Are disabled people really feel threaten by the Terri Schiavo outcome?

[question everything]

Or is Taranto just blowing hot wind from the end of his alimentary canal?

I would think that people in wheelchairs or who are confined to bed and to oxygen tank, but who clearly show mental activity recognize that there is a difference between then and between someone who, for 15 years, was in a persisting vegetative state. And, of course, appoiting a guardian for health care decisions should take care of their wishes.


======

Who Will Remember Terri?

By JAMES TARANTO
April 1, 2005; Page A10

(snip)

• Mary Johnson, left-leaning editor of Ragged Edge magazine: "There isn't a single disability rights activist I've heard from . . . who isn't afraid that this will make liberals hate them even more than they now do."

• Joe Ford, a Harvard undergraduate with severe cerebral palsy: "Like many others with disabilities, I believe that the American public, to one degree or another, holds that disabled people are better off dead. To put it in a simpler way, many Americans are bigots. A close examination of the facts of the Schiavo case reveals not a case of difficult decisions but a basic test of this country's decency."

• Eleanor Smith, a self-described liberal agnostic lesbian, whose childhood bout with polio left her confined to a wheelchair: "At this point I would rather have a right-wing Christian decide my fate than an ACLU member." Ms. Smith protested last week outside the hospice where Mrs. Schiavo lay dehydrating and starving.


Surveys of disabled Americans suggest a strong GOP tilt. According to the National Organization on Disability, Al Gore outpolled George W. Bush among disabled Americans, 56% to 38%, but four years later Mr. Bush beat John Kerry, 52.5% to 46% -- a 24.5-point shift. As late as August, Mr. Kerry had a 10-point lead, which vanished by September, coinciding with the Florida Supreme Court's striking down "Terri's law."

(snip)

Mr. Taranto is editor of OpinionJournal.com

URL for this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB111232101450295140,00.html

[Deep13]

1. No

Shiavo was not diabled, she was dead for all practical purposes. Further, the court was carrying out her wishes.

[rodeodance]

2. I really do not understand how/when 'disability'-referes to end-stage

dying precess. It must be relatively recent 'form' of inclusion into this group-as far as I know. Any information on this would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance

[Deep13]

14. a lot of people are disabled...

...to varying degrees. This has absolutely nothing to do with Schiavo type situations. The real questions have nothing to do with disability, but how we define death and when someone has a right to refuse treatment. Every patient has a right to refuse treatment. The courts decided that her wishes were to withdraw treatment.

In a situtation where the patient in is a persistant vegetative state, the brain has been damaged to such a degree that any awareness or sense of personality is simply gone. All that remains are basic involuntary functions like breathing, heart beat and respiration. Still, had the evidence shown that she wanted to continue to exist that way, the courts would have enforced that wish. The best ways to communicate your wishes under those circumstances is through a so-called living will (instructions) or by clearly appointing someone to speak for you (delegation of power). Both procedures have specific statutory requirements under state law that must be followed.

So two things are necessary to deny hydration: a patient with a severe brain injury who will never recover and who has no self-awareness AND clear evidence of that patient's desire to discontinue hydration.

People who are immobilized, struck mute, retarded, autistic, crippled by MS or ALS, in an altered mental state from pain-killers or whatever do not count as candidates for withdrawing artificial life support or hydration. Even if one of these folks is in a coma with a living will that says pull-the-plug, the docs will only do so if there is no chance of recovery (which is rarely the case without a severe brain injury.)

[JDPriestly]

18. Yes. The main issue was what did she want.

I don't think a person generally would discuss whether they wanted to live in such a condition with their parents. They would more likely discuss that with friends or their husband.

The religious right is wrong to blame liberal judges. It isn't a matter of liberal or conservative. They would have eventually gotten the same ruling from just about any judge. Courts just can't decide theological issues.

[Warpy]

3. As someone who is facing increasing disability

I feel much more threatened by the "life at any cost" crowd than I do by the courts that allowed Schiavo's tube to be removed so nature could take its course and release her from a hellish existence.

[charlyvi]

4. This is bullshit.

First, liberals don't hate disabled people or wish them dead; the Americans with Disabilities Act is a mostly liberal sponsored piece of legislation. Conservatives didn't want it.

Second, the WSJ op-ed page is NOTORIOUSLY, RADICALLY right wing. They will say anything or manipulate any information to make progressives look like fanatical baby killers. They make black into white to advance their far right agenda.

Third, "surveys" of disabled people? What surveys? Who paid for the surveys?

I am deeply suspicious of anything coming off the WSJ's op-ed page, as should be any critically thinking adult.

[barb162]

8. The WSJ is notoriously RW; has been for yrs.

[question everything]

9. That's true, but are the quotes real

and is the voting trend correct?

[barb162]

12. here's the Ford opinion I read in the Harvard Crimson

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=506716

I don't know about the other people mentioned by the original poster.

I heard on the radio yesterday that 1000 disability groups have come out against the feeding tube removal. And it is my favorite 24 hour a day news only station, not a Rush L. or a fundie station. Well, okay, how do I know if it is 1000 groups? DO I just take that as a FACT? I didn't /don't even know if there are a 1000 disability groups!

[question everything]

25. Thanks. I guess as with every issue there are some on both sides

and the RWers like Taranto take advantage of this.

Still would be interesting about the voting trend

[rodeodance]

31. there are many local (city/county) Chapters that probably count as 'groups

just a guess.

[LiberalFighter]

40. What are those 1000 groups?

[barb162]

48. I don't know and it was one of those 10 second or so news blips

[LiberalFighter]

39. WSJ can print anything they want and they can find the people...

that will say what they want.

[Nikki Stone 1]

45. The first quote IS real. The article was on truthout.org this week

It was also posted here.

[barb162]

58. Congress Ready to Again Debate End-of-Life Issues

this was from the NY Times 3/28/05
-----------------------

Congress Ready to Again Debate End-of-Life Issues
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG

Published: March 28, 2005


WASHINGTON, March 27 - After a string of fruitless legal and legislative efforts, the central question in the Terri Schiavo case - Who makes end-of-life decisions when the patient's wishes are disputed? - is headed back to Capitol Hill, where debate over broader legislation has already begun.

snip

The Republican-controlled House already passed a bill that would allow the federal courts to review cases like Ms. Schiavo's, in which the patient has left no written instructions, the family is at odds and state courts have ordered a feeding tube to be withdrawn. That bill evolved into one that was narrowly tailored to Ms. Schiavo.

Now some Democrats, prodded by advocates for the disabled, say Congress should consider whether such a law is needed.

"I think we should look into this and very possibly legislate it," said Representative Barney Frank, Democrat of Massachusetts, who opposed Congressional action in the Schiavo case. Mr. Frank was speaking on Sunday on the ABC News program "This Week With George Stephanopoulos." Mr. Frank added: "I think Congress needs to do more. Because I've spoken with a lot of disability groups who are concerned that, even where a choice is made to terminate life, it might be coerced by circumstances."
snip
-----------------

NOTE Barney Frank's last comment here: "Because I've spoken with a lot of disability groups who are concerned that...."

[China_cat]

5. I can't walk 20 feet

Can't go out without my chair or scooter and I'm definitely a leftist, radical, union supporting WalMart despiser who thinks equating the brain dead with disability is the height of dishonesty.

And frankly, I would like to see the pictures of when they open her skull and the brain pours out like unset jello.

[barb162]

11. your last sentence....I thought of that too...I was wondering about

that.

[liberal43110]

66. Thank you

I have heard only crazy nonsense from "disabled" people regarding the Schiavo case.

[barb162]

6. yes, I believe so. I read Ford's comments in the "Harvard Crimson"

a few days back. I can only read what the disabled are writing and saying and from what I am seeing (which easily can be skewed as much as the next person) I think they are not exactly happy with the Dem "position" or "silence" on the matter. A few days back I started a thread on some disability groups' (NotDeadYet, etal) comments...several were protesting the Schiavo removal of the feeding tube in front of the hospice. Just my two cents.

[Child_Of_Isis]

7. Surveys of disabled Americans suggest a strong GOP tilt...

The GOP would take these folk's disability check in a heartbeat!!!!!!!

[rodeodance]

33. you got it

[barb162]

10. I wanted to add I haven't seen any disability group agree with the

removal of the feeding tube; I have just seen them come out officially making statements against it.

[genius]

13. The reaction to Shiavo gives people cause for concern about our party.

It showed the ultimate intolerance to people with medical conditions. Only Jackson and Nader showed a sense of humanity.

[barb162]

20. A few weeks back I stated on a few threads this Schiavo matter

will come back to haunt the Democrats negatively. Immediately all I read was I was a RW fundie, a freeptard or an idiot falling for RW talking points. We shall see. The fallout on this is just starting I think and it won't crystallize for months. What you say about Jackson and Nader...I agree and did you notice how many DUers immediately attacked them with both barrels. (I kept thinking if the freepers were checking DU at that time and seeing some of the attacks on Jakson and Nader, they go back to their buddies, their neighbors, etc., and say the Democrats are attacking the only Democrat "leaders" who are showing compassion for this woman.) I think there will be repurcussions and it will be interesting how this plays out politically and socially in a few months to a few years. But I still think my original postings that this will hurt the Dems long run is gonna happen. I hope I am wrong

[genius]

22. I think you are correct on this one.

I can't believe how extremely cold some of the postings are. I've been a Democrat all my life and I've always considered the Democratic Party to be the party of compassion. I've never seen so much callousness as has been shown at DU in the Shiavo threads.

[Mass]

23. I agree too

[queenjane]

26. Callousness in general, of late

I'm very new here, but have been reading the DU postings since the beginning of last year. I felt a sense of community and caring. But now the atmosphere here is growing toxic. There's continuous bashing of Southerners, of people of faith, of those who are horrified that baby seals are being bashed in the head and skinned alive. Sometimes, I think the DU web address has been usurped and linked to an extreme right wing website.

[barb162]

29. I've been seeing the same. I looked at the baby seal clubbing

threads and also a thread on pigs being used for some taser experiments and I was shocked by some of the posts almost laughing at the cruelty to innocent animals. There have already been a lot of people joking around about the Pope dying, about Jerry Falwell getting sick. Now am I some fan of Falwell? Hell no. Did the Pope stand up to Bush on the Iraq war? Yes. Is the Pope for peace? Yes. Do I agree with the Pope on everything. Hell no. But people are getting bashed for being religious too and I don't get that AT ALL, even though I don't consider myself religious.

what is going on here lately. I JUST DON'T GET IT.

[genius]

41. Most Democrats I know are environmentalists who want to protect all life.

I can't help but wonder if the DU has been infiltrated by people trying to make our party look like a bunch of sadists.

[barb162]

50. that's a very good point.

I just keep thinking if the Republicans are checking some of these threads / printing them and passing them around to neighbors, and those neighbors pass them around to other neighbors, the independents, moderates,and anyone who could have been turned to vote Democratic will be shaking their heads.

[Debs]

68. Maybe it has been infiltrated

Those demanding Terri be kept alive against her earlier stated wishes in a living ghoulish hell seem like sadists to me

[question everything]

60. The way to do is not to read all of these posts

and if any really bothers you, complain to the moderators.

People hide behind the anonymity of the Internet to say things that they would not say in public.

And, of course, during the last several decades our society shifted from following some kind of manners to "anything goes." I can tolerate more cruel posts here applauding the death of people, than the way people drive in the roads - especially if they drive expensive "muscle" cars; then people who go on talk show to talk about the most intimate parts of their lives, even to expose the most intimate parts of their lives.

Unfortunately we celebrate the "in your face" behavior of too many people, and this is in both liberal and Conservative circles.

I am more offended by DeLay saying that he was going to take measures against judges in the Terri Schiavo case, than I am about stupid posts here. I would often just read the first few posts in a thread and when I see that they deteriorate into juvenile mud slinging, I just move on. There are too many thoughtful, well though posts here for me to waste my time on idiotic posts. And I hope that you can do the same.

And, welcome to DU. I hope that you can find the right balance for you.

[barb162]

27. I know, I know. I have been a Dem all my life too

and I'm an ol' bag. There's been a lot of disturbing stuff here.

[lynne]

44. Thank you -

- for posting what I've been thinking for days.

[Debs]

67. How in the world

Is it callous to allow her wishes to be carried out? How in the world isnt it reasonable for me to believe that those were her wishes after 25 courts ajudicating this very issue made a finding of fact that it was? Isnt it more callous to force her continued existance in a state I would consider HELL itself against her earlier wishes? I dont see it that way at all. I dont see how anyone who has spent so much of his life with the left could impugn our motives like this at all. If you kept me in that condition it would most certainly be against my will and if it were possible I would haunt your dreams for the rest of your life for doing it. Since I beleive and polls show that most people would not want to be kept alive in her condition, I dont understand why they would turn against those supporting allowing Terris wishes to be honored. I dont get your point at all

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

24. "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." Napoleon

Who knows how this will eventually play out, but, as of now, the Federal intervention into a family matter under state jurisdiction has helped to illuminate the unholy alliance of the Rapturist Right zealots and the traditional Rockefeller Republicans.

The Democrats, IMHO, were wise to keep low in what should have been a private family matter guided by existing Florida law.

[barb162]

38. The Hammer/ the Exterminator / Enforcer Delay was

so totally astounding in that speech he gave in Congress. All of a sudden The Hammer was concerned about a woman in a hospice in Florida. His was a real display.

[question everything]

59. Unfortunately, this has been the case of strange bedfellows... etc.

I think that most felt bad for the whole saga.

But it was the Republicans who politicized the issue and have been criticized by many of their own people.

Just as with abortion and gay marriage they succeeded to take a very emotional issue, and turned it into a black and white "moral values" debate that put the Democrats in a defensive position.

I know that many of us here wanted, still do, for the Democratic leaders to take a stand, to say something. All they need to do is read some of what loyal Republicans have been saying, their letters to local newspapers that we all have seen.

I know that my letter - which was not published - was more about Congress taking over personal and private matter, as if there are no other important issues to handle. But, of course, the demagogues that they are, they managed to divert the debate from the real "culture of life" - in Iraq and in the inner cities and many rural areas. And thus, when Nader and Jackson take their stand, it looks as if they agree with DeLay. I am still frustrated that Kerry and Clinton and all the other Democratic Senators let the law pass by three senators. They probably thought, still do, that it is a no-win issue and they'd better stay away from it, but real leaders do not duck from hard questions; they face them head on.

[Joey Liberal]

15. The cuts in Medicaid and Social Security are far more threatening

People with disabilities should be far more worried about what Bush and the republicans want to do with Social Security and Medicaid. The Schiavo case has nothing to do with the average disabled person. But Medicaid and Social Security are critical, and both are in the sights of the conservatives. After all, they want more tax cuts, and who will stand up for the disabled then?

[Lindacooks]

28. RIGHT!!!!!

The concern should be focused on Repukes who want to dismantle Medicare and Medicaid, cut funding for medical research, including stem cell research, and don't want to put money into enforcing the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Terri Schiavo was not disabled. She was in a PVS. They are very different.

[Mass]

32. Not the problem

The problem was about her choice, no what she was.

Even being a PVS, if she had wanted to live like that, that would have been her choice. This is exactly the point the disabled fear, that we decide who should live or not, rather than inforcing people's choice.

I know that their fear is misplaced, but some of these talks show a lack of sensibility which is bothering.

[Lindacooks]

36. But the whole point of the endless trials was to determine her wishes.

This case was so thoroughly adjudicated, solely for the purpose of determining what she would have wanted.

The disabled should fear Republicans far more than Democrats - Repukes are the ones who want to control your every move and decision. Democrats think people are smart enough to figure it out for themselves.

[Mass]

37. Yes but WE presented the problem

as if we did not care what she wanted. We went along about how she was deadbrain as if it was the only thing relevant and we fell into the trap the Republicans posed. Read your post, where do you say it was her wish. I am sure that this was implicit, but this type of talk is exploited by people.

Even if she had been in a better state, but still very sick and wanted to die, we should have respected her choice. If she had not wanted to die whatsoever, she should have lived. By insisting about her state rather than her wishes, we make it as if there is a clearcut line between when we should allow somebody to die and when we should not. And be certain that the GOP knows how to exploit that with a total hypocrisy and play with the fear some groups have already.

[Eloriel]

43. I don't think that's true, Linda

This case was so thoroughly adjudicated, solely for the purpose of determining what she would have wanted.

It's MY understanding there was ONE trial for that and all the others were about procedural matters. If there was testimony not allowed in the first, if there was bogus testimony, if there were new information since then -- all of that would have made no difference in the subsequent "trials."

In truth, that's what the Congressional hooplah and bill was all about: Congress wanted the federal courts to do a completely NEW trial. They didn't.

I am totally UNcomfortable with this case and how it fell out, including the Dems' very poor performance and response. I really took note of Sen. Harkin's general response. I trust him a lot.

[Lindacooks]

51. No, there were seven years of trials with 19 judges

many lawyers and judges have said that.

And the congressional hoopla was all about right wing Repukes inserting themselves into a private matter, which is what they think they do best.

[KittyWampus]

53. STILL Uncomfortable? Must Not Have Gotten Any Further Than The

GOP propaganda then.

But then, it is difficult to adhere to rational discourse when we have unresolved issues that touch on a current event in some way.

IT's happened to me and everyone.

[Debs]

69. No

At least one if not more of the appeals trials again looked at the findings of fact, going over the evidence again.

[barb162]

35. I think you're right and I thought Jesse Jackson made a good case

in Florida to several newscasters that long term disability care in this country needs fixing and funding. I think he showed (and also felt) a lot of compassion for Terri Schiavo and then he put his two cents in on better care for the disabled, a good Democratic Party position. I noticed some of the newscasters seemingly taken aback when he put in his plug for long term care. I also noticed some GOP people stumbling all over themselves on that exact same issue because their essential/basic hypocrisy is they say they are concerned about Terri's life and then take benefits away every chance they get.

[KittyWampus]

54. Terri Was Not "Disabled" In The Ordinary Sense Of The Term

Only in the medical sense... which HIDES the fact she was 90% brain DEAD.

[Mass]

16. The problem is that many comments have been about

whether her life was worth living or not rather than about what was her wish. For heavily disabled people, these types of comments are offensive and frightening because who are we to decide if somebody else life is worth living or not.

The Schiavo case should have been about choice. It should have been about what Terri Schiavo wanted. It stopped being about that the moment people began to argue about "Brain dead" vs "Brain damaged".

So yes, there is a real problem with disabled people about this subject, largely because the GOP knows how to use words better than we do.

On the sideline, we are beginning to see the same thing with stemcell research. The debate yesterday in MA was largely about the harvesting of eggs and whether it is dangerous or not for the women who will do it, and that will probably be the poorest given that the harvesting will be paid. Republicans have already seized the subject and are changing the debate from a science issue to a women's right issue, with a very convincing argument for me.

Sometimes, we have to be careful with the words we used.

[JDPriestly]

19. It was about choice -- her choice

as Michael Schiavo and others apparently testified to it in court.

[Mass]

21. Yes

but many people forgot that and talked about her with total disrespect.

I turned AAR just when they announced her death, and rather than words of respect, they began arguing about being brain dead and how she was better dead. This shows a lack of sensibility that is disturbing.

[JDPriestly]

46. Yes.

It's crass. Neither Democrats nor Republicans have a monopoly on it. There is no reason to be mean to the Schindlers or disrespectful of the Schiavos. They simply have different points of view -- and you never know where you feet would take you if you had to wear their shoes, either the Schindlers or Michael Schiavo.

[barb162]

52. you got it straight!

I was watching Keith Olberman/countdown about 2 wks.ago and he was talking to a bioethicist about Terri Schiavo and the bioethicist commented there were 30,000 with PVS in this country. And then he talked about people in various other states of severe disability and you know where he was going.

"For heavily disabled people, these types of comments are offensive and frightening...." Oh yes

[Debs]

70. It was wholly about her choice for me

The issue of the extent of her brain damage WAS relevant however as it needed to be established that she was not going to get better. If she could have improved as many rightwingers asserted, that would change the equation

[PA Democrat]

17. Check the record of some of Bush's judicial nominees

with respect to the rights of the disabled.

William Pryor, a nominee to the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals (Florida, Georgia and Alabama), is vigorously opposed by disability rights advocates for his radical interpretation of states’ rights and opposition to enforcement of federal laws that protect people with disabilities.

Judge Dennis Shedd, a Bush nominee to the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, has a striking record of hostility toward civil rights during his years on the federal bench, including a consistent disregard for the rights of people with disabilities. He has ruled against disability rights plaintiffs in almost every instance, departing from settled law and adopting tortured interpretations of disability rights laws.

http://www.bazelon.org/takeaction/alerts/8-23-02shedd.htm

Terrence Boyle, a nominee to the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals (North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia and Maryland), has issued a number of rulings with an extremely narrow view of Congress' power to enact civil rights laws, such as the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). He has ruled that Congress overstepped its authority in providing protections for people with disabilities under the ADA.

http://www.bazelon.org/takeaction/alerts/2005/1-19judicial.htm

This is just for starters.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

49. That just speaks volumes...

Thanks for posting that info. It really shows the "compassion" of this bunch for people with true disabilities.

[PA Democrat]

55. I have a disabled child

and am on several list serves that put out great information regarding legislation, budgets, judicial nominees, etc. and their impact on the disabled. I've been involved in political advocacy for the disabled for more than a decade, and I am really frightened by what I see coming out of this administration.

It used to be that when it came to issues affecting the disabled there were a lot of people on both sides of the aisle who wanted to help. That's not the case anymore. "Compassionate conservatism" is a cruel farce.

[noamnety]

56. Don't forget Jeffrey Sutton!

Judge, Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit
Jeffrey Sutton, has argued that unnecessarily keeping people with disabilities in institutions was not a form of discrimination. Argued that Medicaid beneficiaries cannot sue to enforce their rights. Persuaded the Supreme Court to rule against a nurse with breast cancer on the ground that the Americans With Disabilities Act does not apply to state employers.

or this "err on the side of life" gem:
U.S. District Court for the District of Utah, 10th Circuit
Paul G. Cassell, an ardent advocate of capital punishment, testifed before Congress that the risk of an innocent person being put to death is outweighed by the benefits that capital punishment has in our society. Has argued "in virtually all moral problems in which we sense a conflict between justice and utility, we are prepared to concede that there is some point at which utility will take precedence."

That doesn't even begin to address the administration's attitude toward allowing increased lead poisoning, mercury poisoning, etc.

[PA Democrat]

57. I forgot about that cretin

Jeffrey Sutton says "The Americans with Disabilities Act is not needed."
Board of Trustees of the University of Alabama v. Garrett, 531 U.S. 356 (2001), oral argument transcript, p. 24.
www.supremecourtus.gov

It would probably be simpler to list those Bush judicial nominees who would protect the right of the disabled. the list would be much shorter.

[question everything]

61. This is scary!! n/t

[Jesus Saves]

30. You'd really have to be a moron to think so IMO

or just straight up ignorant...I mean breathtakingly ignorant.

What about that law Bush signed in Texas in 1999? It allows the death decision to be made about money over family members' objections!

What about funding to help disabled people to live? You think that squares with the pub's tax cut fever? I don't think so.

In short, IMO, there is NO WAY a rational, thinking, disabled person could worry about the Dems on this issue. The ones to worry about are the greedy, selfish, cruel repukes who don't give a rat's *ss about any disabled person unless they can make political hay out of it. Why weren't all the right wing nuts protesting the Texas law? The answer: they really just don't give a f*ck. It's all about politics.

[dogman]

34. Only those with a liquefied Cerebral Cortex need worry.

But then they wouldn't worry anyway, would they?

[JDPriestly]

47. Disabled people who can do so

need to put their wishes about intervention to save their lives on paper just like everyone else. The courts will respect their wishes same as they respect anyone else's. Except in cases of extreme mental disability, everyone can do this. Ms. Schiavo was totally bedridden and had no conscious control of his/her body -- in other words, she was in a persistent vegetative state and had been in it for a long time. Seven out of eight doctors agreed that she was in a vegetative state. It is a very sad situation. I hope it doesn't happen to any of us.

[dogman]

65. I watch my mother going through Parkinsons Plus right now.

She has directives but she is not gone completely yet, although with the medications she is not much more present. I know she told me that this was what she dreaded most. I find it unfortunate that we can not have the rights some have in Oregon. The problem there is, by the time you reach that point, you are not able to request it.

[question everything]

76. I am sorry for that

Yes, this is true for all of us: we do not fear death; we fear dying

My mother died of Alzheimer's and I know that she would not have wanted to ended up that way. But there was no "plug" to pull, as someone recently posted here. There were no tubes, she was not artificially kept alive; she was just there, being fed and clothed and carried from her bed to her "feeding chair." I know that I do not want to end up this way and I would like to request to be "put to sleep" now - when I am of conscious mind. But, of course, no one would do this. Not even in Oregon, I think.

[zara]

42. people with terri's condition will feel threatened!--Oops...

they're not conscience of their disability.

[applegrove]

62. It is like with terrorism. Scare them and they will vote with you. All

Karl Rove needs are a few % here and a few % there. So what group can you imagine has a history of liberalism but could be wedged?

IMHO.

The same as any other group of Americans.. people with feelings who can have those feelings worked into a frenzy that changes their thinking and what they consider to be in their best interests.

[lcooksey]

63. Some are

I saw someone on LiveJournal post about how Terri was being killed "just because she can't express herself". She had bought into all the rightwing talking points: Terri's condition was caused when Michael assaulted her, she was responsive, "lots" of doctors said she wasn't in PVS, etc., etc. The poster is disabled, and has trouble expressing herself, and was horrified that this case was just a symptom of society wanting to rid itself of "useless" people.

Lies, lies, lies. I suspect the Schindlers really believe what they're saying. People are great at seeing whatever they want to see, especially when they are parents looking at their children. But there are so many opportunists bullshitting on this issue. (Where bullshitting is defined as saying whatever they think will get them votes without any regard to what's true.)

[bitchkitty]

64. What a piece of crap article -

I suspect that it's the author's fantasy rather than the truth.

[strizi64]

71. not at all n/t

[chelsea0011]

72. Apples and oranges

The concern over the disabled is similar to the concern over the arguments for the ERA Amendment. There were all these silly side issues like men and women having to share toilets. The outcry for the disabled is over-the-top hyperbole. There is a difference between disabled and being clinically dead, which Terri surely was. The distortion about her being cognizant and aware were disgraceful.

[sendero]

73. Let the exploitation continue....

...I guess we're going to be hearing this unrepentant bullshit for months now.

People have feelings all the time. Many feelings are based on nothing but thin air. Some folks' feelings are easily exploited to push an agenda.

This situation had nothing to do with the "disabled". It was about the brain dead. And judging from some of the comments, even people who can nominally think are sometimes brain dead.

Take this comment: "There isn't a single disability rights activist I've heard from . . . who isn't afraid that this will make liberals hate them even more than they now do."

That is the most ridiculous and unsupportable pseudo-argument I've seen in a long time. Liberals hate THEM? Who fought touth and nail for the ADA? It sure the fuck wasn't Republicans. In fact, damn near every piece of legislation that has ever helped the disabled was promoted by liberals. What a stupid ingrate.

[question everything]

77. Exploitation and demagoguery

An op-ed in today strib

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5325588.html

Would you favor it if the government suddenly quit feeding and giving liquids to the political detainees being held at Guantánamo Bay, because they had become an expensive nuisance? Or would you take to the streets to protest against the viciousness of it?

Would you be in favor if one of our state governments decided to starve to death its prisoners because they had become too expensive to house? Or would you be demonstrating at prison gates or in front of the Capitol -- objecting to the inhumanity of it?

If you believe it would be inhumane and vicious to starve terrorists and prison inmates to death, what about that utterly defenseless woman in Florida named Terri Schiavo, who died Thursday?

=======

How can he possible compare healthy individuals who can care for themselves, with fully functioning brain, to the brain full of fluid where functioning nerve cells used to be?

The writer is a "retired pastor."

[El Fuego]

74. It is oddly fitting that....

. . . some Repugs think the lack of a cerebral cortex merely makes you "disabled."

[Danmel]

75. Republicans don't care about the disabled unless they can exploit them

Framing the Schiavo case in terms of "disability" is not helpful to those with disabilities who face real discrimination on a daily basis.

I, for one, never understood how someone with a severe disability could be a Republican because I would think someone who faces discrimination would be sensitive to the discriminatory outlook of the Republican party. After all, you can't help being disabled, any more than you can help being black, or gay or a woman. I would think social justice, fairness and open-mindedness and ability to look past appearances and look at the person within would be something a disabled person would value.

Republicans oppose the ADA, cut Medicare and Medicaid, cut health care funding, and their environmental policies assure that there will be more children born with disabilities. Their concern with the disabled in this case is just another exploitation, another completely disingenuous and insincere grandstand play.

We all need protection- from this crop of self righteous sanctimonious hypocrites running our once great country.