60 minutes last night

[raccoon]

Anybody else catch "60 Minutes" last night (Wednesday)?

The first segment was about illegal immigrants, from Mexico and Central America.

What interested me was, they showed an American man (if they identified him I missed it--maybe somebody can help me out here) saying that in Beverly Hills and someplace else in Southern CA, ten years ago janitors could make $10 an hour. The employers busted the unions and hired Mexicans to do the same work for $5 an hour--that's what they're making today. He said plenty of Americans would do the job for $11 an hour.

I think that Americans WILL do the work these employers are hiring Mexicans and other immigrants for, just not for such a low wage.

[trotsky]

1. It should be obvious to everyone...

why *'s base doesn't want any serious immigration restrictions, and why there hasn't been any action taken on that front in the last 4+ years.

[PA Democrat]

2. The same thing has happened with construction jobs

in Texas, and now many other parts of the country. Contractors use subcontractors who hire illegal aliens. The contractors claim ignorance about the origins of their workforce, and turn a nice profit by paying less in wages and no benefits.

[tinanator]

6. construction and ag in California

two biggest sources of employment, almost COMPLETELY hispanic. Not just almost entirely non-white (hang on!) but ENTIRELY non-black.
That word is being used correctly, ENTIRELY non-black. Personally, I feel a little funny dealing with electricians who can't speak english... not that they cant do a fine job, but it tells the story, dont it? And this in the age of inconceivable profit margins during this massive increase in housing prices. This should be the basis of the real revolution, we are betrayed, sold out by our politicians for the benefit of a very few. A little bankruptcy reform to rub into our wounds because evil and greed know no bounds.

[PA Democrat]

9. I read an article from a Texas newspaper which described how this trend

is straining the local health care system as well. Illegal aliens who are injured on the job are taken to local hospitals for emergency medical care. Most of these workers have no insurance and no money, and the costs are being passed on to the rest of us. Once again it is the average citizen subsidizing the profits of the rich.

[htuttle]

20. That also happens with Wal Mart employees,

...'fast food' employees, and all of the other millions of wage slaves in the US, both citizens and non-citizens.

Most of them have no insurance and no money, and have to go to the emergency room and can't afford to pay the bill.

The only difference is that the citizens in this situation have a chance of getting a few hundred dollars back as a tax refund each year.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

15. Most construction jobs are union in Mass.

The problem in Texas and other states was the breaking up of the unions.

[tsuki]

17. More than "nice." It's happening here also. I wish we could

bust the developer/contractors and seize their assets. It is a crime against everyone. But the 'big boys' get a pass under Bushco, Part Deux.

Hey, but gays still can't get married, so it's all bad.

:sarcasm:

[htuttle]

3. Five Bucks an Hour is less than the CA minimum wage

Is illegal to pay someone that little for non-farm, hourly jobs (other than waiters and waitresses). That probably means they are getting paid cash under the table, too.

I bet they could find some Americans to work for that little -- but what difference would that make? It's not enough to live on, it's so little it skews all the other wages lower, and it's still illegal on a number of counts.

So why isn't Ahnold going after the employers with illegal labor practices? I worked for a company once that got in hot water with the WI Dept of Labor over an overtime issue (that arguably had some grey areas due to the specifics of the case). The DoL people were relentless in making sure every past and present employee got every dime the DoL ruled that they were owed (along with the state getting the payroll taxes on those dimes).

Don't they do this in California?

[fasttense]

8. Five bucks an hour

isn't too bad if you don't lose taxes from it and are trying to save money for college. Not to mention you have no medical expenses and only have to pay in-state tuition.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

16. Not in Massachusetts, or the Northeast

you couldn't afford to rent an apartment, or live on campus.

[tinanator]

26. not here either

rent is as high or higher than house payments, and houses have pretty much doubled in cost over a couple of years, literally. So apparently there are people housing dozens of migrant workers, and one drug dealer was just busted with 80 people on his property.

http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/10326447p-11132917c.html

[bushisanidiot]

4. The cheap labor repukes are giving slave wage jobs to illegal immigrants

that's why they keep coming over the border.. that's why repukes are fighting AGAINST THEIR RACIST BASE to limit border patrol..

stop the illegal hiring of illegal immigrants and they'll stop coming over the border. Wal-Mart, etc. needs to be held accountable for the destruction of the american workforce.

[fasttense]

10. The wages are really not that bad when you consider

the illegal doesn't lose taxes or FICA from it, gets free medical and in-state tuition.

[bushisanidiot]

12. Oh, I see. So could you support a family on $5/hour as long as you

get free tuition?

that's a load of crap..

the cheap labor repukes care only about the profit margin. they arent' far away from reinstating slavery.. and AWOL Bush's admin. won't do a damned thing to stop them.

the repukes take advantage of the poor and desperate. It's how they get rich.. and it's how they'll all go to hell.

[fasttense]

30. I agree the repukes make millions off the backs

of the poor but here in Appalacia, $5.00/hr though not the best could help a kid saving for college. In order for my kids to attend a half decent HS and not go to the local county school (which is rated a "D" on an A/B scale by TN) I have to pay tuition. The illegals here can't even be asked where they live when they register. So they go to the best HS wihtout paying, no matter where they live.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

18. Most of these people aren't going to school

they're supporting families or sending money home to their families in their countries of origin. Most immigrants still pay payroll taxes and pay into Social Security.

[raccoon]

21. That's what I've observed too, and

also the majority of them know just a few phrases of English.

It's nowhere near good enough for them to go to school where classes are taught in English.

[fasttense]

31. Are you talking illegals or immigrants?

Legal immigrants are one thing. Illegals are another. My daughter is good friends with some illegals and they don't pay payroll taxes because they don't got a SS# or a real ID. They may pay local taxes through their rent and purchases but they aren't losing any to income or FICA taxes.

[mopinko]

19. NNNOOO- they do pay taxes

usually they have a phony ss number, get taxes withheld, but are then cannot file for the refund they should be owed. they also do not get the ss benefits in the end. so they pay EXTRA taxes. and, of course, pay sales taxes.
you also don't have to worry too much about any other labor laws when people don't have access to any kind of law enforcement.
they don't get FREE medical care. they don't get any medical care, unless they are so sick they get taken to the emergency room.

have a nice stay at du. think of something pithy to put on your tombstone.

[fasttense]

32. I'm sorry but even with fake IDs they don't pay

payroll taxes cause the people hiring them aren't dumb enough to match illegals SS, workman's comp, unemployment etc.. I've heard the people who hire them talking. Do you really believe when these companies knowingly hire illegals they are going to assume the burden of matching tax dollars?

[Debs]

35. I don't know where you are from

In California this was an issue year in and year out. Several times the State did studies where they found that illegal aliens put more money INTO the state than they took out in services because they DID pay taxes out of their checks and weren't eligible for the benefits that they were for. I must have seen the same study updated half a dozen times.

[Wright Patman]

5. United States citizenship

is rapidly diminishing in its value.

What has been going on for the last generation is the "harmonization" of the three NAFTA countries and will be followed by an extension further southward (CAFTA and FTAA). An "American Union" is envisioned along the lines of the EU.

"American" citizenship in the future will mean you were born somewhere in the Western Hemisphere.

The elites do not care that the people are overwhelmingly opposed. The elections are all rigged. The choice now is "revolt or die" (economically, if not physically).

No more middle class--anywhere in this hemisphere. People will rage against what is happening, but the economic and security forces (think Patriot Act and Homeland Security Act) arrayed against them will roll over and crush them.

[fasttense]

7. I saw it but had to change it when

they had that politician on saying they wouldn't have an agriculture business if it weren't for illegals.

I have no problem with legal immigrants but the illegals steal our jobs and bring wages down. Since they don't pay income tax they can work for 25% less right off the bat and still be at the same economic level as most Americans. And when they get sick they go to the emergency room for free and they pay in-state tuition.

If the US would fine all business who hire illegals $100,000 for every illegal they hire, I bet we wouldn't have so many. But, no then brush's regime couldn't get cheap labor and make millions off the backs of the illegals, while we Americans can't find jobs.

My son applied at a hotel to clean rooms for a summer job. They told him they didn't need anyone. Yet, while he waited for me to pick him up, he overheard them hiring the Spanish speaking man behind him. Yeah, we Americans don't want those jobs anyway.

[htuttle]

11. It's illegal for an employer to not withhold payroll taxes

If an employer is paying somebody less than minimum wage under the table, they are breaking the law, and it has the SAME EFFECT on the labor market whether the employee is a citizen or not.

The construction industry is FULL of under the table workers -- both citizens and non citizens. I can't remember the last time I heard of a drywaller getting paid on the up and up, for example.

The effort to blame undocumented immigrants for the practices of crooked employers is a diversion. If they sent all the immigrants back, these same employers would just hire desparate Americans under the table for the same wages. And it would have the same effect on the labor market. Five dollars cash an hour is almost the same take home pay as $7-$8 with taxes withheld. If someone is hungry enough, they'll take a job like that, citizen or not.

The problem is the employers. And the enforcement officers who obviously aren't doing their jobs.

[PA Democrat]

13. Agree

Many employers conveniently claim ignorance by using subcontractors who do the actual hiring of the illegals. Remember WalMart used this defense when it was discovered that they had illegal aliens cleaning their stores.

We need to go after those hiring illegal aliens and those using subcontractors who hire them.

[htuttle]

14. They need to go after any employer not following legal labor practices

Paying in cash under the table, paying less than minimum wage, or not paying overtime as required by law.

Whether they are hiring illegal immigrants or citizens, it's illegal either way, and hurts the rest of the labor market either way.

[wakeme2008]

24. But they are not paying them under the table.

I would bet the bigger boys have the workers sign an Independent Consultant form and then pay them $5 per hour and would say, it's up to them to file taxes... Ya Right...

[RUMPLEMINTZ]

25. It's not illegal to pay cash and you don't have to withhold

taxes if the employee works less than 600 hours a year. They are considered "independent contracters." I have 3 employees I pay with cash. One cleans the bar 6 nights a week, it only takes him an hour. Second guy cleans the bar on Sundays, takes him 4 hours. Gotta really scrub the place at least once a month. The third bartends every Saturday. All these work less than 600 hours.

[htuttle]

27. Do you pay them at least minimum wage?

If they are considered to be 'independent contractors', I'm not sure what the law would say about it. Would it be illegal for you to pay them less than minimum wage where you are?

Even if it's legal, DO you pay them less than minimum wage?

on edit:

Actually, if they are independent contractors, you aren't their employer anyway. You're their customer.

[paula777]

29. I could not agree with you more ...

We would still have agriculture as a business - we would just have to pay people a living wage.

[Lochloosa]

22. His name was Terry Anderson

Terry Anderson is an auto mechanic from South Central Los Angeles who found his true calling as the host of a one-issue talk show

[raccoon]

23. Yeah, I remember him, the guy on the radio

This was another man.

[paula777]

28. Illegal immigration / slave labor will end up killing california

It's unsustainable .... in so many ways. We can't even talk about it here though (Southern California), because they yell 'racist' if we even bring up the subject of illegal immigration.

[bushisanidiot]

33. In my opinion, it's racism when the pussy minute "men" with their

glocks they like to play pretend with, go after all brown skinned people near the border.

to get mad at illegal immigrants is childish and moronic.

the best way to curb illegal immigration is to crack down on those who employ them at slave wages. the cheap labor repukes are nothing but slave traders, and AWOL Bush is the house master.

it's basic supply and demand logic. if the demand for slave labor is eliminated (as legally, it SHOULD be) then the supply of illegal immigrants will automatically be reduced.

enforce the laws on the cheap labor repuke corporations. throw them in jail for hiring illegal immigrants.. not just a slap on their pasty white wrists.. THROW THE PUSSIES IN JAIL!

[paula777]

34. I could not agree with you more ...

but don't come to California and say what you just said. You would be labeled a racist. It's ridiculous