My God--Are Greenspan & Repubs Serious? This will kill the republicans

[DemocracyInaction]

Found a bit more info about senile Greenspan's endorsing this Consumption Tax (you know, the 25-30% tax the repubs are proposing that will bring the nation to it's knees)! He was criticized that it will fall on the poor the hardest and so he said he was sure Congress would figure out what the poor buy and exempt those items!!! Jesushchrist---that's an economic plan??? That's a clusterfuck. But there is more:

Allen is NOT wanting this to be in place of an income tax but a combination of the two. I want these fucking bastard, slimebag Republicans who have bellowed about any tax increases going to wreck our economy to look the people in the eye and tell them "this isn't a tax increase"!! This is a goddamn gazillion percent tax increase!!! This will shut down businesses all over this country. The unemployment rate will go through the roof. Bankruptcies and foreclosures will sweep the land. Nobody can pay a third more for everything they buy from food (and food will not be exempt), to gas, heating oil, medicine, etc. What business leaders would be insane enough to back a plan like this!!! And Greenspan says it will spark economic growth. This guy is now so far up Bush's ass he can't even see.

I warn the Dems to stay totally away from even remotely endorsing such a horse's ass plan. This won't be one of those 'yawn--whatever' reactions from the public. If you thought they were getting wild over the SS stuff, this will make republican support fall to 2%. And trust me, the ones who will go insane the most are the yuppies. They are always scrounging around for a "deal" and saving money. And, they will quickly figure out that unemployment will loom very likely in their overextended future. The Repubs several years ago ran a campaign that said "throw the bums out". Since we ruled the Congress, that meant we lost it. They start even talking about such asinine crap and we can turn every red state blue. It will no longer be an issue of this idiot "morality" voting; it will be the issue of just plain staying alive.

[Zuni]

1. This would be a MASSIVE tax increase

they will balance the budget on the backs of the working and middle classes while the rich are barely touched.

Disgusting....:puke:

[Lerkfish]

but predictable.

[EVDebs]

29. The elderly on Social Security can then stock up on catfood !

You'd think an economist would know what a regressive tax is, huh ?

Let's tell the "Maestro", as Bob Woodward calls Greenspan, to shove his baton up his Republican orifice.

[politicaholic]

2. Could you please throw up a link?

I haven't heard about this and I sorta fell like being outraged.

thanks!

[DemocracyInaction]

10. politica---I first picked this up on Bloomberg News and surfed for

a couple hours to see if I could find more. Bloomberg ran actual footage of Greenspan saying things and then filled in with all that he said, etc. Then there is a ticker going on CNN that touches on some of it. It says he endorses the plan but wants it to be in connection with an income tax because of "Dem concerns" (those would be the 'falling on the poor' concerns, I assume). But why aren't the Dems just totally, all out screaming BULLSHIT. Like I said, they better goddamn stay far away from this and not be a player in it and end up holding the bag of shit as always.

[sandnsea]

36. here

I wrote about it earlier today. There's a link in here to Greenspan's remarks.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=457

[Dhalgren]

3. Is this serious proposal?

It is hard to believe, coming from these...people. What's the deal?

[punpirate]

9. The deal is that it's another stealth plan...

... to reduce taxes on the wealthy and corporations. As sometimes proposed, all income taxes would be reduced, and the difference made up from a national sales tax. Since the wealthy spend relatively little of their income on essentials, the tax burden devolves to the working class who must spend most of their income to live.

[EVDebs]

30. Yessirrreee, it's called "marginal propensity to consume" and is the

reason why Bush's tax cuts didn't prime the pump for recovery in this stagnant economy we're in. Greenspan KNOWS this, but is showing that HE IS the political hack that Sen "Give 'em Hell" Harry Reid says he is...his actions prove it !

[slater71]

4. Let me get this straight

If a guy makes 30,000 a year and buys a stove for 500 dollars and a second guy who makes 500,000 a year, buys that same stove for 500 dollars. The first guy saves 15% on his income tax that he no longer pays and the second guy saves 33% on his income tax. They both pay 23% sales tax on that stove. Who comes out with the better deal? Now you know why the republicans want to do this.

[DemocracyInaction]

14. slater---I said they want to combine this tax WITH income tax

So, it's a real ball buster.

[MissWaverly]

34. this is the same as the flush tax in Maryland

our Republican governor thought this up to pay for clean up of the Chesapeake Bay, who are the big polluters, corporations of course, so make the poor pay for cleaning it up by paying a tax on flushing their toilet, my waterbill has gone from $19.00 to $48.00, but I am saving some big corporate mogul's profit margin, the same way he is fixing the roads by raising the cost of tags from $75.00 to $125.00,
this is another big break for the corporations. Let's settle the cost of fixing up this country via flat taxes on the backs of the poor.

[tridim]

5. It's almost like they want us to revolt

It seems like every day brings new reasons. The fuse is getting very short IMO.

You should send your rant to Malloy. I'm sure he'd love to have a crack at it.

[Nimrod]

8. Random question

Is that guy banging a turtle?

[tridim]

15. Yes, but it wasn't my idea

The Repukes compared gay relationships with beastiality, and The Daily Show came up with the graphic. I liked it so much that I stole it. :)

BTW, that's a tail on the turtle. ;)

[Nimrod]

18. Okay, just checking

And that DOESN'T really look like a tail... :)

[tridim]

21. It's all in the subtle 'tapering' of the thing..

You have to look close though.

[Nimrod]

22. Y'know, I can see this degenerating rapidly

Yep, I see the tapering. Good color and length on it, too.

:D

[Beetwasher]

6. Exempt What Poor People Buy??? Uhh, Ok

No tax on Hamburger Helper! :eyes:

[TheFarseer]

41. LOL that's classic! n/t

[IrateCitizen]

7. OK, when dealing with Greenspan, the best tactic is to...

... listen to what he says, and then adopt the alternative proposal that comes closest to being the exact OPPOSITE of what he just put forward.

He's a complete hack. Seriously. The only reason he's considered some sage of finance is because he happened to be around at the time of the internet boom. His track record is really quite abysmal, and if you search the records, you will see where he comes out for policies he previously opposed, and vice versa.

[ArtVandaley]

32. I like your profile pic

I just finished God of Small Things and loved it. Arundhati Roy is an amazing writer, at a near Joycian level.

[Journeyman]

11. This would be political suicide for anyone endorsing it. . .

Even if they abolished the income tax completely, and let people keep their entire paycheck, when faced with such a huge sales tax the people would revolt everytime they saw it -- which would be every day, and not just once in April (though god knows, they should demand an accounting of that money, as well). This may sound like a great idea as you wash down your fifth cocktail but I can't see anyone (other than a few ideologically blind-bats like Delay or one of the other brain-dead zombies) putting their name to such a potential disaster.

[Dr.Phool]

20. Does that mean Lieberman will run with it?

[Generator]

37. Hey I appreciated the dark humour!

[Just Me]

12. I agree. They will definitely shoot themselves in the foot with this one.

Every conservative I know is TOTALLY in opposition to any national (consumption) tax. They'll really be reeling now 'cause they've been told only the neo-commie liberal Democrats would suggest such a thing.

Watch heads roll on this one.

[mermaid]

13. It Would Kill The Economy!!

people would STOP buying anything they didn't absolutely need in order to avoid taxes.

No more big-screen TV's...people would continue to repair old stuff instead of buying new....imagine what this would do to the price of a new car, for example.

[DemocracyInaction]

17. mermaid---EXACTLY. I started to think and then started to think of

the real big items---like a car. Can you imagine buying a car for say $25,000 and having to pay like around $8,000 in taz---buybye to the car industry. Or, think of going to the grocery store. It's nothing to drop $100 (in fact cheap for a family) and have the bill ring in at $130!! Think people will notice????

[hedgehog]

16. What was Greenspan's connection to Ayn Rand?

I'm under the impression he was a close disciple who actually worked with her, not just someone who read her books. Given that, how in the world did he achieve such a position of authority?

[EVDebs]

31. Bob Woodward's book "Maestro" mentions this ..... but looky here

Greenspan Shrugged
http://www.commondreams.org/views/041800-106.htm

""For longtime watchers of Greenspan the move was incongruous, if not outright risky. As a disciple of Ayn Rand, later as an economic guru for the Republican Party, and still later as a lobbyist for financial corporations, Greenspan has disagreed with regulation as a tool to protect consumers and the well-being of a free enterprise economy. Greenspan has argued that the self-interest of the corporations – the desire of corporations to protect their reputation – was all that was necessary for consumer protection.""

With the recinding of Glass-Stegall Act, we find that ID Thefts are the fastest growing criminal activity, and your info is now outsourced and offshored to India and timbucktu. Banks have now protected themselves with the new anti-class-action laws and are preventing consumers from finding out about the extent of foreign extortionists who steal data and threaten the banks !

Welcome to Greenspan's new deregulated-banking world...the rich get richer and 'the base' gets the vig.

I remember that 'the base' in Arabic is Al Qaeda. 'The Base' in English is looking like a bigger threat to our economy -- George Bush's "Base"!

[DemocracyInaction]

19. I wonder what Freepers think??--in answer to my own post

I couldn't help thinking that as I typed it. I want to hear the defense of something like this which means most of them will not be able to afford the internet in order to post on Jim Bob's rag page----well, I guess there are some blessings in it all.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemocracyInaction]

27. Wait until the ass has no business !!! That's what I love about these

idiots. Whatever he does for a living, I can guarantee him that he will lose easily 60-70% of his business if this comes into being. They never grasp that, though, do they??

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian David]

24. Bottom Line: Osama Won

[NC_Nurse]

25. Well, I really hope SOMETHING bites

them in the ass soon! Every day they pull more and more outrageous shit out of their bag of tricks.

-Killing Social Security
-Pushing to get abortion rights taken out of the UN's policy on Women's rights
-Funding DISCRIMINATION against different religous beliefs in their "faith-based" job training programs.
-Stacking the courts with RW activist judges
-the class action bill
-the bankruptcy bill
-the obscenely inhumane budget

I'm suffering from outrage fatigue!

:shrug:

[BlueManDude]

26. They feel invulnerable - controlling the media will do that to ya.

They may in fact be invulnerable.

[scarletlib]

33. if the bankruptcy bill passes and then they do this

there will be massive poverty, hunger and homelessness throughout the land. Not even the la-la media would be able to hide the horror.

How much more will the people tolerate before they rise up and say no more.

[GreenPartyVoter]

35. Consumption tax.... no going bankrupt... hmmm.. Sounds like the GOP

wants us to sell our souls to the company store.

[Disturbed]

38. RW is throwing all the shit on the wall...

and preying that some of it will stick. Yes, "preying".

The Right Wing Agenda

Abolish

Social Security
Medicare
Employer supplied health insurance
Unemployment Benefits
Welfare
Abortion Rights
Collective Bargaining
EPA
Public Education
Public Housing
IRS

[napi21]

40. I posted that very statement yesterday!

That, and if you throw out enough controversial ideas, your opposition won't be able to fight them all at one time, and some slip through while they're trying to figure out which ones to fight first.

[zacho]

39. It's Ironic

that Republican tax nuts are furious with the income tax because they believe it inspires people not to attempt to earn money, but this consumption tax, which they are open to, would be an incentive for people not to spend their money. It would drastically reduce the velocity of circulation in the economy and cause overnight inflation. Furthermore, it would encourage the rich to buy more of their goods from foreign sources and duty free sites.

[Generator]

42. Oh yeah baby because nobody is tighter with a dollar

than the rich. Ya see that's where the word "conservative" comes from. And they certainly wouldn't be for this if it didn't benefit them. Against-waging the mininimum wage. For-taking away social security and taxing food. Those sneaky evil bastards, you gotta love 'em.

[American Tragedy]

43. This would be ruinous. Think Great Depression.

Consumption would be decimated across the board, as the wealthy spent their money abroad and the poor sharply cut back on all non-essential spending. Elderly people living on Social Security would go from paying essentially no taxes to paying 30%, and other indigent citizens would be wiped out by the hundreds of thousands. It would also engender a massive black market the likes of which the world has never seen. Consequently, circulation in the economy would plummet, and the government would almost certainly struggle to draw enough revenue to sustain itself.

These supply-side freaks love to downplay the demand-driven American economy, forgetting that it doesn't matter if you can increase production two fold or ten fold if there are no customers able or willing to buy the goods.