Does anyone else feel a little betrayed by Clinton?

[liberalitch]

I would hoped that those people leave as bad a taste in his mouth as they do mine, but right now he seems to be "in with them".

Maybe I'm wrong... maybe it serves some purpose I just don't understand.

[Webster Green]

1. Protocol.....

He hates their fucking guts!

[redqueen]

2. Oh, wait a second...

I thought you were asking if we felt betryaed by Clinton while he was president, which I do.

Nevermind.

[liberalitch]

20. Whoa!!!! Wait hold on.....

the best president of our life times (unless you lived under FDR) and you feel betrayed by his presidency?

Largest surplus in history, largest, longest period of econ. growth.... What are you crazy?

[redqueen]

24. No, I'm not crazy... I have perspective.

IMO he helped to push this party to the right.

Also.. saying he was the best in our lifetimes isn't saying much, considering how dominated by corporations this country is.

[freedom_to_read]

3. he's a political animal

... He couldn't stay away from this if he tried!

[calimary]

30. Hey, which of them would you want representing YOU at the Pope's

funeral? little george? Big george? or Bill? I know who I picked (bye george).

[Horse with no Name]

4. The only thing that I can think of is that he is following an old adage

"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer"
:)

[WI_DEM]

5. I honestly think it is part of the grand political calculations

to get Hillary elected in 2008 they have to convince alot of people that the Clinton's aren't dye in the wool liberals (as if they ever were)and by having lots of interaction with the Bush's is one way to accomplish it.

[Katidid]

21. I agree with you WI_DEM

Hillary is going to need as much help as she can get if she is "eye-ing" the presidency in 2008 .. She has made some real errors in these past years.. and seems to say and do what she feels is momentarily expedient.

She reminds me of an otter - the way they roll over and over in the water, changing positions and playing with their oyster before cracking it open and eating it.

I think I am becoming really cynical.

[meegbear]

6. Why? What did he do THIS time?

:eyes:

[Goldmund]

7. Not me.

I never would have expected anything else from Clinton.

It baffles me when some people here think of him as some kind of a liberal beacon, like Che or something.

[Webster Green]

11. No shit!.......He needed to inhale!

That might have helped!

[Warpy]

8. I have felt betrayed by Clinton

since he first showed his colors as a DLC Democrat by rushing NAFTA and GATT through Congress without holding them up in order to get something for ordinary people, like a rational minimum wage hike or universal healthcare insurance. Even his tax hike on the rich was timid.

He was always too quick to cave to them, showing that ideologically he was much closer to the pubbies than to rank and file Democrats.

He'd have been a total loss had he not stood up to the right wing religious nut jobs and refused to resign during the impeachment circus.

IMO, that is the only thing that saved his presidency.

[Kelvin Mace]

9. Almost daily

He is the consumate politician, the man who will do what is needed to get elected.

It is disheartening.

[Inland]

10. Nope.

Aside from the fact that being the previous head of state means you have to pretend to respect the current head of state---

Clinton doesn't mind standing next to Bush for the same reason I don't mind it. a) Bush clearly does it to boster his own image overseas, and create a "no-heckle zone" and b) for here at home, it reminds everyone how we traded down in 2000, simply because Clinton made peace and prosperty look so easy that the nation could indulge in any old chimp for the office.

[havocmom]

18. Do you think he likes to go along cuz it points out the stark contrast

between a man who does know, understand, and relate to the average American as opposed to the bozo who pretends to be regular folks?

It's win/win for Clinton. The bushista think the Big Dawg is being a good little puppy and heeling like they tell him to. They think it makes life better for them to be seen with him. Shows how desparate they are and how much they are hated.

Clinton is probably worth a legion of SS personnel when they all go overseas. Have to think that deep inside, the bushistas know they are hated. Have to think Clinton finds it amusing and has his own reasons for going along, being all gracious. Think of the stuff he can overhear when they get used to him around.

Hell, Poppy said he thinks Clinton thinks of him like the father he never had! The dumb fuck can't tell the difference between father envy and good manners. Bill must be laughing his ass off.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. You don't seriously think that he's forgotten that these are the

people who did their vicious best to destroy him from the day he was elected, do you?

There's political calculation behind his cozying up to Bushco, and it has nothing to do with abandoning his moderate (not necessarily liberal) positions. I just hope he lives long enough to see it play out -- those people are in it for the long haul, and it could take years to turn things around.

[calimary]

31. I agree. And if anyone can calculate something, it's a guy with a brain

like Clinton's. I, too, hope he lives long enough to see his record more fully and publicly vindicated, and the bushes (at least some of them) who did their level best to persecute him and hound him from office (probably still nursing a grudge from Nixon - elephants never forget) finally, Finally, FINALLY get theirs.

Bill Clinton isn't perfect, either. But at the moment, he's one of the best we've got. He's FAR FAR FAR better, by maybe a factor of lightyears, than little george, or even big george will ever hope to be on their best days. And he committed the worst sin against them that's imaginable - he remained standing after all the knock-out punches they could throw at him. I still give him the benefit of the doubt. People do it for bush, for far fewer and far less legitimate reasons.

[MrModerate]

13. Nah . . . like a number of the posters above have suggested . . .

He's a political creature. He wants Hillary in the White House and the more "presidential" he acts -- especially in the company of goons and dwarfs -- the more likely that is to happen.

I never felt betrayed even when he was in office. I just felt that he was a really smart guy capable of making really stupid choices in certain areas (like the area between his belt and his knees).

Bill has many miles to go before he sleeps. Can you say "Mr. Secretary General"?

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. "...capable of making really stupid choices in certain areas..."

Well, aren't we all? Seriously.

[calimary]

33. Absolutely. It reminds me of a line that the late Lee Remick said to Amy

Irving in the movie "The Competition." I'm paraphrasing - "it's going to take nature another hundred years to evolve the kind of man you have in mind. So in the mean time, get out there and dance with what there is."

Clinton's primarily a pragmatist, I think. That's what you get when you have a superior and nimble intellect that's been exposed to (and sopped up) the finest opportunities for learning, understanding, and experience-building, plus the critical and analytical skills to apply those lessons where/when needed. I am, too.

I never felt betrayed when he was in office, either, except by those of his party and political leanings who wouldn't stand up more aggressively to those trying to tear him down. It's often said that the main problem for us Democrats is that many of us are purists in our thinking and beliefs. Compromise for some is anathema. Unfortunately, in this imperfect world, filled with imperfect people, compromise is inevitable, and it's part of the bone marrow of politics. And it's the fact that we have so many purists in our party, I think, that keeps Democrats from coalescing into one big monolithic force that drives irresistably toward a goal. tepubli-CONS can put aside their differences when push comes to shove, and get on the same battering ram and push themselves forward - while we all sit back, arguing about fine points. Those fine points are, in many cases, extremely important, but when they become all-encompassing and keep us from banding together for a greater goal like the bad guys always seem able to do, we wind up losing yet another election. Clinton didn't do everything I wanted him to do, either. But I don't see things from the vantage points he has, in space, time, or experience.

[kliljedahl]

38. Well said calimary

I've thought the same thing on many occasions but you've expressed it far better than I ever could.


http://www.kliljedahl.net

[xultar]

14. HELL FUCKIN NAW! WTF IS WRONG WIT-CHALL PEOPLE? n/t

[Commendatori]

15. He's keeping his name fresh.

If Hillary's going to run, she's going to need his star power and fundraising abilities to win.

Trust him to be smarter than the Repugs he's being photographed with.

Besides, he can lick their boots in public for all I care as long as we win in 2008.

[sinkingfeeling]

16. Nope, not at all. n/t

[PhuLoi]

17. yes, n/t

[ernstbass]

19. Clinton's are out for themselves

and Bill let me down plenty when he was in office - no attention to the piss poor minimum wage, no attention to our ridiculous mandatory minimum sentencing and absurd laws about pot, no focus on pharmaceutical companies and their shenanigans - he and Hil don't give a damn about anyone but themselves.

[Tux]

22. I do in one way and one word

NAFTA. Oh, H1B guest worker plan.

Other than that, he is great.

[Old and In the Way]

23. No, not at all.

I do feel let down by 50% of the American electorate, though.

[Catherine Vincent]

25. No. I'll have to agree with another DUer that thinks he's hanging with the

Bushes just to piss off the repukes in freeperworld.

[RethugAssKicker]

26. He was always to center of the road

for me. I like him and I think he was the best pres. we've had... but I wish he would have stood up to the RW assholes and kick some butt sometimes... but he just NEVER did!

[cannabis_flower]

27. yes

I felt betrayed by Clinton before he left office. There were more marijuana arrest under Clinton than any other president.

[paulk]

28. maybe he went because he's held in such high esteem

by the rest of the world.

Why does it have to be about Bush?

Someone has got to stand up for this country on the international stage -

[groovychick]

29. Bill is smart - Hillary will get the rub

Bill is smart. By hanging with the Bushes, it will make Hillary seem moderate in 2008, no matter how she votes in the Senate. His spirit of cooperation will rub off on her. As for going to the Pope's funeral, I think he's doing so out of genuine mourning and duty as ex-President.

[Eloriel]

34. Only since his first term, that's all.

Of course, others have had some fantasy about him. I'm not saying there weren't some thing he did right or well, but there was plenty about him that wasn't in any way admirable. Put another way, he's the only Republican I ever voted for.

[Tinoire]

35. Felt betrayed by him during his first term.

By the time he'd broken his campaign promise to the Black community/CBC regarding Haiti, shoved NAFTA down our throats, started an imperial war against Yugoslavia, cleverly disguised as a 'humanitarian intervention' to force them to accept "Free Trade", and starved, bombed and sanctioned the crap out of Iraq for 8 years weakening them even further for an American takeover... I was past the point of disappointment.

I don't get why people are suddenly disappointed. Clinton is showing people exactly who and what he is - a pro-corporate power broker for the elite, just like Poppy Bush. No amount of charisma should make up for his failures to the American people.

[Mark E. Smith]

36. No, I don't.

Maybe Clinton's trying to get close to the Little President because he feels a duty to the world to somehow try and curb the damned fool's irrational behavior.

I'll always give Bill Clinton the benefit of the doubt.

[xchrom]

37. while he was in office, yes.

not now -- he's doing what he wants and looking out for protocol. that's reasonable.

[wyldwolf]

39. does this thread sound familiar?

[adwon]

40. No

The man has a sense of decency and can display civility even to political opponents who demonized him. When he stands next to them, he shames them by the contrast of his conduct compared with theirs. It's damn hard for anybody to outclass Bill.

[sundancekid]

41. maybe Clinton too has forgiven his (character) assassins ... he may have

far more in common spiritually with JP2 on that score (forgiveness) than the vengeful bushies could ever fathom ... just sayin' imho