Clarkie1
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:02 PM
Original message |
Poll question: Is flying the Ameican Flag at half-staff for the Pope offensive to you? |
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Edited on Fri Apr-08-05 11:28 PM by Clarkie1
The Pope was a great man deserving of respect, but with all due respect to the Pope, I find flying the American Flag at half-staff for the Pope offensive (unless it is someone's personal flag, of course).
The flag has not been flying at half-staff every time one of our soldiers dies in Iraq. That flag stands for the principles of the American Constitution our fallen soldiers swore to protect and defend. Flying the flag at half-staff from government and public buildings for the Pope is blatent disrepect for those principles, in my opinion.
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enlightenment
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:06 PM
Response to Original message |
1. Yes, it should (for a limited time), |
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because he was a head-of-state as well as a religious leader. We've done it in the past for other heads-of-state (that we like). I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion, but I think we should try to be consistent.
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Clarkie1
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
4. What other religious leaders have we done this for? |
mcscajun
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
7. What other heads of state have we done this for? |
nadinbrzezinski
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
15. the exec order should have emphasized the HEAD OF STATE |
Clarkie1
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
18. For what heads of state have we flown the flag at half-staff |
nadinbrzezinski
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
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but we did for Churchill, a war time ally... but not for this long
As I said, they should have kept this as HEAD OF STATE, but quite on purpose they did not
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Clarkie1
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Sat Apr-09-05 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
22. The Pope is a "head of state" in name only. |
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I mean really, technically the Vatican might be a "country," but let's look at this realistically.
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Radio_Lady
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:07 PM
Response to Original message |
2. Who was the last foreign religious leader for whom we did this?? |
saracat
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Sat Apr-09-05 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
oldcoot
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Sat Apr-09-05 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
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She was not even a leader of a foreign country.
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saracat
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Sat Apr-09-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #57 |
63. No, but I think the flag was at half mast. |
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:08 PM
Response to Original message |
3. Is it flying the flag at half nast |
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or is it Bush's proclaiming we should do such that offends you?
I get the impression it's the latter.
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Clarkie1
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
9. It's the government proclaiming we should do such that offends me. |
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I'm not anti-catholic or anything. I think the Pope was a great man and religious leader. That's not the issue.
Flying the flag at half-staff should be reserved for the fallen and political leaders who serve the people, as well as national and world tragedies that affect great numbers of people. Not one man who is neither an American or a defender of our constitution.
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dogman
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:08 PM
Response to Original message |
5. I don't care one way or the other. What I have a problem with is |
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24/7, the Pope is dead, when 44 American soldiers died last week.
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Clarkie1
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
13. And where were the flags at half-mast for them? n/t |
MrSlayer
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:10 PM
Response to Original message |
6. I'm not offended nor do I support it. |
sendero
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Sat Apr-09-05 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
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... I can think of some pretty good arguments for either side of the issue. I hate when that happens :)
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queeg
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:15 PM
Response to Original message |
8. As an athiest---no problem |
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I, as an Atheist, have no problem flying the flag at half staff for the (this) pope.
I would imagine the flags of many nations are at half staff as a secular sign of respect. --- It must be remembered that although he was a leader of a faith of 1/6th of the population of the planet, he was also an individual who through actions demonstrated an ideal that perhaps more people should understand and or emulate. He understood not only the dispair of national-socialism, but the grayness of communism and the crushing weight that unrestrained capitalism can place upon the poorest and weakest in society.
I wish only that some of the far right revelationists of this country understood that morals are everything you do and say rather than just picking and choosing what morals they will follow. I imagine that most of them will want to use this somehow to make money for themselves. They somehow believe that this man was one of them, and they are fools for it.
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Leilani
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:16 PM
Response to Original message |
10. Quite frankly, so much is offensive to me |
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about this administration, that's probably at the bottom of my list.
I'm more concerned with the war, the economy, the shrinking middle class, the poor getting poorer, etc. etc.
And I'm most concerned about our troops dying for a lie.
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MuseRider
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:16 PM
Response to Original message |
11. When did this happen? |
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I missed it. Our flags are already at half staff because a long time state supreme court justice died this week.
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yurbud
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:16 PM
Response to Original message |
12. It's like "In God we trust" on money |
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It's not going to make anyone more or less religious.
I was more offended by seeing pics of his corpse. He was in pretty bad shape before he died, so it wasn't doing him any favors to display him after.
I only care about the pope picking to see if they pick the African or Brazilian guy. Like reality TV only with ugly old guys in dresses.
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Clarkie1
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:22 PM
Response to Original message |
14. Something else about this bothers me. |
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Edited on Fri Apr-08-05 11:26 PM by Clarkie1
Every human life is equally valuable, and this is too much for one human being.
Way too much.
In my eyes, it's saying other lives are of lesser value. And that is offensive.
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Leilani
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Sat Apr-09-05 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
56. I read somewhere that TV News has been receiving |
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nasty mail regarding the "coverage" of the Pope...CNN & FOX were hearing plenty from disgruntled viewers.
I thought FOX fans would be in hog heaven.
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saskatoon
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Sat Apr-09-05 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #56 |
61. lelaine---Hog heaven re the coverage of the pope |
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Silly person, they are all Fundamentalists no Catholic!
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NAO
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:30 PM
Response to Original message |
16. It's not offensive, but it is disturbing |
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I'm not all huffy and angry about it, like some x-tian fuming about x-mas.
But it does sort of disturb me.
It seems to be a dark foreboding of a theocracy on the horizon. The US Flag is a national symbol, it belongs in the political area; the Pope is a religious figure, he belongs in the spiritual arena.
I am not anti-religion per se, but I think it's been shown over and over again that when either politics or religion enters the others' sphere, the result is disastrous.
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AntiCoup2K4
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:34 PM
Response to Original message |
17. I was actually offended more by the display for Reagan.... |
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...but only because it went on way too long.
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Clarkie1
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
20. I agree that went on too long; but at least Reagan was a political leader. |
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Edited on Fri Apr-08-05 11:51 PM by Clarkie1
The flag is a POLITICAL symbol.
The Pope is "head of state" in name only. He is a RELIGIOUS leader.
This is just too much for the religious leader of one religion. It makes it seem like that religion is the favored one, and diminishes the others. What about the separation of church and state?
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saracat
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Sat Apr-09-05 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
27. The Pope is a political leader. He has a seat at the UN and has done more |
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for ME Peace than the Chimp. Popes have always been diplomats as well as religious leaders. And he is a world leader. like it or not. That is why all the other world leaders came to his funeral. They don't go to the funeral of anyone who "isn't" a world leader.
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Clarkie1
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Sun Apr-10-05 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
66. He's a religious leader who parades as a political leader. |
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I realize the Pope has done great things for a lot of people in the world, but he is a religious leader primarily, not a political one.
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saracat
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Sun Apr-10-05 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #66 |
69. Actually , as far as parading" goes, the Pope is a far |
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more legitimate"political leader" than the Chimp!:)
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Clarkie1
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Sun Apr-10-05 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #69 |
70. Well, if you are going to use the Chimp as a basis of comparison. |
ellenfl
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Sat Apr-09-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
53. my understanding is that each president choses his |
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funeral so you can blame that long drawn out waste of time on ronnie raygun himself . . . or more probably, mrs. raygun. i could have done without the revisionist history that whole week too.
ellen fl
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loveable liberal
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:37 PM
Response to Original message |
19. live and let live I always say n/t |
BlueCaliDem
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Sat Apr-09-05 12:17 AM
Response to Original message |
23. The Pope wasn't just a religious leader...He was Head of State... |
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...lest we forget.
The Vatican is a sovereign country, and the Pope it's leader in addition to millions of people around the world--including American-- who are Catholic.
I'm not a Catholic. I don't agree with even half of what they teach, but I believe it's just a sign of respect for a highly regarded, and respected man as the Pope, that the flag should hang half-staff.
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leesa
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Sat Apr-09-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
48. There are very specific rules for flying the flag at half-staff and this |
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is not one of them. Did we fly it for the Lebanese PM killed recently?
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buckup
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Sat Apr-09-05 12:19 AM
Response to Original message |
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Why would anybody be OFFENDED by that? I don't understand.
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leesa
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Sat Apr-09-05 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
49. THINK about it a little bit. It won't hurt, I promise. |
lostinacause
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Sat Apr-09-05 12:21 AM
Response to Original message |
25. Yes, he was a head of state. |
Up2Late
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Sat Apr-09-05 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
30. He's NOT flying it at half staff because he was head of state... |
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..."You know it, I know it, the American People know it..." Bob Dole
I'll agree with you as soon as I hear the Chimp make the announcement that we are going to be flying the Flag at half staff for the Prince of Monaco, who just died too. He WAS the head of State of a European Country almost the same size as the Vatican, until then, it just another lie.:grr:
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BlueManDude
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Sat Apr-09-05 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #30 |
34. The flag flies at half staff to help W destroy social security |
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that's what it's all about.
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lostinacause
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Sat Apr-09-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
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Ok, a head of state of a relevant "country" that is a friendly “nation”.
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Up2Late
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Sat Apr-09-05 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #42 |
43. What about the comparison do you NOT understand? |
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Monaco and Vatican City are nearly identical in all regards except for two things, the Prince of Monaco was the ruling Monarch of a small, very rich Country, and the Pope was the head of a very wealthy Church, who was also, technically the head of a tiny section of Rome referred to as the "City State of Vatican City".
Monaco IS an actual country, just like Liechtenstein, just like Andorra, and San Marino, as much as, if not more so that the "City State" of Vatican City.
I guess they haven't covered that subject on Fox "news" or Rush Limpbauh.
Get a clue Troll.:grr:
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lostinacause
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Sat Apr-09-05 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #43 |
44. The political relevance of Monaco and the people who live |
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there is far less then that of the Vatican. I bet most people can't even point Monaco out on a map.
(Rush could hardly be defined as a talk show let alone news.
And regarding the troll comment: two major characteristics of a troll are name calling, rhetoric (such a comment on what type of news someone watches). In my short time on here I have not called anyone a name and have not posted rhetorical posts. I have put up with a major poster calling me stupid for "being wrong" when he/she was mistaken.
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leesa
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Sat Apr-09-05 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #44 |
51. This is really a sick rationalization. So we only do friendly countries |
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and significant countries.
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lostinacause
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Sat Apr-09-05 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #51 |
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Edited on Sat Apr-09-05 05:12 PM by lostinacause
You wouldn't go to every furneral there is. Why should nations behave any differently?
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MollyStark
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Sat Apr-09-05 02:02 AM
Response to Original message |
28. Have we solved all the worlds problems then? |
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Who cares? Life is short and there are real problems to worry about.
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burrowowl
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Sat Apr-09-05 02:09 AM
Response to Original message |
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Edited on Sat Apr-09-05 02:10 AM by burrowowl
maybe (I was raised RC) but why not for Arafat? It makes me nervous re separation of churh and state, it is hypocritical to me. Fly it half-mast for the death of the republic!
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Poppyseedman
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Sat Apr-09-05 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #29 |
37. but why not for Arafat? |
Eric Chamberlain
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Sat Apr-09-05 04:25 AM
Response to Original message |
31. If directed by the the US President |
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The flag can be half staff for individuals other than US citizens. In this case we are showing respect for a man who was dear and influential across the globe and, although I am not a Christian, myself, I feel it is appropriate and honorable.
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Skittles
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Sat Apr-09-05 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #31 |
33. we don't consider that thieving, incompetent piece of SHIT |
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Edited on Sat Apr-09-05 04:40 AM by Skittles
to be a real president
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borg5575
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Sat Apr-09-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
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Our Democrat Former President Clinton sure doesn't seem to mind going around with Bush. And now we hear that Clinton is giving Bush foreign policy advice. And BTW, "we" might not consider him president but try telling that to a judge if you break one of the laws that he signed into law.
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Skittles
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Sun Apr-10-05 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #58 |
71. the word is DEMOCRATIC |
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but then, you already knew that
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Skittles
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Sat Apr-09-05 04:36 AM
Response to Original message |
32. how does a homophobe and misogynist deserve"great respect" |
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Edited on Sat Apr-09-05 04:36 AM by Skittles
???
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borg5575
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Sat Apr-09-05 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
59. Ask the millions who flooded the streets of Rome to pay tribute.. |
Wabbajack
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Sat Apr-09-05 08:10 AM
Response to Original message |
36. I don't think the flag should ever been flown at half-mast |
KTM
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Sat Apr-09-05 08:44 AM
Response to Original message |
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I'm a non-religious person, usually big on separation... but this doesnt bother me one bit.
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rodeodance
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Sat Apr-09-05 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #38 |
39. it does not bother me one way or another. It is not a yes/no binary |
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response as indicted in the poll above.
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Totally Committed
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Sat Apr-09-05 11:03 AM
Response to Original message |
40. The flag should be at half-mast permanently... |
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until Bush's war in Iraq is over, and the last American or coalition soldier has died there. He won't attend their funerals, his representitive will not sign the fill-in-the-blanks condolence letters, so maybe a permanent half-mast???
TC
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stray cat
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Sat Apr-09-05 11:36 AM
Response to Original message |
41. England played our national anthem at the changing of the guard |
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I was extremely touched after 9-11 when England played the U.S. National Anthem at their changing of the guard. They did it as a sign of unity with our tragedy. There is a place for symbolism and respect for other nations. I think it was proper to pay respect to the passing of a pope.
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lostinacause
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Sat Apr-09-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #41 |
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I hope it will happen more often.
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dhinojosa
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Sat Apr-09-05 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #41 |
46. You said it better than I would've.... |
Clarkie1
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Sun Apr-10-05 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #41 |
67. Do you realize how crazy the comparison you just made is? |
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Edited on Sun Apr-10-05 12:51 AM by Clarkie1
To compare 9/11 to the passing of a 84 year old man who lived a good life is incomprehensible to me.
Was this "tragedy" unexpected? Of course not. A new Pope will be elected, the Church will go on.
Do you propose we do the same for the death of every Islamic Cleric, the Dalai Lama, Native American Shaman, ect?
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leesa
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Sat Apr-09-05 04:53 PM
Response to Original message |
47. Not offensive, just curious. Certainly he is a head of state, but we never |
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fly them for most heads of state. Wasn't the PM of Lebanon assasinated just a short while ago? Didn't see any half-mast flags for him.
Just more PR hype.
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HarrietBrown
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Sat Apr-09-05 04:57 PM
Response to Original message |
50. Yes--completely politically motivated and inappropriate. |
ginnyinWI
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Sat Apr-09-05 05:25 PM
Response to Original message |
54. The flag should be at half staff until our troops come home! n/t |
RevCheesehead
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Sat Apr-09-05 05:37 PM
Response to Original message |
55. It doesn't offend me personally; however, I'm a bit uncomfortable... |
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whenever religion and politics mix. To me, there is no doubt: the Pope is primarily a RELIGIOUS figure. He is also a global leader, but a leader in the Roman Catholic faith around the world.
It just makes be a bit squeamish.
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Blue Moon
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Sat Apr-09-05 06:44 PM
Response to Original message |
60. I'm more offended by people who burn the flag |
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than I am by a government decision to use the flag to honor someone deemed by many to have done a lot of good for the world.
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David Ippolito
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Sat Apr-09-05 07:04 PM
Response to Original message |
62. YES... it is inappropriate |
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Absolutely.
The Founding Fathers would be picketing in their graves.
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buckup
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Sat Apr-09-05 09:07 PM
Response to Original message |
64. It is completely appropriate... |
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Because he is, in a way, an international leader... There are Catholics not just here, but all over. If Pope John Paul II had told Catholics to "kill all the Muslims," then it might be a different story. But this man actually reached out to other religions. His Jewish friend was the Vatican's band director. And he met with leaders of other religions, including the Dali Llama. His leadership actually rises above political leadership, in some ways.
Isn't "offended" a strong word, anyway? Isn't "offended" usually used for more personal attacks, like, "Hey, you're ugly... and dumb.... and you reek of cheese." ?
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NoPasaran
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Sat Apr-09-05 09:11 PM
Response to Original message |
65. Your topic asks one question but your poll asks another |
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I don't think we should be flying our flags at half-staff for the Pope of Rome, but am I offended? After the last five years it barely registers on my outrage meter.
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Clarkie1
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Sun Apr-10-05 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #65 |
68. In retrospect "improper" would have been better word choice perhaps n/t |
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Edited on Sun Apr-10-05 12:59 AM by Clarkie1
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amjucsc
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Sun Apr-10-05 02:39 AM
Response to Original message |
72. If this is the most important thing we have to worry about... |
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Then, boy, George must have resigned! Why didn't somebody tell me?
If all seriousness, though, I don't find this to be important enough to justify much indignation. JP2 was a man of a magnitude sufficient to justify such a sign a respect, and thus I'll shrug it off.
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Radical Activist
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Sun Apr-10-05 03:33 AM
Response to Original message |
73. All human life has value. |
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If they put the flag at half-mast for a penniless bum who died on the street at night I wouldn't be offended.
But yes, the flag should be at half-mast every day because of the war in Iraq.
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Joe Chi Minh
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Sun Apr-10-05 11:23 AM
Response to Original message |
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Edited on Sun Apr-10-05 11:26 AM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
from an article I came across recently in the context of the Pope's funeral. I don't know if it was reported over there. I should have kept something of the context of my cutting, as it just mentions what uncle Fidel wrote or an extact from it.
"Rest in peace, indefatigable warrior for friendship between peoples, enemy of war and friend of the poor", he wrote. Your departure pains us and we fervently wish your example is lasting".
It sounds like the RC Church's Social Doctrine was certainly not as much of a secret under his pontificate as I had thought. We know he fought like mad against the war in Iraq. It was great to read such a clear-seeming indication of what seems to have been a genuine "rapprochement" and growing respect between those two great men.
Naaa... Must have been a mistaken. Must have been Jnr wrote it.
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gauguin57
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Sun Apr-10-05 11:56 AM
Response to Original message |
75. It does bother me, but ... |
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... when I think about his role in helping bring down the Soviet Empire ... he indirectly helped our country. Because during the eight years of the Clinton administration, we didn't have to be obsessing about the Iron Curtain threat -- and didn't have to be pouring all the money into it that we used to.
Well, then Bush came along and got us into another war ...
Still, ordering flags at government buildings, etc., to be at half-staff for a specific religious leaders DOES give me the willies.
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Tue Apr 30th 2024, 10:53 AM
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