8 Kerry threads on the "Greatest" page.

[yebrent]

I'm not exactly sure what I think about this.

I still haven't gotten over his lack of organization in identifying and shining the spotlight on election day trickery the moment is was happening. I had faith that all the money that was being held back in the campaign would be used to fight the illegal tactics in real time, with hundreds of people taking video and thousands of lawyers by their side. It seems that was not the way it happened. It took people totally unaffiliated with the Kerry campaign to notice the problems and file complaints.

It seems that the Kerry campaign had a faith of their own. A faith that the election would be run fairly, simply because they threatened that they would be watching closely. This was not the case, and they were left as unprepared as the Gore campaign. Gore at least had more of an excuse and stuck around to fight it out.

I guess I'm not ready to forgive Kerry yet, even if he has forgiven himself. He and the people around him should have known better.

There is one other possibility: Maybe he knows how badly he screwed up and is doing all he can to make up for it? However, I have a hard time believing that any career politician would place the blame squarely on their own shoulders, but that is just my opinion.

[DrGonzoLives]

1. Another possibility

is that Kerry supporters are just voting for all the Kerry threads.

[Catherine Vincent]

2. Or it could be the Kerry supporters are upset because of what

Drudge conveyed on his website suggesting Kerry outed a CIA agent.

[kerrygoddess]

14. That has been debunked

This explains it all and slams Anne Gearan (the AP writer)for making a big deal about it!

Late Update: Let me be clear about this: Senators Kerry and Lugar said nothing new by mentioning Armstrong’s name.

The Washington Times-owned Insight on the News identified Armstrong as the NIO who was “coordinating” Bolton’s speech in September 2002.
The New York Times published a story about efforts by Otto Reich to pressure Armstrong in January 2003.
A Wall Street Journal opinion piece accused Armstrong of a “lackadaisical approach to a mounting body of disturbing evidence” about threats to the United States from Cuba and Venezuela in March 2003.
Salon mentioned Armstrong, again by name, as an analyst who had been smeared as ” somehow under the influence of the Cuban government” in January 2004.
Senator Lugar—according to my transcript—opened the hearing by announcing:

Now, staff has in fact interviewed Mr. Westerman; Carl Ford, who will be appearing before the committee, as I understand, tomorrow morning at our hearing at 9:30; Mr. Fred Flights (ph), the Bolton special assistant who might know something about this; Tom Fingar, the INR principal deputy assistant secretary at the time; Fulton Armstrong, national intelligence officer for Latin America at the NIC at the time; Stuart Cohen, Mr. Armstrong’s supervisor at the NIC at that time.

Later, Chris Dodd suggested there was something untoward about mentioning Armstrong’s name and everyone played along with the ridiculous “Mr. Smith” charade until Kerry read Armstrong’s name in a transcript.

Even later update: Anne Gearan, AP Diplomatic Writer, should be ashamed of this paragraph:

Committee Chairman Richard Lugar, R-Ind., and Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., both mentioned a name, Fulton Armstrong, that had not previously come up in public accounts of the intelligence flap.

Other than the four that I cited, she means.

http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/index.php?id=535

[kerrygoddess]

24. LOL! Even WorldNet Daily Debunked it!

MEDIA MATTERS
Senators didn't 'blow' CIA agent's cover
Contrary to AP story, name previously cited several times

Posted: April 12, 2005
2:44 p.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

An Associated Press story said Sens. John Kerry and Richard Lugar may have "blown" a CIA agent's cover during confirmation hearings for John Bolton, but the agent's name has been cited publicly at least four times in the past few years.

AP diplomatic writer Anne Gearan wrote that in the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee's hearing yesterday on Bolton's nomination by President Bush as ambassador to the U.N., Chairman Lugar and Kerry "both mentioned a name, Fulton Armstrong, that had not previously come up in public accounts of the intelligence flap."

Gearan added, "It is not clear whether Armstrong is the undercover officer, but an exchange between Kerry and Bolton suggests that he may be."

But Armstrong's name already has turned up in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Salon.com and the now-defunct, Washington Times-owned Insight on the News, according to Jeffrey Lewis, research fellow at the Center for International and Security Studies at the University of Maryland.

During the hearing, the AP reported, Bolton and members of panel referred to "Mr. Smith'' as one official among several in a dispute over what Democrats asserted was Bolton's inappropriate treatment of an intelligence analyst who disagreed with him.

The Washington Post ran the AP story but chose to censor Armstrong's name in a quote by Kerry:

"Did Otto Reich share his belief that should be removed from his position? The answer is yes," Kerry said, characterizing one interview. "Did John Bolton share that view?" Kerry asked. Again, he said the answer was yes.
Writing in his weblog, Lewis said that after Lugar mentioned Armstrong's name in opening remarks, Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., suggested there was something untoward about mentioning Armstrong’s name and everyone played along with the ridiculous 'Mr. Smith' charade until Kerry read Armstrong’s name in a transcript."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43759

[Catherine Vincent]

25. Oh, I didn't need any proof of debunking, I didn't believe it anyway.

But the idiot repukes probably did.

[yebrent]

13. Yes of course that is true.

But I didn't hear of peep from Kerry for about 3-months after the election, even in the early days of the new Congress. Remember the Ohio certification, where he left town to avoid the vote certification and the tough questions that came with it? Now he seems to be trying to lead the charge on many different issues all at once. That is OK, because the Dems need all the help they can get, but I still haven't heard a good excuse as to what his campaign was doing on election day. When they heard about the lines in Ohio, he should have personally flown there that day and brought ALL the media with him to shine a damning spotlight on the events that were taking place.

They were caught flat-footed when they should have been prepared to pounce.

I guess I'm looking for an apology of some sort, or at least recognition of the fact that they screwed up before I can get excited reading about Kerry's efforts without rolling my eyes.

[kerrygoddess]

15. Maybe you weren't listening

Because plenty of others did.

[Dawgs]

22. With everything Bush and his cronies are doing, this is where you

put your effort... blaming Kerry for not being there for you after the election.

SAD!!!!

[yebrent]

26. No, not after the election.

on election day. What was his campaign doing to shine a damning spotlight on Ohio? I remember hearing for months that they had thousands of lawyers that will be on guard. Where were they?

What he did after the election was understandable, and I don't blame him for burying his head in the sand.

[saracat]

118. Kerry was litigating to get evidence released.

The courts have yet to act. No evidence=No case. They are still fighting.But when evidence is suppressed, there isn't much you can do.I don't see anyone rushing the barricades. Most just want to bitch! At least Kerry is working on election reform.

[Dr Ron]

49. Kerry was asked to be lie low

Kerry had his lawyers investigating, and has proposed legislation on the voting problems.

Other supportes of voting reform wanted Kerry to lie low post-election so this would really be about reform, and not a rehash of Kerry vs. Bush. If left as a pure issue of voter reform, there is a better chance of getting majority support as many who voted for Bush would agree to reforming elections in principle.

[quinnox]

3. yea, also Clark threads are there many times also

Both men's positive threads are nominated by their supporters to get on the greatest page

[LittleClarkie]

6. I think the Kerry folk do it without anyone saying anything

Probably the Clarkies as well, but I know that there were a couple of locked threads in the Clark group after someone suggesting spamming the Greatest page. Ya might be thinkin' it, but don't come out and say it.

Do Deaniacs and other supporters do this too, nominating Dean threads and such? Or has there really not been a chance for them to since the greatest page was invented.

[quinnox]

7. I noticed that too in the Clark forum

They ask to nominate threads for greatest page, I don't know why it would be locked though, it seems nothing wrong with it to me.

It will be a more competitve "contest" when the 2008 season heats up, lol, all the different cadidates supporters will nominate positive threads over and over to see who gets on greatest page

[LittleClarkie]

11. It was considered spamming

and the powers that be were not amused.

[quinnox]

21. To me if Clark people are well organized and win all the polls on DU

then I don't see what is wrong with them organizing to get threads on greatest page, politics is a contest and organizing is part of the game

[LittleClarkie]

30. Ah, being organized is all well and good

but to be truly great, they'll need the psychic connection we Kerry Dems have. Words? We do not need words.

They have much to learn, grasshoppa.

[quinnox]

39. heh

I see!

[yebrent]

43. hmmm.

these kind of posts do not help your cause. they fall right into the elitist stereotype your candidate of choice exudes from every pore.

[LittleClarkie]

46. Ah, but the Way of Kerry is not an elitist exersize, grasshopper

It is a mental, emotional and indeed hormonal discipline that not all are ready for as of yet.

(I feel like I could levitate the Pentagon right now. Oooommmmmm)

Duuuude. I'm joking around dude. Get the funk out your face. Smile a while.

[yebrent]

52. Be careful...

You are sitting at the feet of the Great and Knowledgeable Icculus, yet you dare mock my powers. Greater wise men I have squeezed to breathlessness between my mental toes, I have. :)

[LittleClarkie]

57. Eww, mental toe jam

You win. Icculus reigns supreme.

[saltpoint]

4. Well, goddamit, I'm utterly furious that there are never any --

-- Howell Heflin threads on the Greatest Page.

Where is the outrage?

[Withywindle]

5. Well, what are the contents of the threads?

that's what counts, after all.

Are they about the campaign or the election? Or are they about stuff he's doing now, right at this moment?

Whether he's forgiven himself or not, whether others have forgiven him or not, he's certainly hit the ground running. Maybe even a "damaged goods" (in quotes because I personally don't believe it) messenger is still bringing very important messages: look at what he's saying right now; if it's good and necessary, then either grudges or crushes are irrelevant.

[whometense]

38. Well said!

It's all about the content.

Check out this one, for example: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=669&u=/usnw/20050411/pl_usnw/kerry_questions_sba_spending_on_president_s_social_security_tour162_xml&printer=1

As far as I can see, an energized Kerry is nothing but good.

And frankly, anyone who watched him char Bolton's ass yesterday ought to be cheering, unless they are too busy nursing their petty grievances to think about what's good for the country.

[KoKo]

8. We need good news about all our Dems because there's

so much bad news about the Bushies all the time.

[LittleClarkie]

9. Do they all say "You must forgive Kerry"?

Or do they appear to be news threads?

Why, if he's making the news and putting out releases and such, does it mean you have to forgive him.

It doesn't. It just means he's active and it's getting reported, just as Clarkies report Clarkie stuff, Dean folk report Dean stuff and so on. I don't have to be doing cartwheels over Howard Dean to want to know what he's up to as Chair.

I'm sorry seeing his name has this effect on you. But unless it's a "Support Kerry in 2008" thread, please don't think that's the reason it's posted on the site. We're just reporting what our guy is up to. Same as everyone else.

[yebrent]

23. I guess I should have titled my original post differently.

I'm not upset that there are 8 Kerry threads or upset that people are nominating them to greatest. It was just reading all the Kerry threads these last two days triggered the thoughts that led to the real content of my post. The following:

Where is the explanation for what Kerry and his campaign were doing before the election and and on the election day to prevent problems? I realize that some of the problems would never of been caught until later, but some were so blatant that they could have been pounced on immediately, especially the very long lines.

[emulatorloo]

29. Re "Pouncing on Long Lines" - How do you count votes that weren't cast?

Just wondering. . . .

You can point out that voters were disenfranchised because of this tactic. . .and Blackwell et all can say. . .oh nothing to see here, just equip malfunction . . . but bottom line is that uncast votes can't be contested.

[yebrent]

36. You Can't?

Why not? Long lines in heavy Democrat areas implies voter suppression. Less voting machines than existed in the primaries is voter suppression. What I would of loved is something like a John Kerry impromptu press conference at the polling station in Columbus.

Kerry: "There are people in these lines behind me that have been waiting 7 hours to vote. There are less voting machines in this heavily democratic voting precinct than during the Democratic primaries. The Republican Secretary of State, Kenneth Blackwell, is also the chairman of the Bush reelection campaign. I will tell the Country right now, if the election comes down to Ohio, I will not concede without ensuring that all election procedures where legal and all votes are counted."

A preemptive non-concession speech. If we want to get media attention and win, we need to be prepared for all outcomes and think outside the box. I thought that is what his thousands of lawyers were doing. Yes it would have been risky and might have hurt his political future if failed. But that would be fighting.

[blm]

37. The DNC should have been on top of the machines in EVERY county.

It's their job to look after the integrity of the vote for the ENTIRE ticket, especially if the officials overseeing the vote count are also GOP henchmen.

The only way for things to be different is for the DNC to work to expose the GOP control over most of the voting machines and most of the media.

[whometense]

40. Bingo:

the crux of the matter is that the "DNC should have been on top of the machines in EVERY county."

Kerry is not the DNC, and from where I sit the DNC did precious little to bolster his candidacy. How is it possible people think the election issues are to be laid solely at Kerry's doorstep?

I wish I could remember where I read it, but I saw something today talking about the foresight people are now requiring from Kerry IN RETROSPECT. He was, after all, a senator and a candidate, before that. How much is his sole reponsibility?

[LittleClarkie]

70. I was so mad at a Conservative friend who said Bush was easily beatable

I'd misinterpreted her comments that Kerry couldn't do it. I was ticked at her, as you say, putting it all at Kerry's feet.

Turns out, she was putting it on the Democrats as a whole. They couldn't pull it off. I could agree with that. I think that every one of us on the Dem side should think about what our roles were and how things could have been better. I'm getting sick of "I did my part but the Kerry campaign was pathetic."

I was part of that campaign, and while there may have been things we could have done, I reject the claim that some peacenik and her friends did everything and we did nothing. We worked our asses off. It was a team effort people. It wasn't perfect over at Moveon.org or ACT either, people. In fact, we had a refugee here and there from some of those outside campaigns who showed up in Wisconsin because we were more organized.

What I don't understand is why the DNC wouldn't have been enthused or helped to bolster the campaign. Any theories as to why that was so, Whome? Were they already looking ahead to 2008?

[whometense]

75. I don't really know, but I

tend to think it wasn't personal towards Kerry. I think they were leader-deficient and at a demoralizingly HUGE organizational disadvantage.

I don't think Clinton's surgery helped, but I think the DNC had fallen into a lazy trap, hoping that personal charisma could make up for lack of organization. This is emphatically not Kerry's fault. He was swimming upstream all the way.

[bobthedrummer]

10. A lot of US still have Kerry/Edwards bumperstickers on our cars.

Ever notice that?

[kerrygoddess]

17. I have 3!

[yebrent]

27. yes.

Will the bumper stickers tell me what the campaign with their army of lawyers were doing when people were waiting up to 7 hours to vote in Columbus?

Because that was the real question I had. The 8 Kerry posts is what just triggered me thinking about election day again and the fact that I still haven't heard Kerry's story of what happened that day. Maybe I just missed it and someone could point me to an interview or article containing that information?

I am not surprised that Kerry laid low for awhile after the election. I guess I just expected that he would create a little more closure by explaining what happened that day to their army of lawyers before he dove headfirst back into the fight.

[sandnsea]

35. They ran the numbers

The votes weren't there. That's what he said on Nov 3 and it's proven to be true.

The exit polls in NH had Kerry up by 14 or so. The vote came in much closer. There was a recount. The vote was right.

There was a recount in Ohio. Certainly not all of it was legal. But there is no evidence or suggestion that every single solitary county was illegal. The votes aren't there.

There is no evidence to prove machine tampering. You can't count people who were turned away from the polls. Kerry lawyers were in Ohio along with everybody else. They're still in the courts.

I'm not sure whether people are misninformed or just so hell bent on hating Kerry that they can't accept the facts. If he hadn't conceded, we wouldn't know as much as we do and voting reform would be a whiny loser issue instead of moving towards a bipartisan issue.

[yebrent]

42. Thank you for your reply.

I guess we just happen to disagree. I think not conceding would certainly have the risk of being a whiny issue, but not a guarantee. It would have been more a risk to Kerry's future than to the future of election reform. And I have a hard time believing that it will become a bipartisan issue if the Republicans have gained so much from it. If the Republicans have hopped on board with little or no pressure from their constituents, that means that they have found loopholes in the potential regulations. I also think that making election reform a greater issue in the campaign would have set the expectations that there would be a good chance that he wouldn't concede right away.

[sandnsea]

44. I just don't get it

Not concede to DO WHAT?? I just do not undersand what people think would have changed with Kerry not conceding. We'd have had court battles that we couldn't possibly win with the Republicans saying it had been resolved and there's nothing further to look at. I just don't understand, short of overthrowing the entire government, what not conceding would have accomplished.

[yebrent]

47. It depends.

no expectations were set.

I am everyone I know was unaware that that the Ohio Secretary of State was also the chair of the Bush reelection committee until after the election. I and everyone I know was unaware that most of the votes are counted by 2 companies who's owners are related and big Republican supporters.

If the Kerry campaign would have made statements of their doubts for a fair election prior to the election (based on the above and other facts), it would have set expectations that he may concede if the election was close. With him conceding, the mainstream message that has been created is, "The election process is fine. Go about your business." If Kerry would have said, "The system is broke", it would give much more credence to all the groups saying "The system is broke". Instead, they are treated as fringe groups by the media and most Americans. That may still have been a possibiliy, but I have my doubts.

Two elections in a row decided by the Supreme Court may have been just the thing for real election reform to take place.

[sandnsea]

51. Where's your evidence?

Sorry to tell you, but there is no EVIDENCE that the system is broke.

There is evidence that people were denied their right to vote. But that's it. There's an opposite side to that story too. A past history of people voting twice, illegal voter registration, etc. If Republicans were registering people who weren't eligible to vote, would you have a problem with it?

We've had voting shenanigans in this country forever. It's not new. We would never have a President, not ever, if we couldn't inaugurate one before investigating every single incident in every single election.

People are not putting elections in historic perspective. We have to keep working to make the system better, but we will never have a perfect election.

[yebrent]

53. If Kerry doesn't think that the election system is broke,

then it is hard to take him seriously in his efforts to fix it.

IMHO, privatized elections = broke elections. Anyone who can't see that doesn't represent me on this issue.

[sandnsea]

54. Where's your evidence?

We've been using machines made by private companies for decades. Where's your evidence that all those machines were cranking out faulty elections? If they weren't, then why should anyone believe the new ones are?

[yebrent]

56. Here for starters:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=118355

[sandnsea]

58. And?

Even if he did, where's your evidence that it was used on a machine? If you were developing voting software, wouldn't you want to know the possible ways the software could be hacked in order to improve the code?

Isn't that the argument that would be presented in court, if there were no evidence that hacking software had been used in an election?

[yebrent]

60. OK you are right.

Kerry lost fair and square.

Which means that he lost to what the history books will show to be the worst President in all of US history. hmmm. Where do I get my Kerry 2008 license plate?

[sandnsea]

71. Exactly

Kerry haters. Plain and simple. It wouldn't matter if he'd won, the same Kerry haters would be bitching about something else he'd said or done anyway.

[bvar22]

77. That is about as valid as the "bush* Haters" argument...

...from the extreme right.

Maybe Kerry earned some valid criticisms for his choices in campaign '04, and his actions created some valid doubters about his ability to win a presidency?

[sandnsea]

85. Is it election reform?

That's what the thread was about. Kerry advocating election reform and your objection to that. Is that your beef?

Or is it conceding the election? The campaign? The aloofness? The inability to connect? The poor message? The IWR vote? Not talking about abortion? Not talking about the environment? Not reaching out to minorities?

The great unified Democratic Party?

What a crock.

[emulatorloo]

74. as an aside, worst president ever maybe, excellent campaign though

in a trashy dirty lying way that the repugs have mastered. GWB is a consummate politician - he plays his role of resolute moral good ole regular boy to the hilt, Rove is excellent at playing dirty, Hughes is great at manufacturing compassion, and the whole machine is very effective at distorting and repressing the dem message.

[yebrent]

79. Were giving Republicans WAY to much credit.

It keeps us from looking at the dysfunctional and disorganized state of the Democratic Party. We reacted too much and fell into well set traps. We don't use language and framing effectively. We became the party of programs instead of a party of Vision.

It is good to see that is beginning to change with the help of Dean and others.

[emulatorloo]

88. definately outflanked and out-organized

but unlike you I don't blame Kerry totally for that.

[kerrygoddess]

92. Actually they have been organizing since the 60's

That's been documented.

There are a lot of folks out there framing these days, I'm not sure that framing is exactly the answer. Organizing is. Staying on message is important and unity. Coordination with the Senate and House so that we're not suggesting dozens of bills all for the similar things.

[emulatorloo]

93. P.S. Bush Voter "I Just Like Him!' Why? "I dunno, I just like him"

"He is so genuine, he pisses people off and says dumb things, but that is so real, I just like him!"

Credit Miss Karen Hughes and Karl Rove with crafting this persona, and GWB for performing it.

[kerrygoddess]

94. LOL! It's only a movie!

[TruthIsAll]

104. All evidence shows that Kerry won by 6-8 million votes.

You should get over to the 2004 election forum sometime.

For you to say that Bush won at this point shows that you are misinformed.

Kerry won the Pre-election polls.
Kerry won the initial 13047 repsonebt exit poll by 51-48.

Only manipulation of the final 613 in the 13660 exit poll gave it to Bush.

50,000 reported election incidents favored Bush 99% of the time.

17 states exceeding the MOE for Bush, noe for Kerry: 1 in 200 trillion odds.

42 states deviated from exit poll for Bush: 1 in 2 million odds.

All BBV controlled and operated by Repubs.






NATIONAL EXIT POLL ANALYSIS THREADS

CNN Final Exit Poll
2:05pm Nov.3 13660 Respondents

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

NEP/WP Preliminary Exit Poll
12:22am Nov. 3, 13047 Respondents
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=265121


CNN Preliminary Exit Poll
7:38pm Nov 3, 11027 Respondents
http://www.exitpollz.org/CNN_national2.htm

ELECTION 2004: THE COMPLETE GRAPHICAL REFERENCE

Edited on Sun Apr-03-05 01:57 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x352164


IS THIS ANALYSIS CLEAR? COMMENTS?

Edited on Sun Apr-10-05 12:09 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=354935#

NOW I'M REALLY CONFUSED. WAS THERE A (N)ATURAL (B)USH (R)ESPONDER?

Edited on Sun Apr-10-05 02:10 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x354894


COME ON GUYS, WHICH IS IT: RBR OR EBR ?

Edited on Sat Apr-09-05 09:35 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x354809




OK, MAYBE THERE WAS THIS BUSH "BANDWAGON" EFFECT...

Edited on Fri Apr-08-05 09:49 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x354407

RELUCTANT BUSH RESPONDER OR REINCARNATED BUSH RESPONDER?

Edited on Mon Apr-04-05 03:22 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x352359



Another National Exit Poll Mystery: The Gender Vote. Can you solve it?

Edited on Sun Apr-03-05 11:24 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x352276


Another Exit Poll Mystery: Party ID. Can you solve it?
Edited on Sat Apr-02-05 02:52 PM http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x352065

From Selection 2000 to 2004 (NEP): Voted, Died, Reborn, Did Not Vote

Edited on Fri Apr-01-05 09:46 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x351954


IF YOU BELIEVE THESE 5 IRREFUTABLE FACTS, THEN YOU MUST ALSO BELIEVE...

Edited on Fri Apr-01-05 12:58 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x351776


A 9TH GRADE ALGEBRAIC SMOKING GUN.

Edited on Fri Apr-01-05 01:42 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x351674


THE FINAL EXIT POLL MYSTERY: THE IMPOSSIBLE 43% Bush / 37% Gore MIX...

Edited on Wed Mar-30-05 11:13 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x350713


Tue Mar-29-05 08:35 PM

SENSITIVITY ANALYSIS: THE KERRY NATIONAL VOTE MARGIN OF VICTORY...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x350526




View the Mathematical FACTS for the TRUTH...

Edited on Tue Mar-29-05 10:38 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x350334


FASTEN SEAT BELTS. THIS IS THE CLINCHER.

Edited on Tue Mar-29-05 01:47 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x350225




PROOF WORTH REPEATING: FINAL NEP PADDED MINIMUM OF 3.85 MIL TO BUSH VOTE

Edited on Mon Mar-28-05 02:18 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x349796



KERRY WINS 57 OF 60 NEP SCENARIOS: NEW VOTERS VS. 2000 VOTER TURNOUT

Edited on Sat Mar-26-05 11:21 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x349444


THE MOST LIKELY SCENARIO: KERRY WON BY 7 MILLION VOTES

Edited on Sat Mar-26-05 06:16 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x349275


Reluctant Bush Responder? Or Resurrected Bush Responder?

Edited on Fri Mar-25-05 05:43 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x348688




Part IV. To believe Bush won the election, you must also believe …

Edited on Thu Mar-24-05 12:01 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x348022


HOW TO RED-SHIFT THE NATIONAL EXIT POLL IN 6 EASY STEPS...

Edited on Thu Mar-24-05 11:44 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=348456#


BASED ON THE U.S. ANNUAL DEATH RATE OF 8.7 PER 1000...

Edited on Mon Mar-21-05 09:30 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x347144


100% ABSOLUTE PROOF: FINAL NEP OVERSTATED BUSH VOTE BY AT LEAST 2 MILLION VOTES

Edited on Mon Mar-21-05 02:01 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x346932



THE MAGIC 613 FINAL RESPONDENTS: FROM 13047 TO 13660

Edited on Mon Mar-21-05 10:26 AM
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FOUR VERY RED FLAGS....

Edited on Sat Mar-19-05 01:38 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x346284


THE NATIONAL EXIT POLL TIMELINE: THE FULL STORY IN 3 GRAPHS

Edited on Sat Mar-19-05 09:22 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=346481



PROBABILITY TABLE: Exit Poll Margin of Error vs. Vote Deviation

Edited on Thu Mar-17-05 12:37 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x345177


The Unexplained Exit Poll Discrepancy: Explained

Edited on Tue Mar-15-05 01:23 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=344005




A SUMMARY EXIT POLL MATHEMATICAL FORMULATION

Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 10:54 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x343448



IF THIS PRELIMINARY NEP WEIGHT WAS CORRECT, WHY WAS IT CHANGED?

Edited on Sun Mar-13-05 04:53 AM
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Lynn Landes, this is for you.

Edited on Sun Mar-13-05 06:24 PM
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THIS EXIT POLL SIMULATION TEST BLOWS AWAY THE NEDERLAND "PROOF"

Edited on Sat Mar-12-05 12:51 PM
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Nederland now agrees: The Recorded votes and Final Exit poll are bogus.

Edited on Fri Mar-11-05 10:29 PM
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GRAPHS: 1988-2004 Prelim. Nat. Exit Poll to Vote - Trend reversal in 2004

Edited on Thu Mar-10-05 11:11 PM
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A Mathematical proof: Preliminary Exit polls are accurate

Edited on Thu Mar-10-05 09:01 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x341540





The Nat Exit Poll Crime Line: 7:58pm(K) to 12:22am (K) to 2:04pm (B)

Edited on Mon Mar-07-05 11:55 PM
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Check. Mate.

Edited on Sun Mar-06-05 04:03 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=339246






NATIONAL EXIT POLL: PRELIMINARY TO FINAL - WHAT HAPPENED?

Edited on Sat Feb-26-05 01:23 PM
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MITOFSKY EXIT POLL CAVEAT: "FINAL PERCENTAGES MAY SHIFT SLIGHTLY"

Edited on Fri Feb-25-05 12:02 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=334152



SO IT COMES TO THIS: DO YOU BELIEVE 13,047 OR 13,660?

Edited on Mon Feb-21-05 09:40 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x331601


PRE-ELECTION STATE POLLS vs. EXIT POLLS vs. ACTUALS

Edited on Sat Feb-19-05 12:02 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=330449



BLOWN TO SMITHEREENS: MITOFSKY'S "RELUCTANT BUSH RESPONDER" THEORY

Edited on Sat Feb-12-05 12:46 PM
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THE MOST DEVASTATING STATISTIC OF ALL: 17% OF THE VOTERS WERE NEW

Edited on Fri Feb-11-05 01:05 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=323939


1/23 UPDATE: NATIONAL EXIT POLL DEMOGRAPHIC STATISTICS

Edited on Sun Jan-23-05 01:50 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=301075


Bush probabilities for various Party-ID weights in the National Exit Poll

Edited on Sun Jan-16-05 04:29 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=287175







And you think Kerry lost?

[whometense]

41. I count them every day on my way to work.

Never fewer than 20.

[BlueIris]

127. I count too. It keeps me sane.

Don't see more than 10-15 a day, though.

[Dr Ron]

50. I just took off my Kerry-Edwards bumper sticker

and replaced it with a Kerry 2008 sticker. Time to look to the future rather than past.
(although I still kept my No-W sticker).

[yebrent]

55. It doesn't sound like you are looking to the future.

good luck with that.

[whometense]

76. Mine's a simple

and timeless John Kerry for President, and I like it. Even mangled a bit as it is after a snowy winter. ;-)

[Dr Ron]

89. It may be the same with 2008 added

My Kerry 2008 sticker is exactly the same as my original pre-primary Kerry stickers with 2008 added.

[LittleClarkie]

97. Is it added in yellow as if like a post it note?

I've seen those.

[Dr Ron]

99. Bumper sticker

It's white numerals on the blue background

[LittleClarkie]

96. I like that the original buttons from the primary season has no year on it

so it will be recycleable :D!

[Dr Ron]

100. Most of my Kerry stuff has no year

Obviously the Kerry Edwards is dated even if no actual date.

I also have a Real Deal round poster up which does say 2004, but most of my signs, badges, and stickers could be recycled.

[LittleClarkie]

102. That's in my car

Making it the "RealDealMobile"

[LittleClarkie]

95. Mines been on for a couple of months

I also have a "Support Kerry 08" blue wristband as well.

So far, I have a Feingold sticker from the campaign, the Support Kerry one, and a yellow ribbon magnet with a peace sign and "bring the troops home now" on it.

[Califooyah Operative]

108. I got mine,My dad has his veteran for kerry/edwards sticker on car/fridge

[sandnsea]

12. Need. More. Butt Dancing

[Catherine Vincent]

19. The only person that can probably dance like that dancing avatar

of yours is probably Michael Jackson. Cute.

[sendero]

48. Don't forget...

.. Napoleon Dynamite :)

[bvar22]

90. and Jenna Bush from what I hear.

Waiting for the video!

[MADem]

106. You'll be waiting forever

It's "no longer available." Someone either bought it, or frightened the owner, and it has gone ~~~poooooooof!~~~

[blm]

16. Maybe because it's a good way to spread news, since the media won't do

its job properly.

There have been several issues that Kerry has been on top of the past week but you would never know it from the mediawhores working for their GOP masters.

Alot of the outspoken Dems get passed over by the press. Kerry, Clark, Dean, Pelosi.....just because the media marginalizes them doesn't mean that we should follow suit.

We need to get their voices heard any way we can. Who will tell the people?

[Dawgs]

18. Please tell me where these "videos" would have been shown...

Do you think anyone but a bunch of Kerry supporters would have ever seen them. They wouldn't have shown one bit of those videos on any news program. Your world and the real world are not the same. The only stories you would have read or heard about would have been Kerry being made fun of on all the news programs.

I'm sure Kerry is much better off, considering the only ones who he pissed off are those here who are bitter about Kerry winning and not Dean. If he didn't concede and fought it they would still be telling jokes about Kerry being a crybaby loser and not getting over it.

I don't blame him. When he stops fighting for me, let me know... then maybe I'll get on your side of the Kerry hating fence.

[yebrent]

31. You have a funny definition of "fight".

He is doing his job representing his constituents.

Fighting would have been risking his political future by making a stand on election day. With all the smart people in his campaign and THE biggest day in four years where the media were focused almost solely on him and shrub, you would think they could have found a way to bring more attention to Ohio and Florida irregularities? If it was like you inferred, impossible to do so, then what hope is there?

If there is nothing they could do, then why even bother participating in another election?

[kerrygoddess]

20. Funny...

Because you would think that people would understand that with a vote margin of 3 million it was not as easy to fight as Gore winning the popular vote.

I guess Kerry coulda pulled a Bush and said "Mine, Mine, Mine". Would that have made you and others happy?

[emulatorloo]

28. Sorry that Kerry will not crawl in a hole and hide, if that is what you

require of him.

Personally I prefer him going after Bolton, Condi, and Bush, as he has been ever since Congress has been in session.

[LittleClarkie]

32. And his supporters as well

I was sorry to hear that many Deaniacs have been chased away. And glad to see many Kerrycrats have not. You'll have to pry our DU accounts out of our cold dead hands.

[emulatorloo]

33. Any Dem that does what Kerry is doing nowadays has my support

He is taking on Bush and the Bush Agenda, and being relentless about it.

So many on DU want Dems to do that.

[LittleClarkie]

34. To quote ol' Rummy

You go to battle with the champion you have, not the one you may need or want.

Whoever picks up the lance and charges has my support, if not my vote. Even Hillary.

[yebrent]

45. No, that is not what I require of him.

I just said that I wasn't surprised that he did hide until after the election was certified. I was just looking for an explanation as to what happened leading up to and on election day regarding ensuring an accurate vote.

Did they do everything they could to ensure fairness, but still fell short?

or

Did they drop the ball? (and they are sorry)

What I have heard is:

They ran the numbers, and they did not win, but they still believe election reform is a top priority.

To me, it is more than a bit of a mixed message. Which was a big criticism of his campaign if you recall. If you believe Kerry and they lost, then why would you believe that election reform is a big issue?

[emulatorloo]

63. "Bush and Blackwell Cheated, and its all Kerry's Fault!"

Why do we need election reform?

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/G04/EC-Kerry-20050105.phtml
http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0501/07/A09-52954.htm
http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/printer_011105W.shtml

[yebrent]

66. of course not.

But Kerry has never said that "Bush and Blackwell Cheated". He claims it was Osama's video that sealed his loss. If that is true, then where is the urgency for election reform?

[emulatorloo]

72. More than one factor contributed to Bush's "victory"

However for Kerry or DNC to accuse Bush and Blackwell of cheating requires hard proof and evidence. Apparently there are still moves afoot to investigate.

[Totally Committed]

59. If it were Clark threads, no one would be wondering why...

they'd be saying we "freeped" or whatever.

I'm not going ot go on, because this is not a Clark thread and I am sensitive to the "hijack" comments that could be hurled at any moment. You all go back to discussing amongst yourselves, but thhink about it and be fair next time to the CLarkies who are as passionate about their candidate as the Kerry-ites are about theirs.

Thanks.

TC

[bvar22]

61. If John Kerry is making news, he belongs on the..

..Greatest page. If his supporters are perverting the "Greatest Page" for their own selfish purposes they are guilty of perverting DU for their own selfish interests. The same goes for Wesley Clark or any of the potential candidates. If there is already friction over the 08 Dem primaries, then DU is in for a long rough ride.

I ask ALL members of DU to have some consideration in this area.

Now I'm off to start some Kucinich threads and PM my friends to nominate them for Greatest.

[Totally Committed]

62. I agree...

by that same, exact token, then, so does Wes.

I just want people to be real and fair about it. That's all.

If Kerry is making news, then his supporters should be crowing and they are.

We Clarkies would also like to reserve that right.

TC

[yebrent]

67. Sorry Wes Clark got dragged into this.

This thread has nothing to do with my support for Wes Clark, Howard Dean, Barbara Boxer and Barbara Lee (my wonderful house rep), and others fighting the Republicans. And despite my ill conceived title to the thread, it has little to do with the good work Kerry is doing now.

Mainly the purpose of the thread was for a better understanding of what happened prior to and on election day with the Kerry campaign in respects to the blatant issues in Ohio and Florida. And how someone who thinks he lost fair and square, and thus marginalized the election reform movement, could be an effective voice for election reform.

[MoonRiver]

81. Yes, indeed. What goes round comes round.

[saltpoint]

64. I will reiterate my insistence that more attention be paid --

-- to Howell Heflin.

Why do you people ignore him?

My neighbor LOVED Howell Heflin, may he rest in peace.

Democratic Senator from Alabama. Now when's the last time Alabmama had a DEMOCRATIC senator, huh! Richard SHELBY! That's who. And he went bellyup and joined the Republicans.

My neighbor is right and you people just coldshoulder Howell Heflin as if he never existed.

I repeat: Where is the outrage!?!

[saltpoint]

65. Senator Kerry's long-standing and excellent record of --

-- public service continues this week with new legislative initiatives, across-the-aisle compromises, and condemnations of U.N. ambassador nominee John Bolton.

When you are doing that caliber of public service you deserve some praise.

Some are a bit stingy with that praise when it comes to this particular public servant.

From Yeats:

"In the prison of his days / teach the free man how to praise."

Credit where it is due.

[dhinojosa]

68. In that case I will recommend this page....

as yet another Kerry page. :)

[MoonRiver]

69. Others can do what they want. I won't vote for him again in a primary.

He's proven to be ineffectual as a presidential candidate. We can't afford to pick any more known losers, especially those who refuse to fight.

[emulatorloo]

78. Dunno, he's fighting repuglicans now, and not doing a bad job of it

I am glad to see any Dem do that, and basically that is all that matters to me right now.

[MoonRiver]

80. Works for me. I just don't want him running for president again.

I think he makes a good Senator though.

[emulatorloo]

86. I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it

Although he might make a pretty damn good "I told you so" candidate ;-)

Personally I'm waiting to see what choices we get for 2008 before I make up my mind.

:toast:

[MoonRiver]

87. Well if Clark and Feingold are candidates, my mind is made up.

I'd vote for Kerry over Lieberman but that's about it.

[Crunchy Frog]

73. Damn those Clarkies for taking over DU!

:grr:

[MoonRiver]

123. First DU, next the world!

We're a power crazed bunch! ;)

[JI7]

82. they may be "Kerry threads" but they are not all exactly pro Kerry

[MoonRiver]

83. This is the only one that isn't as far as I can tell.

[Dr Fate]

84. Kerry has been doing well latey, but...

All DEMS could speak a little plainer and be a little more agressive, in my opinion.

I'd also like to see the top, house-hold name DEMs go on TV and be more blunt & truthful comes to exposing Bush/media lies.

[kerrygoddess]

91. I nominate Dr Fate as our Press Secretary!

We need you out there pushing for our people to be on TV! You got spunk!

[Dr Fate]

105. I only state the obvious.

But thanx for the props. :)

[Lone Pawn]

98. He's been a hell of a fighter since.

If we had a Senate of 55 Kerries, we'd be unstoppable.

[kerrygoddess]

101. Touche!

Yes we would be!

[sandnsea]

103. damn skippy

I just wish people would start finding the Kerrys or Boxers or Deans or Clarks in their own states and get them ready to run for the Senate instead of beating the hell out of the Dems we have left.

[Vektor]

107. Only eight?

That's not nearly enough. A man of his astounding caliber needs more.

Maybe I'll start a squeeing photo thread, topped by his wet pool picture.

*unf*

[Califooyah Operative]

109. haha. that's awesome. nt

[Vektor]

110. Thanks!

I think I have some windsurfing pics too. Those really piss off the "Windsurfing? What! He can't have fun! He is a sell-out! Waaaah! I need him to change my shitty diaper for me!" crowd.

:puke:

[MoonRiver]

111. Lol! I never cared one way or the other about those pictures, fyi.

The fact is the election was probably stolen from him (although it was way too close for somebody running against the worst pResident in American history), and he uttered not a peep in protest. That's IT for me. Certainly everybody here can promote and vote for whomever they want, but this level of hype supporting somebody who just lost is pretty silly, imcpo.

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MoonRiver]

113. I'm SELFISH for having an opinion that doesn't agree with yours?

Neither Clark or Dean lost in a national election to the worst pResident ever. Kerry has been tested and he failed.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yebrent]

115. They are different elections.

It is one thing to be the most popular Democrat among Democrats. It is quite another thing to be the most popular candidate in a general election. Within Clark's campaign it was assumed that winning the Democratic primary would be more difficult than winning the general election (not that it would have been easy). It is just that in the primaries, they needed to overcome the strong knee-jerk reaction from liberals against a former military person as a candidate.

[MoonRiver]

116. After Kerry won the nomination I was one of his most ardent supporters.

I changed my avatar from a Clark one to a Kerry one. I manned phone banks, and held an election party for him. I maxed out on contributions to help him win. I then lost faith after he broke his promise to Democrats that he was going to fight like hell for us if the Pukes cheated. Let's see, fool me once....

So just get over the pathetic stance that I'm "bitter" about "my guy" not winning. In the final analysis "my guy" was Kerry. :eyes:

[Vektor]

117. I'm just amazed

at how overreactive so many are. Differing opinions = good.
Outright raging psychosis = maybe not so good.

:-)

[LittleClarkie]

119. Depends on whose numbers you're using

Truthisall estimates about 7 to 8 million.

Karen Hughes had it as an electoral landslide before the battleground states just sorta flipped.

And I'm getting the feeling that ANY level of "hype" is unacceptable to some people. By the way, it's support, not hype. Hype is fluffy threads not attached to any news item. Mostly these are attached to something substancial.

We're not doing anything differently from your average Deaniac, Clarkie, or what have you. Our dude just happens to be a busy boy. Perhaps if you close your eyes and pretend it's a politician you like you'll see that this politician is doing alot of good things right now.

[MoonRiver]

129. I am pleased he's doing things.

I just don't want him to run for pres. again. These are two different things. Kerry is an excellent Senator but sucks as a presidential candidate.

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MoonRiver]

126. self-delete

wrong thread :blush:

[JNelson6563]

128. Lesson learned

You can't win an election with the "I hate the other guy" advantage.

Every single day at Dem HQ I heard "I'm an independent that usually votes Republican but I hate Bush!" They'd take some swag and give us a few bucks and off they'd go.

I never heard love for Kerry.

Julie