's the treasonous neocons who are running BOTH parties, and I will not unite with those unamerican traitors.

[Liberty Belle]

26. True conservatives have more in common these days

with Democrats than with neocons running their own party.

Conservatives want fiscal sanity. Bush spends money like a drunken sailor and has run up the worst deficits in history. Clinton is the only president in recent memory to actually balance the budget.

Preserving natural resources and a clean environment used to be conservative values, back in the era of Roosevelt. Even Nixon established some key environmental policies, but more recent Republicans are more focused on rewarding corporate polluters at the expense of our citizens' health. If the Democrats could get rid of the DLC's corporate influence and get back to standing up strongly for environmental protection, it would be best. Even now, however, the Democrats are still the preferable party from an environmental standpoint.

I doubt many rank-and-file Republicans want to see Grandma and Grandpa eating cat food in their golden years. But Bush and the neocons want to destroy Social Security under the guise of privatization (ie, legalized gambling with our retirement funds). Democrats continue to care far more about the elderly, the poor, and the sick than Republicans. Democrats also offer more for working people.

Scariest of all for many conservatives and Libertarians is the destruction of civil liberties that the neoconservaitves have embraced. Under the new security measure just passed, any of us--citizens included--could be hauled away and jailed indefinitely, perhaps forever, without a trial, a lawyer, or even notification to our loved ones of where we've gone. The neocons have also taken control of the mass media, via GOP-controlled corporations that now own the TV networks, cable news stations, and nearly all talk radio outlets in America, dramatically filtering our news. These are classic tactics used by fascist states to control the populace and disseminate propoganda.

I continue to be baffled as to why more Republicans haven't seen the light regarding the radical change in their party. I believe that if more understood what's really happening, they would abandon the GOP in droves.

[renaissanceguy]

37. It seems the true conservatives

are Libertarians. They want minimal government---minimal regulation of our businesses AND our personal lives. They champion individual liberty and a free market. Whether you agree with them or not (esp. on fiscal issues), they want the same government we had when this country started. And they support a separation of church & state.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.15841637

[jonnyblitz]

2. umm... i think you might want to check out some of the other views

of these people you are so anxious to embrace. I will pass thank you very much. :eyes:

[txaslftist]

5. Oh, don't mistake me... there are a lot of nuts in with the ...

crackerjacks. I'm not arguing that point. What I was getting at is that 'true conservatives' or purists, if you like, seem as disgusted with the neocons as liberals are. Also, I recognize that among the many columnists is Anne Coulter, the concentration camp guard wannabe, so obviously you have to exercise some discernment. Still, GWB's followers don't all seem to walk the same goose-step, and that's encouraging.

[jonnyblitz]

10. I hear you...

I just wish the conservatives that you mention who we can make common ground with on certain issues had some sway in their party. :hi:

[Paleocon]

12. That's the problem...

The NeoCons have accomplished something of a coup and there aren't any "real" conservatives that have the president's ear...

[WithStamina]

3. I am a conservative

However, I'm a true conservative, which implies not a Bush conservative. Until the Republican party is rid of Bush's cronies, I'm siding with you folks: the opposition party.

[txaslftist]

6. and welcome to you!

[Liberty Belle]

7. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Welcome, friend!
Here's to your wisdom in understanding the danger that the neocons pose to all of our futures.

:toast:

[AntiCoup2K4]

18. If only we were one

...an opposition party, that is :(

[Hippo_Tron]

19. Question for you, if you could pick any Democrat to be the nominee in '08

Who would it be? Welcome to DU, btw.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tsuki]

23. For years, I said that I felt the Democratic Party left me, so I supported

third parties. It is refreshing to hear someone on the Republican side feel the same way.

In the end, it's not about "traditional values" or "moral values," it's about personal values.

[Raiden]

29. Welcome to DU WithStamina!

:toast:

I can live with TRUE conservatives... from such a broad range as Paul O'Neil, Pat Buchanan, Barry Goldwater, etc. Although I forget it sometimes, true conservatives are our allys. We are both in a fight against neo-cons, reactionaries, and fundamentalists.

[Paleocon]

4. They call me Paleocon...

I find more interesting conversation and debate here than I do at FreeRepublic... I can't seem to stay on that site for more than a day without getting banned...

It's happened more than once, I don't think they want me back...

[Liberty Belle]

8. Paleocon, are you a Rep, Dem, Lib, or ???

Welcome to DU, whatever your political stripes.

[Paleocon]

11. Thanks!

I'd probably be considered a Libertarian first, a Paleoconservative second...

I like DU because I don't get banned like I do from FreeRepublic...

Plus I think the posters here are more mature and are better debaters. The idiots at FR like to post back and forth to each other about how smart they are and if someone brings up an opposing viewpoint they get all cranky and work to get that person banned...

(don't ask me how I know...)

[Liberty Belle]

25. I'd take it as a badge of honor to be banned by the Freepers.

There are some true crazies over there.

[janx]

14. You know what I find strange?

People at FR refer to Pat Buchanan as a paleocon. But my parents were old Goldwater Republicans, and to me, Buchanan is no paleocon.

So it really illustrates just how much parties and ideologies have changed.

The old labels don't fit anymore. That's why so many conversations, even here at DU, go so awry so fast!

[Paleocon]

16. Very true...

I'd be happy to see Barry Goldwater right about now...

[itzamirakul]

35. Barry Goldwater was an avowed racist...

Oh, don't tell me, I know...he apologized for his incredible bigotry later when he wanted to be president and he even dragged out some old black folks to swear he was a good man at heart even though he didn't want them to eat at the local diner or sit at the front of the bus.
I mean, a heartfelt apology for a lifetime of cruelty, really makes up for everything, doesn't it?

And, yes, yes,...I KNOW that Senator Byrd used to belong to the KKK.

But to wish for Barry Goldwater is like slapping the face of every black person in the Democratic Party. But then, there are too many black people in the Democratic party anyway. That's why there are so many Republicans.

[gizmo1979]

9. afraid not.

Not while I'am still breathing!

[txaslftist]

13. please don't think I'm advocating 'reaching out'.

I think what is happening is that the conservatives are discovering that their party hijackers have no traditional conservative values whatsoever and have completely abandoned fiscal responsibility, noon-interventionism, state's rights and a host of other non-fascist ideas. Meanwhile the democrats have remained relatively true to their principles. We need to remain the party that is uncompromisingly liberal so we don't look like just another sell-out party like the republican party has become.

Real conservatives are starting to learn that they are actually quite homeless in our present two-party system.

[janx]

15. Most of them discovered that during the Reagan years.

And many of them have died, too, unfortunately.

[Geek_Girl]

17. I agree

I find I have more in common with old school conservatives these days even more so than the neo-dems. At least the paleocons didn't support Iraq. I just wish the few that are left in government would stand up to the Bush administration.

[Debs]

20. Unite with conservatives?

Couldn't I just stick a red hot poker in my eye?

[ulysses]

21. if conservatives want to make nice

they can come vote with us. End of story.

[tsuki]

22. I am sorry. I have seen the Republicans for Kerry site during the

election, and I know that there are Republicans that do not support Bush. But Pat Buchanan, I have no respect for that hypocrite. May he oppose Bush and by so doing, disappear from the national scene.

[janx]

24. Pat Buchanan is not a conservative. If anything, he helped to

hijack the Republican party from the old conservatives by prophesying the "culture war," which was little other than a plea for the merging of church and state.

[janx]

27. I've mentioned this before, but I like a lot of what I've read

about Ron Paul. Buchanan I can't stand.

If Ron Paul were likely to support any Dem though, I would have suspected Howard Dean, since he was the most outspoken on all three of the matters you mention, and you could carry a firearm everywhere in his state except in a school...(and it is illegal to shoot at a deer from a vehicle, he joked, because it wouldn't be fair to the deer). He wanted to leave the AWB in place but leave the rest to the states. (I know there are definition problems in the AWB--that's another story.)

I sometimes wonder if that wasn't why some of the Beltway Dems were so anxious to take him down. One heck of a lot of people agreed with him.

[Tinoire]

28. I will willingly unite with true conservatives

and anyone else fighting the neo-cancer that is eating away at both parties.

It took me a while to understand that Conservatives are not the demons they were painted out to be.

This is why I get LIVID over wedge issues when we have non-negotiable issues such as free trade, education & health-care to worry about.

[LetsGoMurphys]

30. bull

These supposed "true conservatives" pulled the lever for * on Nov. 2nd

[Tinoire]

31. Depends how you define conservative.

The true conservatives I know are closer to me in thought than quite a few "liberals". We have reached a point where only conservatives and progressives are paying attention to the details anymore.

Every single conservative I knew knew that this war was bunk brought to us by our neo-conservative and neo-liberal friends.

Do not make the mistake of confusing neo-conservatives with conservatives. They don't and they've been speaking out for a long time. Trouble is they've been as drowned out by their hijacked party as we've been by ours.

Some of them sat out this election. Some voted for Kerry as the lesser evil and others voted for Bush because he was "the devil they knew" as opposed to a flip-flopper they didn't.

Kerry supports the same neo-liberal policies that brought us support for this war and disastrous agreements like NAFTA and WTO. I can understand their concern and could respect their reasoning no matter how vehemently I disagreed with their conclusion.

[sadiesworld]

43. Yep...

we're fringe-fighting our way into a banana republic and there are plenty of dems who know it (and like it).

[T Town Jake]

32. Thanks, but...

...no thanks. eom.

[Pushed To The Left]

33. Liberals, moderates, moderate conservatives, greens, etc.

should all UNITE to destroy the hardcore radical right!!

[itzamirakul]

34. So, why don't those disgusted conservatives unite with

us? If we decide, ok, we are going to unite with THEM, then they will have succeeded at their master plan of totally swallowing up the Democratic party.

If they are unhappy with the leader they fought so hard to put into office, then let them come over to OUR SIDE.

Hell, I am tired of always being on the side that has to compromise. Can you name one single point on which the Republicans have compromised?

I am always suspect of these posts that urge "uniting" with the opposition because "we may be more like them than we realize." That means that you are willing to admit to having racist, bigoted, intolerant values.

[txaslftist]

36. Depends on who is the opposition

The point I'm making is the the 'true conservatives' or 'paleocons' or whatever you might call them have more in common with the democratic party than with the current, hijacked republican party. I'm not advocating a compromise of OUR positions. True conservatives would feel more at home in the democratic party -with its present positions- than in the republican party as it is currently composed. These people hate what Bush and his ilk are doing to the country and to the republican party, but they are powerless to change it. If they voted democratic they would actually be voting closer to their true positions. All I'm really advocating is that we communicate and clarify our likenesses.

I guess the header is misleading, what I meant was not, "Hey let's unite with conservatives!" so much as I meant "Wow. Conservatives are united with us on a lot of issues.-ie, we have a lot in common.

[itzamirakul]

40. While your heart might truly be

in the right place, do I need to remind you that these people have brains? They are not stupid. They can SEE what Bush and his gang are doing, yet most of them voted for him anyway. What kind of clarification can we give them when they obviously do not WANT clarification about ANYTHING that has to do with leaving the Bush camp.

And, they are NOT powerless. They had the power of the vote on Nov. 2 and they used that power for Bush. They had the power to stop him just by changing who they voted for.

What do you suggest that we do? Run a magazine or tv ad saying, "Hey, you conservatives who hate Bush and his policies but voted for him ANYWAY, come on over to our side?" They know how to make their own decisions.

And I am not willing to compromise any more than we have already done just to get a few conservatives on our side. IMO, we already HAVE a bunch of Republican planted DINOS running the DLC/DNC.

[theboss]

38. Unite with Buchanan? No thanks....

Just because he's right on the war does not mean he's correct on anything else. Pat's still getting comfortable with the fact that women have the right to vote.

[rman]

41. unite for the purpose of getting the neocons out. (period)

once that's been done Dems and Repubs can again celebrate their differences.

[theboss]

42. I believe someone made a deal like that with Mao once

It didn't work out in the end.