Joe Lieberman won that debate going away

[WilliamPitt]

I disgree with virtually everything he said and stands for - and especially loved that crap about Democrats not respecting people of faith, and his "standing up to special interests" while allowing the Enron scandal to wither because he was the Democratic king of Enron cash - but his answers were the snappiest and the sharpest. He did the best with the time limits, and presented himself as the guy whose ideas (I fear) a lot of Fox-watching Americans will identify with. He was also, surprisingly, funny.

Clark said "I don't know about that" on two separate occasions. Not good. He also said he agreed with the President on "Attacking the Taliban in Iraq." Oy vey. Don't get me wrong. A lot of his answers were strong and solid, but that's what I came away with, and I dig Clark a lot.

Kerry had high points and low points, as did Dean. Kerry did great on the medals question, Dean rocked on the Iraq qiestion. Sharpton had great answers, but ruined himself on that mangled Fed chair answer. Edwards did very well across the board. When he slapped Hume around on the 35 million Americans in poverty redirection, I think I wet myself.

Dennis Kucinich is still God, and any of those men would make an excellent President.

[killbotfactory]

1. And all my posts about the impending Liebermania were mocked

and locked!

Bah!

[trumad]

6. Holy crap... A Lieberman supporter Sighting ..

[killbotfactory]

9. Nah..

More like a Faux-Lieberman supporter...

A devil's advocate, if you will...

[THUNDER HANDS]

10. lol

You are kinda right though. In a positive environment, Lieberman can really shine. When he goes negative he's so skeevy. But when he gets a chance to schmooze, he's as good as anyone, even Edwards.

[SadEagle]

23. He can manage a nice "cool grandpa" showing on many occassions.

If he wasn't so darn annoying on the war and the whole morality thing....

[PopSixSquish]

29. I Disagree with Lieberman on Many Things..

but I have always respected the man because he sticks to his principles. And he's cracked me up a couple of times. Dry sense of humor. I like that. In fact, I like all our candidates.

Sorry that I missed seeing Edwards smack Britt Hume down. Hit 'em again John!

[Cassandra]

40. He had some good points about values but,

I hate that he won't stand up for other Democrats. Talking to Hannity :puke: after the debate, Hannity was saying smarmy things about Dems and Joe just lets it slide. AAAAAARGGGHHHHHHH!

[TLM]

59. See that's what happens when you try to stop the Joe-mentum.

[trumad]

2. Agreed

It don't matter though cause he's still gonna get 5 percent in NH.

[aldian159]

20. But so is DK, and lots of people here love him.

Assuming Joe weren't competing for Bush's VP job, he would probably not be too bad.

[Democrats unite]

3. I thought the debate was Great

I want to to tip my hat to all the candidates & I pretty much agree with everything you said Will.

[RichV]

7. Eh, mediocre at best to me. Hume sucked. A lot.

[cthrumatrix]

4. wrong...and here's the reason why....look at the "issues" people vote

with: economy, healthcare/medicare and education.

Joe will be remembered for Iraq only...this is a 4th place issue.

[Jerseycoa]

5. Lieberman was the only one

who was relaxed and easy. The rest looked exhausted and stressed, even pretty Johnnie.

[dolstein]

15. Well, there's something to be said for observing the Sabbath

The other candidates are working 24/7, which can wear out even the most hardy of candidates. Lieberman's only working 24/6.

[Jerseycoa]

22. Good point nt

[eridani]

58. And not showing up to vote too often

And not doing Iowa.

[Mika]

8. Going away? Where's Joe going?

:shrug:

Snappiest and the sharpest?

[Kahuna]

11. Duh? It was set up for him to win..

You kiddin' me? Clark's I don't know about that was not in response to any question of substance. That was his response to, "I don['t agree with that premise.." That's what that meant.

[robsul82]

12. I think Dean clearly won this one.

HR after HR...a fantastic performance. Lieberman, though, you're right Pitt...that scared me.

Later.

RJ

[Jerseycoa]

24. It was such a moronic debate it's hard to tell

I wouldn't say Dean won, although he brought off a respectable recovery. He gets a lot of credit for pulling it off.:thumbsup:

[Zynx]

28. We won't see the recovery in the polls until about Sunday.

This is because they lag a day and use rolling averages, but he will win an upset.

[dennis4868]

13. I agree...

it's hard to admit it but he won...alot of it has to do with the questions they are asked....I dont believe any of the questions thrown at Holy Joe were a challenge for him as they were for Clark and others.

[Khephra]

14. Lieberman was relaxed because he was with his crowd

Faux.

[KittyWampus]

25. Listen To Kephra

He speaks the Truth

[frank frankly]

44. oh to hear such wisdom and marilyn, too

Dear Joe,

"Your world is an ashtray
You squirm and coil like cigarettes
The more you cry your ashes turn to mud."

[Terwilliger]

16. see? I love this "Dennis Kucinich is still god" stuff...god of lost causes

He was the most honest, most forthright, most realistic on issues (IMO), and the most courageous...he's going to lose....politics is not about truth and courage

[Jerseycoa]

26. I loved him

when he said how he and Edwards had agreed on one thing, they needed delegates. That was great. :7

[BootinUp]

17. Clark handled a number of attacks

and he did fine. One error basically is all you got there. He refused to call Chimpy a deserter. thats called Class.

[NNN0LHI]

18. Yea he did n/t

[AP]

19. Why is anyone still surprised by how funny L. is? He's funny.

He's been funny in every debate -- except when he made that Arnold joke and flexed his biceps.

[kentuck]

I thought Kucinich won some points with his graphs about jobs lost

but he may have lost some points with the question about his deal with Edwards in Iowa. I don't think Clark did very well in this debate format...I think he does better in a town hall type forum. I think Kerry handled the question about his "medals" OK, but he didn't hit any homeruns. Joe Lieberman probably came out a little ahead with the conservative Democrats in NH, but did not score a lot of points with liberal Democrats. Edwards came out OK...maybe won a few points with his response about guns. Al Sharpton did not get in any zingers except to say that if he had gotten the 18 % that Dean got in Iowa, he would still be hollering....

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[Walt Starr]

27. I think Edwards won it

followed extremely closely by Kerry. I think the Democratic voters of New Hampshire will see things very closely to that as well. Possibily reversed, but those two did the best as far as core constiuencies in the New Hampshire Democratic Party will see it.

At least from where I sit.

I placed Clark dead last. Lieberman did very well, but his positions will turn off many of those who will vote next Tuesday.

I don't believe Dean did well enough to pump up his campaign substantially.

We'll see Tuesday, though.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leyton]

31. I agree.

Lieberman did incredibly well. Kerry did decent, I guess, but not stellar. Edwards was a disappointment, to me. He completely botched the question on the marriage amendment; his point was that we have bigger problems, but it was Sharpton who eloquently stated it.

[snyttri]

32. Lieberman might have a future as the house liberal on his own FOX show

[Benhurst]

33. Lieberman went away? Good! It's about time. n/t

[windansea]

34. good spin job Will

praise the 2 guys you are least afraid of

in terms of degree of dificulty of the questions

Clark wins...they were throwing underhand to Kerry and Edwards

[Kahuna]

37. Underhand to Kerry and Edwards, and blew kisses to Lieberman..

:hi:

[WilliamPitt]

45. Yeah, I'm awfully clever

:eyes:

[windansea]

48. no..just totally obvious

:)

[Forkboy]

52. I'm almost embarrassed for you

...almost.

[HuckleB]

35. I'm not sure it matters.

As for Clark, a lot of Dems agreed with the action in Afghanistan, while disagreeing with the war in Iraq. Many have problems regarding the goofy way the administration went about things in Afghanistan, and everyone has problems about the way the administration has let the country rot. Nonetheless... I don't think that such a statement hurts Clark.

[Bucky]

36. What's "surprising" about Lieberman having a sense of humor? He's witty

You can be not-liberal and still have a good sense of humor. Look at Letterman. Look at the South Park guys. Lieberman's always had a sharp, insightful, ready wit. I don't like his politics, but he usually handles himself quite well in spontaneous forums.

[Ramsey]

38. What are you smoking Will??

Lieberman's answers were strong because they were totally canned. There is not a bone of sincerity in the guy's body. The Republicans can't criticize me....that's because you ARE one Joe!!

I thought Kucinich gave the best answers consistently. But the highlight of the debate was probably John Edwards calling the press morons out for not asking a single question about substantive issues. In his usual polite way of course. :-)

Clark was surprisingly lackluster. Kerry held his own, but I simply cannot get past his explanation for his IWR vote. Dean did OK by bypassing criticism of him and moving onto issues. Shapton...whatever, I totally tune him out, he gives the worst answers. Sheesh, apparently he has no idea what the Federal Reserve does.

[maggrwaggr]

39. I thought your guy Kerry did really well

and also thought Edwards did a marvelous job with the whole "this is not about gay marriage" thing.

Kerry impressed me tonight, and he hasn't in the past.

Lieberman? Hell, my own prejudices against the guy prevent me from saying anything good about him. He seemed comfortable and confident is about all I'll say.

[frank frankly]

41. I saw it that way too, and honestly can you believe the medals question?

i mean that, will, did it stun you?

[WilliamPitt]

46. I think they were looking to trip him

and he jacked it up their asses. Good omen for the general election if he makes it.

[frank frankly]

51. it was a good omen

my friends and i and the students were watching and one commented that Kerry drops the hammer last (in a statement or debate).

the hammer may need to drop immediately sometimes.

question the question and then destroy it and take back the debate

he did exceptional in a revolting environment

they all did well. dean crushed. dk crushed. edwards crushed. clark crushed. joe...well, i agree with you analysis, but the sooner he is gone the better. he reinforces the stereotypes we must un-invert.

[maggrwaggr]

57. He shoved it HARD back up their asses!

In retrospect, they gave him an opportunity to shine.

He was GREAT with that response.

[bigtree]

42. Sen. Lieberman exposed his Bush-like position on the war.

He went past the rational that the IWR was an instrument to push Bush back to the U.N. and revealed his zeal to punish Saddam, at any cost, without regard to the means. This is the same zealotry that Bush displayed in his mad rush to war. He got some applause in New Hampshire, where there are supposedly more independents and moderates who cotton to that kind of foreign ass-kicking rhetoric.

But I think that John Kerry had an interesting message for New Hampshire. He looked into the camera and he said that he couldn't explain it all in 60 seconds, but in the coming days the people of New Hampshire would know where he stood.

After his campaign in Iowa, I believe him.

[quaker bill]

43. Tonight we agree Mr. Pitt.

I loved Edwards slapping Hume, it was a 'precious moment'.

I liked that Dean took himself with a sense of humor and ducked a couple of clear invitations to smack the other candidates around.

Lieberman did great. I do disagree with him on most points, but agree that he had the strongest values message.

All of the candidates need to get going on the values front. The Rightwinger's have had a rhetorical corner on the values market for a long time, while the left actually has the practical moral high ground. We can and need to reclaim that end of the debate as well.

[askew]

47. I'd give Lieberman a close 2nd in tonight's debate to Dean.

Of course, I am just a little bit biased. Dean hit a couple of home runs with the Iraq question and with the red state question. Lieberman also had some great answers, but a couple of them were really scripted. After that, I have to give credit to Clark for just surviving tonight's attack. And Kerry did give the one good answer on the medals, but that was it.

[mmonk]

49. Was he standing in

for the repubs?

[Paragon]

50. I'm switching my support to Lieberman.

Wait, no I'm not.

[Forkboy]

53. If Joe won...

...I'm glad I missed it.

[sandnsea]

54. No he really didn't

He was very strong on his opinions and very articulate. But his opinions really and truly leave Democrats with "why vote for you, may as well vote for Bush."

Abortion. Most swing voters believe abortion isn't going away and don't worry about it.

Gay rights. Most swing voters just don't care one way or the other.

The environment. Plenty of swing voters thing environmental regulations are hurting business.

Guns. This goes both ways and Bush said he supports the assault weapons ban anyway, if I'm not mistaken.

He really is a case of may as well stay with Bush for anybody who doesn't believe the Republicans are that dangerous.

That's why I think he lost the debate among Democrats and that's who is voting Tuesday, for the most part.

[goodhue]

55. I'm afraid your right

And I hope DK to beats Lieberman in NH.

[kodi]

56. he did not. you are influenced by the crowd's reaction.

the crowd was the least "democratic" audience i have seen in all the, what is it now, 127 debates?

looking at the crowd's reaction to standard democratic policy statments that usually are crowd pleasers and result in standing ovatins, one could see hardly half the crowd applauding. the crowd was clearly not one which was supportive of democratic party ideas.

as pointed out by edwards in his remarks on the way the debate was enjoined, the intent of the moderators was to attack the individual men on stage, not contend with the efficacy of their proposed policies.

this debate was a right wing smear attempt, not a debate on issues at all........

but it is exactly the form of debate the eventual nominee will face when meeting bush this fall and should serve as a warning as to how the media will accomodate bush and his gang of thieves throughout the 2004 campaign.

[WilliamPitt]

60. Least Democratic?

The same crowd that whooped and stomped every time Kucinich opened his mouth? The same one that whooped and stomped any time any of them attacked the war?

I wasn't watching the crowd. I was watching the candidates.

[Skwmom]

61. Did you look at the questions asked of Lieberman? e/o/m

[LoneStarLiberal]

62. I Had A Similar Thought

I found myself thinking the same thing when the debate was over. Lieberman, ironically in the final debate before the delegate-selecting primary season begins, finally showed some humor and charm in a debate instead of his usual churlish persona.

Oy vey, do I ever know! That "Taliban in Iraq" comment made my skin crawl!

I thought Dean looked and sounded better than he has in a month. Back to the basics of the message.

Edwards had a brilliant final answer but give his DOMA answer I think that his debate experience was a wash.

Kerry looked and sounded great.

In all, it looks like this debate ought to heat the final few days of New Hampshire up to a frothing boil

[Monument]

63. Ratings out of 4 stars: JK, HD, JL ***; JE **1/2; AS **; WC*1/2

I thought that Kerry, Dean, Liberman and Edwards all had very good debates last night. I don't think that anybody won the debate, although I would say that Clark definitely fared the worst. I gave ratings out of 4 stars based on a mix of performance and the impact that the debate will have on thier run.

*** KERRY: I thought Kerry had "gravitas" (whatever that means) and I thought he heated up after a first few dud answers. I think he was very impressive and seemed and sounded very experienced and presidential.

*** DEAN: Dean did very well and I have always been attracted to his style of speaking. I think that the debate will help him overcome the "scream" issue but I fear it's too little too late. He came across as very matter-of-fact and he clearly seems a "separate choice" from the JK, DE, WCs of the world.

*** LIBERMAN: Liberman was a jokester and did very well in the debate. I am so pleased that Liberman always stands up for his beliefs and has not wavered one bit. He seemed very rock solid last night.

**1/2 EDWARDS: Edwards is a smooth talker but I think that by constantly saying that he was unfamiliar with the DOM act, he was highlighting his "inexperience" which is exactly what people think of when they see his picture in the paper (looks like he's 35 so people automatically think that he's inexperienced.)

** SHARPTON: Always fun to watch but I think this was not his best showing. I expected Sharpton to scream "Fire" and run out of the room when they asked him his opinion on fiscal policy and the fed. Clearly highlighting his inexperience. Sharpton seemed like a one trick pony last night and seemed unimpressive. I also didn't like his poke at Dean, but that's what makes him so fun to watch.

*1/2 CLARK: Clark got hammered and while his *performance* may have been "ok" I fear this debate will damage him in the polls in NH. If you're looking to cast a vote for a military man, Kerry clearly would have been the choice out of the two after watching the debate last night.