Bush and Leninism: Conservative Reds? Boxer on Fresh Air

[imenja]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4493675

Terry Gross of NPR's Fresh Air had an interesting interview with Barbara Boxer a couple of weeks ago. I finally listened to the audio file yesterday. In this interview, she talks about a memo that reveals the Bush administration admires and seeks to emulate Vladimir Lenin is promoting it's revolutionary right-wing agenda. The admission is especially interesting in light of some of the rhetorical references by Bush and his cabinet officials. Condoleezza Rice spoke of ends justifying the means. Another poster on DU noted that this bore a striking resemblance to Fidel Castro's 1953 "History will Absolve me" speech. Bush's state of the union speech seemed to mirror elements of Trotsky's notion of "permanent revolution." Like Trotsky, Bush believes our own survival depends on promoting our own form of government and economy throughout the world.

"Trotsky wrote: "The Perspective of permanent revolution may be summarized in the following way: the complete victory of the democratic revolution in Russia is conceivable only in the form of the dictatorship of the proletariat, leaning on the peasantry. The dictatorship of the proletariat, which would inevitably place on the order of the day not only democratic but socialistic tasks as well, would at the same time give a powerful impetus to the international socialist revolution. Only the victory of the proletariat in the West could protect Russia from bourgeois resoration and assure it the possibility of rounding out the establishment of socialism."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1931-tpv/

The influence of the neo-conservatives, it seems, extends beyond the Iraq policy. Some neo-conservatives like Wolfowitz were former socialists. They have abandoned socialism's ideas of equality, yet promote the authoritarian aspects of communist rule that the US struggled against during the Cold War. While they are devoid of the ideas of economic justice that drew many to communism, are they nonetheless Reds?

[blm]

1. Grover Norquist is an open admirer of Lenin.

He believes in exterminating all opposition, not compromising or sharing power with the whole other half of the country who doesn't believe the way he does.

That is why Norquist is a frequent advisor and cherished guest at Bush's White House. Bush and Rove believe exactly the same thing, but, tell the gullible press and public they believe in democracy and free press and listening to the other side when they NEVER HAVE SUPPORTED ANY OF THOSE THINGS.

[NNadir]

2. Good point, I think.

[anaxarchos]

3. There is very little organic extreme right-wing theory...

Think about it. Most people can name a dozen left-wing theoreticians. It's hard to name one enduring right-winger.

Most such right-wing "theory" is born in opposition to the left-wing in general and socialism in particular.. and borrows heavily from both. Fascism in particular accepts the theory of "class struggle" but seeks to reconcile it or at least channel it through dictatorial corporatism (it used to be called "Bonapartism") at home and colonialism abroad. Thus "national socialism" - Nazis.

One key part of the expropriation of theory is the idea that socialist technique can be divorced from socialist principles. This was an important idea of the Freikorps in Germany who preceded Hitler. It was explicit with the Italian Fascists. Mussolini, who started out a socialist, once remarked that he could never stand "the masses" or any of the socialist ideals that sought to promote them but was always enthralled by the "scientific principles of organization" that were developed by Italian socialism.

If Republican nut-jobs are talking about "admiring Lenin", it does not mean that they are "closet Reds". Quite the opposite, it means there is "a whiff" of openly Fascist theory in the air

[imenja]

4. my use of the word Reds was rhetorical

A few days ago, another poster suggested we call Republicans Reds because of their red state dominance--a rhetorical inversion of Cold War language. The Bush administration's admiration for Lenin is clearly based on authoritarianism rather than Marxist ideology itself. Authoritarian tactics, rather than an ideological adherence to Marxism or fascism, seems to be what they seek to emulate.

[anaxarchos]

5. I understand...

But, I still think you pointed to a very important quote. Admiration for Lenin from a Republican nut-job ("RNJ") is a marker. It is much like Falwell suddenly "admiring" Lucifer. It clearly is for "shock value" but in order to get there, you have to cross an ideological threshold. The RNJ ideology meter has to move significantly to the right... and probably has.

Authoritarian tactics ALWAYS have ideological underpinnings.

[imenja]

8. absolutely

"Authoritarian tactics ALWAYS have ideological underpinnings"

I have no disagreement with you there. I instead wanted to clarify that the vision of a society they seek to create is neither Marxist or fascist; they have expressed no interest in a corporatist state model.

Those who covet and wield great power always justify their actions in ideological terms and display an unwaivering confidence in the superiority of their own vision of the world. The Bush administration clearly reflects that tendency. So much so that they consciously invoke Leninism, an ideology long seen as antithetical to American values, as a model for carrying out their so-called revolution. The parallel with Falwell and Lucifer is apt.

[Eloriel]

10. What??

the vision of a society they seek to create is neither Marxist or fascist; they have expressed no interest in a corporatist state model.


Coulda fooled me.

Would you care to explain yourself, and document/support this assertion f yours?

[imenja]

12. fascism

(On edit: Oops. The post I was referring to isn't yours. I'll leave the point as is, but please recognize the correction).


since your point was that this White House seems to have more in common with fascists than Marxists, I'll discuss only fascism.

Fascism revolves around a corporatist state model. That term derives from corpus, the Latin word for body. It does not mean dominance by big business, as some mistakenly argue. Corporatism imagines the state as a single living organism. Labor, industrialists, and other sectors of society are incorporated through official government institutions that grant they certain benefits in exchange for loyalty to the state and, in the case of unions, an agreement to refrain from more radical labor activism. Corporatism emerged in the 1930s and 1940s in Europe and Latin America as a response to more radical, socialist and anarchist labor movements that sought workers' control of the means of production and of the state itself. Corporatism sought to incorporate those elements into the structure of the state itself by balancing labor and business interests in pursuit of a nationalist goal. The Bush administration displays no such attempt at balance. Big business clearly dominates, especially those chosen businesses with connections to the White House.

National socialism hinged on a corporatist state model. This country accepts no such view of the power of importance of labor or any other sector other than large campaign donors, big business.

Some point to the imperial aspirations of Hitler and Mussolini to suggest that this administration is fascist. There have been many kinds of empires in history. Ours is a naked capitalist empire. It promotes American power and the spread of US economic dominance. Imperial designs and repression of dissent have characterized many governments throughout history. Authoritarianism takes on many forms. Fascism was a particular kind of state that is not mirrored in the actions or aspiration of the Bush administration.

Wikipedia provides a handy definition of corporatism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism

and fascism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

[anaxarchos]

14. I'm not so sure. I agree that Bush...

...is just a garden variety Texas rattlesnake whose opportunism and petty authoritarianism come naturally. That's not clear about the neo-cons though. I saw Gertrude Himmelfarb (Irving Kristol's wife) on a television interview and not only did I get a whiff, I was overwhelmed by the stench.

Guess I have to strengthen up my stomach and actually go and read Kristol and Leo Strauss, etc...

[IndianaGreen]

6. Lenin was a collectivist

Stalin was the authoritarian bureaucrat.

There is nothing of Lenin in a crowd that wants to impose a Holy American Corporatist Empire on the entire planet.

[imenja]

7. Listen to the Boxer interview and tell us what you think of the memo

Boxer expressing discomfort over Rove's (I think it is Rove) use of Lenin as a strategic model.
The issue, as I said, is not about the collectivist or egalitarian nature of communism. The Bush administration's concerns are quite different.

[durutti]

9. Ridiculous.

I have about a million times more respect for Lenin than I do for Bush. Bushism resembles Leninism only when Leninism is distorted.

[Eloriel]

11. Well, I dunno

I frankly don't know a lot about Lenin. I do, however, have one quote of his, and I post it whenever I post my DLC links:

The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves. -- Lenin


In addition to the DLC (funded in part by the right, btw, a fact not everyone may know), think of how Rove and/or other GOP operatives set up people like James Hatfield, Dan Rather, and others. Set them up with SOME truth, and just enough false to completely discredit them and that discreditation become the story. That's another form or version of "leading" the opposition, IMO.

[imenja]

13. the point is that the White House is consciously using aspects of Leninism

listen to the Boxer interview and her discussion of the Memo that openly advocates elements of Leninism.

[Spinoza]

15. After obtaining power Lenin mercilessly

went after The SD's (Social Democrats), SR's (Social Revolutionaries) and Mensheviks who were totally of the Left, totally progressive, idealistic socialists, but not Bolsheviks. By "went after", I mean "killed". Great guy!