Which DNC candidate spoke out against vote machine fraud yesterday?

[blm]

And did any of them stand against Ohio's electoral votes being counted?

I will stand with whoever makes BBV and election fraud an issue. So far, Dean is the only one who seems even AWARE of BBV. That puts him ahead in my book.

[madfloridian]

1. What presidential candidate spoke out, blm?

Where was Kerry? Do you really want to go there?

[emulatorloo]

2. He was in Iraq, and I doubt anybody wants to go there (i.e., Iraq)

much less BLM. . .

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. snarf! eom

[blm]

16. Yes. I am serious about wanting VOTE FRAUD as a priority issue.

Did Kerry act like he was fully informed about Black Box Voting? I never saw it. And I am surprised that ANY Dem who knew didn't take up that charge before the election.

YEAH. I'll go there, because I am always DEAD SERIOUS about this issue. I don't see it as some tit for tat political game.

[genius]

53. Dennis was the only 2004 candidate to speak out.

No one running for DNC Chair spoke out. Those backing Roemer opposed the objection to the Ohio electors.

[The Blue Flower]

3. Dennis Kucinich

Floor Speech Of Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich On The Challenge To The Ohio Electoral College Vote

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/oh10_kucinich/050106electoralcollege.html
For Immediate Release


Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich (D-OH) gave the following speech today on the House floor during consideration of an objection to the certification of the Electoral College votes from Ohio:



“Let us not denigrate factual concerns about the Ohio election by dismissing them as simply partisan. This is not about Democrat or Republican votes. It is not about red or blue or black or white. It is not about wrong and right. It is not about winners or losers. It is about protecting voting rights in our democracy against corruption.



“Let us review just one of the very serious concerns with the Ohio election. Voting machines were misallocated causing some voters to stand in line for 10 hours. That denies voters equal protection of the law. In the states’ capitol, a shortage of machines in predominately African American communities was created. Even though the Secretary of State knew far in advance that 102,000 voters were registered in that county alone. The misallocation of machines was estimate to have denied at least 15,000 people the opportunity to vote.



“Furthermore the Secretary of State, who, under Ohio law has a constitutional duty to ensure election laws are upheld, failed to issue guidelines under the Help American Vote Act (HAVA) for two years. Contrary to the spirit of HAVA (which is to encourage voting and to have every vote count), Ohio’s top election official conducted the activities of his office in a most partisan manner, undermining public trust in the election. He sharply restricted the ability of voters to use provisional ballots. He endeavored to make it more difficult for lower income people, who are more likely to move, to vote.



“We know who won the election. But what the American people do not know is the extend to which voting irregularities in the State of Ohio deprived tens of thousands of my fellow citizens of their Fourteenth Amendment right to equal protection of the law and their constitutionally protected right to vote.



“The right to vote is expressly protected by the Fifteenth Amendment, the Nineteenth, the Twenty-Fourth and the Twenty-Sixth Amendments to the United States constitution.



“It is that right which has produced our very presence in this chamber. It is that right which binds us as a nation, which creates the unity of states, which legitimizes the government, which enfranchises not just a people, but in which reposes the treasure of the American people: A Government of the people, by the people and for the people. People have marched for that right, have put in their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor on the line for that right, and the least we can do is show our commitment to protecting that right.



“The outcome of the election will remain unchanged. But what we must change is a system which denied citizens of a great state their opportunity to change the outcome. Election reform is our solemn duty. Out statements today show is we intend to do our duty.”

[blm]

13. Kucinich was great but he's not a candidate to lead the DNC.

.

[moggie12]

4. I was wondering that, too. Did Dean, Roehmer say anything.

Good question. Did Dean, Roehmer, or the others make public statements??

Also, I'm embarrassed to show my level of ignorance, but what does BBV stand for?

[madfloridian]

9. They were waiting for Kerry, the candidate.

See my post here about the things DFA did about voting. If Kerry chose to concede so quickly, it was NOT Dean's job to speak up at that time.

Dean is not in Congress, and if he were he would have spoken out.

Why not quit crying in your teacups? That is what Kerry said to do.

[blm]

14. HUH? What does that have to do with standing against election fraud?

BTW...you do know that the "crying in your teacups" was taken out of context and turned into an internet legend much like the twisting of "voted for it before I voted against it" was twisted into a flip-flop when it was NOTHING CLOSE to a flip-flop.

I am surprised that someone would repeat that baseless attack at this time. And I would think the same about anyone who found traction with that stupid Deanscream attack. There are too many REAL things to deal with that we shouldn't get bogged down in fake stories.

[madfloridian]

18. Well, show your side. I got this from a 2003 article.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/connelly/129019_joel02.html

SNIP.."Kerry was tiptoeing on Sunday, but did go into how liberals shoot themselves in the foot.

Exhibit A, he said, was the enormous amount of effort and money Democrats had to spend in the Northwest in 2000 "to pull people back from the (Ralph) Nader precipice." Invested elsewhere, it might have won the day for Al Gore.

He is impatient with Democratic oratory about the "stolen" election. "Stop crying in your teacups," he told one audience. "It isn't going to change. Get over it."

[blm]

25. WTF is the problem? That's as absurd as if I claimed Dean was a screamer.

I don't let the media twist the facts for me.

And what the hell does it have to do with the contest for DNC chair and BBV?

[madfloridian]

30. Then tell me what he really meant, and I won't post it if not true.

Fair is fair. Type in the words and pick your source.

[blm]

32. Where were you all last year when it came up over and over?

nothingshocksmeanymore and others put up the full story at least 50 times.

If I could search the archives right now, I could post it. It seems google has hundreds of entries from the deanblogs and David Podvin's lying essay where he took the quote from the original article and twisted it for his own purpose.

[JaneQPublic]

20. Self-delete. I duped Madfloridian

[paulk]

33. black box voting

ie; electronic voting systems that don't leave a paper trail

[genius]

55. Black box voting. Your votes go into a black box and disappear.

[madfloridian]

5. And did you read the blog yesterday?

www.blogforamerica.com

Did you hear about the June rally and petition?
http://www.blogforamerica.com/archives/004674.html

Did you see this site and the rally pics and the petition?
http://www.blogforamerica.com/archives/004681.html

[JaneQPublic]

6. Maybe someone told them to "stop crying in their teacups." (nt)

[emulatorloo]

11. I ain't crying, I'm bitching at Frist, Hastert and my Repub Senator

How dare they not take our right to vote seriously?

Speaker Dennis Hastert: 1-202-225-0600
Leader Bill Frist: 1-202-224-3135

[Deadbolt04]

7. :(

only boxer voted for the resolution in the senate...

[paulk]

10. Simon Rosenburg endorsed the stand

against Ohio's EV count yesterday. It was on Daily Kos (no link).

[blm]

54. Thanks. I haven't been a big Rosenberg fan but I appreciate anyone who

makes BBV a priority. It seems that it isn't as easy for Dem officials to grasp as any of us would like.

[paulk]

59. Rosenberg is kind of interesting...

he's a centrist, but he's done a good job of reaching out to other factions of the party. He understands how important the Latino vote is going to be in the future. He was an early supporter of Dean's campaign, because he understood the grassroots potential. He's very good at raising money, and that's really what the DNC chair is for. I'm starting to take him seriously as a good compromise candidate.

[madfloridian]

12. Pics from the DFA petition being presented to Rush Holt.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/archives/004681.html

Democracy For America came through in a big way for this event, and provided a great charge to the Congressmen and assembled guests with the presentation of a petition signed by 127,470 Americans who believe in the integrity of every vote.

Congressman Holt was thrilled with the petition, affirming our belief that only with a truly accountable, verifiable and audited voting system can democracy prevail. Democracy For America has been at the forefront of this battle, and your signatures send a clear message to Congress: we need verifiable voting, and we need it now.

Here is the presentation of the petitions:


Here are the petitions:

[blm]

15. I agree that Dean is the furthest ahead on this issue, but, why didn't he

pick up the torch and MAKE it an issue when he had total access to Kerry and his campaign and the media BEFORE the election?

My conclusion is that he couldn't have had a full grasp on it or he would have been first in line with a microphone.

So far, he is still my choice to lead the DNC because he is the most aware of it.

There is no need to attack on this thread. I'm surprised some find it necessary.

[madfloridian]

Those pics are from June this year.

So I don't know what you mean.

[blm]

19. Do you know that Dean spoke to Kerry and explained about BBV?

Was it an issue for ANY Dem leader for the 5 months before the election? Shouldn't it have been?

If I was a Dem leader who had access to the media, I would have crowed about it NONSTOP and made certain that my ENTIRE team was up to speed.

[JaneQPublic]

22. Why didn't Kerry know about BBV?

Why did he need one of the losing candidates to explain it to him?

[madfloridian]

23. That was not Dean's job. Kerry was the nominee!

Stop placing the blame on Howard Dean for all of this.

[blm]

34. I'm not. None of them were where they should have been on this.

After the primary they were acting as a team. Kerry was in no position to take on every issue and especially one he didn't study. it was up to those who understood it to get him up to speed. They all had their areas where they excelled.

You think Kerry wouldn't have helped out Dean in the areas that he mastered if Dean was the nominee?

My point is that there were no Dem leaders who led a consistent charge on voting machine fraud before the election and I want a DNC chair who will do it. Why the hell do you think I support Dean for DNC chair at this time? if someone else knew as much as he did and made it a priority, then I'd back that person.

[madfloridian]

40. I can not believe you on this. It was NOT Dean's job to inform Kerry.

Did you not know that Kerry's campaign distanced itself from him?

[blm]

46. Kerry spent time with Dean. He even used Dean to represent him

during the general campaign almost as much as he did Clark with whom he had a longtime friendship.

it was EVERY Democrat's job to step up in any area that they knew they would make a difference. Are you saying that Dean DID know that vote fraud was a priority but he CHOSE not to share it because it wasn't his job?

I highly doubt that Dean would have skipped sharing what he knew with Kerry, and that is why I conclude that he wasn't completely certain about it himself at the time.

[madfloridian]

48. You do not seem well-informed on that.

Kerry was a big boy,had a huge staff. It was not Dean's job.

[blm]

51. it was EVERY Dem's job who had info to make a difference. EVERY Dem.

I would have expected Kerry to bring Dean up to speed in areas where he had the better grasp.

I don't even excuse Dennis Kucinich who is my alltime favorite politician. I really think making it an issue and impressing Kerry with its urgency was EVERY Dem's job. Every Dem who understood its urgency.

[madfloridian]

57. Here is my answer.

And over 127,000 petitions.

[blm]

58. And what did they talk about on the plane ride?

And where was the urgency in the media appearances? I really don't think you want to admit that they ALL dropped the ball on making it an urgent issue before the election. ALL of them.

But, my original post was about tackling it NOW as DNC chair. Sorry if it wasn't clear enough in the post.

[Zhade]

17. Kerry's people weren't exactly that interested in the issue.

Remember Mark Crispin Miller telling the tale about Kerry's eyes glazing over while MCM was discussing BBV with him?

Bav Harris (I know, ewwwww) once told me his people were against stopping BBV in counties with punchcards, but since Bev has apparently gone completely bonkers, I cannot vouch for this information at all.

But it's overall a good question: why didn't Kerry do more about the problem before he even ran for president? The issue was known. Or at least had his people tackle it while he ran. He did have a platform to speak from (curtailed as it was by the SCLM).

[blm]

21. Miller isn't Dean who DID have Kerry's ear and even represented Kerry

during the general election.

Kerry obviously didn't know squat about BBV, he kinda had a full plate, but those Dems who DID know should have explained it clearly and picked up the torch. Kerry's campaign absorbed many of Dean's people. Hard to believe they didn't get Kerry's camp up to speed, unless they didn't have much of a grasp of it as a real issue, either.

[madfloridian]

24. Kerry was running for president, and he did not know about it?

Kerry was our nominee, and he should have known.

[blm]

31. He SHOULD have known. those he trusted who had his EAR should have

impressed upon him exactly how important it was. I give Dean a pass because I don't think he had as full a grasp as some want to believe. I truly believe that if he did he would have raised holy hell about it and made it a HUGE issue before the election.

Why be so adverserial about it? I am sorely upset that Kerry wasn't informed on this issue. But, I laso know that he was pretty damn occupied handling everything else on his plate throughout the general election. It didn't sink in. I doubt it completely sunk in to ANY Dem.

[madfloridian]

36. I did not start this thread. I have never gone after Kerry.

Dean would have been crucified now if he had spoken up after the leadership did not.

Kerry conceded, said he did not agree with contesting, and Dean would have been crucified.

[blm]

39. This is about the DNC CHAIR and which candidate will make BBV a PRIORITY.

That's it.

Aren't YOU curious what all the candidates had to say about yesterday's events and don't you want to know if they see BBV as an important issue to address as DNC chair?

I just don't get all the insults being hurled at Kerry in this thread about DNC chair.

[madfloridian]

41. You started it! You started the thread.

It was a veiled attack on the others, when Kerry has washed his hands of it.

[blm]

44. Horseshit. It's about DNC candidates for the CHAIRMANSHIP.

I have declared that the only chair I want is the guy who will make BBV a priority. How many times do i have to say it?

[JaneQPublic]

27. Ironic that "electable" Kerry needed "unelectable" Dean...

...to explain election problems to him.

[Zhade]

28. Well, we're all spitballing, because we can't really know.

I agree that Kerry had a full plate. I mean, duh. But his people should have picked up the ball.

There's no way to tell what happened, exactly. Who's to say Dean and his people DIDN'T try to get Kerry's people on the issue? We just don't know either way, which is why you haven't heard me call Kerry a "BBV-lover" or something silly like that.

So to ask, "Why didn't Dean do anything?" is to assume that's the truth, which we don't know. It's no more honest than saying Kerry didn't do anything - for all I know, he could have tried, and his people could have discouraged it, or they could have tried and been blocked, or...

Fruitless blue-skying, IMHO.

[NYCGirl]

29. It was Dean's job to educate Kerry on BBV? Now I've heard everything. NT

[blm]

37. Would kerry have helped dean on certain issues if Dean were the nominee?

Of course. After the primary they were all working as a team. You help out the nominee with what they NEED to know.

[NYCGirl]

38. How do you know they didn't discuss it?

It's all speculation at this point.

[blm]

43. Would kerry be so clueless about BBV if Dean had warned him how serious it

was last spring? Sorry, but, although he is more aware than most and I am glad for that, Dean couldn't possibly have been certain enough about it to lead the charge before the election, because I know he would have found a way to impress the campaign and the media that it WAS an issue that needed to be dealt with URGENTLY.

[madfloridian]

47. Kerry had a huge huge staff to inform him. He used Dean only at times.

Dean was told he could not campaign for Kerry in Iowa, and I understand certain other states. Some were southern states where Dean was leading early on.

Kerry used him, but treated him as a bad in-law or something.

I can not believe you thought it was Dean's job to inform Kerry of anything.

[madfloridian]

26. Screenshots from the Topic A show about voting machines. Dean

http://www.crocuta.net/Dean/Dean_Host_TopicA_Aug8_2004.htm

[blm]

35. I KNOW all that, mf...it didn't do anything did it?

What problem do you have admitting that Dean is the closest to understanding the issue but still didn't get enough to use his access to Kerry, the Kerry campaign, or the media to make it a BIGGER issue?

I don't BLAME Dean. I know if he did get it fully he would have led that charge.

[madfloridian]

42. Kerry distanced himself from Dean as a spokesman.

Come on now, let's be fair.

[madfloridian]

45. Dean says election fraud is a big issue, and Ohio is a concern.

This links to Mike's interview. This has been posted here a lot.

http://www.breakfornews.com/articles/DeanInterview041230.htm

SNIP..."HD: I think we need to focus on election officials. County Clerks, Secretaries of State in particular, because the Republicans have been so partisan in exercising their responsibility to help people vote, they‘ve in fact tried to suppress turnout instead of encourage it. Secondly, we, I think we need to try to get laws passed, by referendum if necessary, that says that no voting machines in a particular state or jurisdiction may be used unless they can be recounted by hand. Oregon has such a statute because Bill Bradbury (Oregon’s Secretary of State) got one passed in 2001. We should try to state by state overhaul the election process both by referendum and by electing where possible Democratic Secretaries of State and County Clerks...."

SNIP.."A Well, in order to do that you have to have some proof that that actually happened and while I think suspicion are well justified, we don’t actually have proof that there was a plan to do that, and until we have some proof, it’s not likely that we’re going to get much media coverage. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence and I think we are getting some media coverage on the circumstantial evidence, for example the over vote, Cuyahoga County, The addition of 3500 votes that didn’t exist before the balloting even started, on some of those electronic touch screen voting machines, those things we have to be concerned about, and I think we can get press on them....."

SNIP..."HD: Right. I think one the things we can all agree on is election fraud is a huge issue for us and we should move on that. I think the war is an incredibly foolish undertaking as you’re well aware. I think that we’re going to have to choose what our issues are going to be. It’s very hard to focus the attention of the country on maybe two or three issues at once. I think the war is a really important issue but I think tha as time goes on particularly after the President’s inauguration, there will be more and more focus on the war, But right now, the election is fresh on our mind, and I really do think we should focus on the questionable results of the election in some of the states such as Ohio....."

[blm]

50. And THAT is why Dean's my number one choice, so far, for DNC chair.

i was curious what all the candidates had to say about it yesterday.

[mandyky]

49. I wonder if any of the DNC Chair candidates will mention it

this weekend in GA. CSpan is supposed to cover this forum, so we'll get to hear what each have to say about election reform/voter fraud.

[madfloridian]

52. What time on C-Span? A new entry...Leland...don't know him.

Do you? Malcolm out now, the lady from TX. Leland from Ohio, a Democratic leader from there.

[mandyky]

60. Not sure on the time

The moderator mentioned this morning they would be there tomorrow. Not sure if they'll play it live or what..

[blm]

56. Thanks. I'll be all ears for that one. Heck, I hope they ALL "get it"

and make it an urgent issue.

[mandyky]

61. Not sure they'll be addressing the issue

But it seems a DNC Chair candidate would at least want to mention it, and things that can be done..