New Pope, Fascist at heart?

[Robin Hood]

Today's ushering in of the new Pope Benedict, will also be likely to usher in a Catholic dark age. This Pope spent his most formative years being shaped by Nazi Germany. From a Hitler youth, to a Nazi officer, and now the controversiall conservative German Pope.

I wonder if all of the decrees that Pope John Paul has made over the last ten or more years, was actually formed and uttered into John Pauls ears by Ratzinger himself. After all, The news is reporting that he had John Pauls ear for everything dealing with church policy and church direction.

I can't help but feel that Ratzinger may have taken advantage of a kind old man, in order to further his personal and political agenda. With the election of George Bush and now this.. We could be building a perfect storm. Doomed to repeat the mistakes of history.

Have we become old Europe?

[YusefHawkins]

1. The Panzer Pope has arrived. (nt)

[Robin Hood]

2. (Nervous,LOL)..

And they say it so effortlessly about him. It sends shivers down my spine.

[billbuckhead]

3. Nazi Germany sure has cast a long shadow

I think this is a public relations nightmare around the world for the Vatican.

[Robin Hood]

5. No kidding.

What were they thinking? Do you think that inside these vatican votes, they strong arm each other for votes just like they do in our house and senate. I think that Ratzinger strong armed his way into become Pope.

[YusefHawkins]

8. I think they used Diebold machines (nt)

[GainesT1958]

4. Yeah..well, that "storm" is going to IMPLODE on itself..

Within a few years...here AND there!

B-)

[Robin Hood]

6. I hope that you are right.

nt

[toddaa]

7. Two points of contention

Being in the Hitler Youth was compulsory for children his age and he was never a Nazi officer. In fact, there is absolutely no proof whatsoever that he was a Nazi. Unless, of course, you want to claim that all Germans serving in the Wehrmacht during WWII were Nazis. If that's you're claim, you might try a remedial course in 20th century history at your local community college.

[Robin Hood]

9. I didn't blame him for joining the Hitler youth.

I did say that he was shaped by it. You are right about him not being an officer, This is what he did for Nazi Germany.

"Traunstein was also where Ratzinger went through the harrowing years of Nazi rule and World War II. In 1943, he was drafted as an assistant to a Nazi anti-aircraft unit and sent to Munich. A year later he was released, only to be sent to the Austrian-Hungarian border to construct tank barriers.

He deserted the Germany army in May 1945 and returned to Traunstein _ a risky move, since deserters were shot on the spot if caught, or publicly hanged as examples to others."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7517784

[Colorado Blue]

10. Well, I am not thrilled about this, being Jewish and all. But,

on a personal note, my father-in-law served with the Luftwaffe as a pilot during WWII. I know him well. He and his wife aren't Nazis at all.

They say, they didn't really have a choice, it was a totalitarian society and you did whatever.

They're good people and also Democrats and I love them.

BUT - they are still part of that world, they carry it with them. I don't see how Ratzinger can escape having been influenced, very strongly, by the ideas of that time.

AAAAAACCCKKKKKKKKKKKK.

At least he is OLD:)

[Robin Hood]

11. His up-bringinging coupled with his staunch conservatism.

It is un-nerving. I wonder if his conservatism can be separated from his youth?

Nice story about your father in-law.

[Colorado Blue]

12. I think it is un-nerving too. I don't know if his conservatism

has anything to do with his ethnicity, so forth, or if it is typical of Catholic clerics of that age?

One can hope that this is sort of a rear-guard, that last of a breed? I can't imagine the church flourishing in the future if they keep these archaic attitudes. Women, for one thing, simply aren't living in the same world as we did even a generation ago.

Populations have exploded too, so the idea of woman-as-vessel just isn't flying as well as it used to.

I am sort of worried by his attitude, well, time to go convert all the Jews again. And gay people can't be happy either.

Oy.

[Robin Hood]

13. It does not matter to Ratzinger if the church flourishes.

He's been quoted to say that the church must never waiver from strict morality, even if it means losing members.

[Colorado Blue]

14. Then, I think, he is going to be an unpopular Pope. nt

[Robin Hood]

16. I think so as well.

He will do a great dis-service to the vatican and Catholosism.

[Colorado Blue]

17. Not to mention, people of good will everywhere, who are

trying to reach out past the barriers of religion and religious prejudice, and also take care of the planet.

I'm beginning to get really worried.

Take care!

[Mondon]

15. Not according to Rabbi Hier, apparently

STATEMENT BY SIMON WIESENTHAL CENTER ON ELECTION OF CARDINAL RATZINGER TO POPE BENEDICT XVI

The Simon Wiesenthal Center congratulates Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger on becoming Pope Benedict XVI.

"I hope that he will continue to build on the legacy of Pope John Paul II’s special relationship with the Jewish people," said Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder and dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center. "The new Pope, like his predecessor, was deeply influenced by the events of WWII," he said. "As a child, Pope Benedict XVI grew up in an anti-Nazi family. Nonetheless he was forced to join the Hitler Youth movement during the Second World War."

Rabbi Hier continued, "Pope John Paul II dramatically changed the Catholic Church forever in reaching out to other religions, particularly Judaism. I am confident that the Vatican under the leadership of Pope Benedict XVI will continue to build on those remarkable achievements and organizations like the Simon Wiesenthal Center look forward to being partners in that process."

The Wiesenthal Center had two private audiences with the late John Paul II in 1983 and 2003.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center is one of the largest international Jewish human rights organizations with over 400,000 member families in the United States. It is an NGO at international agencies including the United Nations, UNESCO, the OSCE, and the Council of Europe.

For more information, please contact the Center's Public Relations Department, 310-553-9036, or visit www.wiesenthal.com.

http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/content.asp?c=fwLYKnN8LzH&b=253162&ct=716941

[Colorado Blue]

18. Listen, what exactly are we supposed to do? Let's see,

there are how many billion increasingly militant and aggressive Christians on this planet, and 13 million Jews?

We're supposed to call the Vatican and say, hey, we disapprove of the new Pope, you should make an adjustment or we will invade Rome?

Right.

When you are an extremely tiny minority, you develop diplomatic skills. Otherwise, kersplat.

Which keeps happening anyway.

Give us a break already.

[Robin Hood]

20. That's what I thought as well.

That letter was a very diplomatic olive branch with the hope that the new Pope will start off with tolerance. We will see.

[Sooner75]

19. Do the math

Apparently, this new pope just turned 78. Which means that he turned 18 a few weeks before VE Day (the end of WWII in Europe). It also means that he was 12 when Germany invaded Poland, the event that started WWII (September 1, 1939, I believe).

Apparently, he was in the Hitler Youth, but I imagine that it may have been expected by the Powers That Be. He also got drafted into the army. Also, not surprising. I believe that he deserted the German Army. (Not at all like Kurt Waldheim in my view.)

On another note, it's interesting that many Catholics and especially quite a number of German Catholics are NOT pleased about his elevation to pope. Seems they wanted a progressive pope and instead got more of the doctrine that they've been opposed to. As a cardinal, he was JP2's right hand man and pretty much in step with his views. No real change likely. That's the rub.

However, as a non-Catholic, the whole thing is rather like watching the doings of the British royal family. Interesting to watch, but I'm glad to be just an observer.