Is Chuck Hagel a moderate?

[Dave Sund]

I've had a fair amount of respect for what Chuck Hagel said in the runup to the Iraq War. I felt it took a lot of courage for him to stand up to Bush's war, even if he did eventually vote for it. (On the flipside, after all, Lincoln Chafee said virtually nothing, and Tom Daschle sold out half the Democrats to make sure the IWR passed).

But over the past couple of years, well, Hagel's rhetoric hasn't matched his record. Like John McCain, he talks a good game, but usually falls in line with whatever the Republicans want. He's been out there front and center on privatization. It occurs to me, now, that Hagel's been pretty shrewd about shoring up support for a presidential run in 2008.

He raised his profile considerably in 2002, after being the only Republican to publically challenge Bush on the war. But he voted for it, because a vote against would have killed his chances to move up in the party. Now, he's the second ranking Republican on the Foreign Relations committee. He's coming out for privatization, which could hurt him politically, but will definitely help him with the Republican base.

I think we have to be very afraid of Chuck Hagel's potential to gain the Republican nomination in 2008. Republicans don't like John McCain. Hagel's an unknown, and potentially dangerous, candidate to most of the country. In one sense, he doesn't have the Bushco support, which Frist almost assuredly does. But on the other hand, he has a moderate image which could appeal to people across the aisle in a general election. He's the one candidate on the GOP side that scares me, because I think he could actually get the nomination and win.

[saltpoint]

1. You make some very good points.

I think he's more moderate than Dick Cheney, and much more intelligent than Dubya.

I think you're right to say he could be a problem for us next time.

[elfin]

2. I sure hope so because I think

he is going to win the presidency in '08, if he gets the nomination. I wish I felt a dem can win, but am very discouraged right now.

[kansasblue]

3. good background reading

on Hagel at blackboxvoting.org See the free online book.

[Eloriel]

7. Yes. Do NOT overlook his ties to ES&S Voting machine company

including how he won his first election, and the one after that (I think he's only been thru 2 elections).

IMO, this is almost all you need to know about Hagel.

And yes, he has 2008 aspirations.

[Dave Sund]

8. 1996 vs. Nelson I can see...

That was pretty close.

But there's no way you're going to sell me on how he "cheated" in 2002. The guy got about 80%, against an incredibly bad Democratic candidate. Shit, I'd have voted for him in 2002, except I wasn't 18 yet.

[me b zola]

29. I've always thought they would put up a "closet con" 2008

Well, at least since the beginning of the 2nd * term. They very well planned on going well over the top with their policies, rhetoric, and thug behavior. Of course, planning on inflaming some gop-bots in the process, a "good moderate" will pull the sheep back into the fold thinking that this "moderate" will restore sanity to the Nation & their beloved gop.

But of course, I believe that Hagel is a wolf in sheeps clothing. I think it has been his role to "play" a moderate since he elected himself and other cons using ES&S.

[Dave Sund]

31. Agreed

Hagel definitely is worrisome because of all the reasons stated in this thread. We better hope he doesn't win the nomination. Unfortunately, I think it's looking very likely.

McCain is despised by many Republicans. Giuliani will never pass the morality test. And any governor that gets in the race is going to have a severe disadvantage in name recognition.

But I think one thing works in our favor: The Republicans rarely have an open presidential primary. The power structure gets behind one guy and steamrolls the rest. By the end of 2007, I'd say it should be pretty clear who the nominee is.

Look at the past nominees of the GOP:

Bush, Dole, Bush, Reagan, Ford, Nixon, Goldwater, Nixon, Eisenhower, Dewey. Every single one of them a well-connected and powerful Republican.

So, unless they buck that trend, you have to figure that the guy who has Bush's support will be the guy who wins it. And, seeing as how Frist was Bushco's handpicked Majority Leader, I'd say Frist has got the inside track for *'s favor.

[Dave Sund]

4. The Freepers HATE him

Says he "votes conservative and talks liberal." Say that makes him "untrustworthy." While I'd tend to agree, for different reasons, obviously, I also think that makes him "electable." One poor misguided soul thinks that he doesn't have much support in Nebraska. This is a guy who won with more than 80% of the vote in 2002. Yup.

[ClassWarrior]

5. A moderate criminal is still a criminal.

Like being "kinda pregnant."

NGU.

[Dave Sund]

6. This is what makes him dangerous, though

His moderate image makes him more palatable to the American public, and if he can get through the primaries, he's going to be a very tough candidate to beat.

[ClassWarrior]

9. No argument here.

NGU.

[lala_rawraw]

10. No, but

Perhaps the fear of all this "election fraud" talk has made him a little more aware of blogs from the left and so he is paying lip service.

[Dave Sund]

11. I'd say it's more likely

That running against Ben Nelson, he had to be sure to talk like a moderate, or he would have gotten creamed by an incredibly popular governor. Nebraskans like moderates in the Senate, not reactionaries. He's continued this because it's allowed him a lot of exposure in the media. I don't think Hagel's talking like this to quiet the blogs. I doubt he cares what the blogs think. I think he talks like a moderate to further his political career.

[AlinPA]

12. "..he talks a good game, but usually falls in line with whatever

the Republicans want". I can't recall him voting against anything the repigs were pushing.

[Dr Ron]

13. No, but not a Bush-style Republicans

Even very conservative people look moderate next to the current administration.

Similarly, I do not see McCain as a moderate, but as a conservative. He's another who just looks moderate when compared to Bush and Cheney.

Hagel's a conservative, but I'd much rather have him President than Bush, Cheney, Frist, DeLay, etc.

[ClassWarrior]

14. That's like saying I'd rather drink pure poison...

...than hammer a steel spike through my own skull. <LOL>

NGU.

[shance]

15. Chuck Hagel has a rather large credibility issue.

due to his connections to ES&S, Elections Systems and Software, the largest voting company owned by Republican interests. It's been mentioned a number of times here at DU.


Here is information about Senator Chuck Hagel's connection with the company.

http://liberty.hypermart.net/Newsletter/3/4_The_2004_El...

<< This wasn’t the first Republican victory involving “Election Systems & Software” (ES&S). Former right wing radio talk-show host and CEO of ES&S, Chuck Hagel, decided he would run for the U.S. Senate in Nebraska with his own ES&S machines counting the votes. Hagel failed to mention that he had been both CEO and Chairman of ES&S on his disclosure documents, or that he was an owner in the company that installed, programmed, and operated the voting machines used by most of the citizens of Nebraska. In 1996, Republican Hagel won the race in Democratic Nebraska for the U.S. Senate easily carrying both the primary and general elections. According to Bev Harris of blackboxvoting.com, Hagel scored lopsided victories in almost every demographic group, including Black communities that had never voted for a Republican. With the widest margin of victory in state history Hagel became the first Republican in 24 years to win a Senate seat in Nebraska. On November 5, 2002 Hagel ran against Democrat Charlie Matulka and was re-elected to his second term in the United States Senate by an unreal 83% of the vote. Again, the votes were counted by computer-controlled voting machines built programmed and installed by Hagel’s company Election Systems & Software. "

More information on ES&S conservative ties and connections:

From ecotalk.org

Ownership: The World Companies (a wholly owned subsidiary of the Omaha World-Herald Company), The McCarthy Group (an Omaha investment banking company - whose primary investor is World Investments, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Omaha World-Herald Co.), Business Records Corp. (BRC), and American Information Systems (AIS) employees.

[Dave Sund]

18. Uh, small problem with that article

"In 1996, Republican Hagel won the race in Democratic Nebraska for the U.S. Senate easily carrying both the primary and general elections."

I think you can figure that one out.

The rest of it?

Why is it so hard to believe that a Republican incumbent with a huge voice in foreign policy over the four months preceding the election won 83% of the vote against a terrible Democratic candidate?

1996, fine. I can totally believe the credibility issue with that. But anyone who claims Hagel stole the election in 2002 is incredibly blind.

[shance]

21. Uh, what would that be?

Are you saying it's okay to potentially steal an election in 1996 but not 2002?

No one can remotely deny the glaring problem and fact here with Chuck Hagel literally OWNING the electronic voting machines that were BEING USED for his OWN election!!

Hellew???

[Dave Sund]

22. Oh, I don't deny it

It's a definite conflict of interest. I'm just saying, that 1996 serves your argument far better than 2002.

[shance]

23. What's the difference Dave?

Theft is theft.

It doesnt matter if its 1996 or 2002, or both.

[Dave Sund]

24. I know

I'm just saying, if you're trying to convince someone who needs convincing, they're going to look at 2002 and think you're nuts. They look at 1996, they might listen to you, especially considering that Nelson was enjoying extraordinarily high approval ratings. I think, yeah, he might have got in there through some trickery.

By 2002, though, the guy he beat was already in office, and there wasn't a legit Dem to run against him. He didn't need to steal it.

The other problem I was pointing out was a major blunder in the article: the claim that the Republican Hagel won in Democratic Nebraska. I would definitely inform the webmaster of that error.

Any idea on where his machines are? I know they are in Iowa and Nebraska, which would probably go to him in a general anyway just because of proximity.

[shance]

26. ES&S machines are all over the place. Its the largest voting machine comp

Until electronic voting is safe and essentially fraud proof, these machines need to be out of commission, impounded and/or decertified until they are safe to use.

We cannot afford in any way another fraudulent election. Literally.

[peacetalksforall]

16. I don't care if he is mouse or an elephant - he is a thief - he is

a co-conspirator and profiteer in the theft of our vote - our most precious possession. He is a dangerous phoney.

Don't you think it is absolutely weird that a person whose company designs vothing theft machines may run for President. We know what O'Donnell did for Bush, but here we have a man doing Hagel for Hagel.

[msongs]

17. he is a R E P U B L I C A N and votes like one, Why do you expect...

a duck to act like a cheetah?

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Dave Sund]

19. I think a few of you are misunderstanding me

I totally agree with you on this. He's a Republican. But he's also the second-best candidate the Republicans can field. I'm not posting this to defend Hagel. I'm posting this to explain why Hagel's so dangerous. He acts like a moderate, but he is a party-line Republican all the way. The danger is that he's got appeal. He can win a national election. The question in this topic isn't meant to defend Hagel at all... I think if you read my original post, you'd see that. My point was: Hagel's the one guy who the Republicans could nominate who might actually win.

[ClassWarrior]

30. Spell that word with a C O N, pardner.

<LOL>

NGU.

[googly]

20. Who gives a damn...he is a repuglican! eom

[paulk]

25. he's an old school Conservative

which looks like a moderate when put up against the neocons.

So... no, he's not a moderate. He's very much a social conservative, unlike some of the true NE Republican moderates.

It's hard to tell sometimes if he does things out of principle or for political gain. He's made harsher criticisms of Bush's foreign policy than some Democrats. Is it for real? He's a Vietnam vet who seems to have specialized in foreign policy since becoming Senator. I think some of his contempt for Bush is real - the rest is politicking - with the aim of taking back the Republican party from the Bush crowd.

I agree, he would make a formidable Presidential candidate with a lot of appeal to the center.

[kodi]

27. yes, but in the same way george wallace was a moderate compared to hitler

he will be the toughest republican to beat.

[jaysunb]

28. No

he's more like an opportunist.....

[DeaconBlues]

32. He talks a good talk, but his record speaks for itself

*Rated 36% by the NEA, indicating a mixed record on public education. (Dec 2003)

*Rated 0% by the LCV, indicating anti-environment votes. (Dec 2003)

*Rated 100% by the Christian Coalition: a pro-family voting record. (Dec 2003)

*Rated 92% by CATO, indicating a pro-free trade voting record. (Dec 2002)

*Rated A by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun rights voting record. (Dec 2003)

*Rated 12% by APHA, indicating a anti-public health voting record. (Dec 2003)

*Rated 8% by the AFL-CIO, indicating an anti-labor voting record. (Dec 2003)

*Rated 22% by the ARA, indicating an anti-senior voting record. (Dec 2003)