What do you think of the suggestion about infiltrating the GOP

[Gloria]

that a caller to Randi Rhodes brought up...and that she said she had thought about at one time...and is willing to think about again.

Basically....register Republican so you can vote for the most moderate Republican who is running in primaries.

This will:

1) Confuse everyone as the Republican rolls go up, and maybe get them a bit complacent and the media screwed up

2) Over time, maybe the makeup of the Republican can be shifted from the far right


This was part of a discussion about how we can't depend on Republicans OR Democrats anymore, so WE have to take direct action....and this is the most powerful direct action we have.

[NV Whino]

1. .

:puke:

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

2. Living the strategy now in PA

Unseat Santorum in the PA primary in 06!!!!

[AP]

8. So that a moderate Republican can beat the Dem in the GE?

I agree that Santorum needs to go, even if it is to another Republican.

However, I also feel, for example, that if the moderate lost to the far-right lunatic in the primary this year, the Dems would have won that seat.

Did you vote against your Republican senator in the primary this year?

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

11. Vote against Santorum any chance I get...

I'd vote for a ham sandwich against him (to quote another DUer). Anyway, there are 2 ways of looking at this with the specific case of Santorum in mind:

#1. There's always a MORE EXTREME right wing nut running against PA Senators in the primary...vote for that nutcase in droves as stealth-mode Dems. The nutcase will lose guaranteed against whoever the Dems put up in the general election.

Or

#2. The PA DNC helps to fund via private Dem donations a candidate like Chris Heinz as the Santorum opponent in the PA primary. The PA Dems officially endorse/support their own candidate (Hoeffel, Hafer, ???). Heinz takes out Santorum in the primary with the help of the stealth mode Dems. PA is left with a no lose choice in the general election of Heinz vs. Hoeffel/Hafer/???


Santorum is a BIG elephant...shoot at him TWICE. I know it sounds sneaky but hey...let's play hardball. Just my thoughts.

:evilgrin:

[AP]

13. I don't think Heinz would be a great candidate.

But running him in the Repub primary to lose to the Dem in the GE sounds interesting.

Who did you vote for in the 2004 primary?

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

16. The crazy Toomey...Total loony...Specter still won

I am not nearly as repulsed by Specter. He supports stem cell research, women's right to choose and basically stays out of the socially regressive legislation.

[AP]

19. Strategically, a smart move, and it shows the value in being a spy in the

house of the Strict Father moralists.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

22. Thanks!

Moralists is far too kind a term...radical zealots, social regressives, fiscally irresponsible, sexually preoccupied and religiously delusional nutcases.

[AP]

29. I'm reading Lakoff right now, and that's his term.

He also talks about how liberals don't really understand what makes conservatives tick.

[coloradodem2005]

3. That isn't a half bad idea.

n/t

[metisnation]

4. I agree

how do you register Republican?

[coloradodem2005]

7. Go to your motor vehicles place.

You can pick up a form and fill it out.

[middleamerica]

5. Infiltrate

It won't work.......

[Bouncy Ball]

17. Oh yes it will

and it does.

Don't you think your own repuke party does it too middleamerica? I've got news for you, they do.

And we do, too.

Put on the big girl panties and deal with it.

[middleamerica]

39. Malcom X was a republican

You do know Malcom X was a republican do you? Self responsibility, not DEPENDING on the white man or anyone else for that matter.

[fasttense]

43. Seems to me the Repugs depend on our tax dollars.

Let's see, the Repugs depended on our tax dollars to:

Fund their wars, (and man them too)

Fund their pay,

Fund their Corporations like Halburton, Diebold etc.

Fund municipal projects like roads, bridges, damns, public buildings, etc.

Seems the Repugs are very dependent on our money and our children's children's money!

[Bouncy Ball]

48. They sure the hell are.

[yurbud]

6. you had me until most moderate

While the short term pain is great, the further out and more shrill the right becomes, the harder their inevitable fall will be.

Here in California, the far right picked a nut instead of Dick Riordan, who would have probably beaten Gray Davis. The GOP then had to do backflips to get their empty suit Arnold in.

They WANT the candidates with a moderate veneer in the blue states, as long as they toe the line on economic issues.

[MLE]

9. well I live in WI and here we don't have to register to vote...

unless you live in a bigger urban area, you don't have to register, just bring some ID, we also have same day registration for those that do have to.

I really don't think I would want to, but how would people in WI go about this?

[theboss]

10. Two big big flaws with this

1. I doubt enough Dems would do it to make a difference.
2. You wouldn't be able to vote in the Dem primary, meaning that you are going to end up with a Repub (who you don't want) running against a Dem (who you didn't help select).

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

12. Only use it on the BIG targets. PA has a big 06 election

I hear that Santorum already has 1.5million stashed away for his 06 reelection...it is going to take serious strategy to compete with his $$$$. I know there are other states with key targets in 06 and I think these are the states that could use the strategy. The Dems could switch back after the primary.

Just a thought.

[theboss]

26. You are not going to beat Santorum in the primary

Sitting Senators don't lose primary contests. I doubt he will even have a competitor. Get behind the best Dem early, fund him, and go from there.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

27. Specter was losing in the primary to the crazy Toomey...

He would have lost the PA primary without the endorsement of W who had to PUBLICLY endorse him.

I think it can work if used strategically in key states for key races with proper planning. Either run a super nutjob zealot to capture the far-right or put in a moderate to pull the mods from the more extreme candidate.

[theboss]

28. Yes, but the Conservative Right hates Specter

I mean, simply despises him. He had his entire base in revolt, had National Review bashing him daily, and still won. Santorum is not going to face an uprising in his own party.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

30. He is from the moderates....

We detest him and his latest scandal of stealing money from the Penn Hills school district to fund his kid's cyberschooling reinforces his hypocritical image with moderates.

The problem for the PA primary is numbers. Ya, PA is blue, but when you take a closed primary I don't know if the moderate Republicans in Allegheny (Pittsburgh), Philadelphia counties and Erie counties can outvote the Pennsyl-tucky red T of the state to take him down in the primary. If the Dems wait til the general election and either, (A)don't apply the money needed to take out Santorum's big war chest for advertising or (B) put up a candidate with little/no statewide name recognition or both, Santorum will win again in 06. Perish the thought.

[theboss]

32. I don't think you guys have the numbers to take down Santorum

When I was responding originally, I was thinking of Specter. He is a very special case and is easier to dismiss as an anachronism than to hold up as an example. Santorum is the current face of the Republicans in PA.

And Pennsylvanian Republicanism is becoming increasingly right-wing, as you say. It's no longer dominated by the Bluebloods on the Main Line and in Fox Chapel. John Heinz day is long past. It's the evangelicals in the T and hyper-religious Catholics in the cities who control things now.

And I frankly don't think a Democrat has any business choosing sides in the Republican Party's civil war. I would rather you moderates come to us.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

33. Wow, that one line you wrote...

makes me so sad, John Heinz day is long past . I really miss him as my Senator.

I will do my best to work on the moderates here to vote for the Dem candidate in 06. I just hope that the DNC powers in PA take this election seriously. They need to devote the money and time to choose a good candidate then pound away at Santorum's extreme record. If the Dem leadership in PA remembers that the moderate Republicans desperately want a choice, I would hope that they look to run a socially liberal/fiscally conservative type. The Bob Casey Jr. types will not motivate the moderate Republicans in mass to take out Santorum. Sorry.

[theboss]

35. I grew up across the PA border in WV

And went to law school in Pittsburgh. I know PA politics pretty well. The transformation of Pittsburgh over the last decade from deep-blue union stronghold to purple-boy-there-are-a-lot-of-religios-people-in-the-suburbs battleground has been alarming to say the least. In the past, when PA elected Republicans, it was Heinz, Specter, and Thornburg (who I seem to recall as somewhat moderate, though I could be wrong). Republicans in PA weren't much different from Dems in WV. Now, it's Santorum. It's a different day, and I don't know if you can buck the tide.

[moggie12]

14. Good plan for ensuring permanent Republican domination

I honestly think if a moderate like John McCain had been the Republican nominee in '00, he would've won with upwards of 60% of the vote -- he would've attracted an enormous number of Independents. Maybe the "values voters" wouldn't have been quite so mobilized, but most would've still come out to vote for the Republican candidate.

I also honestly, truly, sincerely believe that if a moderate like McCain, or a non-kook like Chuck Hegel, had been the Republican candidate in '04, poor Kerry would've been lucky to get 35%. Kerry benefited enormously from the "Anybody but Bush" sentiment.

Honest, swear to God, that's what I really think after hanging around with a lot of middle-class people in the middle-class areas I have lived over the past ten years (upstate NY, Louisville KY, and Roanoke VA -- my husband gets transferred a lot.).

[Bouncy Ball]

15. There was a guy who posted here quite regularly for a long time

(can't even remember his screen name now) and the DAY after the election, he wrote a post about how he was going to infiltrate his county repuke party. He said he had been thinking about it and decided if bush stole it again, he would do this.

He wants to work his way up to county chair then be the most ineffective apathetic SOB they've ever had for county chair. Get repukes to run who are totally whacko or otherwise have no chance, etc.

He had a whole frigging list of cool things he was going to do.

I don't know what state he was in. I have to wonder about my own county Dem party. The chair is about like that.

Hmmmm.

I told him I couldn't do that and he said he's got the stomach for it and he's been around repukes so long he can do it.

Good for him, I say. Like they haven't done the same....

[OrangeOwl]

18. Maybe

... I'm alone in this, but instead of finding other ways to win elections by trickery (ie., falsely registering as Republicans) perhaps it would be a good idea to present voters with reasons to vote for our candidates.

Just a thought.

[Bouncy Ball]

21. These things are not mutually exclusive, you know.

There ARE a lot of us. LOL!

[fasttense]

44. As long as the Repugs can rig elections there isn't a chance of

common sense and reason winning.

[Bouncy Ball]

20. By the way

what you do is you advocate for, work for and vote for the LOONIEST repuke they can put up.

And make ALL their looniest positions REALLY well known.

In Texas, we don't register by party, we just register. So it's quite easy to do here. I've attended a few county repuke meetings with other Dems. Quite interesting. They talk strategy, we take notes, we go back to county Dems, let them know what they are planning. They never even suspect. We rah-rah like braindead freepers.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

23. Hey BB!

We seem to end up in a lot of threads together talking a similar language. Glad to share thoughts with ya. :toast:

[Bouncy Ball]

24. Hey, nice to see you!

:toast:

[Billy Ruffian]

25. I tried it here in NC

registered Repub in 1984 when I moved here. Jesse Helms was running for Senate (re-election, I think) but he did have an opponent in the primary. I wanted to try to get ANYONE but Helms into the election.

[formernaderite]

31. This would only work in red states...

...those of us in blue states never worry about the whack jobs winning.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

34. H-E-L-L-O, Santorum is one in my blue state. nt

[theboss]

36. Gag! Snort!

Um, Pataki! Hello, Santorum! Hey, Bill Weld, how are you? What's that you say, Mr. Ehrlich? Pardon me, Mr. Schwartzeneger.

[NuttyFluffers]

37. already do it, but the results are not tremendous.

basically i have been inable to vote for anyone in my gop primaries. the primaries is just filled with a de facto pre-selection. democrats have primaries, republicans have party lines and 'sponsored pawns.' obedience is essentially an accepted norm -- it's mindless voting.

but it is useful to get the pamphlets and fliers. the voter guide cards are a great way to figure out how *not* to vote, so it makes spiting the vote easier. also, i'm pretty well assured to get my materials on time and not have much in the way of misdirection. and then each flier they send wastes their money -- sometimes they give pre-paid envelopes, those are fun! also i don't expect myself to be on any 'no-fly' lists or under heavy suspicion by being registered republican (shameful that this should be even remotely true).

so don't expect much in the way of improvement, but it does muck up the trail and momentum. but people should do what they feel is best.

[kamqute]

38. It'd work just fine until they ask you to sacrifice the baby

Could you do it? Could you watch them do it? They'd have you pegged from square one and they'd eat you alive.

[0007]

40. I'll try anything to get those criminals out of the White House

What's it gonna hurt? Absolutely nothing to lose as far as I can see!

[Wabbajack]

41. That can't possibly work on a large scale

[mattclearing]

42. Many think they have already done it to us with the DLC.

The problem with this is that you would need to do it with powerful people with money for them to care. It would have to be such a big deal that it would take millions of voters to make it effective. Why not just have those voters vote Democratic?

[robbedvoter]

45. Ask the Log Cabin repukes about their success. No more parties for me

and I mean political parties. After all, the votes for the next elections are already counted. (with the Dems blessing)

[berni_mccoy]

46. Nice idea...

But to be effective, it would require a large number of people, and my guess is the number of people who would actually do this is small.

I know some Repubs do that here in NH, but then again, in NH, you can register AT the vote, so you can go in register for a party, vote, and then register back to your original party, or you can be independent, like I plan to be.

I'm pretty much done with parties, like another poster said above. As much as I dislike the idealogy of the GOP, I think the Dems need to get their act together. The party is completely fractured now.

[leftofthedial]

47. the theocrats and neocons would control the agenda

and the outcome of elections, no matter how moderate the Repuke Party became.

I formerly advocated this approach.