I'm getting sick of being told I have to swear allegiance to Kerry!

[MoonRiver]

I DO NOT support Kerry for 2008. He shat in our collective face when he wouldn't fight, ONE F'N DAY, for us against the forces of darkness. Now, he can take his political toys and go home, for all I care. But I really resent people demanding I be Kerry's permanent cheerleader, just because, I GUESS, he was the last Democratic presidential candidate (??). (Sorry folks, been there done that. Now, I'm moving on.) Anyway, I like to think that the Democratic Party is America's last bastion of tolerance for differing opinions. I'm not feeling that is the case among the Kerry crowd.

[rockymountaindem]

1. Show me one post where someone has asked you to swear anything.

[MoonRiver]

3. OK, here's the latest one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1664765

[rockymountaindem]

22. That was just a request to stop the bashing

and a plea that we support all our leaders when they deserve it. Nowhere in that post did the poster demand that we swear fealty to Kerry.

[cestpaspossible]

35. So what you are saying is, your charge is false.

No one actually did any such thing, it was a mischaracterization of the facts on your part.

[kerrygoddess]

42. Show me where I said swear your allegiance

Kerry's working hard in the Senate and he's obviously got a lot of support. This sort of stuff is not helping our cause (Dems in general)at all.

[MoonRiver]

65. I agree he's working hard in the Senate,

and he should stay there. But he was a disaster as a nominee. And I refuse to shut up about my feelings regarding this. I think it DOES help our cause to get the best person to run in 2008. Sorry, if I won't just get in line, but Kerry has NO entitlement to the nomination. He blew it last year and that's a fact. Yeah, it was really the Repuke rigged voting machines, but he blew it by not utilizing his "army of lawyers" to fight the bastards.

[Dawgs]

70. Disaster as a nominee...

The man received the second most votes in history. More than Clinton, Reagan, etc...

[kerrygoddess]

79. Wow...

Because you did not hear about Kerry's army of lawyers every day you assume they did nothing. Brilliant.

Again I'll reiterate, this is not about 2008, it's about now. He deserves our support for his work in the Senate. All the Senators do at this point if we want to get any where with this far right regime.

Your anger should be focused on Bush and his minions.

[Moderate Dem]

2. Does that mean

that I don't have to swear allegiance to the far left wing of the Democratic Party? I mean, fair's fair.

[quiet.american]

6. Just curious --

What or who do you consider as indicative of the "far left wing of the Democratic Party?"

[Moderate Dem]

15. Dennis Kucinich, Michael Moore, Sheila Jackson...

I could make this easy and say anyone who didn't even think Afghanistan was worth it, even with the way they treated their women.

I could go on forever.

But you probably don't like the Democrats I support, like Mark Warner, Evan Bayh, etc.

I'm old school, I want a kick-ass Democrat on defense that looks out for the working man.

[politicasista]

19. Kerry was for those people. The media never covered anything he said

[Eloriel]

24. Don't you DARE use Afghani women to justify that war

I could make this easy and say anyone who didn't even think Afghanistan was worth it, even with the way they treated their women.

"The way they treat their women" (THEIR women? possessive case?) had absolutely NOTHING to do with why we went to war there, and the plight of Afghani women is not substantially improved so quit using women to justify the war, as the Repugs have tried to do.

[Imperialism Inc.]

27. Noticed that too.

"their women".

That war has accomplished absolutely nothing in the long run. Was just a grieving nation lashing out like a 2 year old.

[Mass]

32. Agreed

The fate of Afghani women was not a reason why we went to war in Afghanistan.

BTW, the US were responsible for the Talibans to be there in the first place.

[Moderate Dem]

38. Bill Maher said...

that freedom was about the 4th or so reason offered by Bush to go to Iraq. Then he said that if that had been the 1st reason, he would have supported him immediately. I would have to. Liberals should be about freedom, and you don't have to be a NeoCon to want a strong defense and a sense of justice in the world. I am so fucking tired of people being for or against issues because they think their party wants them to be. Whatever happened to being for or against an issue because it's the right thing to do?

I supported invading Afghanistan BEFORE 9/11 because of the brutality of the Taliban.

Sorry about the words I chose in that post though.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ms. Clio]

30. What have Mark Warner and Evan Bayh done for the working man?

[Moderate Dem]

33. Like I said,

I want a strong defense Democrat. You know, Truman, Humphrey, Scoop Jackson, that kind of guy. People forget this, but until Vietnam (and yes, I opposed that war) liberals were much stronger on defense than Republicans.


Most Democrats are much friendlier to the working man than most Republicans, obviously.

[Ms. Clio]

40. No, you said, "I want a kick-ass Democrat on defense that looks out for

the working man."

Then you mentioned Bayh and Warner as if they were examples of that.

But apparently you can't actually point to anything they've done that "looks out for the working man" at all.

Got it.

[Moderate Dem]

41. Oh, jeeeez...

OK, Mark Warner is the Governmor of my state, Virginia. He has done much to provide relief to the depressed southwestern part of the state. He forged a compromise with moderate Republicans in this very conservative state to pass a moderate tax package to help the state's recovery from the previous Republican governor's car tax cut, which ruined our finances. This started a war in the Republican Party here.

He has reached across the aisle, and now Virginia is the best run state in America. Pardon me if I think that is good for working people.

Mark Warner is a good friend to the working people of Virginia, and a good moderate Democrat, the kind that I want in the White House.

[Ms. Clio]

47. "Virginia is the best run state in America"

Perhaps you have a link to some sort of statistical information to back that claim up?

As for him being the kind of Dem you want in the White House, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. Just as my opinion is that Dennis Kucinich is a TRUE friend to the working man and exactly the kind of Dem that I want in the White House.

[Moderate Dem]

68. "Virginia Gets Top Grade in Management "

"— Government Performance Project rates the states;
Virginia is the only state to get straight A’s —"

http://www.vaexcels.governor.virginia.gov/TempContent/Best_Managed_State.cfm

Although I'll give Kucinich points for being a good guy and really caring about people, he couldn't get 5% of America's voted for President.

[mrgorth]

80. Did he also reach across the aisle to make VA the most anti-gay

state in the union or was that more of a "roll over" maneuver. Look, we all want dems that are for the working man and I think it's safe to say that just about everyone here wants dems that are strong on defense. That does not mean we need to support everything defense oriented. Iraq, missile defense, and the new nukes do not make us one iota stronger as a nation. The bottom line is that as long as the cons can continue to say that they support everything on defense they will be more "kick ass" than us. Do you think we should demand we declare war on North Korea or Iran so we're "running to the right"?

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

64. I doubt that!

[quiet.american]

76. Why do you support Evan Bayh as a "kick-ass" Democrat?

I'm serious in asking this and it's not my intent to be facetious.

[whistle]

4. No one here on DU suggests swearing allegiance to any

...candidate, that's over in freeper-ville. I'm still very disappointed in Kerry, although I'm beginning to again listen and pay closer attention to what he does as Senator. He will have to earn my trust back, but I'm open, no strings though and certainly no signed pledges to the Kerry camp.

[politicasista]

8. What more do you want from Kerry

Let's see he voted against Condi and Gonzales, voted against the Bankruptcy bill, has a lawsuit pending in Ohio, still believes in counting every vote (ok it's late), Kids-first health care bill, the Alaska thing. I guess Kerry will have to jump in the water and save the wales just to please people. How sad.

[whistle]

53. Just keep doing what he is doing, hammering down BushCo

...exposing the lies, the corruption, the incompetence, telling the truth and working his ass off, setting the example, being the leader of the party.

[Chelsea Patriot]

67. Kerry has no obligation to Wales.

Kerry, however, did have an obligation to the people of the United States who voted for him. He failed miserably at that obligation.

Kerry should have known that underhanded, illegal activity would happen in OH, FL and the rest of the battleground states. Everyone on this board knew.

Kerry should have been prepared. He wasn't.

Although he managed to scam enough coin out of me and everyone else with his in-the-street volunteers with their "Would you like to help John Kerry defeat George Bush? We're collecting money for the recount now." song and dance.

To think, I willingly sought out and approached these volunteers with money in hand. I feel like a damn Fool...

Foolish as I feel, at least I proofread my posts and use spell-check.

[politicasista]

5. Like someone else can do so much better than Kerry.

:mad:

[Mass]

7. Not the point

The point is that nobody is asking to pledge alliegance to Kerry. This is not what the thread pointed to is about.

[politicasista]

11. Sorry Mass

My bad.

[liberalpragmatist]

9. People are just asking for the bashing to stop

And for some people to credit him with a good job as senator the past few weeks.

Nobody's asking you to support him in '08. Hell, I'm a big fan and I'M not sure I'm going to support him in '08 - we may well need a new face or at least a "newer" face. But that's years off.

Basically, stop the Kerry-bashing, that's all.

[uppityperson]

10. It takes all types, and many are highly opinionated here

I'll support Kerry for positive things he does, but not for Pres. 2008 either (unless he is the only choice) and don't bother telling me I'm bad because I have a right to my opinion as you do yours. We can fight for the same causes, just differently sometimes. And that is OK. So hang in their MyPetRock, some of us feel this way too and I, for one, don't bother with those threads anymore because they don't seem to do any good for anyone. Onward with other battles.

[politicasista]

13. Why do you feel somebody else is better?

I am just curious.

[uppityperson]

17. He "lost" to the stupidest man on earth

"Lost" is in quotes because I don't think Mr.bush won but stole the election, but enough people did vote for Mr.bush to apall me. 2008 is yrs away and I'm not backing anyone right now. Whoever I do back will either earn my trust or be the only hope against the repubs.

[politicasista]

20. Try to break through the ranks of the media and the courts

[uppityperson]

21. Media control really scares me

Advertising works, repetition works. People are stupid, scared, want to believe it so they do. Media control is mind control and really scares me.

[Sapphire Blue]

51. Repeat after me...

The current leaders of the Republican Party represent the extreme right wing of their party. They are irresponsible, reckless, extreme and radical.

They do not represent mainstream America.


Framing the GOP

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/framing_the_gop.php

[uppityperson]

54. I know, but people still believe the media bs

mainstream america does not know what to believe so they watch and listen and believe the repetitive propagandish bs. "I didn't want to vote for Mr.bush because I don't like what he's doing but I just don't like to look at John Kerry", Mr.bush"Is keeping us safe", blah blah blah. Sigh

[Sapphire Blue]

55. REPEAT AFTER ME...

The current leaders of the Republican Party represent the extreme right wing of their party. They are irresponsible, reckless, extreme and radical.

They do not represent mainstream America.

People watched & listened & believed what the extreme right wing programmed them to believe while hijacking & perverting Christianity, morals, and values for their sadistic, twisted agenda. It’s time for mass deprogramming, time to reclaim and restore Christianity, morals, and values, time to restore civil liberties, civil rights, and human rights, and it’s time to identify ourselves as mainstream America. We are mainstream America.

Again, repeat after me...

The current leaders of the Republican Party...

[Dawgs]

71. So blame the stupid people and the media...

Do you think anyone else could have beat Bush. Kerry was a war hero for fuck's sake. Do you think they wouldn't have destroyed any other canidate?

[Mass]

16. Nobody is asking you to support him for 2008

I like what you say. It is perfectly reasonnable.

It is just frustrating to find that some people criticize him even when he does good things.

[MoonRiver]

18. I will also vote for him in 2008 if he's the candidate. I said so in the

other thread. But, there's an aura of entitlement in the posts of those who support him for 2008. I hope he's not the candidate because he probably won in 2004, but refused to fight for the presidency, and thereby screwed US all.

[BeatleBoot]

12. I've NEVER read it here at DU

I see the link above and I will go to it after this post...

Spirited debate during and around the primaries...Greens piping in to make themselves known....but no allegiance swearing....

That said, I am a huge Kerry fan.....

[Goldeneye]

14. I don't care if you support him.

That's up to you. A lot of people were hurt when he conceded. I can't say that I see how things would have changed if he'd have fought...maybe they would have, maybe not. From what I can see Bush Co was never going to lose in 2004, just like the Iraq war was never going to be anything other than a success and just like in 2006 there is really no reason to believe (unless there is true election reform in the next year) the democrats will gain seats in congress. The republicans can't lose the house or impeachment charges will be brought out.

I'm not sure what political toys you're refering to, but I think Kerry has been doing as much as anyone to fight the Bush administration since Nov. 3. The only thing the Kerry supporters are asking is that those who are forever pissed at Kerry understand that he has been making the right votes, speaking out at the right times...They could care less who anyone supports for 2008 right now. All this bitching needs to stop now.

[Berserker]

43. I supported Kerry in every way I could

but I will quote one sentence: I can't say that I see how things would have changed if he'd have fought...maybe they would have, maybe not. The point here is that He did NOT fight he conceded within hours of the vote. What the outcome would have been if he did fight we will never know. That right there is the reason I will not vote for him if he runs again in 08. What he is doing as a senator now is what anyone should be doing in his position this is why he was elected as a senator.

[Goldeneye]

46. I agree with you for the most part,

Kerry is now doing exactly what he should be doing. And of course it is your right to not vote for Kerry again. If there is a candidate that you think will be better vote for them...thats democracy. I will vote for whoever the democratic candidate is in the general election...but support for anyone in the primaries is obviously premature.

I believe Kerry did a good job running against the machine. I'm not sure he made the right choice conceding when he did. I'm not sure what he knew when. I'm just not sure. I do know that I trust him almost implicitly(...which is probably bad when it comes to a politician, but his voting record speaks for itself, and his history is even more compelling) and if he decided not to fight, there was a reason.

[Lizzie Borden]

23. OK. You don't have to swear allegiance to anybody.

I really don't care. I happen to still support Kerry. I haven't seen anybody remotely better and I do appreciate when he stands up for something (like the environment). But you should be able to express your opinion.

[uppityperson]

26. Thank you, appreciate people like you. n/t

[Imperialism Inc.]

25. I think Kerry has been doing a heck of a job since the election.

I didn't much like him before. Held my nose and pushed the button for him. Between 2000 and 2004 he was mostly ,in my eyes, an enabler and weak spined and played politics big time on some very important votes.
However, the past is the past. I don't think anyone is asking for any pledges of allegiance or forgiveness. Just a simple "atta boy" for the good things he is doing now instead of harping on him for things gone by. I have to agree.

[LittleClarkie]

28. You don't HAVE to. THAT's the POINT.

Just don't piss in the Wheaties of those who feel like supporting his efforts in the Senate is all.

When someone posts about health care, don't whine about IWR.

When someone posts about ANWR, don't whine about the concession.

Start your own thread, and whine there.

Postitive action people. Positive action.

I don't swear allegiance to Hillary, but I'll support her voters bill. That's all I'm talkin' bout.

Ya dig?

[wildmanj]

29. kerry

fool me once shame on kerry----fool me twice shame on me-----no more kerry for this democrat---zero zilch

[politicasista]

31. Who is your candidate then?

I love it when attack our former nominees. I guess Gore didn't get this much kind of abuse when he ran.

[Mass]

34. You would be surprised.

Nader people said he was the same thing as Bush.

[politicasista]

36. I am sorry again Mass

I need to stop jumping to conclusions and see the obvious.

[Mass]

39. Nothing to be sorry about

I remembered you said once on CGCS that it was your first campain, so I understand.

[sendero]

37. Nor do I....

... I think JK is a fine senator, but IMHO he has reached the peak of what he is capable of handling as senator.

He's not a president and I hope we nominate someone in 08 that can win. The reason I poke my nose in some of the cheerleading threads is that is positively offends me that it looks like he is starting up his 2008 bid, starting with blowing off Ohio.

Fuck that shit, I'm not voting for anyone who thinks he can win by playing that card. Anyone that doesn't like it can really kiss my ass. And the 2-4 folks around here who seem to only be here to boost Kerry (they don't post anything else ever) well they can kiss it twice.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheDonkey]

44. Bashers need to STFU about Kerry

No one is saying to swear allegiance to Kerry or to support him in 2008.

No need to bash one of the few Senators out there actually fighting for us.

oh, and if someone did tell you to sign the blood oath put them on Ignore if it hurts your feelings so...

[NVMojo]

45. Then don't. And get over it.

[TankLV]

50. Nobody has ever told any other DU'r to do that.

NOBODY.

I certainly haven't and wouldn't.

Frankly, I won't swear allegiance to ANYBODY.

[Gyre]

52. Who knows if it's a concerted effort.

But I know the Hillary contingent has been at it for awhile. Just keep on running that flag up the pole and we'll see if we even have a pole in '08.

Gyre

[Califooyah Operative]

56. 08? How about just no bashing and perhaps a little respect - nobody's ask

ing for allegience.

[LittleClarkie]

57. Well, not yet anyway.

These things take... time, you know.

By the way, don't have an allergies to chicken blood, do you Pet Rock. That could complicate things. We could substitute the blood of a virgin, but darn it, they're so hard to find nowadays.

Just let us know when you're ready darling.

We'll be waiting

:evilfrown:

[Q]

58. The Kerry 'supporters' are being a bit disingenuous...

...when they insist that no one is trying to shove THEIR candidate down our throats or that they're not asking for our loyalty. The fact is that they have been pushing Kerry on this board ever since the media intimated that he was 'considering' another run in 2008.

I have no problem with DUers who want Kerry to run again. But this blatant and premature campaigning for Kerry is doing more damage than good and makes the assumption that Democrats are like RWing lemmings and will follow without considering other options. We can see the writing on the wall. By the time 2008 rolls around...Democrats will once again be told that they must 'want the party to lose' if they don't support Kerry or (Hillary).

I have to say that many Kerry supporters seem to have adopted the tactics of the RWing bullies with their attacks on those who have a difference of opinion about Kerry's policies and leadership abilities. It seems that it's okay to start a thread praising and promoting Kerry...but it's not acceptable for non-supporters to express a dissenting opinion within that context.

The fact remains: While Kerry was in the national spotlight...he had many opportunities to speak out about the important issues and scandals that are literally destroying America. But he chose to play it safe and let the Bush government off the hook on issues ranging from corporate accountability to election fraud to 9-11 accountability to government secrecy and corruption to war profiteering to deceiving this nation into unnecessary and illegal wars.

Many Democrats also resent the fact that Kerry wasn't true to his record, took the base for granted and became a mouthpiece for the corporate DLC betrayers of party values and principles.

Kerry supporters have every right to promote and support him. But they don't have a right to trash non-supporters and suggest that they are less loyal to the party or are 'Dem bashers'.

[marcologico]

62. Oh please. This is DU and the rules disallow any kind of "bullying."

And my experience is that in this case at least the rules are enforced.

[Dawgs]

73. For Christ's Sake... Can you people even read?

Nobody has a problem with posters bashing Kerry. They have a problem when someone bashes Kerry in a positive thread about Kerry's work.

If you want to start your own thread to bash Kerry, then do it.

Also, just as many people have been pushing Hillary, Dean, Clark, etc.

You people make me sick. It's not all about you.

[blm]

74. Kerry attacked Bush on everything, but the media chose what to highlight.

Hey...let's give the Swift Liars even more airtime.

[graywarrior]

59. Get out the Lysine

It's back.

[Q]

61. And it's here to stay...

Might as well get used to it. The 'left' of the Democratic party will never be like the RWing clones that are 'convinced' to vote against their country's and party's interest for the 'chance' of 'winning'.

You'll also have to learn to accept that many Democrats will NOT choose Kerry in 2008...for various reasons. He's a great senator...but that's all he'll ever be. And that should be enough.

[marcologico]

63. Lysine?

I don't get it. :shrug:

[graywarrior]

77. The herpes Kerry basher virus

[marcologico]

60. Senators are human. Would it hurt to toss a few crumbs to the handful

who are actually resisting the Enronization of America? After Akaka's little stunt yesterday that basically leaves Boxer, Kennedy and Kerry.

p.s. Durbin, Lautenberg, Feingold and maybe a couple of others too.

:eyes:

[MoonRiver]

66. I'm not bashing him as a Senator. I just do not want him running in 2008.

And I don't like the implications I read that he's got some kind of entitlement to that.

[kerrygoddess]

84. Honestly...

The only people really making implications about that are those of you who keep insisting you don't want him to run again.

Guess what? We got that! Guess whatelse? Hundreds of thousands of people may differ with you! One more thing... Kerry has said over and over again he's focusing on 2006 and getting more Democrats in Senate & House. He's not even looking at 2008 yet.

[NVMojo]

69. Kerry is not the issue. Wake up!

[graywarrior]

78. Why do they not get this?

Regroup dems! or join the libertarians.

[Malva Zebrina]

81. This continued aggressiveness toward those who post a differing view

on the junior Senator from Massachusetts, is doing more harm than good, imo.

Turns me off anyhow.

2008 is a long way off yet and to indulge in these types of what appear to be gang assaults looks more and more like the tactics of Bush and the Rebublicans rather than those purporting to be Democrats. Further, to add to it's ridiculous time wasting efforts to elevate Kerry as the next contender now, it is stirring up conflict purposely, over something that may or may not happen in 2008. It is childish to continue to harrass those whose vision is a little more mature and is really an air ball swing, swinging at something most people don't care much about at this point.

[WI_DEM]

82. then swear allegiance to me instead :)

just trying to add some levity.

[JHBowden]

83. Maybe you *should* swear allegiance to Kerry.

Seriously dude, no one has suggested you do that. Until now!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

85. oops..I clicked instead of hitting the white X..nevermind