What the hell is wrong with Jesse Jackson?

[saracat]

He wants the feeding tube reconnected? Has he thrown his lot in with the fundies.? Does he have no respect for the judicial system? This is just outrageous! He is mixing politics and religion and is as bad as the repukes! Has he changed his position on choice as well? What about evolution? Maybe he doesn't believe in that anymore either! Thank God he wasn't elected to anything. This proves he will do anything for publicity!

[Zuni]

1. FR has a thread on it

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1373209/posts

[saracat]

2. Oh this looks just great for us. And they are praising Lieberman too!

Gag!

[Mz Pip]

3. I don't want Jesse Jackson

George Bush, Tom DeLay Joe Lieberman, or Ralph Nader making medical decisions for me or my family.

Don't care if they are left, right or center. The whole lot of them needs to butt out.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[FreedomAngel82]

41. Exactly

The only person who should be allowed to make the decision in a case like this is your next of kin whether it be your mother or your husband. Everybody else needs to butt the hell out.

[googly]

52. Then why is not Terri's MOTHER allowed to have her say?

I would think if there is no WRITTEN living will,
then your mother and father should have as much to say
about your life as a spouse who already has ANOTHER spouse
for all practical purposes.

[nonconformist]

64. Besides the whole sanctity of marriage bit

Mrs. Schiavo's parents have stated that even had Terri told them herself that she did not wish to be kept alive with tubes that they would still fight this because it's not what THEY believe.

[googly]

68. What sanctitiy of marriage? Michael Schiavo was having sex

with another woman while still married to Terri.

[nonconformist]

72. Legally they're still married

It's not our business to make moral judgments about people and base life or death decisions upon them. That is, unless you'd like armchair critics reading about your life on the internet to make those choices for you.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

115. Yes, it is.

That's what society is all about. I agree with you (or at least, I suspect I do) that in this case the right thing to do is to let Mrs Schiavo die, but I can perfectly well concieve of situations where the right thing to do was to keep someone alive against the wishes of their next of kin, or (although it would be a harder decision to make) would be to let them die against those wishes.

FWIW, if I didn't believe that Mrs Schiavo had asked not to be kept alive artificially after brain death, and if the medical evidence was even very slightly less conclusive than I believe it is, I would side with those protesting to keep her body alive, even in defiance of her husband's wishes.

I think you're overgeneralising, I'm afraid.

[saracat]

81. A better argument could be made that Michael isn't married to Terri as

she dies fifteen years ago! He then wouldn't have spousal rights! But he would still have dispositon of the corpse!

[liberalpragmatist]

69. And the courts have ruled

There are some legitimate conflict-of-interest questions. But I think it's wrong to doubt Michael Schiavo's sincerity. His in-laws encouraged him to start seeing other women back in the early 90s. He has pledged to give the $700,000 in Terri's trust fund (which he controls) to charity. He sits by her bedside often.

I can understand there being a family dispute. The parents had a right to sue. But the courts have ruled and there's a thing called rule of law in this country. The same question you just brought up has been raised in court after court after court. Court after court has ruled in Michael Schiavo's favor.

[saracat]

80. No they don't. You think wrong.They are not legally your next of kin.

Terri made her choice when she married Michael.And who he is living with now is none of ANYONE"s business. He was acknowledged to have lost the "consortium" of his wife by the lawsuit. He can't live with Terri. She doesn't exist mentally. I guess you think he should be celibate. I can't think why you would force your religious beliefs on someone else.Or disregard the rule of law to suit that belief!

[saracat]

4. Jackson is defending a pedophile and wants a brain dead woman kept alive

against her wishes and is for the subversion of the judicial system! Has he just gone nuts? And to think I used to admire this guy!

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. Jackson has an uncanny ability for championing losing causes.

It would be a good idea for the Dems to recognize this and avoid this guy from now on.Ever since he got wrapped up in that infidelity thing he seems to be getting involve where he doesn't belong. Why doesn't he use his celebrity for more practical and useful campaigns?

[saracat]

9. Interesting you mention the infidelity thing.

I don't happen to give a rats ass, but he really isn't in the position to judge Michael Shiavo for having another relationship , is he?

[The_Casual_Observer]

18. In my view, Jackson can only do more harm than good

in this debate. I don't get it, he ought to be putting all of his energy into the SS and Medicare issues where he might be able to motivate positive action.

[cmkramer]

21. She's not brain-dead

The parts of her brain that are working -- those parts that govern automatic responses -- are working fine. That's why she isn't on a ventilator or hooked up to machines. However, the part of her brain that would govern thought and individuality is pretty much gone.

[saracat]

23. I consider that "brain dead".She only has part of the lower level function

But technically you are correct.

[googly]

53. If my daughter is in a similar situation as Terri, I would want her

kept alive so long as she is not in any serious pain
of any kind. I would never allow my daughter to be
starved to death when her brain is functioning enough
to regulate her heart, her digestive system, her circulatory
system, her vital organs such as liver & kidney & lungs etc.

In fact my wife was kept alive on a ventillator, kidney dialysis,
and feeding tubes for 14 days when she woke up from her coma.
This Terri person needs nothing more than ordinary food & water
injected directly into her stomach. Starving her to death reminds
me of dark days in Germany when Hitler ordered many such executions.

[AntiCoup2K4]

75. There's a bit of a difference between 14 days and 15 YEARS.

Not to mention that I doubt your wife's brain looked like this....

[priller]

95. Oh good grief, this is NOT an execution!

Unlike your wife in the coma, Terri has no hope of recovering. She is (or rather, was) being kept alive artificially. Even though it's just a feeding tube, and needs "nothing more" than food and water to stay alive, it's still being kept alive artificially. Pulling the tube is not murdering her, or killing her, and certainly not executing her, it's allowing her to die naturally.

And the Hitler comment is way WAY out of line. There's simply no comparison between killing millions for the purpose of ethnic cleansing and allowing a severely brain-damaged and unconscious person to die.

[googly]

109. OK, I will grant you the Hitler comment was out of line...

but where is the harm if the natural parents want to
take full responsibility to keep her alive? And FWIW
if I was in a similar state as Terri S, I would not
want to go on living in a "vegitative" state. But, if
I had no written living will, and if either my parents or
my wife wanted to keep me alive, then the life option
should take percedence over the death option.

[Zhade]

114. THEY WILL DEFY HER WISHES, THAT'S WHY!

The courts have ruled - repeatedly - that the evidence shows she would not want to live like this.

It's been decided. It's DONE. Her wishes are being fulfilled. Giving her over to her parents would be defying her legally-recognized wishes!

What is it about following the law that people don't seem to comprehend?

[googly]

118. There is NO documented proof Teri wanted to be killed by starvation

all we have is what her estranged husband claims she had told him.
That is not sufficient for me to kill a person.

[Zhade]

126. Thankfully, the decision was up to the informed, competent court.

Numerous judges who have examined every facet of this case more closely than you possibly could disagree with you.

I'm glad Terri's wishes are finally being carried out. You know, the wishes the court ruled existed and applied in this case. Your side lost the legal battle (and the moral one, since 82% of Americans think Congress and b**sh stepping in was wrong).

Time to let her go and let her spirit rest in peace.

[chickenscratching]

97. right

we're offing terri schiavo just like hitler offed a bunch of jewish people, homosexuals and gypsies.
if that's your big issue here, then maybe we should be allowed to inject morphine into your body, OD style.
but no. that's not allowed! that's EUTHANASIA!!!!!!
your doggy can go out in a much less painful fashion than Terri schiavo can.
what do you think?

[Zhade]

113. Would you keep her alive against her wishes?

That's what this all boils down to - you either respect their wishes, or you don't.

[KittyWampus]

28. She Is About 90% Brain Dead. The Small Part That Remains Has No

capacity to hold conscious awareness.

[googly]

54. Every one of her vital organs such as Heart, Liver, Kidneys, Lungs

etc are functioning great on what you call 10% of her brain.
That is not enough reason to starve her to death. I bet Hitler
is smiling on Michael Schiavo.

[liberalpragmatist]

70. She has no capacity to feel pain

All that works for her are reflex actions. She has had bedsores and constant infections. What kind of life is that worth living? And the Hitler comment is completely out of line. He isn't destroying a perfectly healthy life. He isn't battling to kill her against all evidence.

The courts have ruled and hundreds of doctors have confirmed that there is no hope for rehabilitation. She will continue to live but it is a meaningless existence, devoid of anything one could call life. How is this humane?

And as for the starvation bit, please read about the medical wisdom on removing feeding tubes. Even if she could feel pain, she likely would not. In terminally ill patients, removal of feeding tubes often occurs around the time patients lose appetite or thirst. The body has a natural process of shutting down. Loss of appetite and thirst is part of that. Accounts from terminally ill patients back this up.

[chickenscratching]

98. freeper?

what's the deal?
what a brash comparison!
Michael Schiavo vs. Hitler? oh, wait. WAIT! i see. So Michael Schiavo allowing his wife to pass on due to her PVS state is the same as sending people to the death camps to be separated from family, tortured or killed.
and i'm sure Hitler is smiling down on all of the american race to see what a WASP fucking society this is! do you get my drift?

[googly]

108. Call me any names you wish, but I will never stop fighting

for every living person, no matter how injured or handicapped,
to be able to live out their natural life. Unless a person has
expressly written down in a living will that she/he wishes to be
allowed to die when unable to survive longterm on their own, then
yes, I choose life over death.

[chickenscratching]

112. this isn't about living wills, googly

it's about the fact that you brashly compared Michael Schiavo to Hitler twice in this thread. Please explain the logistics behind this.

[googly]

117. Because as you surely know, the Nazi's killed a whole bunch

of people who were severly handicapped, such as mentally retarded
and other brain malfunctions. I am having trouble seeing the
difference between that and the killing of Terri Schiavo.

[chickenscratching]

120. ok

first of all, where is it written that Michael Schiavo motivations for removing Terri Schiavo's tube are related to creating an aryan race?
maybe your knowledge of the Holocaust is pretty slim, because this isn't making sense.
and how is Michael Schiavo killing anybody?
please explain.

[saracat]

124. Are you anti-choice as well? I am getting the impression you are.

[googly]

125. My position on Choice.....

First trimester.....mothers choice, no questions asked.
Second trimester....mother's health has to be at dire risk
if pregnency carried out to full term. So it must be approved by 3
different medical doctors.
Third trimester....if the fetus is capable of surviving on
its own outside the mother's body if a C-section is performed,
then I am against killing the child through a late term abortion.

I think my position is the most rational, logical & humane
compromise.

[saracat]

128. I guess that would be classified as partially anti-Choice.

I understand your point but I don't agree that anyone has a right to put limits on someone else's choice over what to do with their body! Many women who are irregular can have a malfunction of a contraceptive and not realize that they are pregnant until the second trimester or later. What is they simply don't WANT a child. You would be forcing them to have one because you would impose your position on them. I view this as not my business. This is a personal matter that only the women can decide.
As far as late term third trimester abortions, so few are performed and the stress on the womans body is such that they aren't even worth discussing. I have heard of some s cases in which the child would survive but be in agony for several hours after birth and then die. Would that child be viable to you? And what of the cases of multiple births where they are not aware until late that one fetus must be killed in order for the other babies to be born, or results in the death of the mother. Often if nothing is done in such situation all the babies and the mother could die. You make no allowances for such situations.
Choice shouldn't have limits except by the woman. She must be in control of her own body, no one else. I think you are well intentioned but I think you are imposing your views on someone else and putting limits on something you have no right to do. Thank you for your response.

[otohara]

96. Jesse Easter Interview w/ Pedophile was

nauseating.

Tell us about your big family Michael?

Did you have any pets Michael?

Did Santa bring you what you wanted Michael?

Is it true your estate was built for the sole purpose of
bringing fun and laughter to sick children everywhere Michael?

[BrklynLiberal]

5. I definitely do not understand the basis for his position on this.

I wonder if his son, the Representative from Illinois agrees with him.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

11. He does.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll090.xml

He voted for the bill.

[BrklynLiberal]

36. Thanks for the info..

[Freedom_from_Chains]

19. I have heard David Boise, Gore's lead attorney in the election debacle

on TV a couple of times arguing for the conservation position on this issue. I also just saw that viper, Terry Randel, holding a press conference, claiming they just about have the Florida legislature ready to vote on a bill tomorrow that would allow Jeb to take Terry into custody and put the feeding tube back in.

[Selteri]

6. Jesse reminds me of Paul

After his Christ-leader, Martin Luthor King Jr., was assasinated he has slowly been becomming more and more wacko as time goes on. his views perverting and forgetting the very message that he stood with.

[elehhhhna]

8. TV cameras = Jessie Jackson. SImple.

[southpaw]

14. Yep... The most dangerous place on the planet...

Is between Jesse Jackson and a Camera

[zappaman]

16. Exactly.

Jesse Jackson is, has been, and always will be a publicity whore. I've never liked the guy and his transparent need for attention. This is just another opportunity for him to show his face.

[seabeyond]

10. it is what he and many others believe as a christian

that is all. this has always been an up in the air christian challenge. he is not a law maker, he is not a part of government stomping on a constitution and interfering with state law, he is a christian leader, and this is what they do

[FreedomAngel82]

42. I'm Christian and also

believe in the right to die and that death does not mean the end of life. Just life as we know it. Jesse Jackson and all these other people who are not immediate family members and thus should stay OUT! How hard is this to understand? :banghead:

[googly]

55. Except there is NO DOCUMENT which says Terri wants to die.

If she had such a written living will, then I agree
that she has a right to die. In absence of that, life
has to win over death.

[gulfcoastliberal]

57. I'm curious...

Say you're married and your spouse tells you she wouldn't want to live as a vegetable. You're 25 years old and don't know about living wills. You wouldn't honor her wish just because she didn't tell her parents, or maybe she did but they don't care? You wouldn't do what she wanted?

[googly]

67. Let me tell you about reality.......

99% of people wanna live if they are not in excruciating pain.
This woman Terry Schiavo has no pain whatsoever from what I
have seen, and it is hard to believe she wants to die.

[saracat]

79. Actually, this is sort of the "no brains, no feelings " thing!

There is no way of telling she wants anything. She can't think!

[chickenscratching]

100. excruciating, how?

i'd like to see a link to where it says that 99% people wanna live if they are not in excruciating pain.

it's hard to believe she wants to die?
explain this please?

[googly]

107. I don't provide links for the obvious....you want a link for sky is blue

also, I bet. Just look at your own relatives, friends (assuming you
have some), acquaintances, and ask them if in absence of any incurable
disease and pain anyone of them wants to die. I have known several
thousand people in my life (well, yeah I am pretty old) and I have
never met a single person who wishes to die of starvation or any
other means. If you know such people, please contact the support
groups for potential suiciders.

[chickenscratching]

111. my question is

why is it suicide to withdraw a tube from someone that's been dead for 15 years? You know, I really have no right to say what Terri Schiavo thinks, but I can ask the people around me.
What do the people around me think? That yes, they would want to die if they had been a vegetable for over a decade-especially if after that decade their face was going to be mashed into all of our faces via satellite for months to come.

and your idea that 90% of people would want to live, appears to not be an obvious link because it's going against what I personally feel and what my friends and family feel and what many people on this site feel. Actually it's the first time I heard the statistic so I would like to see some credibility behind it.

so please, i'm still waiting for that link.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

127. Really?

Quite a number of my friends and relatives have said that if they end up braindead or needing artificial resuscitation then they want to be allowed to die naturally. Certainly more than 50%.

Obviously, almost no-one wants to to die in the absence of incurable disease or pain. Terri Schiavo, however, had an incurable disease.

[gulfcoastliberal]

105. Fine, don't answer my question

Obviously you cannot counter my argument. And your claim is totally absurd and unsubstantiated.

[Zhade]

116. Answer the question.

NT!

[chickenscratching]

99. just plain logic right?

is it logical that her parents think even if Terri Schiavo had her limbs removed and stuck in a fucking respirator they'd still keep her alive?

[Freedom_from_Chains]

12. Are you starting to hear the wind howl through the corridors yet?

There are those here that have been arguing that the Democrats are rapidly becoming the party of appeasement.

[ginnyinWI]

13. Let's look a little deeper

If he were really so for this cause, why has he waited until now? Do I smell a political strategy here? Hmmm. Could he be trying to neutralize someone or something? :think:

[ClassWarrior]

15. Thanks for passing along that Radical RW frame...

"This proves (Rev. Jackson) will do anything for publicity."

For someone who claims to be a Progressive and active member of the Dem Party, your comments seem to include an awful lot of those.

NGU.

[saracat]

22. I am a progressive and an active Democratand I am expressing my opinion.

I have the right to criticize whenwarranted, and this is warranted. I am a Democrat and not a yes person to the appeasement fringe of the party. Jesse is bizarre lately and I am disappointed in his behavior. I am disappointed in a lot of Dems and It is not only my right but my obligation as an "active" party member to let them know of my dissatisfaction. I am sorry you don't agree. I have also often praised Democratic actions I have been proud of . I write and encourage those who have done well in MHO. This is all part of "Never Giving Up". Jesse is NOT doing well for us.

[ClassWarrior]

25. So you reserve the right to disagree with Rev. J, but he doesn't have...

...the same right to disagree with you? And if he does, you slam him ruthlessly - never mind the fact that he's been one of our most steadfast fighters?

:shrug: I don't get it.

NGU.

[saracat]

27. Whaaat? He is obviously given the right to disagree

with me, (not personally, but my viewpoint) ,on every major news network! Who is depriving him of the right to speak? You obviously think I don't have the right to criticize any Democrat. And, as noted elsewhere on this board, he is apparently no longer one of our " most steadfast fighters" !
My, god, the man has gone to the Florida legislature to get a bill enacted to give Jeb custody of Terri! That is a complete subversion of the judicial system and a real attack on civil rights! This steadfast Fighter" wants to abolish the separation of powers and you think I should be silent because he once fought on our side and is registered as a Democrat? Well, so is Zell Miller, and I won't defend him either! Wrong is wrong. .

[ClassWarrior]

29. For once I'd like to see you post a thread with this much venom for...

..."Delay/Frist/Bush/RandallTerry/hypocritical "Right to Life-ers" and power/event seeking politians that hold the circus of this whole thing on their shoulders," as Alizaryn so accurately says below.

NGU.

[saracat]

30. Maybe I am more vehement about our own because the betrayal is worse.

It is much more hurtful when we are betryed by our own kind. I expect more from Dems. They know better. And if you want to see my venom directed elsewhere, I suggest my prochoice posts. I also don't think much of the Schindlers!

[ClassWarrior]

31. Betrayal.

That one word speaks volumes.

Rev. Jackson and the Schindlers are the enemies in all this, huh? At least you have your priorities in order.

NGU.

[saracat]

33. What do you call it when they don't support the ideals of the party?

What do you call it when he doesn't support the right to die? What do you call it when some Senators won't defend the middle class and the poor and sell out to the banks with the Bankruptcy Bill? This isn't just a difference of opinion.Being a Democrat means something. If you sell out on the important issues of the party you are betraying it. Don't you think Zell Miller is a traitor?
And why would I NOT think the Shindlers are the enemies? They are linking their site to RW pro-life fundie organizations and raising money for them as well! They are selling their donor list to them RW pro-life groups! The last time I looked the RW were the enemy!

[ClassWarrior]

49. A big tent?

The Reverend Jesse Jackson DOESN'T SUPPORT THE IDEALS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY??

BWAAA-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!...

Say, let's talk about the Schindlers a bit more, why don't we, instead of Bush**, Delay, Frist, and the rest of those lovely fellows. What do you say?

<LOL>

NGU.

[saracat]

77. Bush ,Delay ,and Frist are hopeless. What is there to discuss?

We all know what we think of them and they are NEVER going to change. There is at least SOME hope that we can get some of the Dems we disagree with the change. And if we disagree with them it needs to be pointed out in order to get them to change!
It is only if we get the Dems up off their butts that we can go after Bush , Delay and Frist!
And BTW, Jesse doesn't any longer represent the Democratic viewpoint, unless you consider consorting with Randall Terry appropriate! I wonder how many Dems approve of THAT alliance!

[ClassWarrior]

92. How to defeat them. Not how to defeat our allies.

:silly:

NGU.

[Tomee450]

38. So

since Jesse,and many other democrats disagree with the treatment being given Terri, we are no longer welcomed in the Democratic party? I know quite a few blacks who are absolutely appalled at the fact that the tube has been removed. They see it as another step towards euthanasia which will first be used against blacks and poor people. It is also a matter of our faith. I find some of these attacks on Jackson and on Christians who do not support Michael Schiavo highly offensive. Black people are not allowed to have opinions of their own? We have to agree with the prevailing opinion of the Democrats? Reading some of the posts have made me so fed up. And make no mistake about it, there are blacks reading these posts and undoubtedly some are wondering if the Democratic party is truly a party of tolerance as it claims to be.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. Exactly...

When they start pulling the plug willy nilly on people it ain't going to be bourgeois caucasians with $800.00 a month health insurance plans and access to lawyers it's going to be poor folks who sadly still are disproportionately people of color...


And yes I am a bourgeois caucasian...

Peace

[saracat]

78. What has this to do with his being black? And this isn't

"euthanasia" .She isn't alive. An amoeba has more feelings than she does! She isn't disabled. Her cerebral cortex is gone! Sheesh! What is it with people? This isn't about religion. This is an accepted medical opinion. Since when did everyone become a neurologist?

[Tomee450]

121. It's too

bad that you are unable to appreciate the perspective of other people. As a black person, I have no deep trust of medical practitioners. Have you forgotten that they just pulled the plugged on a black baby whose family was poor? Have you forgotten that horrible syphilis experiments were performed on blacks? Are you unaware that many doctors do not refer black people for tests they routinely give white people? Many black people are poor. I have no difficulty whosoever in envisioning doctors stating that a black patient has no chance of recovery, then instructing that the plug be pulled. This case scares me tremendously. I know that it will be mostly black people who will be put to death on the excuse that they can never recover. It is surprising that so called progressives cannot understand why Jesse and many other black people feel the way they do. I haven't talked to any black person who thought the tube should have been removed. Their objection was based on religious beliefs and the knowledge that the same action would more than likely be applied to them, even against their wishes.

[saracat]

123. I will have to defer to your opinion on this matter as you must have more

experience than I . However I must say that the blacks that I know through involvement in the NAACP as well as the black newspaper in my City and the campaigns of several black candidates , I have not met a one that feels the tube should have been reinserted. But just because my experience differs from yours, doesn't mean you are incorrect. It means we have had different experiences.

[FreedomAngel82]

43. Jackson can disagree all he wants

but it's not his choice. Nobody's but the husband. So what? Everybody else needs to go home and butt the hell out!

[googly]

56. Looks to me like anti-pro-life people will turn on any one who

is not willing to kill babies or severely disabled persons
such as Terri.

[AntiCoup2K4]

76. She's not "severely disabled" she's fucking BRAIN DEAD.

Allow me to illustrate....



This is Stephen Hawking - A severely disabled person, physically who happens to have one of the most brilliant minds currently on the planet.


On the other hand, THIS person is brain dead.

OK, I'll take that back. Terri Schiavo, even with the fraction of her brain that remains, has more brain activity than that clueless fuck.

[ElectroPrincess]

86. I'm fully pro-life in every aspect, but even fellow CATHOLICS

disagree. Some, such as myself consider a feeding tube "extra-ordinary" measure on a cerebrally brain dead woman. Those of us who have been blessed with the means to earn an advanced degree in Physiology KNOW that a functioning brain stem does NOT constitute cognition. This woman is NOT able to feel or think because that requires the functioning of the higher brain centers of the cerebral cortex.

No Sir or Ma'am, I am fully pro-life. However, I also fully believe in the separation of Church and State. Further, I also believe it cruel MAINTAINING a feeding tube (medical intervention)into a woman who has NOT been able to think or feel for over a decade.

Basically, many lay people can NOT fully appreciate that a functioning brain stem (the ONLY entity functioning and technically qualifying her as brain damaged vice *fully* brain dead) is NOT related to thoughts or feelings ... it only takes care of the MOST basic housekeeping functions of life (heartbeat and breathing).

If these good Christians truly believe in our reward in Heaven, why are they delaying Terri's being with Our Savior via intervention of a feeding tube?

IMO, there's NOTHING pro-life about the selfishness of her parents and others who jump on the bandwagon. To extend this poor cerebrally dead (unthinking/unfeeling) woman's life is what's CRUEL and INHUMANE.

[Nikki Stone 1]

102. This is a WONDERFUL post Electro Princess!!

Just thought I'd give it a boost. Your post shows the difference between a thinking Christian and the mindless follower who hasn't a clue why they do what they do. Ethical issues need to be thought out clearly and lucidly as you have done.

[Mr_Spock]

17. He's just being Jesse - even Repukes know he doesn't represent Dems

He's an independent voice and he's as annoying as some of the RW nut-jobs at times. What can ya do. I guess they can't say that liberal Christians aren't also supporting the "feed the corpse" shtick.

[Alizaryn]

20. IMO

It is the disgusting cluster of Delay/Frist/Bush/RandallTerry/hypocritical "Right to Life-ers" and power/event seeking politians that hold the circus of this whole thing on their shoulders.

I don't agree with Rev Jackson or the parents in this situation but I don't begrudge them their feelings/opinions in the matter. Everyone has to find their own belief within themselves. Jackson is Jackson, he will always have my respect.

[SmokingJacket]

24. He's REVEREND Jesse Jackson.

Another argument for keeping religion and politics separate.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

59. Yeah

and God forbid we put another born again Christian like Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton in office again...

[ElectroPrincess]

87. I don't believe Jimmy Carter ever claimed to be "born again"?

He was raised and developed the proper moral perspectives right the FIRST time. He did not have what's equivalent to an epiphany ... something which often puts a "zap" on one's brain.

Not sure about Bill Clinton ... think he too was just practicing vice "BORN AGAIN"?

[AntiCoup2K4]

93. Actually, I think Jimmy did use those words....

...Ironically enough when he was interviewed by the "heathen" magazine Playboy. I don't have the issue or the article here, but that seems to be my recollection of it.

However, the difference between Jimmy Carter and other presidents who have claimed to be Christian, is that Jimmy didn't merely say the words, he walked the talk. And he still does.

[SmokingJacket]

90. I didn't say that.

When religious leaders become politically active, there might be certain conflicts of interest.

People seem surprised that Jackson is taking the "side" of the Republicans. My point is, Jackson is a reverend first. No one should be surprised that he's favoring his religious beliefs over politics.

A lot of people think he's just grandstanding. I think he's sincere.

Frankly... I wish the whole Schaivo thing were NOT political at all -- that it remained a legal issue. But the republicans grabbed it and ran with it.

I love the way Jimmy Carter quietly allowed his religious beliefs to inform his conduct without a)insinuating that he had been divinely installed and had a hotline to God and b)trampling on the Constitution. Seems to me he did a fine job of keeping Church and State separate while still being a fully functional religious person.

I'm hardly one to judge who is and who is not a "true" Christian, but looking at the way Carter has lived his life since he left office, he's about the truest Christian of the bunch.

[Malva Zebrina]

26. and so

Jackson agrees that the law is null and void and that the constitution is wrong,anarchy on the floor of the congress is correct, and being a Christian, agrees that the law of a god is the true law and not the courts, any of them, and not the Constitution of the US, nor the separation clause. And that is what has happened to the Democratic party now. Now we have Jesse Jackson the spokesperson for the Democratic party because none of the others will even show up or say yea or nay, and that is real good strategy, very clever and brilliant acciording to the arm chair political strategists.

I guess.

[Tomee450]

39. Martin Luther King

said certain laws are immoral and should be broken. Segregation laws were unlawful and immoral and King and thousands of blacks broke those laws. Just because a law is on the books, does not make it moral. The drug laws are good examples of that. King was willing to fight laws he thought wrong and was willing to take the consequences. Jackson is a minister, a black one at that. I doubt if you will find too many black Baptist ministers who disagree with Jackson's position.

[Tinoire]

40. Nice post. Half of the Congress Black Caucus voted for the bill

because they feel the same way.

I happen to agree with Jackson as do many of the strongest, staunchly antiwar, pro-justice, most Progressvie, people/posters I know.

What saddens me though is not that people disagree but that they prefer to vilify rather than to try to understand.

When you have both Jesse Jackson Junior and Harold Ford Jr on the same sheet of music - it's time for Democrats to think.

When you have both Jesse Jackson Senior and Joe Lieberman on the same sheet of music - it's time for Democrats to think.

When you have both the Pope and Rabbi Marc Gellman on the same sheet of music - it's time for Democrats to think.

When you have anti-Bush Progressives and pro-Bush people on the same sheet of music - it's time for Democrats to think.

When you have Nader and Jeb Bush and Al Gore's lead counsel on the same sheet of music - it's time for Democrats to think.


But hey... why think? It's so much easier to bleet and be brilliantly manouvered into a little box where we can alienate entire blocks at the same time.

I only wonder at which end we're going to start burning first :shrug:

[FreedomAngel82]

44. Who cares?!

It's not your decision!!! BUTT OUT!

[Tinoire]

47. That would actually be - who cares what you think in a 1:1 post not

addressed to you where you seem to have a serious handicap following the flow of the conversation and answering in sort.

So... to quote you "Who cares?! It's not your decision!!! BUTT OUT!

Lol, a world where only your opinion would matter... shudder. :scared:


On edit: If you don't care what people think, say and do, WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU DOING ON A DISCUSSION BOARD OR IN THIS THREAD :shrug:

[ElectroPrincess]

82. Consider this ...

Isn't it too bad that, even with the feeding tube intact, Terri Schiavo is a bundle of reflexes - Terri's not able to think either. She feels NOTHING - she is without thought: Cerebrally brain dead.

But hey, the Schlinder's love the attention and want to take care of what THEY KNOW in essence as a "little doll" vice what was her daughter.

Considering their domineering manner and need to CONTROL seemingly everything, it's easy for them and the ATTENTION is "all about them" not Terri.

Terri Schiavo deserved more compassionate parents who respected her right to die with dignity vice live as a "vegetable."

Would ANY of you want to live in this cerebral brain-dead state yourself? She has NO thoughts or feelings = PVS.

[tritsofme]

32. Jackson is a publicity whore

Anything to get his name in the news.

I don't see why anyone is surprised...

[oasis]

63. News flash. He can't do much unless he maintains a public profile.

But then, you knew that.:think:

[BlueManDude]

34. the prospect of a night sans pancake makeup was too much for him to take

[tinanator]

35. then you must have really enjoyed GW's first act in office

the (character) assassination of Jesse Jackson.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. He Could Have Hired The Poster Directly Above You

-:)

[Dave Reynolds]

37. He, like so many others,

has an opinion. We may think it wrong, but he is entitled to it. He just gets "news" time with it.

[FreedomAngel82]

45. And that is all it is

His opinion. He doesn't get to say what happens to Mrs. Schavio. Only her husband. Other people need to go home and get their own life.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. You Have Said The Same Thing Fiffy Times (sic) In This Thread...

Do you really think it's a judicious use of the administrator's bandwidth?

[jojo54]

46. Watching the a__hole Joe Scarborough

They said a few minutes ago, Mr. Schindler rushed past the protestors to go into the hospital.

Maybe Jesse's push will be too late?

[kohodog]

48. apparently someone slipped him the KoolAid. n/t

[NEDem]

50. I hope you're being sarcastic.

[KaliTracy]

51. He's entitled to his opinion and his faith -- and I believe

he is sincere in his feelings, yet I find it interesting that no one has of yet mentioned this Quote:

"In his statement, Jackson added, "a consistent moral and ethical position would extend a feeding tube to all who are confronted with starvation -- to demand public, government policy to feed the hungry."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/29/schiavo/index.html

[KaliTracy]

62. what about this quote..I've not seen it mentioned yet. "a consistent moral

...

"In his statement, Jackson added, "a consistent moral and ethical position would extend a feeding tube to all who are confronted with starvation -- to demand public, government policy to feed the hungry."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/29/schiavo/index.html

As I say in post #51 -- he's entitled to his opinion. But I did find the above quote interesting.

[ngGale]

65. Very interesting quote...

n/t

[noiretextatique]

73. that's because their knees are too busy jerking

as some do whenever names, e.g., sharpton and jackson and mckinney are mentioned...unless of course they are putting their asses on the line against the bush regime, in the pre-approved manner, of course.

[KaliTracy]

84. I'm guessing this was in response to a different post? n/t

[noiretextatique]

91. it was i support of your post

which, i'm guessing, was an attempt to show jackson as more than a charicature, as other people in this thread did. the quote you posted shows that his position is consistent with his view of morality, unlike the amoral ones.

[KaliTracy]

104. OK -- I guess I misread it. Something about his position makes me

wonder if he might make statements about the 6 month old recently taken off life-support against his mother's wishes in Texas... like if this one person should be prolonged, others should too. I don't know a lot about the boy named Sun, but I'm assuming, that beyond his physical limitations (inadequate lungs), that his brain was not developing as a normal baby's would (if anyone knows different, feel free to correct this)

I doubt Jackson is thinking about bringing other cases in, yet the statement about feeding those that are starving does have some of these undertones to it.

[Morning Dew]

66. Jesse just wants to participate -

He'd do ribbon cuttings and children's birthday parties if he thought he'd get some air time.

[ZootSuitGringo]

71. I'm cutting Jesse some slack on this one

Keeping my outrage for the real politicians who let this get through in the first place.

Jesse Jackson is a baptist minister, and he is being consistent. He is against the death penalty, against needless wars, and obviously against the fact that this person's tube was removed. In fact, if JJ was trying to grab some limelight, he wouldn't be on the side that's polling so poorly.

I don't think this ended up being a partisan issue, as the Republicans wanted it to be. I'm starting to think that Jesse Jackson will make the issue even less partisan. Politically speaking, That's probably best for us Democrats. Maybe it's better that someone not holding elected office clearly demonstrates that this is not a partisan or a political issue. Jesse Jackson has a right to his opinion, and maybe because he's not beholden to anyone he can freely stand up for what HE THINKS is right.

Maybe it's not all about politics and limelight for JJ. Maybe he actually believes that this is not the way to go. Funny how our best, strongest and mostconsistent allies are always the harshest judged by us "liberals".

I wouldn't put my finger in Jesse's eye just yet.

[Carolab]

74. Jesse is turning the spotlight back on the whole "culture of life" debate.

Making people look at where the Repubs REALLY stand.

[saracat]

83. Uhhh, Jesse was photographed standing right next to Randall Terry

and being supportive of him. That is just sickening. This is one step away from his being publicly anti choice!

[AntiCoup2K4]

94. That is disgusting!

I hope Jesse at least told Randall Terrorist not to be such a hateful hypocrite to his own children. :puke:

[Nikki Stone 1]

103. Maybe the civil rights movement doesn't need the women's movement anymore

The alliance is an old one, women being some of the most outspoken and active abolitionists and, later, some of the most outspoken and involved supporters of civil rights.

Maybe this is a sign that the civil rights community feels powerful enough that they don't need the numbers provided by the support of women.

[katinmn]

88. Where they stand is a good question

Against extending health benefits for the disabled
Cutting Medicaid
Inconsistency on who gets unplugged (if you're poor and a minority they'll unplug you, if you're white and middle class, they'll keep you alive no matter what)
Making it tougher to declare bankruptcy even though a majority are brought about because of huge medical bills
Waging war on Iraq where 50% of the population are children
etc.

Just where does the right stand on life?

[KaliTracy]

85. I think he believes in what he's there for, but also is trying to "push"

the culture of life issue...

In his statement, Jackson added, "a consistent moral and ethical position would extend a feeding tube to all who are confronted with starvation -- to demand public, government policy to feed the hungry."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/29/schiavo/index.html

As I say in post #51 -- he's entitled to his opinion. But I did find the above quote interesting.

[salin]

89. My question is this:

reportedly the parents invited Jesse Jackson.

Why?

Who advised this?

It clearly is political. The point is to get votes in the Florida state house changed. So go after a perceived vulnerable bloc - folks representing socially conservative, religious african american voters - as the rr attempted to do throughout the last election cycle with the gay marriage issue (didn't they get a child of either MLKJr or Malcom X to march in Ga against Gay Marriage)? So get a highly visible person - who is known for trying to negotiate compromises based on religious/spiritual appeals - to try to do the political work on this.

Look, I don't agree with the Shindlers - but I do think they are sincere in their desperation to do anything to - in their eyes - save their daughter. So I don't blame them. However, I think that while they use others to try to get their desired outcome - they are also being used (and allowing their daughter to be used in the most shameful way in terms of lack of her privacy). So who pulled the strings on this one - and was it just a desperate political act...

Or an attempt at something else in the bigger political picture surrounding this situation in which the center of the storm is much bigger than Schiavo?

[Nikki Stone 1]

106. Excellent question

I'd also like to know:

" So who pulled the strings on this one - and was it just a desperate political act...

Or an attempt at something else in the bigger political picture surrounding this situation in which the center of the storm is much bigger than Schiavo?"

[formernaderite]

101. nothing...he just suffers from being rather religious

...and don't get me started on the hypocrisy of his lifestyle..ahem.

[cquik18]

110. You know the old saying....

..anything there's a camera, there's Jesse! LOL! He's making a mistake intervening in this...luckily, the neocons still can't make this one stick to the left. This is THEIR baby! HAW HAW HAW!

[Tomee450]

122. Just more

right wing talking points. Seems we have a lot of people sounding exactly like the people,right wingers, they claim to despise. What intolerance.

[cquik18]

129. Whatever, dude.

For such an "intolerant" forum, YOUR post was tolerated, wasn't it?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

119. deleted