can Dem centrists win the country back from the GOP all by themselves?

[ulysses]

If so, PLEASE let them announce this fact plainly and for all to hear so that progressives can move on to longer-term goals.

[Tux]

1. Dems need

The Libertarians, Greens, and Constitution parties to win next time.

Constitution party is all about preserving the Constitution as is and will honor it in court at all times.

Greens would help get the focus on the environment, alternative fuel sources, and jobs.

Libertarians could help get people to understand that an unlimited credit card has a price and that lower gov wasteful spending and lowing taxes could aid the economy.

[ulysses]

2. the party needs

to get itself off both the goddamned security fear and corporate teats and support real people in real ways.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

8. From the Constitution party platform:

FYI-http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php:

The Constitution Party gratefully acknowledges the blessing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as Creator, Preserver and Ruler of the Universe and of these United States. We hereby appeal to Him for mercy, aid, comfort, guidance and the protection of His Providence as we work to restore and preserve these United States.

HIV / AIDS is a contagious disease which is dangerous to public health. It should not be treated as a civil rights issue. Under no circumstances should the federal government continue to subsidize activities which have the effect of encouraging perverted or promiscuous sexual conduct. Criminal penalties should apply to those whose willful acts of omission or commission place members of the public at risk of contracting HIV / AIDS.

The pre-born child, whose life begins at fertilization, is a human being created in God's image. The first duty of the law is to prevent the shedding of innocent blood. It is, therefore, the duty of all civil governments to secure and to safeguard the lives of the pre-born.

All teaching is related to basic assumptions about God and man. Education as a whole, therefore, cannot be separated from religious faith. The law of our Creator assigns the authority and responsibility of educating children to their parents. Education should be free from all federal government subsidies, including vouchers, tax incentives, and loans, except with respect to veterans.

The Voting Rights Act should be repealed. The Federal Election Campaign Act, including its 1974 amendments, and the Federal Election Commission should be abolished.

The law of our Creator defines marriage as the union between one man and one woman. The marriage covenant is the foundation of the family, and the family is fundamental in the maintenance of a stable, healthy and prosperous social order. No government may legitimately authorize or define marriage or family relations contrary to what God has instituted. We are opposed to amending the U.S. Constitution for the purpose of defining marriage.

We commend Former Chief Justice Roy Moore of the Alabama Supreme Court for his defense of the display of the Ten Commandments, and condemn those who persecuted him and removed him from office for his morally and legally just stand.

The Constitution grants no authority to the federal government to administrate a Social Security system. The Constitution Party advocates phasing out the entire Social Security program, while continuing to meet the obligations already incurred under the system.

[ulysses]

3. really, I need to know.

Our Man Al has already said that anti-war folks have no place in the party, so based on his august opinion, I should already have a foot out the door. However, I would very much not like to be accused (again) of being the sole cause of the ruination of the country, so I want to know that the pragmatists have everything - the canvassing, the calling, the pavement-pounding, the faxing, the emailing, the pro...ok, y'all don't do protesting - well in hand.

[Q]

5. The fact that the DLCers keep 'warning' Progressive Democrats...

...to shut up or go away tells the whole story.

Democrats should keep in mind that it was the DLC that abandoned the party principles and called themselves 'new' Democrats so they wouldn't have to be associated with the 'old' party of the people.

I'm not convinced that the DLC is interested in winning if it means someone they don't approve of getting into office. They would rather lose elections than see the party move back to the center. This is why they threw Gore to the wolves when he rejected their advice and ran a populist campaign.

They know they can't win without the whole party behind their candidates and agenda. Yet they continue their tactics of division and alienation of the progressives and liberals. This isn't a winning srategy. It's a strategy meant to keep the party divided and keep the Neocons / Neodems in control of the one-party system.

[scarletwoman]

4. Well, they'll do it without me.

If there's not a progressive candidate running on a progressive platform in 2008, I'm not going to bother voting. I'm totally fed up with being played for a chump by the Ruling Class.

I've voted in every presidential election since 1972, and always voted Dem. But the older I get, the more I realize that it's all a farce -- a bit of Kabuki theater put on by the Ruling Class to distract the masses just enough to prevent them from realizing that our government is really a plutocracy.

So, until there's a presidential candidate willing to stand up and tell the Truth, who's willing to stand up for the People against the powerful, I'm done with the whole stupid sham.

sw

[TankLV]

12. Me too. I have almost the same exact pedigree - to the timeline.

Me and my partner already have one foot out the door.

The party should "shit or get off the pot" already. Just make it clear they don't want us or our "foolish, losing" ideas. We'll be happy to oblige them and leave and stay home or fight FOR someone for a change!

I don't think they'll like the results if they are really democrats at all!

[scarletwoman]

20. Since the DLC is so sure that they know best, I'll bow to their "wisdom".

I'll totally keep out of "their" way. Not one cent, not one peep out of me. If they want to push me out of the Dem party, I will happily wash my hands of them.

Fuck 'em. If they're so sure they'll win without me, let's let them prove it. I won't vote.

sw

[leesa]

6. Not if what you are calling "centrists" are the RW dems like Lieberman

or Clinton.

[ulysses]

7. still no one from the other side of this particular aisle?

I mean, c'mon. As much as I love progressive DUers, they can't tell me whether or not Will Marshall has some super-duper strategy for winning all three branches of the federal government once all the liberals have been driven out, like the dangerous ideological lepers we obviously are, from the Democratic big tent.

There is such a strategy, right?

[Dr Fate]

9. LOL! I'm a moderate- but with you.

It's true- the DLC is nuts for trying to divide the party against the base-who do they think is going to empty the god-damn waste-baskets, put out signs and knock on the doors? Swingvoters?

Forget right or left- look at it form a strategic stand point- the DLC or "Me too" philosophy is what basically lost us the past 3 elections- certainly '02 and argueably '04- it stinks- and now they give us more advice?

Newsflash folks- you dont have campaigns w/o the left-the "base" does the work- you have nothing without them.

[MissMarple]

10. Centrism??. The base of the Democratic Party is progressive and populist.

That is it's base. Like it or not. And what is this centrism thing? Progressive populists on both sides of the aisle get real work done for America. They move things forward for the American people. And, quite frankly, they have been outflanked by raw power.

This isn't about ideology, it's about people...and who they trust. And, sadly, shadows and mirrors fool a lot of folks. Our beliefs, our needs, our ideals remain the same. They are, and will remain, quite diverse. And, until the we decide to work to level the entrance onto the playing fields and to care for our people, all of our people, we will remain divided and at war among ourselves.

I guess it's a question of values. Do we value people or do we value power?

[ulysses]

11. so many vocal centrists,

so few answers to a simple question.

[NightOwwl]

13. What if they gave an election...

and nobody came? Do you think the "centrists" would finally get the message?

[ulysses]

14. no.

They'd blame our liberal asses.

[scarletwoman]

21. Not if we just stay out of their way.

That's what I'm gonna do. I'll wash my hands of the whole mess. If they're so sure they can do without me and my kind, I say let them prove it. I'll totally stay out of their way.

sw

[xchrom]

15. no -- do they care?

you tell me.

[sandnsea]

16. Can lefty anarchists?

Nobody can and the sooner people figure that out, the better off we'll be. We have to identify areas of agreement and go forward from there. And STOP BASHING.

[ProgressiveConn]

17. I'm a progressive before I'm a Democrat.

If the Hawks and Corporatists keep control of the party we might as well all join the GOP.

"Centrist" means that you favor corporations over people and enjoy killing innocent civilians in Iraq.

[John_H]

18. No, but one-percenters can give the GOP a lock all by themselves.

Once percenters have the right to vote for any third party candidate they want, but assuming they value intellectual honesty, they should amit they realize full well that in the real world of US electoral politics such a vote helps the GOP and that they decided to do it anyway.

Instead, third party voters eitherignore that fact or, in fleischeresque doublespeak, spin it.

[xchrom]

19. do corporate powers that be represent centrists interests?

when the dlc talks about centrism -- they're not talking about indiviual citizens -- are you?
they're talking about general electric, dow chemical, etc claiming that soccer mommies and daddies think the same.