Does anyone else think we need to form a new Party?

[Amy6627]

I am so sick and tired of Democrats trying to be all things to all people. I just heard that the DNC is talking about changing its stand on abortion, and wanting Hollywood to police itself more to try to pander to the "family value" folks.

I have been a democrat all my life. I was raised by Dems. But after this election I really think the DNC is either stupid or all part of the "Rep" plan to make us think we have a choice when we really do not.

I think we need a party that has specific stands on all issues and speaks them loud and clear all the time. Stands for civil rights for all and screams at the top of their lungs when these rights are violated. Not a party that screams sometimes or not at all if they think they can not win. Injustice needs to be called whenever it happens!

I am so disappointed in all elected Dems that are not standing up and speaking out about all the tricks and fraud that happened in the past election. Every Dem should stand up on Jan. 6th. not just the ones that have nothing to lose.

Look how Howard Dean came out of nowhere and raised record amounts of money! I think we could do it again. I would change my Party affiliation in a hot second for a group that stood up for all injustice ALL the time!

[seito]

1. No

[atreides1]

3. Why Not???

[seito]

13. Reform what you got

That would be great. Splitting the Democratic base is a recipe for disaster. A viable third party would have to pull voters from both the Democratic AND the Republican Party. If not, well, you do the math

I think most DUers that threaten to leave the Democratic party are hoping to form or join a party that would only serve to split the Democratic party.

We need to put pressure on the politicians that we have. We need to support politicians that will stand for the values that we support. We can do this at the local level on up. We have heroes today within the Democratic party. While I appreciate the works done by the GLIBs, I also appreciate the work that is being done by the Democrats.

I do not intend to change party affiliation. I do intend to take a more active and vocal role in holding my representatives accountable. If necessary, I will support other candidates that I feel will better represent our Democratic interests.

[Amy6627]

26. Reform what we got is a great idea,

but it seems like the DNC doesn't listen to us. It looks like they lick their finger and see which way the wind blows whenever they do anything. The things they are suggesting seems like they are they ones splitting Dems. They want us to be Republican-Lite. I think the DNC needs to be a clear choice from the Repubs. A party that is anti-Repub. That calls out everything the NeoCons do as anti-American and anti-Democratic. Maybe it's just the media, but I don't hear Dems speaking up about important issues.

[Amaryllis]

30. And they need to fight aggressively to save our elections if they want us

to continue to support them, like the Glibs are doing.

[Freddie Stubbs]

31. Are you a precinct committee person?

If not you should run for that position. Then in a few years you should run for a position on your state's Democratic committee. That is the body which elects the membbers of the DNC. Those who are on the DNC have paid their dues with years of service to the party.

[Amy6627]

37. Where do I find out about doing that? n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

40. Contact your county Democratic party

[Bandit]

81. And their wallets are full of corporate money to prove it.

As another poster put it about Democrats ---"their "incompetence" borders on treason."

[EFerrari]

33. Every time Dems move to the middle, the Right moves righter

I left the party after the 2000 election, out of sheer frustration. So take my opinion with a pillar of salt.

But, starting a new party sounds like you get to go through the whole developmental stage -- and all the developmental mistakes.

That's proabably not helpful.

Thing is, it looks to this amateur observer as if the party is trying to cut their losses -- and risks cutting their strengths in the process. Starting with my rep, Pelosi.

Time to stand and fight, folks. And the indys and Greens would probably join a federal push. But at this point, we need to see some backbone. Or at very least, to simulate it. / frustration, sarcasm, hope

[seito]

56. Hmmm...You don't hear Dems speaking up..

Could it be the corporate media whores?

Nah, methinks they always tell the troof. LMAO

[KnowerOfLogic]

59. What do you mean by "holding them accountable?" I heard this alot

wrt the ABBers who weren't really happy with kerry, but they said 'let's elect him and then hold him accountable.' But how do you hold a democrat accountable if they know that you will *always* vote for them, when it comes down to it? That is the definition of no accountability. The only solution is for sell-out dem incumbents to be challenged in the primaries, and if the sell-out gets renominated, vote third party.

[Amigust]

71. The most effective function of a third party is to put pressure

on the party that is second in power. As long as there is no thorough and genuine electoral reform, future elections will continue to be hatched just the way the Repukes want them, in greater measure.

I don't think there is any point continuing to support a right moving Democratic Party, especially when they haven't a snowball's chance of winning in a GOP-controlled electoral system.

So I am more inclined to put my support behind the folks in the Green Party who have demonstrated the balls to fight this grand theft of American Democracy. If enough people let the DNC know they were putting their money where their mouth is and moving out, maybe the DNC just might get serious about real reform away from the right.

If things actually ever do swing again to favor American Democracy, which I doubt will happen in my lifetime, then I would respond in the voting booth as I saw most appropriate to that election.

[Time for change]

54. It would split up liberals/progressives so bad

The Republicans would have a free ride.

[Andromeda]

29. I second that.

No, a thousand times, no.

[Brundle_Fly]

2. yeah

a fake republican party, so totally right wing it would split the reds, and leave the 50% dems have the majority.

dems 50%
repukes 33%
insanity DU fake party 25%
greens 2%

I am totally up for playing the role of crazed christian leader.

[seito]

4. I would buy into that

Split the repukes, kinda like Perot did :)

[mycatforpresident]

34. Bull Moose party...

I had this conversation with another DUer recently, and he suggested bringing back the Bull Moose Party. If this is the direction you're thinking of.

[Shanty Oilish]

6. I totally support you, crazed leader

We do need a wedge party to split the Repug votes. Let us be Wedgies.

[Brundle_Fly]

8. duh

don't vote for me the crazed leader....

support the dems, just help my campaign.

[Shanty Oilish]

11. duh back

I didn't say I'd vote for you, I said I support you. :)

[Amy6627]

22. This is the 21st Century,

they should be the Atomic Wedgies!

[KansDem]

25. Can I be Kool-Aid monitor?

Please, oh great CCL! Please...!

[mirandapriestly]

36. You have my support

excellent idea. You can get ideas for your platform over at free republic.

[Goldeneye]

5. Is it possible to form a group

like the DLC, except it would be based on grassroots activity with local chapters that are in contact with a big central hub? The local chapters would ensure our voices are heard and I think they'd be more effective than the dumb asses in the DLC at relating to the people. It is our fricking party not theirs and I'm sick of having no say in what my own party does.

[Amy6627]

14. Yes, that is what I was thinking. n/t

[secedeeconomically]

7. Unfortunately the deck is so heavily staked against

a third party it would be nearly impossible to win. The system is so heavily slanted towards the 2 party system, all you would do increase the margin Rebubs win by. The core base of the Rebubs, doesn’t care about facts and world standing. All they want to hear is that you will end abortion, bring back Ozzi and Harriet on TV and arrest every one at the NY Times. That’s all it takes for them to win. My friend this has become a situation of voting while holding your noise. Because they both smell bad.

[politicaholic]

9. The Ultra Conservative Christian Party...

Split their base and conquer. UCCP, has that soviet ring to it doesn't it?

[Brundle_Fly]

12. the

Neo Political Conservative Action Party.

Take
Outlawing abortions, no Hollywood, no gays, no democrats, no liberals, no moderates.
Add some
inclusive religion, faith based trade, nuclear fence initiative, free slave trade with mexico...

add a dash of Attorney General / Pope.

[politicaholic]

15. hmmm...hetero-Mexislaves...intreguing...Do you have a brocure?

[Amy6627]

17. I really like the idea of splitting up the Reps!

I think your NPCAP is just what the red states would love! I think Lincoln made a mistake when he didn't let them secede!

[Vektor]

23. HAHAHA

"Faith Based Trade"

Love it!

How about "No civil rights after birth."

[Brundle_Fly]

42. we could just run a fetus. n/t

[Turn CO Blue]

48. ROTFL! That struck me as hilarious!

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BulletproofLandshark]

10. There Does Need To Be A New Party, But...

I would prefer that instead of Democrats breaking off, the GOP would splinter into 2 factions. One would be for the fascists, pseudo-Christians, and war profiteers, and the other would be made up of Republicans that would at least be open to negotiating w/the other side of the aisle (people like Lincoln Chafee and Olympia Snowe come to mind). Compromises would still have to be made to pass legislation, but that's what democracy is supposed to be, plus the far-right would be marginalized into irrelevance.

[VTGold]

16. Yes, if only to scare the bejesus out of the DNC! n/t

[You do not need that]

18. Local level reform

You must begin small.

[merh]

19. No, I think you might want to find a new hobby

:shrug:

[Vektor]

20. I'll stay in the party IF...

We do NOT conform to the demands that we "change our stance" on anything. If we start questioning a woman's right to chose, and leaning right to appease the masses, I am OUT OF HERE. Also, election fraud must be loudly and aggressively addressed.

If we do not bitch slap these election fraud perpetrators and corrupt, Bush-bought judges that are allowing it to happen back into shape, we should start the "Liberal Revolution Party" and we'll show em' how it's done.

Liberals? Passive?

Watch me.

[Amy6627]

27. That is exactly how I feel. n/t

[Vektor]

28. Then the "LRP" has two members!!

:toast:

[ClassWarrior]

53. Join your fucking county party. Make damn sure they don't moderate our...

...values!!

Progressives?? Passive?? You're spouting a load of macho bullshit if you're not already planning to join your county party.

NGU.

[libertypirate]

21. This is not a party problem,

this is an american problem.

[RaulVB]

24. No!

You need to take back the Democratic Party.

[anaxarchos]

32. I just got here... I'm staying.

I think the two party system is a racket - it reduces and has reduced democracy to a mere figure of speech.

I hate the democratic party. I think more than any party in the world, they have advanced a culture of smug surrender.

I haven't forgotten that the democratic party was the party of slavery. I remember too well that George Wallace and Lester Maddox were democrats. I still get ill about the crap I used to hear about how the party couldn't be too far ahead on civil rights or it would lose the dixiecrats and thus lose elections.

I am still pissed off about Chicago '68 and about how RFK (no icon of mine) hijacked Gene McCarthy and the anti-war movement because he was so much more "electable" (not too different from what Kerry did to Dean, actually). I am still pissed off about Democrats openly sabotaging McGovern.

In the last 30 years, I have been a Democrat exactly twice; both times to work for Reverend Jackson in the primaries.

So I should be for a new party, right? Nah.

What changed was that I watched THEM declare a war of extermination on the Democratic Party six or seven years ago. The best racket in town and all of a sudden the Republicans can't live with it anymore.

So, NOW I'm a Democrat... and I ain't leavin.

When they hand out the nice designer T-shirts with the NRA targets on the back, I can't stand the thought of not getting one.

[SheilaT]

35. No. We need to take the

Democratic Party back over from the ground up.

Become a precinct committee chair person. Run for local office. Help out in the campaign of someone else running for local office. Raise money for candidates. And so on and so forth.

(I'm a precinct committee chair and I ran for the state legislature this year. I lost, but at least the voters got to see a name with a D after it on the ballot for the first time in six years.)

[the ether]

38. The DNC is afraid of taking a stand......

I'm so sick of 90% of the Democratic Party. They can't take a stand on most issues that matter and thus not creating a real opposition party that trys to form their own strong issues, rather than just being politically correct and unoffensively in the middle, which people can't really rally around.


The DNC is backed by most of the same corporations that fund the Republicans.

Howard Dean showed the DNC and the nation that people want something-someone who is not afraid to stand for something and who doesn't necessarily want to play it safe.

The DNC is probably to hooked on their corporate paymasters to take a hint though.


I feel so used that I gave my vote to John Kerry and have him not demand recounts and more investigations into the election, LIKE HE SAID he would do. I'm from CA, so next time i'm voting Green.

The only thing better than starting your own party is to push for more states to go for Instant Runoff Voting or other alternatives.

[WilliamPitt]

39. OK, a few things to do first

1. Come up with a name that isn't taken;

2. Find people to fill leadership roles who actually have some kind of executive experience; firebrand speakers won't get it done;

3. Raise money;

4. Raise more money;

5. Raise more money;

6. Raise more money;

7. Raise more money;

8. Raise more money;

9. Raise more money;

10. Come up with a reason for people to go along with you, as opposed to going along with already-established third parties;

11. Come up with a way to win one - just one - Electoral College vote in a national election; to wit, do what hasn't been done in a long, long time;

12. Prepare to spend the next 30 years doing all of the above before even coming close to achieveing any goals.

[IStriker]

41. Yes, unless we can snatch the party back from DNC crooks.

[European Socialist]

43. I Agree

WE need three parties- Repuke, Repuke Lite, and people who want lifestyles of the rest of the Industrialized World. Sane people.

[pauldp]

44. Poor David Cobb gets no respect.

Without him this election fraud movement would be NOWHERE and yet I've not seen one mention of him in this thread, and rarely a nod for him here at DU. The Greens are that third party we need. I was Green, I switched to Dem for the past two elections and now I'm switching back.

[illflem]

46. Lesson in third party history

The Bull Moose Party,
formally PROGRESSIVE PARTY, U.S. dissident political faction that nominated former president Theodore Roosevelt for the presidency in 1912; the formal name and general objectives of the party were revived 12 years later. Opposing the entrenched conservatism of the regular Republican Party, which was controlled by Pres. William Howard Taft, a National Republican Progressive League was organized in 1911 by Sen. Robert M. La Follette of Wisconsin. The group became the Progressive Party the following year and ran Theodore Roosevelt for president; it called for revision of the political nominating machinery and an aggressive program of social legislation. The party's popular nickname of Bull Moose was derived from the characteristics of strength and vigour often used by Roosevelt to describe himself. The Bull Moose ticket polled some 25 percent of the popular vote. Thus split, the Republicans lost the election to the Democrats under Woodrow Wilson. The Bull Moose Party evaporated and the Republicans were reunited four years later.

http://www.search.eb.com/elections/micro/92/6.html

[pauldp]

61. The Republican Party was originally a third party.

They left the dying Whigs.

[NoPasaran]

80. Actually more a fusion of third parties

Elements of the Northern Whigs
The Liberty Party (anti-slavery)
The American Party (the "Know-Nothings)

[DrGonzoLives]

77. Actually

Bednarik and the libertarians jumped on the Ohio thing quickly as well.

[clancydog]

83. Libertarian is the Third Party I frequent

since the Democratic leadership is do-nothing. Libertarians are socially liberal and fiscally conservative like me. I'd like the government to help people who need it, but its obvious we select only people who help themselves. Votes for a stronger Libertarian party would mostly come from the Repukes. I gave assorted Democrats several hundred dollars this year and feel that I've been used. Flame away...

[Turn CO Blue]

45. The purpose of third parties is to force the other two parties

to consider new arguments and positions on existing or new issues. Period. The founding fathers never envisioned a multiple-party government. Democracy works best with two opposing parties, with outside influences refining and polishing those two...

I don't feel that we need to form a new party - we merely need to form a new leadership council for the existing Democratic party. Why should the Democrats be run by a handful of old corporate-influenced dinosaurs? Isn't it ironic that a mere few are making decisions about the agenda of the "people's party"? Shouldn't they let us all vote...you know, make it more, er..."democratic" or something? Okay, that's naive.

But I still feel that it would be better to follow Dean's example with DFA, get some progressive leaders to form their own advisory panel, and make the DNC irrelevant (I mean, more irrelevant than it is).

[GraphicQueen]

47. Does anyone else think we need to form a new Party?

YES...YES....YES and even more than one more strong party. The two party system does not work at all.

[Turn CO Blue]

50. Yes. Like posts 2 and 7.

[ClassWarrior]

51. Yes, there's the real plan - divide us into lots of small, powerless...

...parties so that the Radical RW can commit their crimes unchecked.

Smart.

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

49. Why not form a circlular firing squad? It'd be easier.

Or else just join your damn county party, become an officer, and GET TO FUCKING WORK.

Dammit, Patsy Stone said it right in another thread - DEMOCRACY ISN'T EASY, PEOPLE. DEAL WITH IT.

NGU.

[seito]

57. "Democracy-It's Hard Work"

Hey CW :hi:

[ClassWarrior]

58. Hey Warrior Princess!

:hi:

NGU.

[seito]

60. Did you hear the latest about 'Kathy'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x166483#207620

WHAT ARE THEY HIDING

[ClassWarrior]

62. A poet too...

:7

Wow. You're talented.

"Kathy" - <LOL>

NGU.

[seito]

63. Nah, that was Bleever's work

I could only hope to be so creative

[Rockerdem]

70. You have it right

Complain only if you are working hard already. Otherwise youre just venting aimlessly. Unfortunately, theres a lot of that.

[Generator]

52. Yeah maybe one that gives a shit if Black folks can't vote

It's all that's on my mind these days. It ENRAGES me that there is no fair and equal access to voting in America.

Is this 1964 or 2004?


Yeah maybe one that doesn't have it's head up it's ass and realizes the way to win an election is to count all the votes and get all the people that you can to vote for you!!!!

FUCK how complicated is that?

It's not rocket science.

Watch those Ohio videos and you fucking well know Kerry would be President elect right now if those Black people no one talks about and no one cares about got a chance to vote in a fair and timely manner.

It's BLACK and white. (and hell I'll add the POOR white, and the YOUNG college kids too-they had their votes try to be supressed too)

[Kellis]

55. No....

Why would my affiliation change because the other side commited fraud and it is damn hard to prove it?Get a backbone and fight for the Democratic Party-if it isn't what you want it to be then MAKE it what you want it to be and quit whining about it.

It is rather offensive to see this type post at the DEMOCRATIC Undeground-atleast it is to me.



I am a Democrat.End of subject.

[Amy6627]

68. I am not suggesting that I don't want to be a Democrat

because the Reps committed fraud, (among other things). I am just angry at the way the Democratic leadership doesn't seem to be doing anything about what happened in this past election or in 2000.

I posted the question to other Dems because I want a party that stands for what the Democratic Platform says they do. I just joined the DU after this past election because I wanted to communicate with other people that were as outraged as I was. Most of the posts here have some very insightful writers. We need people from this organization to lead the DNC. I am afraid the Democratic party is starting to turn away from its core beliefs, like pro-choice.

It just seems to me that the DNC is too concerned with what the media or the Reps will say before they do anything.

[understandinglife]

64. 1st order of business; save the franchise; that is not a 'party' issue...

....it is the responsibility of every citizen who understands and is committed to the Constitution of the United States of America.

Plenty of time to worry about 'party' once the heavy-lifting of saving our franchise of democracy from being demolished.

Peace.

"It's 7 Jan 2005; do you know who is president?"

[AmerDem]

65. depending how Jan. 6th goes

That might not be a bad idea. It might be a very good thing to have a new party from scratch with none of the so called Dem. leadership we have now involved. I think many across the board would be drawn to anything that isn't more of the same.

[berniew1]

66. It wouldn't change that much, unless there is reform like instant runoff

We still have the same people in the country, whatever you call the parties. And parties are bureaucracies after a point. Education and reform is an answer. No new party is likely to win an election anytime soon.

[NVMojo]

67. I am tired of the whiners and complainers. Can we just keep the action

people?

[Lexingtonian]

69. No, but you can form your own 'caucus', i.e. sub-Party

I am so sick and tired of Democrats trying to be all things to all people. I just heard that the DNC is talking about changing its stand on abortion, and wanting Hollywood to police itself more to try to pander to the "family value" folks.

Well, the way to better ideas in politics is to start with all possible ones and eliminate all the inviable ones. Yeah, it's too close to inventing the wheel one more time for it to be fun, but it may be the only way. After all, the goal is end up wedging off and convincing moderate Republicans to cross over and vote our way.

I have been a democrat all my life. I was raised by Dems. But after this election I really think the DNC is either stupid or all part of the "Rep" plan to make us think we have a choice when we really do not.

OTOH, this sort of debate and the route it takes- your response to it all, for example- tells the Party leaders what sort of a base of support they have to work with. I'll say that your response is the kind of thing that is the one that reassures them in a lot of ways: you believe it's a thing that has gelled, that has a center of its own.

I think we need a party that has specific stands on all issues and speaks them loud and clear all the time. Stands for civil rights for all and screams at the top of their lungs when these rights are violated. Not a party that screams sometimes or not at all if they think they can not win. Injustice needs to be called whenever it happens!

Well, don't forget that this is a political party rather than a newly founded religious community that we're participating in. And 'Civil rights' means a lot of different things to different kinds of people. For many it is guns and when and where they want to pray and that men can tell women what to think and do. We have to find a more specific way of summarizing the systematic injustices we're dealing with. I am starting to point people to the Equal Protection Clause (14th Amendment, Section 1) as the foundation of our side's overall critique of American society. You may or may not agree, but we have to have some common root to unify our efforts in so many injust facets of American life.

I am so disappointed in all elected Dems that are not standing up and speaking out about all the tricks and fraud that happened in the past election. Every Dem should stand up on Jan. 6th. not just the ones that have nothing to lose.

The political power of that behavior depends on its moral power, i.e. whether it can affect people who are not our partisan allies to understand our sense of calamity. If we have 48% support, our side is sore losers. If/when we have 55% support for our assertion that it's all a moral calamity, we have legitimacy. I think we're at the first rather than the second, unfortunately.

Look how Howard Dean came out of nowhere and raised record amounts of money! I think we could do it again. I would change my Party affiliation in a hot second for a group that stood up for all injustice ALL the time!

I suggest calling such a political group The Martyrdom Party.... :-)

[bklyncowgirl]

72. If there was a similar "fundamentalist" party, yes.

Unfortunately the Republican coalition is holding together.

I'd join a progessive populist party in a nanosecond if I thought it would do anything but elect more Republicans. Of course the Democrats are so lame that maybe a strong third party effort would not be a spoiler.

[Iris]

73. If they ditch abortion and gay rights, I'm gone.

Maybe a third party might have a chance if the new neo-conservative Dems siphon off some votes from the Republicans. But even if not, I won't continue voting Dem if they throw in the towel on issues I believe are important. I'll write in candidates if the party goes any further left.

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. I agree

The election fraud issue alone is enough for me. The Dem party leaders are ignoring this and 20% of the people in this country believe the vote was stolen.

[Zynx]

75. No. All it would do us insure Republican election wins for the rest of my

life. What good would your statement be then?

[jswordy]

76. Work for Democracy for America

If, as I expect, Roemer or some other GOP Lite guy gets the DNC chair, I plan to work for Howard Dean's efforts in Democracy for America. That way, I'd still be in the party, just working for candidates in the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.

I set aside my own principles to work for Kerry as the Democratic nominee cuz I wanted Bush gone. But Kerry was a lousy candidate. I won't be doing that again.

Lastly, if the party does veer right it will:

1.) Lose a huge portion of the base, folks like me who are not raving liberals but not neocon wannbes, either.

2.) Reposition itself to the right just as the electorate moves left -- and miss them. Spell that L-O-S-S-E-S.

[imabadman]

78. There are different political parties.

However, the "Big Two" will never let a viable option come to fruition.

[ieoeja]

79. Yes. Just like the Moral Majority!

They had a great deal of success come out of forming their own party.

Huh? What's that? They used grass roots effort to replace non-religiously oriented Republicans during the Republican primary with their own at all levels of government instead of just starting up a new party from scratch?

Now there's an idea.

Join the DFA (advise I have yet to follow myself) and take over the Democratic party instead of starting a new one.

[genius]

84. We need to sidestep the DNC. The primaries determine the candidates

We need to form a super-organization that will include all progressives. Third parties are useless. They will never win.